That's just wrong! The un-Tiki thread:

I'm not sure if I'm allowed a soapbox moment, but I'll take one anyway.

Sucking the fun out of Tiki?!?

I totally disagree. If you read your way through this thread with all of its twists and subplots, and came away with that as your only conclusion, then maybe you missed the point and purpose.

This thread is not telling you to stop having fun.
This thread is not even telling you that you can't enjoy a colorful plastic party city tiki.

This thread is asking you to remember what Tiki Central is all about

Tiki Central has an amazing wealth of information tucked away in all kinds of wonderful cubby holes. It invites you to explore, read, immerse and discuss with the hope that you will come to understand and love the style that so many people have spent so many hours, days and years of their lives researching and preserving. If the floors and hallways of Tiki Central become buried under a landslide of "UnTiki", then the resource that is Tiki Central becomes, for the lack of a better term, cheapened.

This thread should be remain prominently placed at the top of the General Tiki forum to serve as a reminder of this.

I'd like to pop a few quotes up from this TC posting from October 2004...interestingly right around the time I discovered Tiki, but not yet Tiki Central. I haven't posted a lot because I've been reading, learning and absorbing.

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=11162&forum=1

From the article:
"Let's get one thing straight first," Otto von Stroheim says, lunging across the table. "Tiki is not tacky. Tiki is not campy. Tiki is not kitsch."

and further down

Von Stroheim concurred, although he made distinctions in the motivations behind the escapist tendencies. "After WWII, it was a good time financially, a good time for leisure. It was an extreme escapist vision, when you could go to a bar in your gray flannel and be in the islands. I don't think the appeal now is the same sort of appeal. I see this more as an apolitical thing, a sort of base human desire to be marooned on an island and toss politics and class out the window. When everything feels out of control and frustrating, people just want to have a good time.

I agree completely. Tiki is not tacky, campy or even kitsch, and people just want to have a good time. And the two are definitely not mutually exclusive.

And finally...if you think that Party City Tiki is Tiki Style, and you can bring in sound reasoning and want to discuss it, by all means start up a thread, put on your fireproof pants and have fun. If you just want to say Party City Tiki is Fun...and let me have my fun! Well, you are entitled to that, but maybe this isn't the place to fight that fight.

mahalo for the use of the soapbox.

There is a Ozymandius-like short poem ... I can't remember the title or the author, but the poem, in its entirety, follows ...

Prayer flags
Battle flags
No difference to the wind

which could be amended to ...

Authentic tiki
Plastic tiki
No difference to the wind

No real point in the above -- just offering yet another counter-perspective, if anything, to show us how different us humans are from the wind.

Vern

Is this what someone meant when they started this topic?




Just curious.

On 2006-08-10 15:36, The Granite Tiki wrote:
What about Quirks's Exception?

I believe that Quirk's only applies when the mention of Nazis and/or Hitler is used to intentionally end a discussion. I don't believe that applies here.

On 2006-08-10 16:05, Heath wrote:
Is this what someone meant when they started this topic?

Absolutely! I'm not sure if I should feel bad for that thing, or set it on fire to put it out of its misery.
That thing is like, well, I don't know, it's like broken dreams.
What do you guys think of this one? A tiki ouija board? What happens if your spirit guide has nothing more to say than "Aloha"?

Heath wins.

On 2006-08-10 14:42, Suffering Bastard in Maine wrote:
Thank you ToonToonz for invoking Godwin's Law.

..sbim

You are welcome! I was hoping somebody would catch it! It was the logical progression of this thread. :)
Hmmmm....how about if I draw a Tiki with a Hitler mustache on it....would that be unTiki?

Aha! Quirks's Exception is indeed in play! :)

I found this picture on e-bay a couple of years ago. I saved it because it puts a smile on my face everytime I see it.

They were listed as "Original Alabama Tikis".

So if I may ask this perposterous question without personal feelings or witty responses, only logical responses, please....Where will the Party City tiki be at in 20-30 years from now? As much as i do not like the crap, it is probably the most printed and widely used tiki design in existence and will most likely go down in someones history books 20-30 years from now...Does anyone else foresee this?

I might point out that the whole brightly colored carving thing is from a tried and true classic maker of tiki, Orchids of Hawaii. Like this mask at the Omni Hut, when you see this type of display in an old bar, you can bet it's Orchids. So, it's not exactly un-tiki. It may be vintage tiki, just, kinda ugly.

You are right, they are part of Tiki style because they are part of it's history...just the down end of it. And that they are from "Orchids of Hawaii" is no excuse. As mentioned before, even OA, and many classic Tiki Temples, like the Kahiki in Columbus, are guilty of clown-painting Tikis in the 80s, Orchids didn't invent it. It simply was part of the devolution of the style.

