That's just wrong! The un-Tiki thread:

On 2006-08-07 07:52, The Granite Tiki wrote:
A quick word on pockeytiki, HE WAS A HIGHSCHOOL STUDENT!! A KID!!! A young guy wanting to dive headfirst into Tiki because he was excited. Sure, maybe some of us were too patient, and maybe some of us were not patient enough, but do you really see his time here as some sort of benchmark?

A lot of people see his time here as a benchmark. The problem with Pocky Tiki wasn't that he was young, talentless and clueless or "overly enthusiastic". The problem was that there WERE people who tried to coach him, on tiki, on net etiquete, and how things operate on TC. He was completely uninterested in listening to anyone who wasn't telling him how kewl his erasers were, and he stated that to anyone who tried. That's when people got mean. Search the archives. There have been and still are plenty of people who don't get tiki, post their crap, and are completely open to being educated. They don't incite the reaction Pocky did, and the truth is, Pocky needed a time out and what happened instead was Mom and Dad telling the big kids to shut the f*ck up and play nice. And I mean that literally. That is when a lot of the RIGHT people left. I may have never contributed much to any thread other than the music thread in Beyond Tiki, but I never wasted anybody's time with crap, I supported the artists on this board with my wallet, and I never pissed anyone off at any events. I don't post here anymore, because I was told I didn't contribute anything, and it's true. But don't re-write history. This board disinigrated to U-Mod mediocracy because it was allowed to.

EDIT - I'm adding an image of un-tiki-ness, I don't want to be remembered as someone who had nothing to contribute to the discussion and just derailed threads with jackassery. Also - the term LYNCH MOB is really offensive. It denigrates and diminishes a painful era in American History and in the interest in keeping TC PC, please stop using it. It's a little over the top.

cheerios!

[ Edited by: mrs. pineapple 2006-08-08 14:11 ]

If many people see it as a benchmark, then by definition, it's a benchmark and I stand corrected.

I guess I just confused his apparent disinterest in being corrected with youthful defensiveness. It was probably a little of both.

I'm not making an attempt at revisionist history or anything like that, the truth is, I don't remember which came first, his refusal to take advice, or the bashing of him. I never saw it as important.

I certainly didn't mean to open up any old wounds either. I'm just honored to be discussing this incredible style with so many knowledgeable people.

But here I am contributing to the further derailing of a great thread, so I'll just say I'm sorry. No harm intended, no wounds meant to be opened.

On Topic:

Key Rings

[ Edited by: The Granite Tiki 2006-08-08 09:38 ]

On 2006-08-08 09:06, mrs. pineapple wrote:
The problem with Pocky Tiki wasn't that he was young, talentless and clueless or "overly enthusiastic". The problem was that there WERE people who tried to coach him, on tiki, on net etiquete, and how things operate on TC. He was completely uninterested in listening to anyone who wasn't telling him how kewl his erasers were, and he stated that to anyone who tried. That's when people got mean. Search the archives. ... the truth is, Pocky needed a time out and what happened instead was Mom and Dad telling the big kids to shut the f*ck up and play nice. And I mean that literally.

Pocky Tiki got a lot of feedback from not just the community, but Hanford, too. Don't assume that because you can't see it, it isn't happening. Pocky Tiki, after hearing from everyone and also getting a message from Hanford, dramatically decreased the amount he was posting. We were trying to work with him, and were having success. The constructive criticism was helping; the lynch mob was not. Hanford and I asked people not to stop giving Pocky their feedback, but to do it more appropriately (i.e., give off-topic feedback using other avenues like PMs or other threads, rather than derailing existing discussions -- hey, sort of like is happening here!), and for those who were either giving unconstructive criticism, or who couldn't manage to give constructive criticism without being an asshole, to stop altogether. Hanford did use the word f*ck in a private email to one person, the wife of someone he's known for about ten years, and he regretted it. It was a very frustrating time for all of us.

Now, to get this thread back on track again:

These are marketed and described all over Florida as "tiki huts," where they can be seen beside seemingly every hotel pool and in plenty of backyards. It's lovely, sure, but it's no tiki hut -- there are no tikis in it. Not even any tiki-friendly flotsam and jetsam. Nuttin'. It could be used as the start of a tiki hut, but it would be more accurately described as a chickee hut. Chickee huts were the housing used by the Seminole tribe -- quickly-built structures using thatch for roofing. An abridged excerpt from Wikipedia:

A chickee is a type of home invented by the Northern Seminole tribe. Chickee is the Seminole word for "house". The chickee style of architecture - palmetto thatch over a bald cypress log frame - was born during the early 1800s when Seminole Indians, pursued by U.S. troops, needed fast, disposable shelter while on the run. ... Some upscale homes in southern Florida feature chickee-inspired buildings as garden or poolside structures.

