Kona Club, Oakland, CA (bar)

You're right jt, I don't know the economics of bar-running; it may not be prohibitively expensive, and theft may not be that big an issue. I'm probably being overly pessimistic there. I do suspect that the economies of the 50s & 60s might have made tiki mug production a relatively less expensive thing back then than it is today. But again -- talking out of my ass. :)

What I do know is that while tiki mug = good, I've never turned my nose up at a great drink served out of a chimney, while I have turned my nose up at a mediocre drink served out of a tiki mug. But hey, personal priorities & preference -- just as Doug is entitled to run his bar how he wants, Robertiki is entitled to have his own opinions on how with some changes it could be more to his own tastes.

Jab's points are good -- there is some great music in that jukebox, you just have to ask for it. And the bartenders are very friendly, and willing to try.

Dammit, why doesn't my living room have a waterfall!?

I gotta have more waterfalls.

bigbrotiki wrote:
What I don't get is that nowadays people seem to expect and DEMAND that Tiki bars serve their cocktails in Tiki mugs!

Who is demanding "Tiki bars serve their cocktails in Tiki mugs"? I have not read everything that Robertiki has posted on TC but I don't recall him demanding tiki mugs.

Humuhumu wrote:
The thing to understand about the Kona Club is that it is what it is. ... The reason it isn't quite right as a vintage-style tiki bar is that it's not supposed to be one.

There are a few on this forum who could learn a few things from Humuhumu on how to respond to those of us needing guidance. Humuhumu is correcting while being gentle.

On 2006-02-27 17:43, ScottMcGerik wrote:
Who is demanding "Tiki bars serve their cocktails in Tiki mugs"? I have not read everything that Robertiki has posted on TC but I don't recall him demanding tiki mugs.

On 2006-02-27 11:02, Robertiki wrote:
However, my tiki experience isn't complete without a nice drink.

This is where things go awry. There are no mugs. There are no bowl. The bartender, as friendly as he was didn't have a menu, and instead handed me an employee drink recipe book and had me pick from there. The wife was served a drink in a chimney, me, my POG+vodka in a martini glass.

I believe that is what Sven was referring to.

I personally would love to have the Kona Club in my neighborhood. At least it sounds like the bartenders are accomodating in trying to make the drinks you and I want without losing their existing customers. That's a win for the owners and a win for the customers. What I don't understand is a fairly new place like Waitiki in Orlando that looks great and obviously spent a fair amount of money on decor, but really only excels at serving beer. They had no existing customers to keep happy (unless there was something else at that location that I'm not aware of). So in this case, what motivates the owner to theme the decor around tiki? Would his customers really care if the wall art was Shag or NASCAR? I don't think so. That's the perplexing thing. Maybe when the place first opened, the drinks were much better and economics forced him to cut back. I don't know. Someone enlighten me if you do.

I didn't mean to shift the focus of this thread onto another bar. I was just using my local bar as a specific example in my general inquiry. Disclaimer over.

Kono wrote:

ScottMcGerik wrote:
Who is demanding "Tiki bars serve their cocktails in Tiki mugs"? I have not read everything that Robertiki has posted on TC but I don't recall him demanding tiki mugs.

Robertiki wrote:
However, my tiki experience isn't complete without a nice drink.

This is where things go awry. There are no mugs. There are no bowl. The bartender, as friendly as he was didn't have a menu, and instead handed me an employee drink recipe book and had me pick from there. The wife was served a drink in a chimney, me, my POG+vodka in a martini glass.

I believe that is what Sven was referring to.

That is hardly a demand. I see it as an expression of dissatisfaction.

On 2006-02-27 18:23, ScottMcGerik wrote:
That is hardly a demand. I see it as an expression of dissatisfaction.

Perception is a funny thing. Sven perceived it as a demand for satisfaction, you perceived it as an expression of dissatisfaction. Go figure. Too nuanced for me.

GatorRob. Yes, Waitiki sucks. When I first spied this thread my first thought was: "At least you don't have Waitiki!"