Here's a little something for the UN-tiki part of this thread: http://www.tikijims.com

and from inside the store......

And in the links page it says it is a proud member of the Parrothead Ring.

GROG know this qualifies as UN-tiki, but can you also say that something is ANTI-tiki, and does this qualify?

On 2006-08-10 14:41, bigbrotiki wrote:

On 2006-08-10 14:13, Unga Bunga wrote:

On 2006-08-10 14:09, bigbrotiki wrote:
BK, have you ever thought about the fact that since the Kon Tiki Paradise Room is no more, it has joined the ranks of all the great Tiki Temples in history that are no more, and thus in a sense has become truly Tiki?

So, is this the "formula" were shooting for Sven?

No, but honestly, I just thought of that when I saw all those amazing pictures, and thought it might be a bittersweet condolence to BK.

To me personally, another facet of a what attracts me to classic Tiki style is the sense of temps perdu. I dig melancholic ancestral remembrance, and fighting the lost fight, well voiced in this quote about the last unrepentant Samurai:

They were like autumn lightning: An empty promise of rain, falling unheeded on fields already bare.

Thanks, Unga and Bigbro...A lot of good times had in that basement. It was a little slice of the dream. Those smiles on those good friends say a thousand words and are irreplaceable. I want to rebuild a Bionic version again someday...better, stronger, faster...Those smiles on those good friends say a thousand words.

[ Edited by: Basement Kahuna 2006-08-10 19:40 ]

That Tiki Jim's website almost literally hurts to look at. I wanna burn the place down while the proprietor is inside. I'm not usually a violent man...

Ah hell, I am not trying to get sucked into this, just have to say if anyone is an EXPERT on tiki and know what he is talking about, it is Bigbro( Sven K ) ! PERIOD!

So many interesting points of view here. Like it, hate it - this has to be one of the most honest and forthright threads ever on TC. So many people whom I would consider to be experts have weighed in, but it's also interesting how many have not... And as with most controversial topics, speculation has already begun as to when Hanford will lock the thread. Somehow, I don't think that will happen with this one. Let's hope not.

Tom Slick asked:

"So if I may ask this perposterous question without personal feelings or witty responses, only logical responses, please....Where will the Party City tiki be at in 20-30 years from now? As much as i do not like the crap, it is probably the most printed and widely used tiki design in existence and will most likely go down in someones history books 20-30 years from now...Does anyone else foresee this?"

I hate to attempt to answer a question with a question, but it begs the question, what was being sold in party goods stores 20 to 30 years ago and being used at parties, and is it now recognized as cool?

I think the majority of what we hold as great Tiki were well made objects, frequently found in somewhat expensive restaurants and lounges. I don't think any of the party supplies used at my 10th birthday party in 1976 are now considered collectible. At least not to the degree we're discussing.

I'm guessing the luau party gear found at Party City, IParty, or whatever Party Supply store you might have locally is probably similar to the luau party gear available back then, and just as disposable.

So, (finally getting to an answer) I don't think the party city style tiki will wind up in anyone's history book, any more than the paper hats worn at my 10th birthday party have. ( I suppose someone is now going to post a link to a hardbound coffee table book celebrating the paper hats of the 70s) :)

Thanks Sven for your answer. GROG is sorry GROG earned a D- for part of GROG's post (GROG was shooting for a D+), but if it helped educate everybody else as well, then it was worth it. (Maybe GROG can do extra-curricular work to bring up GROG's grade) It would probably help too if GROG could read (GROG just like looking at all the pretty pictures in BOT, and thankfully there are ALOT)

GROG was wondering about the tikiness of Damons since it is a bit barron of tiki carvings, so GROG glad you answered that before GROG inquired.

Hope to see BK's incredible room rise again to the splendor and glory it once was, and hopefully shall be again.

We need more pics of tiki atrocities. GROG have some more, but can't post from this computer, so maybe in the morn.

Mahalo

On 2006-08-10 22:06, The Granite Tiki wrote:
I hate to attempt to answer a question with a question, but it begs the question, what was being sold in party goods stores 20 to 30 years ago and being used at parties, and is it now recognized as cool?

I'm sorry for not making my question more clear, as I meant to say about the actual image used, not the accessories that it is printed on. The colorful "tiki" image that is used on the items that most of the big party stores carry seems to be the same one. As much as I despise the Party City tiki, I can see it being written about 20-30 years from now, and someone actually finding out who originated the design through an interview. Anotherwords, I think it could catch a story in someones tiki book years from now regardless what anyone thinks about the tiki, because technically if you went to any party supply store looking to throw a luau and were not in the whole tiki-esque scene, thats what you would wind up finding and using(for the most part)! And unfortunately, there are way more uneducated tiki people vs the "scholars" and knowledgeable ones here at TC.

mummified-monkey-skeleton-zombie,maybe.....Tiki....NO

Edited to add the hyphens!

