Tiki Chess Contest

I checked with Hanford Lemoore, and he said this would be an interesting post.

I dug around the forums looking for a large tiki-style chess set. I own http://www.MegaChess.com and would like to add such a line to our offerings. So I had an idea.

We are hereby posting a design contest. $200 for first prize, $100 for second, $50 for third.

I'm thinking Tiki poles where the king is about 4-feet tall. We have design guidelines for artisans at http://www.megachess.com/spec48.htm, though I expect significant changes to keep to what makes tikis special. Use the design guidelines just to understand what makes each piece unique, and then map that to tikis, or your style of tikis.

Simple is better than intricate. A strong statement with a few cuts is better than lots of details that don't weather well anyway. Also consider the cost of production. The design has to be affordable (remember: a chess set has 32 tikis).

The contest ends on April 10, 2004. At that time, we will post all the designs. Don't submit a design if you don't want it posted. For the winners, we will be buying the designs for the prize money. And then I would talk to the winners about having them (or whomever they recommend) produce the Tiki chess sets under contract to us.

You can post designs and ideas until then, but remember that others will see your postings.

To apply, simply email your contact info to "Peter Shikli", along with your designs as attachments.

I'll check this regularly for questions.

For the winners, we will be buying the designs for the prize money.

Will you actually be purchasing the design for $200.00 top pay? Or, does the artist hold the artistic concept until a contract is agreed upon? If no contract is signed with the artist, who, according to your company, owns the rights to the design?
Thanks for your time.

[ Edited by: Mrs. B on 2004-03-10 20:12 ]

sOunds awesome, but also sounds like it would be a fortune to make! At an average of $100 per foot for palm carvers... yOwZa! I've been planning on making a normal size set with the necklaces I carve as pieces, but BIG, I never thought would be usable or marketable... or is it? gOod Luck.
http://www.tikitony.com

Are you looking for carved samples, or just drawings?

If carvings, do you want an example for each piece that is full size, or scaled down?
(the time and energy needed to do this may not be worth the $)

how cool would it be to have a small table top tiki chess set!

Cool idea. I wonder if anyone has seen a tiki set before. Seems like a nitch that needs to be filled.

Hilo Hattie's got a Hawaiian Monarchy chess set. The bishops are tikis.

http://www.hilohattie.com/showdetl.cfm?catid=20&objectgroup_id=392&prodid=3742

For the prize money, we would be buying the design.

We would have no problem stipulating that the data rights transfer to us after our purchase of the first tiki chess set from you. Our intent is to get into the habit of buying tikis from the winners. We don't carve tikis ourselves.

But if we pay for the designs, we don't want a competitor to be able to use it or sell it against us.

On 2004-03-10 20:03, Mrs. B wrote:

Will you actually be purchasing the design for $200.00 top pay? Or, does the artist hold the artistic concept until a contract is agreed upon? If no contract is signed with the artist, who, according to your company, owns the rights to the design?
Thanks for your time.

[ Edited by: Mrs. B on 2004-03-10 20:12 ]

[ Edited by: pshikli on 2004-03-13 16:24 ]

We would be happy to stipulate that the artistic data rights transfer after we buy the first chess set from the artist. Our intent is to get into the habit of buying tiki chess sets from the artist. We do not carve tikis ourselves.

We just don't want to see a competitor using or selling the designs we paid for against us.

On 2004-03-10 20:03, Mrs. B wrote:

For the winners, we will be buying the designs for the prize money.

Will you actually be purchasing the design for $200.00 top pay? Or, does the artist hold the artistic concept until a contract is agreed upon? If no contract is signed with the artist, who, according to your company, owns the rights to the design?
Thanks for your time.

[ Edited by: Mrs. B on 2004-03-10 20:12 ]

Drawings. We would contract the winner to produce samples as part of making the first set.

On 2004-03-11 12:41, Polynesiac wrote:
Are you looking for carved samples, or just drawings?

If carvings, do you want an example for each piece that is full size, or scaled down?
(the time and energy needed to do this may not be worth the $)

We don't expect this to be cheap, but it has to stay within the bounds of reality. We sell a teak chess set with a 3-foot king for $2300 and buy them for about half that. We sell the teak chess set with a 4-foot king for $3300 and also buy them for about half that.

To control costs, look to the pawns. Design quick, clean cuts for those (half the chess set), and get creative with the major pieces, especially the king (2 each set).

Also think in terms of tools and templates. Is your design amenable for that?

Count the cuts in your design. If each piece has hundreds of cuts, your design will be expensive. If you can convey the art of a tiki in a few cuts, your costs go down, and more importantly, your tiki will look strong and weather well.

