Where's the beef?

It's really a shame that there are so many people who don't know nothin' about nothin' and hate anyone that does.

What a smarmy, small-minded, bigoted, self-righteous little twat you are!

disgusted,
emspace.

Wow, DaneTiki, you sure did a great job of charming Emspace around to your point of view! Congrats! He'll be out at the Peace March tomorrow morning, yessirree! Please tell us you're not planning on running for office...

Didn't that grandmother of yours ever tell you, "you'll catch more bees with honey than with vinegar"? Just a thought--

--Lisa

Dear all:

I forgot a cardinal rule of online life: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! What is a troll? Someone who posts flamebait. What is flamebait? Here's a good example:

It was hard to know which parts of your posts to ignore, emspace, because they're all so full of lies and distortions

or:

Unlike the allegiances of the right, which spin this way and that depending on how much money is in it for them, left wing loyalties are not for sale. You can't buy me off with and SUV or an ugly McMansion in the suburbs.

So I apologize to one and all for my unseemly outburst; it was exactly what DaneTiki was looking for. It just didn't hit me right away cuz I never expected to find trolls here at TC. But check out those inflammatory, cliched ad hominems. Pure troll. Here's some good advice from a site about trolls and trolling: "They are here to feed on our pain. We don't have to give them that satisfaction. They stay only as long as we feed them well. If we want them to go, all we have to do is to stop feeding them."

So let's let DaneTiki go back to his idolatry of Bill Burroughs, a junkie who shot his wife and wrote stories about pederasty, and I promise I will do my best not to feed the troll, and stick to Tiki.

aloha,
emspace.

As dear old Nancy said "Just say NO!"

Trustar

Please add Thor to that Troll list!

http://www.pork4kids.com/

So the beef website failed to change tennage diets. But surely this one will work, right?

Tikifish,
I love how they leave out the fact that they will eventually have to slaughter that cute little cartoon pig of theirs. LOL. That is sick. :P
~poi

I suggest all politics be forbidden here
before we all stop being friends.

On 2003-03-27 04:15, laney wrote:
Please add Thor to that Troll list!

Yep, true enough laney. Here's a guy who posts meaningless nonsense, maybe while stoned, then when you point it out asks what the hell you're talking about. That would definitely fall under the rubric of trolling.

BK and trustar, I agree with you and I really apologize for getting trolled in. After today (I couldn't wait to see what DT thinks I'm lying about - apparently his convictions weren't all that strong), I'm going to avoid all political threads, especially the ones I know trolls lurk in. I hope Tikifish and PoiBoy can bring it back around to the topic of meat and away from this flamewar it's turned into. tikivixen, thanx for a good laugh, I needed one :)

aloha,
em.

On 2003-03-26 15:12, DaneTiki wrote:
an ugly McMansion in the suburbs

"McMansion"...Christ. How old are you anyway, nineteen? Get back to us when you have an idea you've thought of yourself, sheep-boy.

over and out,
emapace.

This has gotten completely outta hand. Cussing at someone on a internet forum? I can see how you've lost friends during a discussion like this. Relax.

At first, I thought that Thor's first quote was the stupidest thing I've read in a long time, but it proved to be poetic and true.

I think it's time to lock this one up.

Spike

[ Edited by: Luckydesigns on 2003-03-27 15:51 ]

umm ... tiki?

On 2003-03-27 15:42, Luckydesigns wrote:
I can see how you've lost friends during a discussion like this.

Friends like that weren't worth keeping, Lucky. If you read back you'll realize the loss of friends was due to them telling me their feelings about 9-11, and I can quote: "They've had it coming for a long time, and I hope it's just the beginning." My disagreement at the time was actually met with considerably more cursing than I've posted here.

I cursed Dane because he called me a liar. If that doesn't dismay you more than a little profanity, that's your prerogative.

aloha,
em.

On 2003-03-26 15:12, DaneTiki wrote:

On 2003-03-26 10:40, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Now do your homework before your parents stop funding your liberal arts education.

Not that it's really any of your business, but my education is being funded by me and a small bequest from my late grandmother (who hated war). You see, unlike the cannibals from the locked topic who glorify war and killing, I'm not a rich kid. I worked steadily for the past nine years in everything from food service to the financial industry. I wouldn't even be in college, except that I'd like to be an editor, and it's hard to get your foot in the door in that profession without a BA.

