doubravsky - first tiki - some questions

Well, after realizing that I can't afford to possibly buy all the tikis I need for my place, and after driving by the Mexican fan palm logs in the field near my work, and lurking around here for a while, I realized it's time to try my hand at this... and maybe someone like me with NO carving experience could make this work.

I read the carving post, and lots of others...

Went and bought some chisels at Home Depot. Snagged four palm logs and started debarking one last night. Got about halfway done with only one finger bleeding.

I went to Rockler's Woodworking today to ask about sharpening the chisels, and first was given a sharpening book, then taken over to some palm tools, then he suggested that I come to their Tuesday carving class and ask question rather than buy anything yet.

I did manage to buy a draw knife... hopefully that will make the debarking a little easier.

Can anyone point me to some info on sharpening? Should I get a stone, or a grinder?

I'll post a pic soon... can't do it from work.

Thanks for info!!

Welcome to TC. You will find that there are a lot of very helpful folks here. I would chip in, but, I only carved one log (My first) with the chisel dealios and then got greedy for faster results and went electric (Die grinders, chainsaws, sanders etc) so I am not enlightened on sharpening those things. They look impressive in the garage though. There are some masters and purists here that will undoubtably chime in. Kick off your flip flops and be patient. They will be here soon enough.

Mahalo

Some people are burdened by the sharpening and some don't mind it, but some, like me, use a sharpening session as a meditation that slowly gets me into a peaceful state of mind for carving and get meticulous with it.

I have only had to deal w/ hand chisels and my own few Home Depot chisels to sharpen and stropping works well to hone them back to a razor sharp edge. I get annoyed easily if my tools are less than razor sharp.

This is what I got:

(another plug for woodcraft)

The few big chisels I have don't get much use so I haven't bothered learning how to sharpen them but I imagine that I will have to invest in stones for them.

I would like to see what the other carvers will have to say about sharpening.

Since you are just beginning, I would wait on something more sophisticated.
I would recommend an Arkansas Sharpening Stone & some honing oil. You can get one on eBay. These are the finest sharpening stones you can find.

Only sharpen in one direction. Use a leather strop to remove any oil & metal shavings.

Repeat when necessary.

Welcome to TC Doubravsky, come on in and hang out awhile. Yours is a question thet pops up every now and then here, but every day to carvers everywhere. Here is a link or two about sharpening tools. See if these answer your questions.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=8722&forum=7&hilite=sharpening%20chisels
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http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10451&forum=7&hilite=sharpening%20chisels
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http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=8722&forum=7&hilite=sharpening%20chisels
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http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=6426&forum=7&vpost=62744&hilite=sharpening%20chisels
There is enough info to fill a book. Hope you find it useful!
Don't forget to post your pictures.

Thanks for the advice... here is the log after the 1st 1/2 hour of debarking last night:

After it becomes a tiki the plan is to put it near the tiki bar I recently finished...

col front on the bar. nice job now back to debarking...

Nice bar dude! Welcome to TC.

Those people at the store sound like good people. Im always impressed when they talk you out of buying something. Personally, I find it a big help when I can watch people 1st hand carving. As good as the photos on here are, it just aint the same sometimes.

As for carving, Ive only just started my 1st wood piece. Hope you have fun. If you need any advice, there is always some expert TCer willing to help

Well I finished the debarking last night.... the draw knife REALLY helped. Tonight's mission is to design and make a drawing on paper..

As you can see... the log has lots of cracks.. but I figure since it's my first one.. no big deal.

Tonight we spent trying to design the tiki.... it's hard to draw it out when you haven't experience at it. Here's what we came up with.... something simple and do-ablefor a first try.

Can anyone point me to some examples of the drawing on the tiki itself? I'm working on figuring out how to draw the multiple lines where the cuts go.

Doubravsky, welcome to the board! Mexi fan palm is indeed some great wood to start on. You will find that the wood will improve and get harder and less stringy as you go down about an inch or so. It may mold a bit after you do your cuts, but that's normal. A little alcohol or mild bleach/water spray solution will get rid of that. Don't worry - it won't hurt anything. You can go for a "chisel" finish or let it dry a bit after it's mostly carved and try some 60 grit sand paper to smooth it up. Palm also stains well if that's what you like. You will have a killer tiki when you're done. Post lots of pix as you go - that's what we like here on TC. Good luck.

A-A

Looks like Fun.
I would start with a center line on the front, then draw your eyes then the nose then the mouth. After you get those lined out. thee other lines will fall into place with what room you have left. Easy as 1 2 3.
Have fun and yes, pictures at every stage so we can all help you.

Thanks for the replies... it really helps to have such great feedback! The articles have been invaluable. I went and bought a cheap angle grinder yesterday with some 60 and 120 grit discs, and a Japanese saw for the mouth.