On 2004-03-10 22:34, tikitony wrote:
sOunds awesome, but also sounds like it would be a fortune to make! At an average of $100 per foot for palm carvers... yOwZa! I've been planning on making a normal size set with the necklaces I carve as pieces, but BIG, I never thought would be usable or marketable... or is it? gOod Luck.
http://www.tikitony.com

The smallest MegaChess set has a king 8 inches tall. Table-top sets go from that to where the king is 16 inches tall. I always thought tikis had to be larger, but if you can design a tiki chess set for such table-top use, bring it on.

On 2004-03-11 13:42, Futura Girl wrote:
how cool would it be to have a small table top tiki chess set!

And the bishops do look cool, nicely ferocious.

But think about how we actually play a chess game full of tikis. We have to be able to easily tell the difference between the pieces. Hilo Hattie's tiki could be a bishop, king, or any piece. Take a peek at the design guideline http://www.megachess.com/spec48.htm for some notes on what unique features of each piece tell a chess player what the piece is. A tiki bishop needs a somewhat conical head or hat, like a dunce cap with a slit. Or a horn.

On 2004-03-11 14:26, Kono wrote:
Hilo Hattie's got a Hawaiian Monarchy chess set. The bishops are tikis.

http://www.hilohattie.com/showdetl.cfm?catid=20&objectgroup_id=392&prodid=3742

On 2004-03-10 20:03, Mrs. B wrote:

For the prize money, we would be buying the design.

We would have no problem stipulating that the data rights transfer to us after our purchase of the first tiki chess set from you. Our intent is to get into the habit of buying tikis from the winners. We don't carve tikis ourselves.

But if we pay for the designs, we don't want a competitor to be able to use it or sell it against us.

Will you actually be purchasing the design for $200.00 top pay? Or, does the artist hold the artistic concept until a contract is agreed upon? If no contract is signed with the artist, who, according to your company, owns the rights to the design?
Thanks for your time.

[ Edited by: Mrs. B on 2004-03-10 20:12 ]

On 2004-03-10 20:03, Mrs. B wrote:

Will you actually be purchasing the design for $200.00 top pay? Or, does the artist hold the artistic concept until a contract is agreed upon? If no contract is signed with the artist, who, according to your company, owns the rights to the design?
Thanks for your time.

[ Edited by: Mrs. B on 2004-03-10 20:12 ]

Hmmmm, interesting. Good luck with your venture.
Aloha!

PHikli,
Wow… I’m gonna try and be nice about this but… you know, you have come to a place where there is a community of very talented carvers, ( I am not one them, I’m a uke player) . these guys carve awesome tikis and have invested a lot in their art. The fair market value of the item you suggest so far exceeds the prize money as to be laughable. Most everyone I have run into on TC, are very nice and polite people and this may account for your lack of feedback on the subject. Your kinda out of bounds here pal. It’s a nice idea and all, but its gonna cost you a few bucks to pull it off. By the way just how would I go about moving around 2’ – 4’ palm trunks anyway, sounds like a lot of work for your average chess player, or do you plan on making 'em outa plastic and fiberglass like your other stuff. If you are intent on having this marvel of a chess set then go find a respectable sum of money and come on back. I’m almost certain you could attract top carvers if only you had the dough. TC is the right place to come for this sort of thing its just your price is so low as to be insulting, as a professional designer it upset me to see someone trying to pull a fast one and pitting artists against one and other for chicken feed, come on now you realy expect to buy the rights to 18 origanal woks of art for $350.00. I wouldn't hold your breath. Its an ambitious project and I hope you pull it off, you talk a good game on your environmental statement page so how about you give the same respect to artists here at home as you do your overseas carvers, relative of course to the artists standard of living. you are suggesting that while you want to help raise the standard of living for overseas carvers while at the same time lowering the worth of domestic art by turning it into a contest in order to pit people against each other and get off cheap. Maybe you could lower your sights and shoot for a koa set with the king set at 12” or 18”. It’s a much more manageable size both for carvers and chess player. So you end up with six pieces and around 90” of carvings including the rights ie. copyrights, reproduction rights, etc. you would have to ask the carvers how much this is worth, but it is a fair sum of money, but in the grand scheme of things hardly an earth shattering amount by any means. So the question becomes do you up your price and make carvers compete, which I can’t believe these guy would be into, or do you just take the time to look around this website and find someone who’s work you like, offer a fair price and be done with it. Again I have to say THERE ARE A LOT OF TALENTED ARTISTS ON THIS SITE, so come on now Phikli, you can make this happen, and I might even be first in line to order a set even thought I don’t like chess, heck 32 table top tikis in a set, I’m in. you said you would accept concept drawing, in fact this may be all you are after, I think this is a fair request the time and expence involved in carving a sample would exceede your prize money. I just had to sound off on this deal as it smacks of exploiting artists and I stand against that sort of thing. so stop with the games and start treating these people with the respect they deserve. you appear to be a ligit business man, why not start acting like a professional. take a little time to look around TC find someone you like and get in touch with them and get them to do some work for hire. this contest thing is just not an ethical thing to do man, at least not at the present prize structure. suppose a designer rather than a carver is the winner. he is parted with his design for 200 bucks. he suggests a carver who carves the design for around 100 bucks a foot (1000 buck worth of carvings?)no one gets a back end except you. your in for a mear 1350.00 clams (preproduction)and you have 18 designs and six carved pieces. guess who get the short end of the stick, the designer, who get not much more than an avarage bar tab! meanwhile your off shopping for new oak doors for your house. poeple love to pull this junk on artists, thats why people like actors form guilds, to protect themselves from those who seek to exploit thier art and run off with all the profit. by the way I didn't notice pricing on your web site, (I may have missed it) just how much does a big ole teak chess set go for anyway? face it if you could pull it off yourself you would not be here sniffing around for ultra cheap art. come up with a model where the artist is not treated like a dupe and I'm sure you will get better results.