It was hard to know which parts of your posts to ignore, emspace, because they're all so full of lies and distortions that it was impossible to see if you were ever actually writing in good faith about something that was truthful. As far as I could tell, you were not.

Have you ever actually read anything farther left that the occasional liberal column in your daily newspaper? My guess, based on your utter (and apparently willful) ignorance of left wing ideas, is no. If you had, you would realize that the primary concern of most people on the left is how to live a decent life, and provide a decent life for others, in a world that is increasingly controlled by a few big corporations and their lackeys in the government. Unlike people on the right, who absorb their news whole from the likes of Rush Limbaugh and George F. Will, folx on the left procure their information from a wide variety of sources. That's why I know, for instance, that despite Mr. Bong's hazy memory, the Vietnam vets who protested the war were a significant part of anti-war movement. Who do you think those guys in green throwing their medals at the Capitol building were, anyway?

Look, 58,000 U.S. troops died in the Vietnam War. 2 MILLION Vietnamese people also died. The ratio in our current adventure is shaping up pretty similarly. Those of us on the left are saddened by the deaths of the U.S. troops. However, since we are not racists, we are also saddened by the deaths of the Iraqi civillians that our government is "accidentally" killing with it's bunker-busters and cluster bombs.

Don't any of you on the right feel just the slightest bit hypocritical? Here you are crying crocodile tears for some Kurds who died over a decade ago. Yet, at the time, the right wing in this country was 100% behind Saddam Hussein, since they cynically saw his brutal dictatorship as being a useful pawn in the struggle for dominance in the Middle East. Ronald Reagan and the Republicans are just as much to blame for those dead Kurds as Mr. Hussein and the Ba'ath Party.

Unlike the allegiances of the right, which spin this way and that depending on how much money is in it for them, left wing loyalties are not for sale. You can't buy me off with and SUV or an ugly McMansion in the suburbs. My freedom means a little bit more to me that a $5,000 raise or a fancy vacation. Hell, YOUR freedom means a little bit more to me than that. You want to thank someone for your freedom? Thank Tom Paine, thank William S. Burroughs, thank Harriet Tubman. The people who die in uniform get a crappy deal, I'm not denying that. But their misery doesn't mean that I must somehow knuckle under to the corporate rackets and the government gangsters.

It's really a shame that there are so many people who don't know nothin' about nothin' and hate anyone that does.

DaneTiki (wow, are you like Danish, ooh, I bet all the chicks dig your Nordic features)

Your reply is a rambling mess. If you want to be an editor, start by understanding correct English composition.

You state that "I'm not a rich kid". I can't say I know many 'poor kids' whose grandmothers leave them a bequest (?).

Just like the other author of the liberal reply a few posts back, you seem to think you're a minority even though I'm sure you're as white as George Bush.

Among others, you state that you thank Harriet Tubman for your freedom. So let me understand this - your really a Dannish African-American (?).

Lastly you state that you'll never 'knuckle under to the corporate rackets ...', yet you allegedly worked in the finance industry. I think you should have stayed with your career in fast food.

Now remember, you mom said if you don't finish college in the next 8 years, your out of the trailer!

haw ,haw, haw. bong, you said it dude.strate an to tha F-in point "danish african american" some funny shi!. a poor kid who was left some dough to go to skool.hee hee...this is the first time I ever heard of that. lets put em in the endangered list .man all I can say is I never liked any politicians, clinton,bush, or anyone I dont call myself republican, democrat,liberal,spic or any of that shit.and I really hate dictators no matter where they call shots from, be it middle east or 90 miles away.I dropped outta skool and know what its like to live in a country where you gotta "wait youre turn "till you can have milk for youre family. luckily my parents got my ass outta there before I pledged allegiance to fidel and hung a picture of "el che" in my house outta fear someone might say we are not down w/ la revolution. I live not in a nice part of town, but in a housing project where you probably wouldnt prefer to drive by.all in all I dont complain the flavor is good.I thank god every day Im here and not anywhere else. It just pisses me off when I see some spoiled kids who dont know what they got here man, who's biggest worries are passin' an f-in test in some university.complaining about the war.I got a lot of friends who will say "oh the system has kicked my ass"I say bull shit man ,I beleive this is the only place in the world where you can do anything you want as long as you dont hurt others.I'm a good example of that,I always had the lure of easy money around the corner. I dropped outta skool, and worked my ass off to get to where I wanted to be. I now have my dream job (Tattoo Artist) in one of miami's bussiest street shops. and on my time off I carve tikis.By the way tattooing is very illegal in Cuba, and I would get thrown in jail for it fast. so please dont feel toooo guilty for the "have not's" beleive it or not even if youre "ghetto" Like me,(and live in this country) you can do whatever you want you just gotta stop the excuses, "ponerte las pilas" as we say. I would totally support a similar operation on my home country even if it means some innocent people will die .their freedom is worth it man. my own family members over there are in a striking similar situation as Iraq where they would never say over the telephone anything nagative about "the regime" living in fear to live youre life freely sucks dude .I dont know every single reason why we are over there getting that evil bastard outta power, but that single reason is good enough . dont close youre eyes to the real problem just cause you hate Bush. I have talked to a lot of boneheads who feel like we should not do anything to these guys cause then they will do something to us. (Im not gonna even go there).but all I'm saying man is before you go on knocking on America consider yourself lucky that you live in such a great place that lets you do that.......god bless our troops kreepy tiki jaksin