The guy who owns Waitiki (Joel) has several bars in that Wall Street Cantina plaza type area. I've heard that he's a stand up guy, but honestly, he's all about getting the young downtown "professionals" drunk and hooked up. He's successful with that formula. The decor is just an aside, and actually it's semi-admirable that he did as good a job as he paid for. It could've been any other "flavor of the moment" type decor but he decided to do Tiki. He did a great job with the decor but the atmosphere is nil. Could've just as easily been a pirate bar or anything else.

Being that Doug doesn't post much here, I'll take a stab at it for him.

" Hmmmm. Check out that Sunset!!"

Now, this is the way I look at it.

" It's a work in progress! No worries bruddah!"

p.s.

It's like vacationing in Hanalei compared to Waikiki. And who needs a sign when there's a street address?

Arrrrr!!!

[ Edited by: revbambooben 2006-02-28 08:50 ]

Ok I am gonna ask this question of y'all. What would you rather have no tiki or some tiki even if it is what you may consider off the mark? I am not trying to be a wise guy or a smart ass. I would think that if they are making and effort and it's the only place close to you that represents, that would be better than a having to do your drinkin' at a dive or a sports bar.
Your tiki diggin' brother,
Chongolio

The wife was served a drink in a chimney, me, my POG+vodka in a martini glass.

what is this drink? what type of glass should a POG + vodka be served in?

I ordered a Gilligan's Island or some such thing (I'll admit it, Jab recommended it, Mr. Pineapple bought it, I drank it!) and it was delish!

I don't know, I kind of agree with Sven, quit yer bellyachin'
Seriously, there are 2 other threads on this board that address the "why does the sign still say Kings X" the bartender/drink menu/lack of or future of tiki mugs issue has also been discussed, at length on these threads and the work in progress aspect has also been duly noted. I think Robert hit a nerve because if he had spent a little time reading through the other threads about the Kona, he wouldn't have been disappointed. It is kind of annoying to see a place we're all pretty excited about sort of nit-picked on a new thread, when all the nit-picky stuff has been addressed elsewhere.

I guess I was too harsh, guys. Who cares about the historical and economical perspective. From now on, if a nouveaux Tiki bar does not have matching logo matchbooks and swizzle sticks, I will not consider it authentic. :lol:

Sigh. This might be a shock to some: The Book of Tiki is a piece of mythology. I resurrected a world that had fallen into ruin and made it rise up in the eye of the beholder as a perfect universe. Fact is, it never existed like that. It was flawed and frayed and...human. By picking the best imagery, artifacts and tidbits of stories from the past I created a distorted manipulation of reality, a paradise without the eternal sin. What we seek is the myth, but that is not a bad thing. We need myths to inspire us, and to make us want to create, look how far it has brought us happy "perfect paradise" seekers! :)

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2006-02-27 21:36 ]

Hey There Sven (bigbrotiki) I'm really learning how to navigate and I found you again! It's amazing that you have time with the movie and a book on Witco coming out. When is that by the way? Wendy

Wendy! Not here and not now! You are such a TC newbie :)

I know, I SHOULD be watching the last edit of the movie I am shooting to tell my director my opinion, and send the last texts to my art director in LA, and get ready for work, and...bye now!

Wow, after many an attempted thread-jack, I'll return to the point at hand.

Robertiki is a bit of a

I agree - what is a POG & vodka and why should it be served in a tiki mug?

I had some matches made for my restaurant, Here they are. I wanted them to be cool so I had them embossed. You never see that any more. Now I know why. They cost $700.00 dollars! For 1 case. And I came up with the design. So now add glasses,napkins,swizzles. It all adds up. Not to mention the time it takes to get these things made. Plus tiki stuff must fly out the door. How many swizzles did you get last time you were at trader vic's?

We had a BLAST at the Kona Club!!!!

