That's just wrong! The un-Tiki thread:

If a child were to draw a traditional tiki badly(or just in a child-like way), I would not call that un-tiki.

On 2006-08-11 14:16, Tangaroa wrote:
Since I rarely have tikis in my art (and it is generally work for hire, as opposed to creating something & trying to get someone on the web to purchase it), I don't think my work qualifies in this discussion.

ToonToonz - where would you say your art falls? Tiki or un-tiki?

Interesting that you get to put your Tiki art work off limits from the discussion - you are not letting others. (How do you know the Tiki art displayed in this thread was not "art for hire" like you do - which most likely it was. Some company hired an artist and told them they wanted a gawdy, funky-looking Tiki cartoon guy for their product - just like you drew but you say doesn´t qualify for this discussion.)

People buy my art in galleries (and via the "gasp" lowly internet). Try it - it is not as easy as you imply. (I do both - art for hire and art in the gallery - so I think I have a bit of experience on how the art biz works.)
I saw a few sketches and computer drawings on your website, but no paint on canvas paintings. Did I miss them? I would sure like to see your paintings. How about tiki carvings, maybe?

And regarding your question about my art if I think it is Tiki or un-Tiki.
To be honest I do not really care whether it is "Tiki" or "un-Tiki" or even think about it. I paint what I like to paint and let others put it in categories - if they feel they have to.
I paint lots of different things and never wonder is it a "Wine" or and "un-Wine" painting? Is this a "Woman" or an "un-Woman" painting? Is this a "Landscape" or "un-Landscape" painting?
I guess artists that think/paint that way fit into the category of photorealist or realist-type painters. And that ain´t me! :)
And when I buy Tiki items it never, ever crosses my mind to ask "Is this Tiki or un-Tiki?". I buy what I like; I am not building a religous shrine.

Here´s a challenge - draw us what you think is a Tiki and post it here for all of us to judge.

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:48 ]

On 2006-08-11 17:04, ToonToonz wrote:

I paint lots of different things and never wonder is it a "Wine" or and "un-Wine" painting?

I would consider anything with White Zin or Chardonnay to be an Un-Wine painting...

that said, I think it's time to revisit an old favorite:

Taste The Rainbow

-Z

Yuh know what would be a great idea? If, like, all the un-Tiki images were posted in a new thread...Oh, wait, that can't be done cuz civility and order are apparently impossible on Tiki Central due to the U-Moding and the Hey Dewding and Tiki being a fun way to not have fun.

But at least now we all know this: Hanford-the-Hippie is responsible fer all the right people killin' Tiki.

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:48 ]

Tangaroa - thanks for promoting my art! :)
It´s all sold - sorry you can´t have any.

Can I buy some of yours?
[images removed -Images removed at request of Tangaroa to Tiki Central.]

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - Image removed at artist's request - 2006-08-12 16:06 ]

[ Edited by: ToonToonz 2006-08-13 06:59 ]

Sorry, forgot your Tiki art:
[image removed - Images removed at request of Tangaroa to Tiki Central.]

Kind of looks like mine! Like the arrow nose! Very tiki!

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - Image removed at artist's request - 2006-08-12 16:06 ]

[ Edited by: ToonToonz 2006-08-13 06:58 ]

Wow! Nice stuff Tang... I never knew you had such I diverse palette.

Hey Tang I like your art work a lot more than toonz.

I like Tangs work better than mine, too! :)
I hope he posts more of his art over at the "Creating Tiki" thread!

i like pie.

Pissing match aside, this was an interesting thread (till about yesterday). Have fun guys.

On 2006-08-11 21:05, Aaron's Akua wrote:
Pissing match aside, this was an interesting thread (till about yesterday). Have fun guys.

Couldnt agree more.

And....

On 2006-08-10 14:23, ookoo lady wrote:

On 2006-08-10 13:36, bigbrotiki wrote:

...we have to accept the fact that some folks simply don't "get it", or better put, seem to CHOOSE to not "get it", while some do.

