So what's the latest on Commercial Orgeat?

Hello all,
Yesterday I spent some time reading old posts about Orgeat. The reason was that I used Trader Vic's newer Orgeat in a presntation I did, and what a surprise (not), it's bad. Not nearly as thick as the old one, and the taste was very weak in the drink.
I have some Monin, and that is what I originaly used for my drinks, but I resent them for changing their syrup line, and rather find something else.
Torani is out of the question, I know what it tastes like, and I'm not going to use it (I did a small batch of 50/50 Monin/Torani for Mai Tais a couple of years ago, but I'll never use it by itself).
What are you all using now?
I am not interested in homemade syrup as answers to this thread, although I'm sure it's great.

Thanks,
Ran

At Touch of Europe you can get...

Teísseíre

as well as...

Rieme almond syrup.

Not that this really applies anymore, but these two orgeats are French as is the orgeat that Victor Bergeron specified in his Mai Tai recipe. The French style orgeat of today may have no resemblance to what it was in the 1940s. I use Teísseíre when I don't make my own.

Rum Balls on a previous post has a recipe for NW Tiki Kon Mai Tai, which uses Amaretto di Saronno instead of orgeat, and it is surprisingly good, although the almond has a completely different flavor profile. I've been put off by Torani because it tastes overly artificial and leaves a weird aftertaste in my mouth.

Amaretto is an Italian liqueur flavored with herbs and fruits soaked in apricot kernel oil, according to the Disaronno web site. Not really an almond liqueur, though some say it tastes somewhat like almonds.

I still use Trader Vic's brand, though I know it's probably not the best, it's the easiest for me to find. But my bottle is probably a couple years old so may be before they changed it.

[ Edited by: thejab 2009-07-22 16:10 ]

I had been using Torani or Monin Orgeat for some time simply because it's all that I could find here in Cincinnati. The Monin was the better of the two but neither of the syrups were really great IMHO. I ordered a French brand online recently, Routin 1883 Orgeat, and it was a total epiphany for me. Routin is an old French syrup producer that is located in the Alps and their syrups are a cut above others that I've tried. Their Orgeat is complex with a wonderful mouth feel. My Mai Tai's are really world class now thanks to the use of a better brand of Orgeat.

FYI-I also bought Routin's cinnamon, raspberry and vanilla syrup, all of which are top notch. Routin comes in big 1 liter bottles, so you have to replace them less frequently.

If i am traveling or somewhere that I can't get orgeat I use amaretto with a dash of simple syrup. I call it Emergency Orgeat.

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2009-07-22 17:09 ]

I just looked through my inventory and found that besides the almost gone old glass bottle TV, I have another unopened one, plus two unopened bottles:

1. Rosata from Israel
2. Orzata from Italy
   Both look very unpromising with their ingredients...
   All of the above can't be counted on for the future.
   The Routin 1883 sounds like something I should try. Touch of Europe offerings look nice too, but more expensive.
   Keep 'em coming please
   Thanks,
   Ran

[ Edited by: kick_the_reverb 2009-07-22 22:02 ]

[ Edited by: kick_the_reverb 2009-07-22 22:06 ]

I've been using Sonoma Syrup's Orgeat "infused" simple syrup. Its vanilla taste is stronger than its almond component but it does the job.

I've been tempted to buy the Small Hand Foods orgeat that's made in SF but it's quite expensive and all-organic (as in very perishable).

[ Edited by: Shaun of theTiki 2009-07-22 23:35 ]

You guys should try Entner-Stuart Almond Premium Syrup.
It's made from Maui sugar.
Good stuff.

http://www.baristaproshop.com/catalog/product.php?productid=176

Thanks for the tip Unga Bunga, that looks like another good option.
Ran

For those of you listing an orgeat to try, can you confirm if it contains rose water or orange-flower water, or neither? I'm under the impression that some brands of orgeat neglect to include this important ingredient.

[ Edited by: Hakalugi 2009-07-23 13:30 ]

I can also vouch for the Teisseire Orgeat. Nice smooth almond flavor with none of the "burn" I've experienced with some other brands. It's a little pricey, but I think it's worth it. Homemade is better, but has to be used so quickly.

You mean the Collins Brand orgeat I've been using isn't very good? I could do better?