Really - I'm amazed that anyone would complain about any new tiki bar in a world where they just don't exist any more... Bamboo Ben totally outdid himself, and the bartenders were the nicest I've ever encountered! The drinks were good (I think Hanford called them "Planet of the Apes") & the erupting volcano was really cool!

Honestly - you guys in Oakland are lucky....

More pix (and Trader Vics) here:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=18142&forum=4&vpost=217250

Ok, ok.
Mugs not all that.

The fact that there wasn't a drink menu was odd to me.

When asked for one, I was given an employee manual.

The fact that armed with mapquest, it was difficult to find without an exterior sign, not a missing sign, but a sign that lied and said the name of another establishment.

All in all, I really am glad I stopped there. The design was breathtaking, Very obvious that a lot of care was placed in constructing the place.

Robertiki - If you had searched for previous topics discussing the Kona Club you would have found previous mention of the lack of a drink menu, mugs, and signage. Please use the search tool - that's what it's there for.

The most important thing to the owner was getting the decor finished and opening the doors so that he could make a profit as soon as possible (which typically doesn't happen for a long time, if ever, with bars and restaurants). Keeping the bar closed and unused until a sign was made, mugs arrived, etc. wouldn't have made much sense, would it?

And I have to ask too: What's wrong with serving a vodka and Pomegranate in a cocktail glass?

i think all have missed the point here...

Robertiki had great eye and taste to point out the hand painted support beems.....

tappa till you drop......

hope to see some locals at Kona this week??? see different post

... the place is great...

... the bamboo guy who was working on the place helped a friend repair her vehicle during his lunch break... really went out of his way to do a good deed... need more people like that...

oh... i for got.... they do need 'chalk board paint' walls in the men's room. There a bambooish place in Laguna that has it and it comes in handy.

On 2006-02-27 22:37, Tiki-bot wrote:
I agree - what is a POG & vodka and why should it be served in a tiki mug?

Pineapple-Orange-Guava Juice, so it's kinda like a Hawaiian Screwdriver. POG's great in a Mimosa, too.

Not to flog a dead horse or what not..........

I'm going to do this right.

So many tiki bars that open today do such a half-assed job, as if a bamboo chair and a wall decoration define tiki.

That is why I mentioned much respect for the Kona Club in Oakland, they did a great job and hired craftsmen from this site.

I'll keep you posted.
Robert

Aloha Robert-

I've been doing this for almost half my life. 17 plus years. I grew up with tiki in my blood. Search and you will see( Eli not Ely Hedley ). I found TC in 02. I'm very curious how "Right" you are going to have your tiki bar, built. I'll be watching you in a positive way. Your budget must be huge! Like the old Mahi Mahi in Nashville??

Mahalos,

Bamboo Ben

p.s.

Funny thing, I do own a bar/restaurant.

Without a sign, my customers couldn't find me.

Without a menu, I couldn't point customers to spend their money.

I know that I will be subjext to the same criteria when I get my place open.

Say, good news, I think I found an old Portland TV bartender to work out the drink menu.

Hey Robertiki,
Next time you're in Oakland, come by Conga Lounge on College Ave.

Although dissed by a few TCers for not being "true tiki"- which we've never tried to be- we have kick-ass cocktails (served in Tiki mugs!! and bowls) especially under the masterful hand of former TV bartender James Shoemake....and yes, we do have custom matches, swizzle sticks,and cocktail menus. In addition, we keep the spirit of Poly Pop alive by playing theme music (except on Event nights), Tiki Bar TV and other tiki related movies on the tube and showcasing the Mai Tai as an Oakland original.

Before I get attacked here, let me point out that I'm not dissing Kona - I actually frequent it myself - just pointing out that there is an alternative for those seeking a unique Tiki experience in Oakland.

On 2006-02-28 22:44, RevBambooBen wrote:

...Mahi Mahi...

... right on!...

... eat more fish (grilled fish)...

On 2006-03-01 10:51, Robertiki wrote:

...Without a sign, my customers couldn't find me...