Sad but true.

AMEN. What's with all the confused, argumentative, defensive posts? What about this is so hard for some people to understand or accept? That's the "it" that I don't get.

On 2006-08-11 22:09, rodeotiki wrote:

On 2006-08-11 21:05, Aaron's Akua wrote:
Pissing match aside, this was an interesting thread (till about yesterday). Have fun guys.

Couldnt agree more.

And....

:www.constipationadvice.ie/images/treatments-senokot-syrup.jpg

[ Edited by: RevBambooBen 2006-08-11 22:16 ]

Constipation or irregularity, is a condition of the digestive system where a person (or animal) experiences hard feces that are difficult to eliminate; it may be extremely painful, and in severe cases (fecal impaction) lead to symptoms of bowel obstruction. Obstipation refers to severe constipation. Causes of constipation may be dietary, hormonal, a side effect of medications, and anatomical. Treatment is with a change in dietary habits, laxatives, fiber therapy, enemas, and rarely surgery.

Ok and now after reading all this thread, and Bamboo Bens last one I think I gotta go to the Bathroom now.
thanks Ben,
you always clear evrything up.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

[ Edited by: bigtikidude 2006-08-11 23:46 ]

In closing, I really want to thank Tangaroa for his valiant, concise, and to the point posts, they made me feel less like "autumn lightning". Web communication sometimes seems to reflect the Babylonian curse, even if people seemingly speak the same language. Tang, you were almost always right on, even if a little hard-line sometimes. Good job.

And thanks to the honest information seekers here, silly or not.

Maybe this thread really should rest now, and when new UnTiki imagery surfaces, the finder should just start a new one (a la "Bad Tiki" or so), kinda like woofmut suggested, with simply the image and a brief explanatory caption (and maybe with a subjectivity disclaimer)...there is just too much between the lines baggage here.

From Cool Hand Luke,"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Do you think this thread would have been more appropriately titled the "unpoly-pop thread"?

It was an interesting thread to say the least. I've learned alot about some TC'rs who posted here. I was thinking maybe if this site was called Hanfordstikishack.com, and not the generalized tikicentral.com, if this domain would have the same "problems" with parrotheads,and people thinking that the enchanted tiki room at disneyland is true tiki? I've learned that there are alot of members here who are quick to judge others, and I know I personally didnt sign up here to debate polypop from traditional to vintage tiki. I came here because it was a great place to see artists new pieces, Discuss old places of interest like Enchanted Village in Buena Park(example),Find out about events that I could help support, and see pictures of events I could not attend. Instead I see piss flying everywhere on this thread and a few others, and I can tell you , it's not always the centralite members. Some of the Grand Members are responsible for snowballing the original topics into much bigger issues. This post was about what was considered "Un-Tiki" and i don't think Sven was looking for TCrs to post about other Tiki central members "tiki Bars & Backyards". This post should not have gone that route period! I found plenty of "Un-Tiki MERCHANDISE" on google and didn't have to go insulting other TCrs ideas of what tiki is. I will continue to read posts here and there, but I'm done with peoples egos and the whole attitude that "mine is better than yours". In the real world, I dont give a rats ass what anyone here thinks about what "I" like. I was born and raised in the beach cities of Southern California, and I am now 35 years of age. I do not need "transplants" telling me what their idea of tiki is because they read a book about it somewhere.

i am a lurker here, but spent the time yesterday reading through the 20 plus pages of this thread.

a couple of comments and then i will go back to lurker status.

1. in order to fulfill the requirements of bigbrotikis and Tangaroas definition of tiki, tiki central should cancel the advertising of all companies that advertise on tiki central because they are selling "untiki" things that do not fit into bigbrotikis and Tangaroas strict view of tiki.

2. companies that advertise on tiki central should consider cancelling their advertising here. if you listen to bigbrotiki and Tangaroa (and a few others) you are not welcome here.

