Safety Thread...Read pg. 3

Heh Heh!

Kaga,

If your respirator has just HEPA filters you should replace them when you notice that it is more work for you to breathe. HEPA filters actually perform better the dirtier they are, it's just more work. If it is a combo filter (HEPA and usually organic vapor) you should replace it when you notice that the smell of the organic is penetrating the cartridge (assuming that it was filtering it to begin with).

Important note: Make sure that you are wearing the respirator correctly and that you have it adjusted right. There should not be anything, such as hair, between the respirator and your skin. When adjusting it, fit it so that when you cover the cartidge inlets and breathe in it draws a vacuum on your face and holds it (it does not need to super tight to do this). Store it in a ziplock bag to prevent it from being damaged and to keep critters (like spiders) out of it.

Wow, this is a really great thread. Glad to hear wisdom from the sage, lucky and formerly wounded.

The stories here make my own old wounds ache just thinking about it. None from from carving or the college building scenery days.

To share a story about long hair, a friend of mine learned the hard way that even loose longish strands in close proximity to tools is bad, if not embarrasing, idea. Yes, he had his long hair pulled back BUT some strand from the forehead area had come loose. Somehow, he was using a screw gun and his loose strands got wrapped up in the drill bit. Well, I don't know the uglyness of the initial injury. However, anyone could tell something happened from the rectangular bald patch in the center of his front hair line. Yes, he was the "head" butt of jokes for a while.

Bump

I have never been injured while chainsaw carving in FlipFlopps and I have the scars to prove it!

bump...

"He who does anything because it is the custom makes no choice."

[ Edited by: loki 2006-08-28 04:58 ]

After reading through this thread I found it scary that the in all the talk about respirators, the only thing mentioned was this: There should not be anything, such as hair, between the respirator and your skin.
That should be a given! I've seen too many people with beards trying to use a dust mask or respirator, only to end up getting the finest of particulates leaving a trail where they got through to the sinuses. As silly as it sounds, I know a painter that puts a thick layer of vaseline on his beard line where the respirator makes contact. He is the only painter I have ever seen not have an entire face full of paint from spraying all day. He also replaces the respirator every two months. Not just the cartridges, the whole thing.
Another point that was never mentioned is when you see someone using a power tool, do NOTHING to distract them! Even if you know what they're doing is wrong, wait until they're done and then say something. This point is near and dear to my heart and I have the scars to prove it. Power tool safety is a very big deal to me, my friends will attest to that. While I may not always do the safest of things, I do know my limits.
Sorry to ramble, I'll get down from the soap-box.

Seeing as one of my mistakes prompted this bump, I'll add one of my golden rules which I stupidly ignored today in through impatience and not taking the time to think though my process.
When using burrs of any type in your dremel/foredom/rotary handpiece of choice, avoid the temptation to overextend the burr to get deeper into a piece. Make sure at least half if not 3/4 of the shank is pushed down into the collet. If not, the burr will almost certainly bend where it meets the collet, and you will have a miniature flail spinning at tens of thousands of RPM that will make you lose control of the handpiece and smash anything it comes in contact with. Luckily for me it was a piece of stone today and not my fingers (I've done it before and should know better).

Heath,

Read through the entire thread, there is considerably more info about respirators. The problem is that I am not going to post a 20 page message to regurgitate the ANSI respirator standard. I cannot make specific recommendations for individuals without some considerable background info on what they are doing. I do occupational safety for a living and I find it laudable that there is even any info on safety for something that is a hobby. I wish more small companies would take the same amount of time Loki has put into this thread to educate their people.

Another point of interest may be what to do in specific situations. I follow the MSDS sheets for all the chemicals at my job. The basic deal working with chemicals such as stains or adhesives is pretty much the same.

1. If a chemical gets in your eyes - flush with lots of water for at least 15 minutes. If irritation persists get medical attention.
2. If it gets on your skin - wash with a gentle soap and water.
3. If it is an inhalation issue - Remove to fresh air, give artificial respiration if needed seek medical assistance.
4. This one is a little different depending on the chemical but
   If ingested - drink one to two glasses of water or milk. DO NOT induce vomiting seek medical attention. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.(best to check labels for first aid on the specific stains or whatever being used.)