ARTIST SHOULD DEMAND A BACK END WHEN THEIR ART IS REPRODUCED WITHOUT LIMITS!Call it royalities or residuals or whatever you like, just make sure you get your just deserves.if this guy wants to buy out your backend then let him make you a realistic offer If anyone of us accept his terms we set up a downward spiral for everyone, we undermine our true value, and give the message that we are willing to pit ourselves against each other for nothing more than ego gratifcation and a bar tab.

hey pshikli, do you have contests for your accountant? just have a dozen CPA's do your books and then choose which book keeping you like best and pay for that one? Okay I'm ranting now, I've driven this into the ground.

Artists Unite Against Exploitive Practices,

BWANA

[ Edited by: Bwana Tiki on 2004-03-14 11:41 ]

[ Edited by: Bwana Tiki on 2004-03-14 11:46 ]

I've been working on a small (normal sized) chess set for some time now... it's a pain in the but. I'm doing something kind of like my "kentiky's" and it's realllly slow going. Worst part is... I'd like to sell it, but I'm sure that I won't once I'm done with the whole dang set!

I'm glad to see I wasn't reading pshikli's post wrong. Bwana Tiki pretty much said everything I was thinking.

I just got my first chess set commission! table top size. I talk to the guy tomorrow... I had plans to make a set for the first tiki show in ‘97 and blew it off for the time involved and the price folks expect.

$200 for a design is kind of laughable, I’ve work in toy/product design for 12 years and never heard anything like this.

good luck with the project... I’ll post the set I’ve been commissioned to do later on.... all rights reserved ...
Look for the original Bone Productions/tikimania.com chess set line in 2005, however the price will be for the collector. USA hand made product ain’t cheap.

On 2004-03-14 14:08, Rorysm wrote:
I've been working on a small (normal sized) chess set for some time now... it's a pain in the but. I'm doing something kind of like my "kentiky's" and it's realllly slow going.

Yeah, I know a guy in the UK who's doing one too. He plans to get them cast and made into little resin chess-Tikis. It's a great idea but it looks like one that's been replicated around the world. I guess that the person who comes out with one first will sell it fast but the better carver will win out in the long run.

Good luck!
Trader Woody

Artists Unite Against Exploitive Practices,

BWANA

Cheers to our new spokesman!!!

Bong? You're fired!!!

Bwana, I'm sure you'll be getting a few free mai tais when us artists run into you!!

sOrry, I just realized that by me responding, with the pictures I just edited, would have entered me in the contest.

[ Edited by: tikitony on 2004-03-15 23:29 ]

pay no attention to the string, I can't imagine what thats for....

On 2004-03-14 00:04, Bwana Tiki wrote:
I just had to sound off on this deal as it smacks of exploiting artists and I stand against that sort of thing.

Respectfully I must say the artists here on Tiki Central are not idiots, and each artist here can decide for themselves whether or not the prize money offered is worth the effort. I can't see how any artist who agreed to try it would be exploited.

~Hanford

“Respectfully I must say the artists here on Tiki Central are not idiots, and each artist here can decide for themselves whether or not the prize money offered is worth the effort. I can't see how any artist who agreed to try it would be exploited.