... a business with no sign, is a sign of no business...

Man, you guys are ruthless with Robert. It's his opinion of the bar and since this is a forum for tiki, it should be all right to air it out without getting squashed. Everyone has a certain level of expectation of what a tiki bar should be or how it should operate. I've been to a tiki bar in S.F. (that will remain nameless) that has been there for years, but serves pretty lame drinks and has a decor that could be best described as "Hawaiian outhouse" with a smell to match. Now, I don't expect to be served a drink in a tiki mug or scorpion bowl, but they should be able to make a cocktail better than I can at home or provide a little eye candy at the very least.

Here's a question for the TC community:
Just what is your threshold for what constitutes a Real Tiki Bar?

By the way Doug, the Kona ROCKS and is a real tiki bar. It just needs a sign...
:)

"seeking a unique Tiki experience in Oakland."

It's far, Oakland is just...so far.

I love everybody. Even Bong, God rest his soul.

Tiki rules, not Tiki rules.

uncle midnite

Growing up, my family owned a diner. For 20 years or more, the only sign was a painted board about 14" x 24" that leaned against the front window. The only advertising was word of mouth, which many argue is the best form of advertising there is. This was not a destination restaurant however - it was a diner located in an alley downtown. I'm not sure that a sign would have helped much. The diner was like a little secret that people wanted to share with their friends. Unfortunately, sometimes the secret is kept too long, and great little bars and restaurants don't get the attention they deserve, and are forced to close. If I were to open a restaurant or a bar, I would definitely have a sign. And a drink menu. And a sterile laboratory where I could produce my fizzy lifting drink. Of course, OSHA regulations would require that I put a cover over the sharp exhaust fan blades at the top of my tower in case that meddling Charlie and his grandfather came by...

On 2006-03-01 14:28, quickiki wrote:
Man, you guys are ruthless with Robert. It's his opinion of the bar and since this is a forum for tiki, it should be all right to air it out without getting squashed.

I agree. It's his opinion, he doesn't need it 'corrected'.

On 2006-03-02 07:45, tikifish wrote:

On 2006-03-01 14:28, quickiki wrote:
Man, you guys are ruthless with Robert. It's his opinion of the bar and since this is a forum for tiki, it should be all right to air it out without getting squashed.

I agree. It's his opinion, he doesn't need it 'corrected'.

I don't think people were being mean or "ruthless" to Robert. They are merely pointing out that this discussion is already covered in other threads and that there are as many different ideas of what constitutes a "proper" tiki bar as there are bar patrons. Generally, I think most TCers think it odd to expect a standard cocktail to be served in a tiki mug. Does it really make the place a "tiki bar" only if every drink is served in a tiki mug? No, at least not by my own standards. I think some people here are mistaking "commentary" for "criticism".

I have mixed feelings; most of the mixed drinks they made me had me feeling great!

On 2006-03-02 07:45, tikifish wrote:

On 2006-03-01 14:28, quickiki wrote:
Man, you guys are ruthless with Robert. It's his opinion of the bar and since this is a forum for tiki, it should be all right to air it out without getting squashed.

I agree. It's his opinion, he doesn't need it 'corrected'.

I see it as debate and discussion, not squashing or correction.

On 2006-02-27 18:36, Kono wrote:
GatorRob. Yes, Waitiki sucks. When I first spied this thread my first thought was: "At least you don't have Waitiki!"

The guy who owns Waitiki (Joel) has several bars in that Wall Street Cantina plaza type area. I've heard that he's a stand up guy, but honestly, he's all about getting the young downtown "professionals" drunk and hooked up. He's successful with that formula. The decor is just an aside, and actually it's semi-admirable that he did as good a job as he paid for. It could've been any other "flavor of the moment" type decor but he decided to do Tiki. He did a great job with the decor but the atmosphere is nil. Could've just as easily been a pirate bar or anything else.