Kreepy Tiki Jaksin,

I like your style, I think we can hang. You are what's right about America my friend. Someone who understands that no matter where you're from, your chances of making it big are better here than any where else in the World.

My childhood began living off the Papago Indian reservation in south Tucson. After living in a number of places, I left home at 18 with $75 and a months rent in a shit hole apartment in a shit hole town called Stanton. After busting my ass for 20 plus years I now own my home and am doing well.

People that are given everything appreciate nothing. It's the low times that makes you appreciate the good times. America isn't perfect, but it's the best game in town.

No arguments with what everyone has said, (I could live without the name calling) you all have had very valid points, my issue is strictly with how we went in. It would have been nice to have had the U.N.'s support. I don't want to share the planet with Saddam, his sons or any fascist. As subjective as "The Truth" is, I just want (the U.S) to do the right thing.

[ Edited by: DawnTiki on 2003-03-27 18:27 ]

I agree too, Jaksin. I think you appreciate freedom tenfold when you've know what it's like not to have it. I agree about Castro, too. It'd be interesting to know how well Cuba would prosper if the Cuban people had their way. To me (and this is but a distant opinion) Castro and the mob were no better than one another. I listen to Cuban radio on shortwave a lot, and one can tell pretty easily just how much the press fears Castro. I always thought just "Cuba" had a nice ring, instead of "Republic of Cuba" or "People's Republic of Cuba". I have to add on a lighter note...My friend Louie Carrera (his mother is of Cuban descent) went over there on a music teacher's exchange program and brought me back a box each of Cuban Montechristo #1's and Cohiba Esplindides. There are quite simply no finer cigars in the world. They are over and above the highest works of art ever made anywhere, period. 30 minutes of pure, delicious ecstacy. It is a true shame that the entire U.S. can't freely enjoy the work of the Cuban Cigar maker. The equivalent of Italian leather, or Chinese silk, or French Champagne, or Dutch tulips. The best in the world, hands down.

This whole discussion has turned into a giant political circle jerk. Y'all better quit now before your palms get hairy.

-Mug

What?...I was talkin about Cuban smokes..

dude,for these guys it's a classic example of "not knowing what they got till it's gone"and hopefully they never find themselves in that situation. now, how is it that I can get my palms hairy? Base, Bong I hope to meet you guys one day too.along with the other people here who may or may not have same ideas as me on tikis, politikis, drinks, and yeah even Buffet.(yikes) beleive it or not I have met buffet fans who are not total cheeseburgers .as for jimmy hisself well lets just say I wish he represented Texas or something. god bless our troops worldwide.....jaksin

I just heard a report on both CNN and Fox that a British patrol outside of Basra had witnessed a woman at the edge of the city being drug from her home yesterday morning by the Fedayeen Saddam and BEHEADED in front of her children. Her crime? She WAVED to the previous British scout vehicle. They cannot engage without orders (it's suicide to draw fire if you're in a light-skinned vehicle), so there was little they could do. There's no fate hard enough for those animals. I just hope the people are allowed to have their way with them when the Brits move into the city.