I know a lot of this is common sense but common sense can vanish real quick in a panic type situation.
Great thread.
Cheers.
Matt

Surf tiki,
I'm sorry if I seemed kind of pissy in my post, I really didn't mean to. The point I was trying to make is that if you have facial hair (i.e. moustache, goatee, beard...), be very particular when choosing a respirator. I've seen too many people rely upon the advice of their "local do-it-yourself professional". I too, am very happy to see that "common sense" is not so much an oxymoron here at TC as it seems to be becoming in the rest of the world.

Figured I'd bump this since we seem to have had a few injuries lately. I guess Loki and I forgot to mention a few other safety tips such as:

Don't set yourself on fire
Don't do dishes (BTW Lake, that is, unfortuantely, not all that uncommon an injury)

Surf Tiki = Industrial Hygenist....lol

Mahalo

McTiki

Set yourself on fire??

Yeah, Yeah Yeah, I KNOW Better but I'm just lazy. I use the chisels for an hour with NO Sawdust and pick up the grinder for 2 minutes then back to chisels, then the sander and so on and so forth. Don't you love my excuses? I break all the rules but no more.. Mask foever for me, PERIOD!!
Thanks for bumping this up

I don't think this has been discussed. If you use propane or any gas to burn carvings make sure all fittings are tight and you have a fire extinguisher around. Cause it sucks when you here a small gas leak while your burning, shut off the valve on the hoses to tighten things up and it back flashes into itself behind the shutoff valve. Causing a minor explosion that takes some of your hair off including a lot of nose hair and eyebrows. If you panic like I did you throw the torch and hoses that are spewing flames into the corner of your shop where there is about 6 inches of saw dust and a bunch of tools laying, run for the door of your shop because you don't know how bad you are burned. When you make it to the door you realize it does not matter how bad you are burned cause a corner of your shop and some expensive tools are now in flames. So you run back in grab the fire extinguisher( pure luck I had one of those laying around )and put out the blaze. All worked out ok it just added a little character to a few tools and my face for a few months.

On 2007-02-08 07:26, McTiki wrote:
Surf Tiki = Industrial Hygenist....lol

Ding , ding , ding! Stop calling folks we have a winner (or at least close enough to be one).

Let me add again, Don't set yourself on fire.

keigs, Thanks I needed a good laugh today. The mental picture I got of that was fricking HEE-LARRY-US

Ok, Basic safety measures broken down by tool:

Chainsaw: (GMAN, fill in where I leave a blank) Face shield, Heavy gloves, leg gaurds, and shoes that preferably offer at least .5 seconds of protection before the skin is touched by the teeth.

Lancelot: Face Shield, respirator, Heavy gloves, hair tucked way away from this machine, Leg gaurds (optional) shoes that offer the aforementioned protection.

Cutzalls (1/4") : Same as Lancelot

Dremels: Goggles, respirator type mask.

Chisels/Gouges: gloved hand and possibly Goggles depending on how fast and furious you are.

Burning: If you are using a propane line like Kiegs, use soapy water over all fittings prior to igniting. Otherwise, use the can and single fitting/nozzle.

Mahalo

McTiki

McTiki,

I also use a chicken foot on a string.

-Gman

Yu Da Man! Sprinkle some voodoo on this already dificult art.....

Nice!

Mahalo

McTiki

should gloves be worn with the lancelot? couldn't they bind up and cause further damage?

I wear rough leather gardener's gloves that are tight fitting. It will not prevent the Lancelot from hurting you, but it will reduce the amount of damage caused without doubt. It will not get caught up in the blade unless intentionally placed in the mouth of the Lancy! (which we all know....you just won't do) The gloves are worn more for the particulates that are produced at such high speeds (32,000 RPM).