~Hanford”

First off I guess I’ll go out on a limb on this one, I don’t know Hanford and for all I know I could be banned for life if I sass back at him, so again I’ll try and be nice about this but…I never said or implied that the artists here on Tiki Central are idiots, far from it, that being said I must point that I myself am an artist, am on TC and am indeed an Idiot, I can’t believe that I’m alone on this one. But it was never my intention to call anyone else an idiot, I believe idiots self identify sooner or later, I simply do it sooner, (other coconuts feel free to jump it on this). Indeed each artist can and will decide for themselves if they want to be party to this sort of thing. I’m simply voicing the opinion that by doing so they undermine the value of artists in this forum. Artists have a long history of being exploited and many times they are willing victims of this exploitation. It is often the case that the exploited go along willingly. Here is a simple example I’m reminded of by a Randy Newman song, (yes about real true events). Slave traders did not always chase down Africans, sometimes they could simply sweet talk them into coming to America, the unsuspecting African would willingly board the ship and sail away to become Americans, in the end they would arrive only to be sold into slavery. But hey they agreed to it so I guess they are not being exploited. Again I refer back to the example of actors, if they did not stand together producers would not pay a living wage to anyone, instead they would find those who could be sweet talked into doing it for free in order to get that big break. Competition becomes cut throat and everyone looses except the producers/ exploiters. So just being a willing victim does not mean there is no exploitation, ask any teen prostitute who accepted help at the Los Angeles greyhound station. It seems to me Hanford that you have spent a good deal of time and energy setting up a community, and the artists here form a strong subculture, not every artist in this community is savvy to scams like this, some are relatively new to the art world, it may never occur to them that participating in this sort of thing undermines their fellow artists. That hardly makes them an idiot, just a bit short on info on a particular subject. The only reason I went off on a tirade was because I do respect the artists here and felt most people on TC were too polite to confront this issue head on, Well I may be a lot of things, but polite ain’t one of them. So Hanford knock it off with the strong implication that I regard the artists here as idiots, I never said that or implied that. respectfully my eye.

OOooo!!Ooo! grunt grunt... where's my bannanna, or is that bananna, or...

Banana Fanna Fo Fanna Fee Fi Fo'anna....banana....Al!

This will surely get me reprimanded :lol:

I just can't wait to see the outcome of this. Is the Chess Dude gonna "screw" some new tiki artist?? Is Hanford gonna come down on Bwana??? Will Crazy Al find his Bananas?? Will Mrs B ever stop singing that song?? I guess we will find out tomorrow. Same TC time.? Same TC channel.?

alright you monkeys knock it off. I knew you lot were trouble the first time I met you. you would poke a boar with a stick! I'm in deep enough without wingnuts egging me on, you should be ashamed of yourselves. now put down the bananas and fly right. Just cause ya finished that tiki bar don't mean you can slack off, so go make something else and stop leading me down the dark path.

where's my frigging mai tai,

On 2004-03-15 21:31, Bwana Tiki wrote:
I never said or implied that the artists here on Tiki Central are idiots, far from it, So Hanford knock it off with the strong implication that I regard the artists here as idiots, I never said that or implied that. respectfully my eye.

Well I never said that you said they were idiots. I never implied that you said, or said you implied, or implied you implied (I think that covers all conditions, doesn’t it?). My statement stands on its own, regardless of what you did or didn’t infer.

You went off on him for something fairly obvious that he didn’t try to hide. And you insulted people who started work on or were considering trying their hand at this contest. Even if someone was dying to get their work turned into a chess set, who is going to post their design now? No, you posted your comments in a way that anyone who was thinking of doing it now feels either insulted or embarrassed, and at the same time you sabotaged the contest.

Now take a look at that page he posted. See how simple those six designs are? Can you imagine designs like that but in tiki style, to-scale but without dimensions? Perhaps sketched, single color, without side views or plan views? That’s 6 sketched-out 2d renderings. Now imagine getting paid 200 bucks for 6 sketches. That’s not a rip-off. That’s not exploitation. Sure, its less money then our best artists here get for their time. But I remember a time when I was in art school where I would have stayed up all night working on a contest like this – where if I won I could have my designs made into a chess set without needing to render the side view or fill in all the details and dimensions. And the 200 bucks for an evening would be way more than what I was getting paid at the time.

It’s not that often in the professional design world that someone says “hey, you do the fun part: come up with the look – and we’ll figure out the details of how to make them in 3D; how to carve them.” Usually you have to be pretty damn good and proven yourself before you get handed projects like that!

Now, you claim “ARTISTs SHOULD DEMAND A BACK END WHEN THEIR ART IS REPRODUCED WITHOUT LIMITS!” but come on. You think work-for-hire of a professional artist (like you suggested) is going to include royalties? Not any professional artist I’ve ever met does that. Do you think the design agency that did the AT&T Logo gets a penny every time it is used?