Chickee sounds a lot like "tiki," which is probably how the confusion started. And as stated before, it could be the foundation of a tiki bar. But without tikis, it's not a tiki hut, it's a chickee hut, and it's closer to Seminole Pop than Polynesian Pop.

I promise to not stray too far.

How incredibly sad. The upholding of Polynesian Pop culture and its origins -specifically the correcting of misunderstood bastardized interpretations of this movement- is ripping our beloved virtual community apart. I apologize if that is off topic, but it is the crux of what I have been witnessing for years now.

In general and over multiple issues and circumstances, good people who do believe are being turned off and turning away, either leaving altogether or becoming lurkers if they stay.

Back to the topic, I remember when I was a newbie on he board. Brand new with little knowledge of what aesthetic and style defined Poly Pop. I wanted to learn and belong to this knowledgeable group and start to have something to say. I wanted to start having my own finds, which is a large feat in an area bereft of legitimate tiki. So, I admit it. I'm guilty as charged for buying the mediocre crap that came out the following summer in the populous markets. It was a phase. Soon learned that it wasn't the real deal and moved on to become more discerning.

Isn't that the kind of growth we want from newcomers? Can we accomplish that with the more vocal newbies who haven't got it yet without alienating people?
A greater challenge that it seems to be, I know.

Its human nature for squabbling and disagreements to happen in the quest for the goal. Not everyone is always going to use the most correct,agreeable language. Not defending it. Just stating human nature. There will NEVER be peace and harmony. But there can be educated, civil discussion.

Is there a way for us to AGREE TO DISAGREE, but still continue discussion without the extreme ugliness that sometimes manifests itself??? Can't we accept that the other person will not always agree with us and go on?

And what do we want to do, if anything, about these imitation of Poly Pop that is productive and not detrimental to our community as a whole?

I will start on another topic questions to pose to the message board as a whole for discussion.

Not tiki!

My apologies to our new advertiser and all, but personally, I think all Bali masks are untiki.

On 2006-08-08 10:22, MachTiki wrote:
My apologies to our new advertiser and all, but personally, I think all Bali masks are untiki.

I think FlatEarthTrading would likely agree with you.

On 2006-08-08 10:18, tikigreg wrote:
Not tiki!

If you found this staute with no base or paint laying on the ground...on Arorango Beach in Rarotonga.....would you call it "tiki"???

I kinda like this new form of schizoid posting were one connects an off-topic message with an on topic subject matter to make up for it, it represents the multi-tasking that we all have to be adapt at in this day and age!

Off-topic, underlying current post:
I am just flabbergasted at some of the reactions here, they really highlight the mysterious psychology of web posting and communication, how subjectively people react to posts, what they read into them, and what their reactions reveal about themselves.

On topic post (Sorry, no visual!):
The Flat Earth Trading posts (not Trading Posts!) bring up what I call the "Poly-asian" question! Aha!:
I have posted my opinion about these new economy Tiki carvings before (off topic in bongofury's travel post!), and must state that this is were it is all about personal taste, and I am easily guilty of being too snobbish and picky.

I am not talking about carvings that are obviously Indonesian or Filipino or so, but real Tiki copies that come from Asian countries that have excellent carving traditions, yet no connection to Polynesian culture.

Though expertly carved in mostly beautiful tropical wood, to me these "Tikis" often are "off" somehow, because they are not based on the "primitive" art books that inspired American mid-century carvers. The cultural background of the Asian craftsman unconsciously creeps into their work, showing itself in too softly flowing lines instead of blocky simplicity, or in the wrong relation between the head size and the body. I have seen these in many Asian import stores in Hawaii, and unfortunately in new Trader Vic franchises also, and most of the time I can pick them out as Poly-asian. But that's just because of who I am, ya know, I wrote...oops, akh, darn...must not...grggllll

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:27 ]

For this transgression and Tiki Central blasphemy, GROG should be beaten mercilessly by Basement Kahuna with one of his carved warclubs.

( to quote Triumph the Insult Dog, "I keed, I keed!)
Sorry Humuhumu.

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:28 ]

TIKI is in the EYE of the Beholder!!!!

On 2006-08-08 12:32, WooHooWahine wrote:
TIKI is in the EYE of the Beholder!!!!

No, Tiki is a well defined, clearly drawn genre.

On 2006-08-08 12:32, WooHooWahine wrote:
TIKI is in the EYE of the Beholder!!!!

ow!!!