3. the remarks in this forum by one member "Tangaroa" were very insulting, deragatory, mean and uncalled for. ecspecially his vile sliming yesterday.
   according to the rules at tiki central:
   "Be polite. Please refrain from insults and name-calling. Be polite even if someone is insulting you or someone else "started it"."

tangaroa seriously violated those rules many times in this thread.

4. if i were an carver, painter, or mug maker (which i am not andenvy all with the talent and courage to make and exhibit their art) i would seriously consider not posting at tiki central any more.

bigbrotiki (what an appropriate name - big brother) and his hatchettboy Tangaroa have announced their jihad against anything that does not fit their strict definition of tiki. (bigbrotiki wants to start an "untiki" thread to warn us all of something that doesn´t fit his little idea of tiki art.)
perhaps someone should start up a new website for artists to show their tiki art and not have to worry about the witchhunt here at tiki central by bigbrotiki and Tangaroa against anything that does not meet their litmus test for tiki art. at anytime you could be subjected to the immature, unfair and unwarranted ranting that tangaroa did yesterday against a tiki central artist.

now i will go back to lurking.

susan rice

Why is it when some people express their opinions on anything, some other people describe it as a witch hunt?

This thread goes hand in hand with the "Celebrating classic and modern Polynesian Pop" page that the message board's management put up!

And except for a few senseless debates brought about by some people's anger that the thread even existed, this thread successfully drove a point home regarding the big question "Why are we here?"

I don't understand the anger. I don't understand the hurt feelings.

How can someone else's opinion about what is Tiki hurt you? Or cause you to denounce a thread that no one forced you to read?

It seems like there are people who are angry at BigBro for having an opinion on Poly Pop, or for voicing it on a website dedicated to Poly Pop!

What's wrong with saying "I don't think something belongs here"?

Isn't that what some are doing right now regarding this thread???

it's not a witch hunt, it's the free flowing exchange of opinions.

No pictures (to my knowledge) of un-tiki things have been banished or deleted from the site.

I simply don't understand how people can fault the guy who wrote "The BOT" for having opinions regarding the topic! Or are they faulting him for voicing them???

I loved this thread, I've read it all, and I'm not angry.

:)

Woofmutt, I'd like to apologize because earlier I pooh-pooh'ed your call for a separate parallel thread that contained only "un-tiki" images. I did that because at the time I thought the discussions going on here were generally helpful in educating us all on the origins of what we on TC call tiki. The discussions were often off-topic, but I thought generally worth reading as a "value-add" to the images. While I still feel the same way about some of those earlier discussions, I've sadly watched this thread degrade into a childish ego-driven pissing contest. Oftentimes I was in agreement with certain individuals doing the pissing, but the mean-spirited "take that!" tone to the posts often drowned out the message.

Hanford, if I could put a suggestion in the "suggestion box"... please remove the link to this thread from the About page. It no longer serves it intended purpose of showing by example what this site is NOT about. Unless of course you include all the nasty postings, which I believe is also NOT what this site is about. I am now in Woofmutt's camp for wanting an image-only version of this thread, without all the noise. THAT is the thread that should be linked to from the About page.

On 2006-08-12 11:55, nooganaaga wrote:
i am a lurker here, but spent the time yesterday reading through the 20 plus pages of this thread.

a couple of comments and then i will go back to lurker status.

1. in order to fulfill the requirements of bigbrotikis and Tangaroas definition of tiki, tiki central should cancel the advertising of all companies that advertise on tiki central because they are selling "untiki" things that do not fit into bigbrotikis and Tangaroas strict view of tiki.

2. companies that advertise on tiki central should consider cancelling their advertising here. if you listen to bigbrotiki and Tangaroa (and a few others) you are not welcome here.

3. the remarks in this forum by one member "Tangaroa" were very insulting, deragatory, mean and uncalled for. ecspecially his vile sliming yesterday.
   according to the rules at tiki central:
   "Be polite. Please refrain from insults and name-calling. Be polite even if someone is insulting you or someone else "started it"."

tangaroa seriously violated those rules many times in this thread.