I had to add...If I were in that place, and I saw something like that happen, whether or not I suspected the bigger motivations for this war and all the stupid politics, I know for sure what my personal motivation for fighting would be from there on out.

no f- in doubt...when was the last time some poor soul over here got beheaded for something ? think about what would happen if you staged aprotest over there about saddamn's "injustices" .beheaded in front of youre children if youre lucky. I love america, and george bush is growing on me cause he has balls the size of texas. God bless our troops.jaksin

I think even if I hated Bush I can still see the value of sweeping away that garbage.

Jaksin, Bong, BK - you all rock. And now you know you have at least one solid friend in Canada. Dawn, sorry again for the f-word, also the t-word in the post after that. I lost my temper big-time, but I notice Dane hasn't crept back yet so it was well worth it for me. Probably struggling to come up with an orignal idea. Nuff said, gotta get pricing for the yard sale tomorrow.

aloha,
em.

Oh, and P.S. since guys like Dane always love to accuse those who disagree with them of being fat-cats, it's time I weighed in and added that I have never owned a car or a home of my own (finally Mrs. emspace and I getting our first-ever condo Tuesday, thanks to her having made decent money in the last 2 years), am a high-school dropout like our bro Jaksin, never had any bequests even after my poor Dad died cuz he never made enough to afford big insurance, and so on...what I am is an underemployed web designer and musician. Mostly I've lived in basement suites. Sound like I got my philosophy standing on the backs of the poor? I AM the poor! :)

Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in
the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to
work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad
would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we
were LUCKY!

LOL! Em, no need to appologize for the F word or my one of my personal favorites... the T word! I love heated discussions, it really cleans you out! This thread needed an enema!

That's nothin'! Twelve of us used to live on a piece of paper floatin' in a septic tank!

Yes Dawn, it was a good enema too - cathartic as all hell.

:), em.

We had to wake up before we went to bed, and our father would murder us in cold blood each and every morning!

Ah, nothing forges a bond like MP.

SUBJECT: Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned. Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army; another had two
sons captured.

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists. Eleven were merchants, nine were farmers and large plantation owners; men of means, well educated. But they signed the Declaration of Independence knowing full well that the penalty would be death if they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the British Navy. He sold his home and properties to pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British that he was forced to move family almost constantly. He served in the Congress without pay, and his family was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him, and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer, Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown, Thomas Nelson JR, noted that the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed, and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed. The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying. Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his children vanished. A few weeks later he died from exhaustion and a broken heart.

Norris and Livingston suffered similar fates.

Such were the stories and sacrifices of the American Revolution. These were not wild-eyed, rabble-rousing ruffians. They were soft-spoken men of means and education. They had security, but they valued liberty more. Standing tall, straight, and unwavering, they pledged: "For the support of this declaration, with firm reliance on the protection of the divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

They gave you and me a free and independent America. The history books never told you a lot about what happened in the Revolutionary War. We didn't fight just the British.

We were British subjects at that time and we found our own government! Some of us take these liberties so much for granted, but we shouldn't. So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid.

Remember: Freedom is never free!

I am pretty up on the George Walton story. My mother is the permanent caretaker of Meadow Gardens, his home in Augusta, Georgia. She is the only paid employee of the D.A.R. in the state. She give a very interesting tour as well. Many of his personal effects are in the home. As for the fate of the signers, I think all agreed to the death...."It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

Quite a departure from your usual style Bax. Very well written and informative. God bless the US of A

On 2003-03-25 11:17, Cultjam wrote:
It is NOT a contradiction to support the troops and then go demonstrate against a war. It is the essence of a functioning democracy.[/i]

.

That is YOUR opinion. Troops in Iraq have commented on how disheartening it is to see the protesters.

Perhaps they would find it more conducive to live in a country where President Bush's picture was on every building and he would be in power for 20 or 30 years?

"The Teamsters are helping Mr. Moore into the trunk of his limo." Steve Martin

"It is the soldier, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."

Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Sergeant, USMarineCorps

[ Edited by: suzywong on 2003-03-29 13:57 ]

You go Suzy
Spiko, I myself cannot take credit for my last post, I found it on the internet doing homework search for my son.
But it did nuntheless touch me. That is also why the writing level was above third grade.

Now you wanna TALK about lucky!...This guy is with 40 Commando Royal Marines..That kevlar helmet on his head took 4 AK-47 direct hits in a firefight and stopped every one...I think I'd be smiling, too. I'd definitely keep that helmet to show my grandkids!