AA - saw your lunch time set up. That looks really relaxing! I'd love to come down and watch and learn.. but I'm in Riverside... bit of a drive.

Tonight I draw on the tiki... can't wait to actually get started carving!

Glad to see ya jumping in . I carved my first just one year ago and its amazing how addicting it becomes. Keep us posted with progress shots.

Ahhhhh Yes, I remember my first one. Looks like your off to a great start. Those cracks you have, believe me, are very minor. And like I learned, they are desired in some situations. As far as sharpening goes, I'm now on my 7th or 8th now, and I haven't had to sharpen my tools yet! I did buy the better quality stuff though, and I haven't done any palms, just the standard hardwoods. Alllllllllllright, back to work.

Doubravsky - Cool! you're in Riveside. I have a neice attending UCR and come out that way now & again. I can tell you you'll have no problem finding abundant supplies of mexican fan palm in the inland empire. I got about half of my stockpile from a tree trimmer in San Bernardino. The rest came fom Polynesiac in San Pedro. I'll shoot you a personal message (PM).

Cheers,

Aaron

Ok... got the drawing done on the log last night....

Then chiseled a tiny bit on the eyes... it was fun! I have a lot to learn.. more pics today.....

Ok... here's the little bit I did last night.. carved some eyes and cut some of the mouth with a pull saw.

Question... here's a close up of one of the eyes... seems hard to make the eyeball round.. and in general to clean it up... should I use.. the chisel, sandpaper, the angle grinder w/60, 120, a die grinder, or finishing sander.. what's the best way to clean up a really rough chisel?

I can see that it's easy as a first timer to go too shallow with the cuts... I may be doing that here. Whaddya think?

I'd cut in the more prominent features first like the nose and eyebrows, then reapply the lines for the eyes and lower features later. Remember there will be several different "levels" (or depths) for the features. Do everything rough with the chisel first, then do cleanup later. You just want to remove non-tiki wood and try to keep it proportional right now. It will get lots uglier before you clean it up, but that's just the way it works. I wouldn't try to get each feature perfect before moving on. Just get it all to a rough stage, refine it, then clean up all the details last. Patience is key. You may even get to fine sanding eventually - it just depends on the look you're going for. Chisel finish, super smooth, or something in-between? You decide - everyone does it a little different.

A die grinder with burrs will work great for cleaning up that eye, but it will probably want to go to a lower level on the log first. The angle grinder will work with the larger surfaces, but isn't too handy for the in close detail like the eyes (too big). Those little drum sanders with sanding sleeves work pretty well. Experiment a little - you'll see what works.

Aaron

AA- thanks a bunch for the great advice... I read through your first thread... it helped a lot! I changed direction and started on the nose and brows.... its not deep enough yet around the nose, but its getting a little closer. Here's today's progress:

Suggestions more than welcome! Its great to be able to get so much help on something I know so little about!

My on suggestion is Go Deep !!! That was the one thing that everyone told me when I started carving. It looks great so far .

doubravsky-
How did you transfer the picture to the wood? Did you use carbon paper?
Annie

Moondance... I used a level to draw a center line down the front of the face in the middle... then just freehanded it with a pencil, erasing liberally until it was right. Then I went over it with a sharpie. Well, it wasn't me actually, my wife did all of the drawing. I'm artistically challenged.

It actually seemed easier to draw it on the wood than to draw it on paper.

Thank you so much for the tip.
We wish you well on your first Tiki!!
Annie & Wes

ok... weekend progress shots:

and

took lots of wood off.. did the mouth and other stuff.... so what's my next move?

A new TC artist is created. That looks great!

Nice Tiki dude. Again, welcome to TC.

Ok.... made some more progress.... pics in the morning.

I learned...

1. careful with the die grinder or you cut stuff you don't wanna cut.

2. an angle grinder with 24 grit sander takes off a lotta wood fast.

What I need to know now....

1. How do you cut the lines between the teeth? I tried a chisel, didn't work. Side of the angle grinder, bad idea. Had to take in the teeth a little to fix that.There's gotta be an easy way. Help?

2. How do you clean up the back of the mouth? Can't get to it with an angle or die grinder?????

Help wanted!!!

Lookin Good Doubravsky, you have made a LOT of excellent progress on your first tiki.
You can yse a die grinder to clean out the back of the mouth if you can find a bit Long enough. They make them but you will have to look hard for it. You can yse a torch and wire brush. You can use a bent gouge about a # 9 by 1/2 inch which is a "U" shaped chisel. It looks and sounds like you are a "Tool" person so you should be able to find the right tool eventually. Just keep up the great work and keep the great pix flowing.

Looking really good . For the teeth I have used a dremel with a small burr or carving bit . Hope that helps

Benzart... thanks. I'll start looking around for some longer bits for the die grinder. I just got mine today.. and could only find one set of crappy bits at Harbor.