There are so many things wrong with your perceived model of “back end” that I don’t know where to start. I could go on and on but I’m sick of typing.

Exploitation? Come on.

Hanford,
I’ll be happy to explain how the backend works, this seems like a situation that is usually handled by a backend buyout. It’s not some new concept I made up, it’s really not that unusual in many artistic endeavors. And I’d be happy to address all your inquiries as well including any questions or clarifications after the fact. I’ll try and post tomorrow night, its coming up on 3:00 and I have other writing to do yet tonight. Stay tuned, I can support this position and it is motivated by genuine respect for the many fine artists who frequent this site which you so generously provide. In fact as a gesture of good fait I will subscribe if you will consent to accepting my subscription fee. Besides if you don’t end up giving me the boot I plan on sticking around as I rather enjoy the local events and it seems the right thing to do, (subscribe that is.) I know I’m a bit snippy but it appears I’m not alone in this, seems someone’s got a bur in his saddle. And if ya would rather just drop it altogether that’s fine too, just let me know if ya want an explanation or just want me to knock it off. BTW I’m sure there are people who will still want in on the contest, just as there are always actors to do nonunion film for free just to get their chops. I’d rather see someone who has invested in his skill get a fair paying gig, but hey that’s just me. Someone already said to me, “hey you do the fun part”, Its not as easy as it looks. I reviewed the design criteria and I couldn’t design six quality designs in an evening, and I design all day every day. Design is hard work, real work, its not a lark. And I think that it has a real value. I simply believe the price being suggested is not in line with value of commercial design.

The sun’ll come up tomorrow,
Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow,
There’ll be SUUUUUUUUN….

Bwana,

There are two issues here: the rules, and the debate. I respect your opinion and you won't get booted for stating it. I do ask people be repsectful and polite to others. Overall you have been repectful, and (correct me if I'm wrong) you've not been punished. Please don't confuse my engagement in the debate as any form of "punishment" or "correction". I try my best to keep moderation behind-the-scenes.

In other words, I don't feel you've even come close to breaking the rules. :) However that doesn't mean your comments have gone unnoticed by me. As a person I have my own opinions and by-and-large I keep them seperate from the policies here on TC.

I simply believe the price being suggested is not in line with value of commercial design.

In a nutshell, if you had stated it this way I wouldn't have ever replied. Like I said, everyone can decide for themselves whether it's worth it or not. It is obvious that for the professional designers here it's not worth an evening to try and win this competition cash-wise. But the way you phrased your opinion compelled me to reply in the way I did. The heart of my message being: if you think it's worth it, then go for it and don't let somone else decide whether or not it is rip-off.

In fact as a gesture of good faith I will subscribe if you will consent to accepting my subscription fee.

I'll accept it!

~Hanford

Lots of questions about artistic rights. Here's what it comes down to. If we spend thousands of dollars marketing a design and start ordering tikis 32 at a time, we'd like good answers to the following 2 questions:

1.) How do we insure that we do not face the artist or another distributor as a competitor for the design we promoted?

2.) If the artist becomes unable or unwilling to continue production, what are our options?

The issue of artistic rights are negotiable, but in our shoes, you would need good answers to these two questions.

All artists who present designs from any material to MegaChess get the same two questions. They just don't get paid a contest prize for their designs.

What we're looking for takes under an hour or so with a sketch pad. If it takes longer, the design is probably too intricate to be relevant for us.

If the contest idea fails, we may look into contracting a tiki artist individually. But then the idea of making this search open to anyone in the tiki community also fails.

Don't forget that you can design and build a large tiki chess set on your own. Once your marketing succeeds and our customers ask for it, we'll consider adding it to our product line. That way, you keep all artistic rights, along with the initial costs and risk.

Peter/MegaChess

On 2004-03-10 15:11, pshikli wrote:
I checked with Hanford Lemoore, and he said this would be an interesting post.

I dug around the forums looking for a large tiki-style chess set. I own http://www.MegaChess.com and would like to add such a line to our offerings. So I had an idea.

We are hereby posting a design contest. $200 for first prize, $100 for second, $50 for third.

I'm thinking Tiki poles where the king is about 4-feet tall. We have design guidelines for artisans at http://www.megachess.com/spec48.htm, though I expect significant changes to keep to what makes tikis special. Use the design guidelines just to understand what makes each piece unique, and then map that to tikis, or your style of tikis.