OH, THE HUMANITY!!!

Thanks, Sven for starting this thread (and to all who have contributed to it!). It has been some time since a multi-page discussion has kept my interet. This is very provocative brain fodder, here. We all have our own concepts and opinions and I'm very much enjoying seeing so many being ideas being shared. Congrats to all for an emotional and thoughtful exchange. And as for this:

On 2006-08-05 16:44, pablus wrote:

At least we were replaced with Ozzy.
I would have been mortified if it had been Brittany Spears or Shakira...

...or those jerks, The Mai Kai Gents.

:wink:

Yeah, those Gents are real crumbs! Just because their music evokes Hawaii's golden yesteryears and the album liner notes feature an original tropical cocktail by Jeff "Beachbum" Berry and photography by Sven Kirsten (author of The Book of Tiki) and cover design by Mr. Disney Tiki himself, Kevin Kidney they think they're the sh!t. Whatever.

Beauty, what you find personally appealing, is in the eye of the beholder. Tiki (as it is celebrated here on Tiki Central) is not an ethereal concept like beauty.

Tiki is not in the eye of the beholder, any more than Impressionism is. You may see Polynesian Pop influences in something, but it doesn't neccessarily make the item Polynesian Pop. Tiki is not a state of mind, it is a culture and an art form that takes many shapes, but is not borderless.

This not Tiki either, grasshopper!

The cliff notes version is that Mrs Pineapple tried to get PockyTiki kicked off by complaining about PokeyTiki's age and that she was worried about his underage drinking among other things. I pointed out to say whatever she wants but to be nice doing it, that she posted less about Tiki than Pockytiki had, I used the F-Word a few times, and that's when she left. I did send her an appology for being harsh with her, but I didn't appreciate her false consern for pockytiki's hypothical drinking problem. She never replied to me, so I assumed she was done with it all.

Thank you for everyone who's stuck it out on TC when it's been tough.

A lot of people see his time here as a benchmark. The problem with Pocky Tiki wasn't that he was young, talentless and clueless or "overly enthusiastic". The problem was that there WERE people who tried to coach him, on tiki, on net etiquete, and how things operate on TC. He was completely uninterested in listening to anyone who wasn't telling him how kewl his erasers were, and he stated that to anyone who tried. That's when people got mean. Search the archives. There have been and still are plenty of people who don't get tiki, post their crap, and are completely open to being educated. They don't incite the reaction Pocky did, and the truth is, Pocky needed a time out and what happened instead was Mom and Dad telling the big kids to shut the f*ck up and play nice. And I mean that literally. That is when a lot of the RIGHT people left. I may have never contributed much to any thread other than the music thread in Beyond Tiki, but I never wasted anybody's time with crap, I supported the artists on this board with my wallet, and I never pissed anyone off at any events. I don't post here anymore, because I was told I didn't contribute anything, and it's true. But don't re-write history. This board disinigrated to U-Mod mediocracy because it was allowed to.

ti·ki (tk) KEY

NOUN:
pl. ti·kis
Tiki Mythology A male figure in Polynesian myth, sometimes identified as the first man.
A wooden or stone image of a Polynesian god.
A Maori figurine representing an ancestor, often intricately carved from greenstone and worn about the neck as a talisman.

Tiki culture refers to a mid twentieth century theme used in Polynesian-style restaurants in the United States.[1]

From Wikipedia,

Tiki culture in the United States began in 1934, when Donn Beach, a.k.a. Don the Beachcomber, opened a Polynesian-themed eatery in Hollywood that served Cantonese cuisine and exotic rum punches with decor featuring flaming torches, rattan furniture, flower leis and brightly colored fabrics. Three years later[1], Victor Bergeron, better known as Trader Vic, adopted a Tiki theme for his restaurant in Oakland, which grew to become a worldwide chain.

Several years later American soldiers returned home from World War II, bringing with them stories and souvenirs from the South Pacific. Americans fell in love with their romanticized version of an exotic culture, and Polynesian design began to infuse every aspect of the country's visual aesthetic, from home accessories to architecture. Soon came integration of the idea into music by artists like Les Baxter, Arthur Lyman, and Martin Denny, who blended the Tiki idea through jazz augmented with Polynesian, Asian and Latin instruments and "tropical" themes creating the Exotica genre. This music blended the elements of Afro-Cuban rhythms, unusual instrumentations, environmental sounds, and lush romantic themes from Hollywood movies, topped off with evocative titles like "Jaguar God", into a cultural hybrid native to nowhere.