Mahalo

McTiki

Wow...some pretty scary stories here and really great safety guidelines. This thread should be a MUST-READ for all new carvers or people even thinking about carving. Power tools and even hand hald can cause serious irrepairable damage. Great thread!!!

Does anyone have any info on how toxic bone dust may be for your lungs? I haven't read this whole thread yet, but could someone recommend a respirator that works for a guy with a beard and is still affordable? Thanks.

I'll check into the toxicity question when I get to work and have access to references. I suspect that it is more of a hazard to due being a respirable particle than from any chemical toxicity.

As far as the respirator, that is a tricky question. In industry the only respirators that work effectively with beards are "hood-type" ones. These are not all that readily available and they use a powered pump to supply air. If you have a thick beard you may be able to get away with wearing a N95 surgical type mask as your beard will actually act as a filter. If the toxicity of the bone is low (which is what I would suspect) this is probably adequate. You can also set up a system to pull the dust away from you using a fan (or big shop vac) with some sort of enclosure to work in.

i don't know about bone, what about ivory? is it the same? i usually wear a respirator when sanding, but not grinding. the particulate is so much larger it doesn't suspend in the air. i wear it to just keep the smell out if for nothing else.

I'm watching Extreme Hom Makeover right now! right? One of the designers, Ed Sanders, from the UK was hit with a Lancelot! I don't know the extent of the damage, but, it looked harsh!. Be freakin careful with lancelots and "Squires" ( also Shown!)

Mahalo

McTiki

A quick literature search did not turn up any specifically listed toxicity for either bone or ivory. There were several listed cases of people experiencing asthma and anaphylaxis from exposure to bone dust but these appear to be related to allergies to protein antigens in fresh bone and reaction to residual chemicals used to treat the bones.

In short, treat it like you would treat a hardwood. Wear a dust mask and take steps to reduce the amount of airborne dust.

It is important to note that when working with "fossilized" ivory you run the risk of exposure to whatever mineral the bone has bonded with over the years so there is the potential for some toxicity.

Since wet sanding is often used when working with bone to prevent it from overheating it should be fairly easy to control exposure.

As usual this advice is worth what you paid to get it.

IF you noticed, they had REMOVED the safety shield! They had been working with the shiels=dmin place although it was placed incorrectly according to the Mfg instructions. Then thay had a difficult part to do so they thought Removing the shield altogether would cut quicker-- it did but Not where they were expecting!

On 2007-02-13 11:08, Benzart wrote:
IF you noticed, they had REMOVED the safety shield! They had been working with the shiels=dmin place although it was placed incorrectly according to the Mfg instructions. Then thay had a difficult part to do so they thought Removing the shield altogether would cut quicker-- it did but Not where they were expecting!

And thus this bit of wisdom from Loki: "•Don’t take safety guards off and discontinue using tools with broken guards. They are there for a reason. "

If you watch any TV show where they are using things like table saws the guards are usually removed. I often wonder if no one from OSHA watches TV because I could sit around writing citations from the comfort of my couch just by watching Extreme Makeover, While You Were Out, Monster House (although you could argue whether they were "employed" on that show), etc.

Just so everryone doesn't get the wrong idea: no I don't work for OSHA. I do occupational safety for a living so where I am giving you advice as a hobbyist, I get to yell at people at work for the same thing. Although OSHA does not apply to nonoccupational settings, there are some valuable lessons learned that can be used at home. Stuff that can kill you at a jobsite can kill you at home as well.

this is very cool. i'm pretty sure we'll be getting one of these in our new shop. make sure and watch the videos.

http://www.sawstop.com/

We looked at those last year. Kinda pricy. Its also too bad that you have to make contact with the blade in order for it to function. Maybe they could make a saw that slaps you in the head if you take the guard off.

our regular table saw was around $2000 when we boought it. i wouldn't mind spending another grand to get that level of safety. i had a friend cut off half his fingers on a shop smith table saw a couple of years ago and it cost a hell of a lot more than a grand to get it fixed to the point it is. (not very)

then again, it isn't my money.