Simple is better than intricate. A strong statement with a few cuts is better than lots of details that don't weather well anyway. Also consider the cost of production. The design has to be affordable (remember: a chess set has 32 tikis).

The contest ends on April 10, 2004. At that time, we will post all the designs. Don't submit a design if you don't want it posted. For the winners, we will be buying the designs for the prize money. And then I would talk to the winners about having them (or whomever they recommend) produce the Tiki chess sets under contract to us.

You can post designs and ideas until then, but remember that others will see your postings.

To apply, simply email your contact info to "Peter Shikli", along with your designs as attachments.

I'll check this regularly for questions.

[ Edited by: pshikli on 2004-03-17 08:16 ]

[ Edited by: pshikli on 2004-03-17 08:18 ]

Just a tip on artistic rights. Any outfit like MegaChess with other existing product lines has other artists. Before signing on the dotted line, ask to speak to a couple of them. Ask them if they got a good deal or not.

I know what ours would say. The teak guys would say they hired 6 guys to cover our orders. The topiary guy would say we looked out for his interests because we wanted to make sure he was happy making our topiaries.

In our business, 10% of the game is artistic rights to a design. 30% is an artist with the talent to produce the design. And 60% is an artist who gets out of bed regularly inspired to produce great things. We don't jeopardize the 90% by getting unreasonable with the 10%.

Peter/MegaChess

On 2004-03-17 04:48, hanford_lemoore wrote:
Bwana,

There are two issues here: the rules, and the debate. I respect your opinion and you won't get booted for stating it. I do ask people be repsectful and polite to others. Overall you have been repectful, and (correct me if I'm wrong) you've not been punished. Please don't confuse my engagement in the debate as any form of "punishment" or "correction". I try my best to keep moderation behind-the-scenes.

In other words, I don't feel you've even come close to breaking the rules. :) However that doesn't mean your comments have gone unnoticed by me. As a person I have my own opinions and by-and-large I keep them seperate from the policies here on TC.

I simply believe the price being suggested is not in line with value of commercial design.

In a nutshell, if you had stated it this way I wouldn't have ever replied. Like I said, everyone can decide for themselves whether it's worth it or not. It is obvious that for the professional designers here it's not worth an evening to try and win this competition cash-wise. But the way you phrased your opinion compelled me to reply in the way I did. The heart of my message being: if you think it's worth it, then go for it and don't let somone else decide whether or not it is rip-off.

In fact as a gesture of good faith I will subscribe if you will consent to accepting my subscription fee.

I'll accept it!

~Hanford

[ Edited by: pshikli on 2004-03-17 08:15 ]

****** PLEASE NOTE ******

Bwana Tiki is NOT an incarnation of the old, unfinished BONG.

(man, I'm glad the heat's off my raggady ass!)

I posted a link to this elsewhere, but didn't get the tiki chess connection until now. Is someone doing LSD with their Fogcutters? This whole deal sounds like tiki de-evolution.
KG

Fri, Dec. 12, 2003

North Port, Fla., Restaurant to Offer Taste of the Tropics

By Garry Overbey, The Sun, Port Charlotte, Fla. Knight Ridder/Tribune Business News

Dec. 11--NORTH PORT, Fla. - Want a roasted pig delivered to your door?

Robert McKiernan promises that and much more, once his new restaurant, Hula-La, opens.

McKiernan and his partner, Christopher Napurano, are striving for "a theme park atmosphere" with a tropical flavor, rather than just another eatery.

"What we're offering is a new dining experience," McKiernan said.

Once renovations are complete, the restaurant, at 9071 S. Tamiami Trail near River Road, will feature seven waterfalls, 40 tiki lamps, A Giant Chessboard with nearly 5-foot-high pieces, a bandstand and dancing area, and a 9-foot mini locomotive circling the restaurant.

Oh, and there's also food.

Napurano, a Culinary Institute of America graduate who's worked in several top-rated restaurants and hotels in New England, said he's blended Polynesian cooking styles with his own techniques to add "a little bit of fusion" to the menu. Among them, Hula-La will offer Napurano's version of Bento barbecue, a marinating and roasting method used in Hawaii.

Aside from what the owners say is the cheapest breakfast in town -- pulled pork hash, toast and an egg for 72 cents -- Hula-La will offer a half-pound of pulled pork on a specialty garlic roll for $4.25. The menu also includes stuffed quahaug clams, Li Hina Mui duckling marinated in Polynesian spices, Nantucket diver scallops, as well as comfort foods like meat loaf and beer-battered fish and chips.

But the centerpiece of the restaurant is its steam cooker, used to cook whole pigs, along with prime rib, baby back ribs, chicken and turkey.