[ Edited by: Tom Slick 2006-08-11 00:33 ]

Tiki totem pole! Yes! And inflatable, too.

Hey, what could be more tiki than a nice cold margarita?

NOT!!

I think that guy on the left is super-nova studster "musician" Yanni!
Except Yanni's a little more wooden.

Everyone else gets to (or has to) repeat themselves, so why not me?

I really liked the idea of this thread A LOT and I'd really like to see it done again in a parallel thread with the original intent kept in tact: Horrible things labeled as "Tiki". Comments would pertain to the actual posted images.

SO: Why not a fresh start with the images posted here (the ones posted not for the purpose of makin' a dig at someone) reposted in that thread? What I mean is: An Un-Tiki thread, full of images of stuff that isn't Tiki but claims to be so. Oh! Yuh know what would be great? If there was another thread, sorta like this one, with un-Tiki images but without all the debate and politics! Or we could start a new thread mostly like this one, but that just focuses on stuff called Tiki that clearly isn't Tiki or is just plain awful. Maybe instead of this thread there could be another thread just for the images of non-Tiki things and comments on those images? Here's an idea: All the images of non-Tiki things posted here could be re-posted in a separate thread, a thread mainly for the purpose of posting just non-Tiki images. Or we could have a thread, also labeled Un-Tiki, where people post images of things...

On 2006-08-11 06:49, woofmutt wrote:
Everyone else gets to (or has to) repeat themselves, so why not me?

I really liked the idea of this thread A LOT and I'd really like to see it done again in a parallel thread with the original intent kept in tact: Horrible things labeled as "Tiki". Comments would pertain to the actual posted images.

SO: Why not a fresh start with the images posted here (the ones posted not for the purpose of makin' a dig at someone) reposted in that thread? What I mean is: An Un-Tiki thread, full of images of stuff that isn't Tiki but claims to be so. Oh! Yuh know what would be great? If there was another thread, sorta like this one, with un-Tiki images but without all the debate and politics! Or we could start a new thread mostly like this one, but that just focuses on stuff called Tiki that clearly isn't Tiki or is just plain awful. Maybe instead of this thread there could be another thread just for the images of non-Tiki things and comments on those images? Here's an idea: All the images of non-Tiki things posted here could be re-posted in a separate thread, a thread mainly for the purpose of posting just non-Tiki images. Or we could have a thread, also labeled Un-Tiki, where people post images of things...

Wow, I think you had about 12 ideas in there! But, actually, I don't feel that any of them are really necessary. In a couple of years from now, when someone new to tiki discovers this thread, they're going to get all the "un-tiki" images plus all the discussions (sometimes heated) and struggles that they generated. Looking at these images, I think future tiki lovers are going to ask the same questions about what is and is not tiki and why. So I think all the back and forth discussion and struggles archived here are important to the story, along with the pictures, about our virtual community and what it is we call tiki.

Thanks, Unga and Bigbro...A lot of good times had in that basement. It was a little slice of the dream. Those smiles on those good friends say a thousand words and are irreplaceable. I want to rebuild a Bionic version again someday...better, stronger, faster...Those smiles on those good friends say a thousand words.

I would also point out that much of the Kon-Tiki Paradise Room existed before BK knew there was a Tiki Central or other weirdos like himself who did such things as build home tiki bars and mix old cocktails... Perfect tiki aesthetic drawn from the antiques.

On 2006-08-10 17:16, ToonToonz wrote:
You are welcome! I was hoping somebody would catch it! It was the logical progression of this thread. :)
Hmmmm....how about if I draw a Tiki with a Hitler mustache on it....would that be unTiki?

On 2006-08-10 17:51, The Granite Tiki wrote:
Aha! Quirks's Exception is indeed in play! :)

Yes yes. Intentional mention of nazis solely for the purpose of invoking Godwin's law does not end the discussion. Maybe that's why no moderators have locked the topic yet? They must be able to read our minds and determine our ulterior motives!
And to keep on topic:

Awww Tikijosh, you beat GROG to posting those masks (couldn't post pics last night from GROG's home computer). GROG need to raise GROG's grade point average, since GROG got a D-, so GROG was going to post this for extra credit.

So, to help raise GROG's GPA, GROG submit these:

From Lamps Plus:

Tiki costume:

This is a sticker:

[ Edited by: GROG 2006-08-11 09:48 ]

Tiki costume:

That is hilarious and scary at the same time!

"Trick or treat!"

"Oh, hi little Johnny! And what are you supposed to be?"

"I'm a Don the Beachcomber Zombie with an ounce of 151 proof rum! Limit two to a customer!"

Tiki Costume???????????????????????????

AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr roooooooouuuuuuuuuuuubbbbor jksdkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkgggggggnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrpstttttttt!