4. if i were an carver, painter, or mug maker (which i am not andenvy all with the talent and courage to make and exhibit their art) i would seriously consider not posting at tiki central any more.

bigbrotiki (what an appropriate name - big brother) and his hatchettboy Tangaroa have announced their jihad against anything that does not fit their strict definition of tiki. (bigbrotiki wants to start an "untiki" thread to warn us all of something that doesn´t fit his little idea of tiki art.)
perhaps someone should start up a new website for artists to show their tiki art and not have to worry about the witchhunt here at tiki central by bigbrotiki and Tangaroa against anything that does not meet their litmus test for tiki art. at anytime you could be subjected to the immature, unfair and unwarranted ranting that tangaroa did yesterday against a tiki central artist.

now i will go back to lurking.

susan rice

So what I'M getting out of this is either you were mad Tangaroa didn't take ya to the prom years ago OR you're a BIG ToonToonz art collector.........:P

I don't really think I should post a strong opinion either way on what I think is tiki or un-tiki. I'm not an expert on tiki of any kind and I have certainly posted things early on, including my own art, that I look on now with a bit of embarrassment.

I do know that I think this thread has been one of the most enlightening and informative that I have ever read on TC. I did not feel threatened or offended at any time. I'm glad Hanford has let it run it's course.

I will definitely think a bit longer and deeper when I begin new projects, and there is a bit of urban archeology I'm in the middle of that was inspired by this thread.

Thanks all!

On the first subject of this thread...

Not tiki:

Tiki or Not?
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=20571&forum=18

irony - you go to bigbros website and he has links to a couple of the most commercialized, "untiki" artists (using his idea of untiki) out there.

kooch-e-koo

shag

takedown those untiki links bigbro!

i wonder where all the artists, carvers, mug makers that post in the tiki central creating tiki forum section are - why aren´t they speaking up about their (undoubtably, by bigbrotikis standards,) UN -tiki art?
flounder. little lost tiki, vantiki,Raffertiki, sam gambino, others where are you????

oh cooool, don´t visit these tiki central advertisers - very untiki there....

stuff-o-rama

Mask from Bali~Tiki wall hanging
flat earth trading

[ Edited by: nooganaaga 2006-08-12 16:05 ]

On 2006-08-12 11:55, nooganaaga wrote:

2. companies that advertise on tiki central should consider cancelling their advertising here. if you listen to bigbrotiki and Tangaroa (and a few others) you are not welcome here.

susan rice

Susan, I sell kitsch. That's right. I said it. Kitsch! Proud of it too! My store is about fun and having a laugh. I carry both tiki and un-tiki because in business all things are exploited and you have to supply people with what they ask for. If I made buying decisions solely based on what I think is cool I'd be out of business. I will continue to advertise here whether people want to buy from me or not. Because it's about freedom of choice. I have met some really great people through this message board who have never spent a dime in my establishment, I don't expect them to. If they never did I wouldn't think any less of them. I have had some great conversations with people I have never met. I am supporting a web site to continue to be online so I have a place to go when I need a break from my daily life routine. Whether or not people buy from me is not why I advertise or spend my advertising money here, I am supporting a cause.

Please don't judge people here based on one thread. If you hang out long enough (and I hope that you do) you will find some really creative, funny and warm people here, even if we all agree to disagree on what we like.

---

i wonder where all the artists, carvers, mug makers that post in the tiki central creating tiki forum section are - why aren´t they speaking up about their (undoubtably, by bigbrotikis standards,) UN -tiki art?
flounder. little lost tiki, vantiki,Raffertiki, sam gambino, others where are you????

Uhh..because unlike you they don't have split personality's and aren't schizo....Who are you this week? Nooganaaga? ToonToonz? What is this strange love you have for vowels in your name?

Let's keep this topic on-topic ... let's drop the personal attacks and keep it objective. If you feel you need to include another member's possessions or creations that has appeared on the site, please do it with respect for the poster/creator and objectivity to the subject matter.

On 2006-08-12 15:16, finkdaddy wrote:

On the first subject of this thread...