I just got out of the hospital with pneumonia - apparently caused by walnut dust.

I was occasionally wearing a mask and I even made a dust collection system. The dust collector uses a shop vac. The shop vac is sooo strong that it blows the finer dust particles thru the filter and back into the room. I verified this by

A) changing filters, then
B) putting a clean white t-shirt above the vac exhaust.

This was an eye opener (and a lung closer). I put a router control switch (reostat) on the shop vac to slow it down, and less dust came out, but some still does. Shop vacs are no good for this purpose I think.

But it all comes down to wearing a respirator. I got new filters and as soon as I shake this damned bug, I'm back on it. I'm going to wear the damned thing every time I go into the shop, no matter how uncomfortable or inconvenient.

I am also going to buy a nice dust collector. Not more goofin around - especially with pink fleshy things like lungs.

Consider yourself warned.

Man what a way to learn a lesson, hey Tgap? Pneumonia is a really drastic illness that kills MANY, Many people every day and it is usually caused by the things you breathe into your lungs. We All know better and we Know that we should use the proper protection but we all say "Well maybe next time" or " I'll get around to id, Just not today". Well folks today is the day.
I was pretty sick, but not nearly as bad as TGap, But not far behind. It really opened my eyes. I have three choices; No Carving and live, OR Carving with total protection and Live or carve with No protection and don't live! It's a simple choice since I can't see me giving up carving I'll take choice # 2.
Now, Who's next on the list?

Since there seems to be a lot of new faces (or whatever passes for faces on the internet) in here carving up some wood, I thought I would resurrect the old safety thread.

Ok you found me.

Grinders: first thing i did took off guard on 7" and the 5"
I will try them with them on.

Goggles: when sanding they fog up so easy? depends on weather
I use them most of the time. I don't have ski goggles like G was
talking about but there not safety approved.

Sharpening Tools: keeping them sharp is a safety thing. Im open for suggestions here
any links or inside info I'm all ears. I'm having a hard time keeping the V shape
tool sharp at the tip.

Hey seeksurf, if you are not producing large pieces when you grind ski goggles would probably work pretty good. Safety glasses and goggles are rated for impact resistance. If you don't need to worry about the impact then just keeping the dust out should be good enough.

Check out my pics of how to safely chop off your fingers at the bottom of this page:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=26319&forum=18&18
It's really the camera angle as the saw is about 2 feet from my hand at this stage, but i know Bamboo Ben was a lil horrified...
Tiki Trav

Hey, that's why guys like me have a job.

Bump

I am not sure if it has already being stated or not, but not having a Zombie or drinking too many beers before carving or building whatever..is safer. I know - firm grasp of the obvious, but it happens.

I think i did not read this here (feel free to correct me).

What ever you do, work at your own pace!

I myself being a beginner at carving wanted to rush things so i could show of my tiki to all my friends etc.
Bad idea. Rushing things along while working with sharp (power)tools makes work unsafe. And most of the time the outcome of your work is not as good as it could have been.
So take it easy and take a step back every once in a while, so you have time to think about what you are doing.
Stay save everyone, and if that doesn't work, at least stay creative :wink:

never thought about a safety thread and didn't know about it till johnny p told me to post my photos here. don't think that leather gloves would have stopped me from getting cut as i really jammed it into my finger but i think i could have just superglued the cut as opposed to requiring sutures.

i've never used gloves when using my chisels but after reading this tread i will definitely grab me a nice thick pair next time i'm at the hardware store. i guess a sarong and flipflops is out of the question when firing up the chainsaw!

OUUCHH! Man that Looks like it hurt a bit. Amazing isn't it how when we see this happening to ourselves, we Always immediately realize what we did wrong and the safety precautions we avoided and how we can prevent it from happening again BUT then pick right up where we left off with a promise to "Get some protection" sometime in the future!

I know everyone of my chisels are Blood-thirsty by nature! I give 'em all the respect I can, then a little time goes by and the respect starts to wain and the next thing you know, you've been bit again and the respect thing starts all over!