There were two primary strains of this kind of exotica: Jungle and Tiki. Jungle exotica was definitely a Hollywood creation, with its roots in Tarzan movies and further back, to William Henry Hudson's novel Green Mansions. Les Baxter was the king of jungle exotica, and spawned a host of imitators while opening the doors for a few more genuine articles such as Chaino, Thurston Knudson, and Guy Warren.

Tiki exotica was introduced with Martin Denny's Waikiki nightclub combo cum jungle noises cover of Baxter's Quiet Village. Tiki rode a wave of popularity in the late 1950s and early 1960s marked by the entrance of Hawaii as the 50th state in 1959 and the introduction of Tiki hut cocktail bars and restaurants around the continental United States.

Tiki exotica is enjoying a resurgence in popularity, and Tiki mugs and torches that once collected dust in thrift stores are now hot items, largely because of their camp value.

Ouuh man, I started a real "Problem" thread here. The web communication is a difficult one, one thing I noticed is that irony often gets lost and misunderstood in the ...eye of the beholder!

I hear Hanford's keychain rattling now, the "Thread Locked" key is in his hand, WAIT! Are there signs that level-headedness will win over insults and chip-on-shoulders?

....JEEEZ guys, you are pasting faster than e-bay snipers, I can't keep up. I wrote this post before Hanford's came up, and must now commend him for his openess.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2006-08-08 13:07 ]

Hey! I saw some cool tiki key rings! :)

Got Tiki?

Hanford, can you make a bbcode for sarcasm please? The smiley thing just doesn't make it. It is clearly needed here. It would clear up a lot of confusion.

[s]Hoity-Toit-wanna-be[/s]

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:29 ]

On 2006-08-08 13:01, The Granite Tiki wrote:
Hey! I saw some cool tiki key rings! :)

What? Where! Oh yeah, the previous page, relating to the original subject of this thread...well, we can forget about that. Or, then again, the title of this thread might be well applied to some of the Un-Tiki posts here...but which ones? Sigh, what a conundrum.

That's why I like IMAGES! Yes, they can be subjectively miss-interpreted too, but not if kept simple, like some here: A picture with UN-TIKI pasted underneath says it all.
(PLUS some explanatory writings which are neccessary sometimes)

Folks?

On 2006-08-08 12:43, Humuhumu wrote:
Beauty, what you find personally appealing, is in the eye of the beholder. Tiki (as it is celebrated here on Tiki Central) is not an ethereal concept like beauty.

Tiki is not in the eye of the beholder, any more than Impressionism is. You may see Polynesian Pop influences in something, but it doesn't neccessarily make the item Polynesian Pop. Tiki is not a state of mind, it is a culture and an art form that takes many shapes, but is not borderless.

So, I guess Huell Howser was confused when he said "I woke up today in a "Tiki" mood"???? And you could not have a "Tiki" party unless you invited a bunch tikis to attend...then only if they did attend it would be considered a "Tiki" party???

Humu....Are you saying that "Tiki" and "Polynesian Pop" are synonymous terms?

[ Edited by: SoccerTiki 2006-08-08 13:30 ]

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:29 ]

When it comes to Tiki, Huell Howser is definitely confused!

And Tiki is part of Polynesian Pop, but not all Polynesian Pop is Tiki. Simple.
I should know, I coined the term Polyn...arggh, wait...nooo....hmpfgh...

On 2006-08-08 13:22, Tangaroa wrote:

WooHoo -
you are missing the point here. We are trying to define what Tiki Central believes is tiki - whatever wikipedia, or any other online definition you can find has to say, may not be the same subject matter we are interested in.

So look that up in your "Funk and Wagnall's'!

So Tangaroa...What is your (not anyone else's) definition of "Tiki"? Thanks in advance for the lesson.

I knew I could draw weirduncletiki out of hiding with a little C-string rattling.

You want a uke-off buddy? HUNH?
IT'S ON!!!

(hopefully, you're making your way east around.... say... october... for... ohhhh... say..... a little Hukilau action?
And we'll play until our fingers bleed rum.)

And for you neubees out there that don't own the Mai Kai Gents CD - you are missing out.
The last number alone is worth the price.

That's "Tiki."

THIS is NOT:

http://tiki.oneworld.net/penguin/

Tang, are you being a wee bit sarcastic here? And where are you coming up with all those never-before-seen Tiki-crimes!? Did you keep a secret image stash somewhere?
I can tell you wanted to get those of your desktop for a while, thank you (not sarcastically!)

I can tell you how I found mine, Google search "Tiki + Beer" :)

I tell ya, this thread! I just had to Google Huell Howser!