Not tiki:

Not tiki, but a nice piece to be shared with the Creating Forum folks.

Nooganaaga, in the Creating Forum we share a lot of stuff. Tips, techniques, DVD's even. We send pieces of wood to each other through the mail and arrange local get togethers. We also share some non-tiki stuff as well as tiki stuff - because we are a pretty tight bunch.

On 2006-08-12 16:00, nooganaaga wrote:

i wonder where all the artists, carvers, mug makers that post in the tiki central creating tiki forum section are - why aren´t they speaking up about their (undoubtably, by bigbrotikis standards,) UN -tiki art?
flounder. little lost tiki, vantiki,Raffertiki, sam gambino, others where are you????

I've wondered why more of the regulars (and not just the artists) haven't chimed in here. But there's no reason to call people out. I'm sure everyone here has seen this thread (who couldn't), and would have voiced their opinion if they felt stongly enough about it to do so. I wouldn't fault anyone who has held their tongue one way or the other. These types of posts have a history of turning nasty, as this one has in certain ways. It is a worthwhile discussion, and it would be good to see it come back ON TOPIC.

A-A

Hey Tom Slick...

See if you can find yourself some paragraphs down there on those SoCal beaches.

i wonder where all the artists, carvers, mug makers that post in the tiki central creating tiki forum section are - why aren´t they speaking up about their (undoubtably, by bigbrotikis standards,) UN -tiki art?
flounder. little lost tiki, vantiki,Raffertiki, sam gambino, others where are you????

I must admit that I have JUST NOW seen this thread! I've been too busy anymore to surf anywhere else but in Creating Tiki now and then. To answer the question, tiki art is PART of my art. I don't take myself, or tiki, too seriously (sorry!). I paint what I think would be fun to paint - that, I do take seriously. Very little of my art has any serious message that I try to get across other than to provoke a little humor sometimes. I like to paint crap that reminds me of things I remember when I was a kid. I really like the humor in ToonToonz stuff, and I like the dark tiki art as well. To each his own - just don't show me any Parrotthead stuff! :wink:

By the way, here's my un-tiki Vampira painting I just posted in my one thread in Creating Tiki with all of my art - tiki and otherwise. It's not tiki, but I have friends here who I think probably might find it interesting....

http://www.samgambino.com

[ Edited by: Sam Gambino 2006-08-12 22:18 ]

I believe that most people here know and understand that this thread was never aimed at the artistic community of the Tiki revival, which I have always supported, and never individually criticized. I wrote the foreword of the first book on nouveau Tiki art, Taboo, The Art of Tiki (here I go again, tiz tiz..) and count many of the Tiki artists of today as my good friends.

(If I am guilty of something, it is that have not watched and posted much in the Creating Tiki forum lately, but simply because I am trying to restrict my time here and get some real writing done.)

It is preposterous to try to twist this thread into being a "jihad" (or was it Nazi censorship?) against nouveau Tiki art. I am sorry that individuals were picked on here, that was not the intention.

(And please don't come back with some kind of b.s. like "so how is corporate commercial art different from individual..." and so on. We all don't have the time for that here.)

When coming on this site, there is a well-founded assumption that there is a basic common knowledge and understanding here, and based on that, a BASIC ability to DIFFERENTIATE.

When even that is not present, all attempts at intelligent communication are futile.

On 2006-08-12 19:52, KuKuAhu wrote:
Hey Tom Slick...

See if you can find yourself some paragraphs down there on those SoCal beaches.

That shouldn't be a problem KuKuAhu since they were written here originally...:P

I've been reading this thread for a while and thought I'd finally respond. I know my the majority of my produts are un-tiki, however I thought they might appeal to some people in this forum and that is why I chose to recently advertise here. My products come from Bali, and I will be launching a large line of more "traditional" looking tiki items in the next 2 months, including hand carved tikis fom mahogany and stone, wall masks and more. They are on the slow boat as I write this,so I guess I'll be adding to the growing trend of poly-asian tiki products in the US. I am a Tiki enthusiast, and attended the Tiki Invasion last week in Cali. I look forward to being part of this exciting forum, and I hope no one is offended by my products.