I just threw up :)

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - fixed word wrap - 2006-08-12 16:54 ]

On 2006-08-11 09:47, GROG wrote:
So, to help raise GROG's GPA, GROG submit these:

Tiki costume:

That is simultaneously the most fascinating and revolting thing I have seen! Luckily I am at work viewing this, so there was no concern about shooting Mai-Tai out of my nose when the laughter began....

I just can't drag my eyes away from the Cocktail Umbrella hat........

tiki central long ago became a big giant tiki ass-kissing festival. OOOHH OOOOOOOH I HAVE MORE VINTAGER TIKIS THAN YOU, RIGHT RIGHT!???

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:45 ]

Dress your dog up like a Tiki! Er...person that collects tikis or...whatever!
It´s a real product I did not Photoshop it.

I forgot one for the female dogs. (Has this been posted before?)

On 2006-08-04 15:32, Tangaroa wrote:

On 2006-08-04 12:06, bigbrotiki wrote:

...but what I was also hoping for in this thread were more visual examples of the abuse of the term "Tiki", so that these can be denounced as such, for the advancement of newbies, and the satisfaction of the elders (and the amusement of all).

Are you really sure you want us to do that here, Bigbro? Because there are quite a few recent TC threads with photos that meet that criteria beautifully...

You were right Tangaroa!

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:46 ]

On 2006-08-11 10:50, Tangaroa wrote:
This thread has been hijacked by the "funmeisters"... the folks who choose not to get it, basically the army of Pocky all grown up!

Wow. I totally disagree. I don't think this thread has been hijacked at all. I think that the discussion has gotten away from Sven's original intent, but there are still plenty of un-tiki pictures being posted. I don't see anyone posting in this thread that chooses "not to get it".

On 2006-08-11 10:50, Tangaroa wrote:
For me, fun is doing it right & celebrating what most of us have come here to learn more about.

Great! I personally have a lot of fun seeing a lot of the new tiki finds that people discover, especially posts on now defunct tiki temples. For others, however, fun is not about picking it apart, dissecting every little thing. Maybe that's why there are people complaining that this thread isn't enjoyable, though I imagine the discussion is probably inducing more of the complaints than the pictures. I don't think that a complaint means they "choose not to get it". It might just be that complaining about the latest Party City monstrosity may not be their idea of celebrating polynesian pop. And I can understand that.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming:
Well, I have to bring this one up since no one else has. Since the Tiki Room is tiki, what about this:

Does a perversion of the Tiki Room still count? The original was so much better. I'm glad the one in Anaheim hasn't changed, at least not since I was there last.

[ Edited by: TikiJosh 2006-08-11 11:27 ]

Well - I guess if nothing else, it has been amusing for all ( a total work distraction this week) - I better stop posting on this thread!

You were leading the way with your "un-tiki" posts. Don't stop now, that's what this thread was originally about.

Tangaroa - Visited the link at the bottom of your posts. Is it your website(?), because I like the Tiki characters you drew! :)

Tangaroa Tiki 1

Tangaroa Tiki 2
(Tiki guy down at the bottom by the address.)

:drink:

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:47 ]

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:47 ]

Sometimes, batteries ARE included.

The E.T.R. Under New Management is perhaps THE most un-tiki thing posted so far.

Was just at D.W. last month, and oh what an attrosity it is.

Iago & the tiki birds singing Miami Sound Machine.

Ugh!

Love 'em!

[ Edited by: Chip and Andy 2009-06-05 18:25 ]

On 2006-08-11 12:13, Tangaroa wrote:
Yes, the "under New Management" show is generally believed to have killed the vibe of the original (and to a lesser extent, the Tokyo "Catch The Fever" rehab, which I am embarrased to say I worked on as well...)

I'm unfamiliar with the "Catch the Fever" Tokyo version, but the title is conjuring some shudder-worthy images in my mind. It's too bad really. The original is so cool.

Here's something just for Tangaroa, since he posted the other Corona images:

Sorry. The devil made me do it.

[ Edited by: TikiJosh 2006-08-11 12:53 ]

Un-tiki (and Deeeeeeeeeelicious!) Nothing says tiki like mini smoked sausage sticks!

On 2006-08-11 12:11, Tangaroa wrote:

On 2006-08-11 11:39, ToonToonz wrote:
Tangaroa - Visited the link at the bottom of your posts. Is it your website(?), because I like the Tiki characters you drew! :)
Tangaroa Tiki 1
Tangaroa Tiki 2
(Tiki guy down at the bottom by the address.)

Oooop! Yeah... those are mine...

The second one is a pretty bad drawing though - but thanks for the kudos. Ironically enough, I do hardly any tiki related art. I think I'm too close to it!

So how would you classify your art? Tiki or un-Tiki?

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:48 ]