[ Edited by: The Granite Tiki 2006-08-08 13:47 ]

On 2006-08-08 09:51, Humuhumu wrote:

These are marketed and described all over Florida as "tiki huts," where they can be seen beside seemingly every hotel pool and in plenty of backyards. ...

Here is where my confusion begins (insert pun here).... Living in Florida, I have Tiki in every part of my house including the outside. That means that I don't have the Tiki concentrated into one room like so many others here. One way is not better than the other, it is just a different way of doing it.

So, to the topic at hand, my question is not about the outer edges of Tiki but that fine line in the middle where a nice looking bar like the one Humuhumu pointed out can switch from being Chickee to being Tiki..... Does it only need to have some Ohana around it with tiki mugs full of drink? Does it need to have some sort of Polynesian mask added to the front?

To put it in the most direct way: what, exactly, would need to be done to this lovely example of a bar to make it Tiki?

On 2006-08-08 13:42, pablus wrote:

That's "Tiki."

THIS is NOT:

http://tiki.oneworld.net/penguin/

Thank you Pablus, but a word of caution. Tiki was used as a pet name way before we fell in love with it. 1930s actress Louise Brooks for example had a Pekinese named Tiki. And parents gave the name to some fortunate offspring sometimes. I once found a woman named Tiki Goldberg. Though we love it, we don't own it.

And Soccer, this thread is not about the definiton of Tiki, but the opposite. It's certainly more than that lame old litany about Pacific War veterans mixed with some Exotica music history that Wikipedia offers.

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:34 ]

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:35 ]

Dog not included! Oh you card!

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:36 ]

On 2006-08-08 13:47, Chip and Andy wrote:

On 2006-08-08 09:51, Humuhumu wrote:

These are marketed and described all over Florida as "tiki huts," where they can be seen beside seemingly every hotel pool and in plenty of backyards. ...

To put it in the most direct way: what, exactly, would need to be done to this lovely example of a bar to make it Tiki?

How about THIS (left page):

Oh damn, now I am not only being sarcastic, but definitely unhumble by abusing this thread to post pages from my new book! Will I ever learn? (plus it brings up that whole "Is Leopard print Tiki?" conundrum, oy veyh!)

Sorry guys for the joke, it's not your fault, and I know you asked an honest question:

As Humu said, Tikis, in this case in the form of masks, on the front face of the bar, or small ones on the posts would be the right start. Then Oceanic tribal shields, spears, clubs, plus fishnet floats and pufferfish lamps to flesh it out. Its not JUST Tikis, but also the right accoutrements (usually not from Accoutrements Inc.!) that make it a Tiki Bar.

Boy, that's it, I'm spent. I'm gonna stop acting like I own Tiki and answer everybody else's questions. That was enough to last for a while. Gonna check out now, have an early call time tomorrow (9 hrs time difference here in Berlin), don't make it an even bigger mess now, kids!

Tangaroa...Tiki or Un-Tiki???
a)

b)

c)

d)

e)

f)

You can just answer by letter without reposting all the pictures...Thanks In Advance!!!

Soccer... what is your hangup with getting Tang's take on what is and isn't tiki (And enough with the "thanks in advance for the lesson")? You're just calling everyone out, but that's it. There is "eye of the beholder", but then there's CRAP. Is it that hard for you to grasp or are you just stirring things up?

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:37 ]

Quote:

On 2006-08-08 14:33, bigbrotiki wrote:  
Quote:  

    On 2006-08-08 13:47, Chip and Andy wrote:  
    Quote:  

        On 2006-08-08 09:51, Humuhumu wrote:  

        These are marketed and described all over Florida as "tiki huts," where they can be seen beside seemingly every hotel pool and in plenty of backyards. ...  

    To put it in the most direct way: what, exactly, would need to be done to this lovely example of a bar to make it Tiki?  

How about THIS (left page):  

...Its not JUST Tikis, but also the right accoutrements... that make it a Tiki Bar....  

Thank you Sven. And thank you for the sneak peek into the new book...Really dig the Lancers bottle!

I am interested in hearing from others on this same question. For the bar that Humuhumu pointed out (first picture above, not the one from Sven), what is the minimum addition(s) that would make it cross over from back yard bar to Tiki bar?

[ Edited by: Humuhumu - Dangit! I meant to hit "Quote" and I hit "Edit" and goofed this post up. Many apologies! - 2006-08-08 15:36 ]

[edited by: Aaron's Akua to remove pocky-like, thread-derailing off-topic not-really-all-that-funny-anyway post.]

[ Edited by: Aaron's Akua 2006-08-08 15:39 ]

bamoo bar stools,reed fenceing onthe iron /alum. fence loose the platic cristmas tree lights. that is a start. hey is that place in the keys?