"The steam is the secret to that machine," Napurano said. "It makes it tender like you've never had before."

The steam system also reduces the fat content, making the meals more "heart healthy" than pork-eaters are used to, Napurano said.

"Nobody in the country got a pig roast like this," said inventor Al Karlowitsch, a German-born North Port resident who sold the only two existing cookers and the patent rights to McKiernan.

The difference between this and other cookers, Karlowitsch added, can be found in the flavor, which can be enjoyed without condiments.

"You don't need ketchup, no salt," he said. "It's all marinated. The meat is so moist."

Hula-La is holding a contest to name the cooker.

Since they want everything to be just right when they open, McKiernan said they won't open until they're ready. But he said he'll offer free food the week leading up to New Year's if it doesn't open by Christmas.

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2004-03-17 15:19 ]

Wow.

Does this mean Hanford is a slave trader selling members of his own tribe?

[ Edited by: pablus on 2004-03-19 14:00 ]

Okay I stole a few moments and I'm gonna adderss a few items right now, the reply for Hanford will have to waite till a little later tonight.
Bong?

On 2004-03-17 09:16, Tiki_Bong wrote:
****** PLEASE NOTE ******
Bwana Tiki is NOT an incarnation of the old, unfinished BONG.
(man, I'm glad the heat's off my raggady ass!)

Really I have no Idea what you could mean by that... I guess you had to be there. Glad to hear you are a more finished Bong. Sorry to hear about your raggedy ass, but when you go letting mountain lions loose at parties, things can get a little... well, tore up. if you want some advice I'd apply cold not heat, maybe you could sit in a big clam shell full of your favorite blended drink, kind of a bung hole mystery bowl, in any event I hope you feel better soon.

*On 2004-03-17 15:32, pablus wrote:[/i
Wow.
Does this mean Hanford is a slave trader selling members of his own tribe?
I was wondering where purple jade was.

First off I'm feeling pretty smug as I just figured out there is a quote button. Secondly, NO. at least not that I know of. I was just pointing out that sometimes thing seem like a good idea at first and then... like the time when I joined a satanic cult only to find out that... ah, hold the line on that one, the jury's still out.

oh shoot multiple sorces to quote. I give up, no big lines to set them off, of hold on...

[i]On 2004-03-17 07:40, pshikli wrote:*
What we're looking for takes under an hour or so with a sketch pad. If it takes longer, the design is probably too intricate to be relevant for us.

simplicity in design often takes a lot of time to pull off. I still say it would take more than a night to produce 6 quality designs. And there are considerations not even mentioned yet such as production methods. When designers work there are more considerations than just what something looks like, for instance how will the design be reproduced, carvings, molds, and if molds what type. Good design recognizes that someone must build what is designed, and this construction process informs your design. Undercuts may not be a problem for teak carvers, but could reek havoc in molding processes. Detail may drive up costs for carved pieces but have little effect of the cost of molded pieces except in initial sculpting stages, a one time expense. There are many things to be considered and that was just an example.
There are a few other points I would like to make but I’ll save them for my response to Hanford and simply include my observations about the information you put out in this reply. Pshikli I don’t get the impression that you are a bad guy, I just think there are better models to achieve your ends and you seem to have found a few already like your topiary guy, he benefits by being a supplier and can absorb design fees as part of a bigger picture, he has a back end. In your proposed scenario the designer gets left out after the contest unless he can do production work as well. I can think of several ways to structure what you wish to accomplish without breaking anyone’s bank or leaving artist holding the bag. Simple things like requests for proposals (ROP), and optioning intellectual property rights. This has the added benefit of protecting your interests and the designer’s at the same time. If you never exercise your option, or let it expire you don’t stand to loose all that much money, and the artist doesn’t loose his or her work. In the interim the artist is prevented from shopping around the designs, you are locked in for a given time and have sole rights to exercise you option. Now you are in a position to make a deal everyone can live with rather than simply here’s two hundred bucks, take it of leave it. You can write options may different way and I’m sure you could find something that work and establish limits for all involved. I hope you are able to produce your tiki chess set, and I hope it does well by everyone involved. My concern is the undervaluation of artists in general, not just those at TC, the notion that it is not real work and is something easy that anyone can do in a few hours with a sketch pad, is a false notion. Most of the people I know are professional artists of some description, and as such have studied hard, yes as in real schools with big tuition bills, and invested in themselves. At the same time there are many wonderful armature artists as well who are employed in other fields. And many fine works are produced by these individuals as well, I’ve seen many examples here at TC. In any case it all take time and inspiration, not just a few hours for some quickie ideas. The result of a few hours is seldom more than stepping off point, and one which must often later be discarded. First ideas are seldom the end all be all. You want a good product right? Find a process that allows your potential creatives to develop good work for you. You seem to have done it before so it should be old hat.