Whoops had to cut that short... screaming babies. Harbor Freight only had one set for the die grinder. Wire brush is a good idea.. I may have one somewhere. Yep... I like buyin tools.Good call!

Rodeo... could I get the same kind of bit for a die grinder?

I think that carbide is the only thing available for extended shaft burs because they have to be strong enough not to bend. That means they will be expensive, but sometimes when you need one, it's the only way to go.
Here are some links.

http://www.cobracarbide.com/prd_burrs.htm#18

"Interesting find" http://www.horsedental.com/index.html

http://www.jtsmach.com/jtswebshop/Abrasives/FD002.asp?prodcode=FD005e

http://burrs4less.com/q.htm

Remember the long shanks are prone to bending so be careful when using them.

Benzart... thanks! I looked last night but didn't find anything. Ok... so if I was gonna buy just one or two shapes... which would I buy?

Updates... from last night

and

Starting to sand a little and clean up stuff... and curve some of the features. I dorked up the nose and made it too small.. but oh well.

Still have to get the teeth cut. and the back of the mouth cleaned up...

This ones looking good

Well.... tiki #1 is finished. I'll start a new thread for my completed tikis... since I can't wait to get started on the next one. This one isn't perfect.. the teeth aren't right, the stain was WAY darker than I expected... but I'm satisfied for the first try. Onward and upward to #2

Two shapes would be a Ball and a Cylinder 3/8" to 1/2" would to it. Your first looks greateven if you did "Dork" up the nose.. We would not have known if you would not have told us!!
An Afterthought about how to clean up the back of this guys mouth? Since this one is pretty short, you could plunge cut up from the bottom and just make a clean cut on the back of the mouth and say the hole was for drainage or that the tiki needs to be able to swallow food if he is offered any.
Nice work.

keep up the good work and just have fun.

Hi, I'm a super newbie from the Orlando, FL area. I keep seeing Tikis and love them! So I really want to get started on one. My husband found some palms at the landfill for me and I'd love to start one. I've read a bunch on the main post here. I think I need to let them dry for several months before I can start - is that right? Can I get off the bark now or should I wait. And should I seal the ends of them now? I'm looking for my first set of carving tools, so any ideas would be great! Thanks a bunch!

One new Florida carving nut

Well, here's the little bit I learned from the first one. I just found the logs in a field and used 'em.. who knows how old the logs you get are? As for tools, I found a draw-knife (www.rockler.com) to be awesome for getting the bark off... bought a $30 chisel set from Home Depot, then ended up getting an angle grinder ($15) and die grinder ($39) cheapies from Harbor Freight....

Other than that... just go for it! Post pics every step of the way.... you get tons of help from this forum! But be careful, you'll get obsessed.... I find myself slowing down at every vacant lot looking for palm stumps!

Don't mean to step on this thread, but, Don't wait Sandy (Welcome to TC !!!) just dig into the log, it really doesn't matter how much moisture there is in a palm. They generally hold moisture after they have sat for some time. Start with debarking or smoothing the surface with a die grinder or draw blade, draw your impression of what is inside the log, and then carve it out. Post pics (preferably on your new thread :wink: Mahalo and welcome.

McTiki

On 2005-08-23 07:26, doubravsky wrote:
Starting to sand a little and clean up stuff... and curve some of the features. I dorked up the nose and made it too small.. but oh well.

"Dorking the Nose" sounds like a '50s surfing maneuver: "Gosh! Look at Moondoggie Dorking the Nose out there, isn't he swell!" :D I think that the nose looks fine as it is, and next time you can try a different nose.

Hi, the palms I have are freshly cut. They have green on them where the leaves would attach. I think they are the standard cabbage palms, similar to a windmill. So since they are fresh, is it still OK to start or should I wait? And do I cote the ends of the palms with something to slow the drying or not? I really appreciate all the ideas and help!!

Doubravsky - thanks for the tool ideas! I'll be heading to harbor freight this week to get some tools. Do you know if you can get that bark cutting knife at home depot?

Sandy

I didn't find the drawing knife at Home Depot or Lowe's. Here's a link http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/product_details.cfm?offerings_id=5178

and another...

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44502&cat=1,130,43332

that may help... I don't remember seeing one at Harbor Freight either. I read somewhere around here that if the wood is green and you debark it... you should seal the top and bottom while it dries... perhaps someone else can chime in on this?

Sandy, I wouldn't seal the wood until all the carving is done. Even if you hit wet wood (and you will if it's fresh) I typically take a break and let it air out. I have come back to it an hour later to find it completely dry and ready to cut again. No matter, if you dont mind cutting it wet then press on. You can't hurt palm wood unlike hardwoods. My experience with cabbage and sabal palm has been very good even when using freshly downed logs. Just have fun. Besides, cutting them wet conserves on the dust!!! We all know what that's about right?