Greg

When even that is not present, all attempts at intelligent communication are futile.

We are Borg. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Sorry - I really have been reading this thread with interest - some good debate being carried out. I just couldn't resist injecting a little comic relief...the word "futile" triggered the beast within.

No offense intended to anyone, and no hijacking intended either.

Now...back to our regularly scheduled er, programming.

Well, I haven't visited the flatearth site, but I don't see myself being OFFENDED by anything that would be there...
Unless it's THIS! (kidding)

Seriously - tiki or no? Saw these in a local store & thought they were pretty damn cool, til a closer look revealed they weren't actually carved (look like it from a distance).

um...

Elviki is the coolest thing ever.
It should be 27 feet tall at the new Coco Palms resort at the entrance.

Well, maybe not.

But it's got the Poly-pop thing down IMO.
Elvis and Hawaii - Mid-Century - PLUS the Rapa Nui look.

Thanks for posting that, I had forgotten all about it.

On 2006-08-14 05:31, pablus wrote:
Elviki is the coolest thing ever.
It should be 27 feet tall at the new Coco Palms resort at the entrance.

Well, maybe not.

But it's got the Poly-pop thing down IMO.
Elvis and Hawaii - Mid-Century - PLUS the Rapa Nui look.

Thanks for posting that, I had forgotten all about it.

YES! And the name should be back lit & flash!

ELVITIKI! ELVITIKI! E-L-V-I-T-I-K-I! ELVITIKI!

ELVIKI rules! I think the coasters are good too. They don't really cross that line into untiki in my opinion.

A lot of strong opinions have been posted on this thread.

Some people have participated and contributed to this forum for many years. Their opinions carry a lot of weight. Even if I don't agree 100%, I know where they're coming from and I want to hear what they have to say.

Other people have signed up in the last few days. They have never contributed anything to this forum except an argument. Maybe if they stay awhile they'll learn something.

It's been mentioned in this thread a few times, so I wanted to point it out. I think people think the Grand Members are some sort of elected body that governs Tiki Central. Some people don't know that you just buy a Grand Membership as a way to support Tiki Central operations. It's not some special hoity toity club.

If you wanna combine Elvis and Tiki, the real answer is this Tiki Bob:

And what of the pencil-toppers?

I bought some of these, just cos I like the miniature stuff. No idea what to do with em though. Maybe put LED's inside for a mini-light string...

For those who are still a little unclear on what Tiki is about, here is a generally agreed upon definition from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiki_culture

You'll notice that, although Tiki culture existed before the BOT, there was never a DEFINITIVE AND COMPREHENSIVE STUDY done on it until the BOT which, in turn, brought it to the mainstream. Yes, there was Tiki News before that, but that was not the anthology that the BOT is, nor was it nearly as widely distributed as the BOT. Due to Taschen's massive distribution, I've heard reports of the BOT being found far and wide across the globe. Therefore, it is possible to say that the BOT has had a global influence on popular culture simply due to it's availability. Not an easy task for just one man. I work for a small publisher and know that is a large achievement for any one book, let alone one that is about a nearly-defunct (at the time) subculture.

In other words, Sven Kirsten has every right to be considered an (if not THE authority) on all things Tiki. I know it's not considered cool these days to have respect for authority, but I still choose to. And frankly, Sven is the kind of guy that is more interested in the scholarly pursuit of Tiki than in how much Tiki or un-Tiki stuff you have. (Although he is obviously interested in the physical art forms of Tiki as well.)

Oh, and Humuhumu's sport's analogy on page 4 was absolutely perfect and very well explained.

Sorry to have posted off-topic, but I felt the need to address this issue.

"My mother bought me a T-shirt with this print. She knows I'm into tiki but doesn't understand how horrible this is"

I actually like this shirt. Whats wrong with it.