Suzywong, it's my opinion that your concern for the morale of our troops is genuine, but to equivocate all opposition to war as a failure to support the troops could make you an easy target for very cynical manipulation.

Today CNN showed a peaceful scene in San Francisco of demonstrators both for and against the war. Both sides said they support the troops, so hopefully our troops can now take heart. A few of us are starting to act respectfully of what this country is about! A round of mai-tais for all of them!

CNN also interviewed a former US Air Force general criticizing the our undertaking this war without a UN coalition. Hmmm. You think he doesn't support or care about our troops? Or do you think he just wants to get on tv?

Please don't try to make our troops feel like the antiwar movement is automatically against them. We need to exercise our freedom to disagree on war more than anything else. Your guilt about the troops stance isn't in anyone's best interest unless you have a contract to make weapons for the military.

[ Edited by: Cultjam on 2003-03-29 18:22 ]

On 2003-03-28 21:33, thebaxdog wrote:
Five signers were captured by the British as traitors, and tortured before they died.

Etc....

Cheers! An anti-British rant. Good timing!

Trader Woody

On 2003-03-30 13:42, Trader Woody wrote:

Cheers! An anti-British rant. Good timing!

Trader Woody

Hey Trader Woody,

Are you all still sore with us about that whole "revolution" thing or because we butchered your fine language?

When i was a young bar-man i was informed was given two tips on running a happy bar, never allow the customers to discuss Politics or Religion cause that leads to fights and never serve white cider and special brew snake-bites to the punks.

(in my club we have a War-box, which is like swear-box but if you mention the war you have to put in a pound. Although it leads to much Bazil Faulty impression)

why the hell do we get to see geraldo rivera Illustrate a detailed drawing on the desert ground showing where they are and where they are going? It's a godamned outrage that we are risking the lives of our Brave american troops with these dickhead "in the way " journalists reporting every f'in move they make .Im glad they just reported that they kicked his stupid ass out of Iraq. scumbag!!!

Ditto on Geraldo....Where are the Skinheads when you need them? I have to say, despite being completly at odds with their racism and fascism, I have to give them points for breaking that guy's nose. :)

On 2003-03-31 11:04, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Hey Trader Woody,

Are you all still sore with us about that whole "revolution" thing or because we butchered your fine language?

Well, we got our revenge for the revolution a couple of decades later when we went back in and burnt down the White House in the 'war nobody ever mentions', and without American butchering, we'd never have got to hear words such as 'Ho', 'Surf n' Turf', and 'Badass'.

So no, I'm happy to wear my Anglo/American friendship pin.

Trader Woody

On 2003-03-31 21:50, Basement Kahuna wrote:
Ditto on Geraldo....Where are the Skinheads when you need them? I have to say, despite being completly at odds with their racism and fascism, I have to give them points for breaking that guy's nose. :)

When I teach my students about the running of the bulls in Pamplona (which I witnessed almost 3 years ago), we watch a video of Geraldo doing so! He did a story on it, and to be a more informed reporter, he runs each day (it lasts for a week). The kids laugh their ASSES off when they see him eat it - nowhere NEAR any bull! It's perhaps my favorite part of the whole unit, watching Geraldo act all manly, then trip and fall and bloody his knee! (Mind you, I did not run it myself, so I have to give at least the credit for having the huevos to do the run. My credit and admiration stop THERE, however.)

Wow...this post is a sad example of humanity being unable to listen to each other, the good ole Babylonian curse.
That's why I left Germany, because after all the experience and understanding of what is right and wrong in the world, very little could be effected with discussion, everybody just stayed in their corner and tried to be smarter.
I think George W. had a good nose for the cycles of consensus reality, and realized that for too long there had been a lack of causes. Human beings crave a purpose, and liberal purposes are just too complex and wishy washy to satisfy, when as an alternative one can kick some serious ass.
Let's all join in:
"Osama attacked us now Iraq must pay!"

Sven,
Off your fast? Drinking again? You were so mellow on the crawl. Hefe and Underbergs?? Score!!! Pass the Kraut Dog please!! Welcome back!! (need you help filling us in with the crawl #3). Back to you all getting political wit each other!! Won't interup again, I hope?

I just had some of my good old Lemon Hart Demarara on the rocks, t'is the blood of Tiki, mahn!
Baxdog accidentaly broke the x-tra bottle of it I brought to the crawl, that could be 7 years of bad luck, but only if you believe in it, which I don't.