GatorRob, like you, I would love to have the Kona Club in my neighborhood, Tampa has nothing! Luckily the home bar is in full effect most weekends :D

Kono and GatorRob, I must agree that Waitiki is pretty disappointing. The decor is cool, but the service and drinks are way lacking. When we went there a few months ago, a friend I was with grabbed a big blue mug for me :wink: hahaha, so that was the best part of the trip even though it was just a Libby mug. (Oh, and I think they had TF Kava bowls.)
But in the end, I would rather have Waitiki rather than nothing some times.

I don't think people were being mean or "ruthless" to Robert. They are merely pointing out that this discussion is already covered in other threads and that there are as many different ideas of what constitutes a "proper" tiki bar as there are bar patrons. Generally, I think most TCers think it odd to expect a standard cocktail to be served in a tiki mug. Does it really make the place a "tiki bar" only if every drink is served in a tiki mug? No, at least not by my own standards. I think some people here are mistaking "commentary" for "criticism".

That being said, sorry for even bringing it up. It just seemed the tone of the posts were piling on Robertiki. Some TCers like myself are new here and may or may not be totally familiar with all the threads out there. I know there's a certain TC etiquette out there regarding posting, but jeez, I hope I won't have people jumping all over me regarding not thoroughly searching previous threads.

[ Edited by: quickiki 2006-03-02 12:18 ]

On 2006-02-27 17:45, ScottMcGerik wrote:

Humuhumu wrote:
The thing to understand about the Kona Club is that it is what it is. ... The reason it isn't quite right as a vintage-style tiki bar is that it's not supposed to be one.

There are a few on this forum who could learn a few things from Humuhumu on how to respond to those of us needing guidance. Humuhumu is correcting while being gentle.

I agree with you McGerik, Humuhumu does keep us civil, at times I feel like a Lost boy listening to Wendy...

On 2006-02-27 21:08, bigbrotiki wrote:

Sigh. This might be a shock to some: The Book of Tiki is a piece of mythology. I resurrected a world that had fallen into ruin and made it rise up in the eye of the beholder as a perfect universe. Fact is, it never existed like that. It was flawed and frayed and...human. By picking the best imagery, artifacts and tidbits of stories from the past I created a distorted manipulation of reality, a paradise without the eternal sin. What we seek is the myth, but that is not a bad thing. We need myths to inspire us, and to make us want to create, look how far it has brought us happy "perfect paradise" seekers! :)

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2006-02-27 21:36 ]

And there you have it. The bottom line.

On 2006-03-01 10:51, Robertiki wrote:

Without a menu, I couldn't point customers to spend their money.

He has 2 other bars in the area and I never saw a drink menu at either. Maybe I wasn't looking. (All I know is that when I was at the other bars, they were packed).

And, about the sign/mugs.

All of you should draw and post what you think would be a good sign for the place. And, don't forget the mugs!! Maybe all the pressure would make him cave in and get them. I don't know. Just a thought.

p.s. Sven Rocks!

On 2006-03-02 21:20, RevBambooBen wrote:

On 2006-03-01 10:51, Robertiki wrote:

Without a menu, I couldn't point customers to spend their money.

All of you should draw and post what you think would be a good sign for the place. And, don't forget the mugs!! Maybe all the pressure would make him cave in and get them. I don't know. Just a thought.
p.s. Sven Rocks!

How come no one has ever come up with a menu on a waterfall?
(If you steal this idea, Unga will sue ya!)
:D

And, about the sign/mugs.

All of you should draw and post what you think would be a good sign for the place. And, don't forget the mugs!! Maybe all the pressure would make him cave in and get them. I don't know. Just a thought.

You're on Rev!
Just off the top of my head, how's about something like this:

That's beautiful, Quickiki!!!

I'm with Sven. And I'm happy to have any tiki bars at all. The huge discussions about differing details don't interest me much, because fundamentally the one thing I REALLY like in a bar or restaurant is finely-aged atmosphere, and a new bar by definition cannot have that. So if the decor's pretty and they serve decent drinks and I'm surrounded by good friends, I will by default be happy.