Till Later tonight,

---

Bwana Tiki

[ Edited by: Bwana Tiki on 2004-03-17 18:46 ]

On 2004-03-17 18:42, Bwana Tiki wrote:
. Till Later tonight,

Bwana, is it safe to assume you feel your five previous posts on this subject do not cover it sufficiently?

Read Lawgiver 29:6

[ Edited by: Atomic Cocktail on 2004-03-17 20:26 ]

[i]On 2004-03-17 19:52, Atomic Cocktail

So, is it safe to assume you feel your five previous posts on this subject do not cover it sufficiently?

He's addressing questions....go back to bed.
:lol:

Bwana,

If nothing else you are at least loquacious. You must be popular at cocktail parties.

By any chance are you a lawyer?

man I wish I had a dime for every word Bawana has written... I like it... but where do you find the time??

How many chess sketches could I have busted out since I've started typing...

o'crap I got'ta get the F' off of hear..........

okay fine,
it seems maybe I sould just shut the hell up. I was acutally working towards enlightenment but now it's just name calling, A LAWYER!?!? NO.
so fine... Do what thy wilt shall be the whloe of the law, so unless I'm asked about the subject, I'm out uninformed will is better than no will at all I guess. you know I don't benifit from this discussion at all and I've spent a good deal of time thinking it through, looking for a few concepts that could help the situation turn itself around, but hey fine. I'll wrap up. Hanford you are indeed correct, "I respect your opinion and you won't get booted for stating it. I do ask people be repsectful and polite to others. Overall you have been repectful, and (correct me if I'm wrong) you've not been punished." I have not been punished. I'm thankful of that as I had no idea if I was about to be exiled, turns out I wasn't. Btw, you nere did anything to make me think you were that kind of a guy but ya never know, and what with the policical climate these days to disagree with anything at all feels dangerous, and this is your site so... you never know. as it turns its not so dangerous here. so I'll keep my end of the deal and send you a few bucks to help keep things rolling. thats it I'm off to work on mobile tiki bar designs. if you want to hear my ideas to make this chess thing work I'm sure you will ask, (I'll lurk to see if anyone cares to know). beyond that I'm off this thread.

loquacious!?! what the hell is that, is it like jungle rot or something? knock it off AtCock, or I'll come ta one of YOUR cocktail parties.

lawgiver 29:6!?! could ya PM me a copy or link.

Bwana Tiki

[ Edited by: Bwana Tiki on 2004-03-17 21:08 ]

Oh Well, might as well put in my 3 cents worth.
To win the sketch prize of $200 for 6 sketches, Good deal.
To accept the contract to carve 32 pieces for $1500, (4 foot size) Not a Good deal.
I don't undersatan why pshikli can't get his 3rd world Teak carvers to just carve him some Tikis for their 3rd world going rate of $1.00 per hour or what ever they get.(that teak is Hard wood to carve and it really dulls the tools Quickly.)
He is worried about his design being ripped off? The Interesting thing about "Hand carved Tikis" is that they are All unique and different and all you have to do is make a few Artistic changes and they would be different.
Will I enter the contest? No because I cannot draw a straight line, or I would.
Would I consider carving the pieces at 3rd World rates..Not!
I don't understand what the game is, but I realy don't think pshikli is trying to take advantage of anyone, I think he has seen some really nice art and is trying to use it for his own profit(understandable). He could have just copied the Pictures posted here and changed them a little and gone on his merry way and no one here would have known a thing. At least he is Up Front with his offer however meager it is.
Well maybe that was 4 cents worth (or 1 cent depending on how you look at it)
Thanks,BenZart

Can the sketch we seek be done in an hour or so?

We're also doing this contest thing for MegaChess out of bamboo. The front runner appears to be http://www.megachess.com/support/bamboochess.gif The guy started the sketch in a supermarket checkout line when the idea hit him. He munched it around in his head on the drive home, and then fired off the sketch. No D-size blueprints. No orthogonic views. He was out maybe half an hour. Unusual, yes. But a great design is not measured by how long you diddle with it, but the power and simplicity of the result.

Peter/MegaChess

[ Edited by: pshikli on 2004-03-18 07:36 ]

Re backend, royalties, etc:

That assumes one person designs and another produces. That doesn't generally work for us. We're most interested in designs from artists we can contract to produce the tikis. Those production fees should include backends, frontends, royalties, and whatever else you think you can get.

The Tiki Chess contest reached its deadline and closed without any entries.