I do agree that the Kona needs a sign...PRONTO.

I drove by it last night and could see no sign of life. I finally peered at the door...it was slitted a little open...I could dimly see light peeking out...so I said to myself "ok, all's well."

But they literally looked closed. That CAN'T be good for business!! At least put a sandwich-board or a nice friendly Tiki outside.

Mugwise, those cheap Libbey products are pretty, darn it! I dig the glazes. I like what the Conga's got goin' on with their mugs and bowls. If they can do it, I'm sure anybody can. Heck, if Benihana can do it...:lol:

Interesting thread. And by the way. I explore a lot of online forums from time to time, and TC is BY FARRRRR the most civil of them all. It is actually troll-free, near as I can tell. Coming back here after time spent perusing, say, http://www.femalefirst.co.uk, is like returning to sanity after an extended stay in Bedlam.

xox tikivixen

'Lucky Tiki' Creator- Bobby Green's first fantastic success as a tavern owner was the Big Foot Lodge in the LA area.... not only did he get best new bar in the LA Weekly his first year out. .. he didn't have a sign for years.... and the place was packed for years... Although he finally put up signage, he never wanted to attract passers by, it seemed to be a success story for him.

word is, and as it happens, the local neighbors have gathered the torches and pitch-forks and are clamoring to the castle as we speek... bright bold signage is not on high priority for the Kona... Miss. Cravats is always at the door with something or other making the joys of tavern owning joyouse... signage will come I'm sure.... hey that was some sunset today...

On 2006-03-03 16:21, tikivixen wrote:
That's beautiful, Quickiki!!!

I do agree that the Kona needs a sign...PRONTO.

I drove by it last night and could see no sign of life. I finally peered at the door...it was slitted a little open...I could dimly see light peeking out...so I said to myself "ok, all's well."

But they literally looked closed. That CAN'T be good for business!! At least put a sandwich-board or a nice friendly Tiki outside.

I got a call from the one and only Crazy Al last night around 7 pm while he was at the "Bar with No Sign" aka Kona Club ( and/or no mugs) and he said, " geeeeeez. It's filling up!!" Then I got another call with him and Doug doing their best Arrrrrrrrrrrrr's and it sounded packed! ( around 8:00)

Maybe it's a hidden secret. I don't know. Some things work like that.

Nice sign Quickie. Although, a little on the "new side of tiki." I'm sure ( if he get's a sign at all) he'll want it to be laid back and old school looking.

Remember. The Kona Club is " The lil'Hut off the beatin road. That the locals hang out and enjoy life after work.
Where the Hula dancers hang out after their gig. A place that is laid back. With no worries. Where a owner of 2 popular bars can go and chill out with the OHANA. And, watch a Sunset or Ponder about T-Vic-B burried up the street! "

It's all good. Trust me.

Have you checked out Doug's bar/billiard hall in downtown Berkeley? It's called Thalassa but you might never know that because there is no sign, and never has been a sign since it opened in the late 90s! There is only a neon martini glass in the window. It is a big success and it's always packed.

On 2006-03-04 06:41, thejab wrote:
Have you checked out Doug's bar/billiard hall in downtown Berkeley? It's called Thalassa but you might never know that because there is no sign, and never has been a sign since it opened in the late 90s! There is only a neon martini glass in the window. It is a big success and it's always packed.

Ha!!!

Actually, Thalasa does have a sign. It's tucked behind the bar up on an old chalkboard.

And, who would ever think that a "Lodge" ( Mallard) would have Tahitian aka Tiki patios??

p.s. someone needs to take a pic and post it of that huge tiki at Thalasa. and that outrigger is a trip too! real deal or what?

Someone also needs to write a book on how to have successful bars with no signs, menus, etc.

Cheers!

I used to be a bartender at a neighborhood bar in NYC. It had no sign or menu. I met Mr cheeky half there, so in my experience very good things happen in bars without signs and menus.

cheeky half