On 2009-07-23 13:26, Hakalugi wrote:
For those of you listing an orgeat to try, can you confirm if it contains rose water or orange-flower water, or neither? I'm under the impression that some brands of orgeat neglect to include this important ingredient.

[ Edited by: Hakalugi 2009-07-23 13:30 ]

Thanks Hakalugi, that's a very good point.

Ran

You guys should try Entner-Stuart Almond Premium Syrup.
It's made from Maui sugar.

This company's now located an hour down I-5 from Portland in Albany. Don't know who, if anyone, sells their stuff retail around here. Not only do they make an almond syrup, but I also see on their website that they make cane syrups...and list a passion fruit syrup! More investigation is needed!

http://www.entnerstuartsyrups.com/html/Products.html

On 2009-07-23 13:26, Hakalugi wrote:
For those of you listing an orgeat to try, can you confirm if it contains rose water or orange-flower water, or neither? I'm under the impression that some brands of orgeat neglect to include this important ingredient.

Yes , good question.
I just threw out the Entner-Stuart bottle and won't know until I buy another.
I just read my Trader Vic's (plastic) bottle and it does not contain either of these. In fact, it looks like there's a lot of nasty crap in it, but no rose water or orange-flower water. Interesting.

On 2009-07-24 05:50, Rum Balls wrote:

This company's now located an hour down I-5 from Portland in Albany. Don't know who, if anyone, sells their stuff retail around here. Not only do they make an almond syrup, but I also see on their website that they make cane syrups...and list a passion fruit syrup! More investigation is needed!

http://www.entnerstuartsyrups.com/html/Products.html

I didn't see the passion fruit. From this company it should be a winner.
And thanks for the heads up on that.

On 2009-07-22 22:01, kick_the_reverb wrote:
I just looked through my inventory and found that besides the almost gone old glass bottle TV, I have another unopened one, plus two unopened bottles:

1. Rosata from Israel
2. Orzata from Italy
   Both look very unpromising with their ingredients...

I'm curious what the Orzata tastes like. Have you compared it to Orgeat?

On 2009-07-24 14:04, thejab wrote:

On 2009-07-22 22:01, kick_the_reverb wrote:
I just looked through my inventory and found that besides the almost gone old glass bottle TV, I have another unopened one, plus two unopened bottles:

1. Rosata from Israel
2. Orzata from Italy
   Both look very unpromising with their ingredients...

I'm curious what the Orzata tastes like. Have you compared it to Orgeat?

I haven't opened the bottles yet, but I assume it won't be anything special.
If I open these up I'll try them in a cocktail and post the results. I doubt I'll try them by themselves, as I'm not a big fan of the Orgeat taste by itself.

Ran

Here's a quote from Beachbum Berry that he just sent me:

Aloha Ran,

I totally agree; the hassle of making orgeat isn't worth it if you only use a dash or two once in a while. Purists may object to my favorite brands because they do have artificial ingredients in them, but I judge on taste alone (hey, we're not drinking cocktails for health reasons!)

I like two brands: The absolute best-tasting is Premiere Essence from Roskin Incorporated, made by Bob Esmino -- who actually was a bar manager at Steve Crane's Kon-Tiki restaurants back in the 1960s. Unfortunately you have to order it, as it hasn't hit stores yet:

http://roskinincorporated.com/tropicalmixes.html

I also like Fee Brothers orgeat. But distribution is spotty on the West Coast. Easy to order by phone, though. They're friendly and cool about not having to buy large amounts: http://www.feebrothers.com/Page.asp?Script=2

I've heard good things about Tessiere, but haven't tried it yet....

Feel free to repost this on TC.....

Okole maluna,

Jeff

Annnnhhh, what does the Bum know?
He likes Fee Bros. Falernum over Taylors - he's officially a-fee-shill.

:wink:

Actually - mahalo for posting that, ktr. I'm always looking for better orgeat than this giant plastic bottle of creamy goo that Koka Nut found somewhere.

So should I stock up on the glass bottled TV's orgeat that a local store still has for $4.99 a bottle?

Chris

Probably, sounds like a good deal. I'm sure some of the other brands mentioned here are much better, but most people were using the old style TV with success, so I see no reason not to.
Ran

I have been reaaaaallly happy with the orzatta from Ferrara, which is based in NYC. They use sugar instead of corn syrup, and the taste and texture is a step up from Fee's, imhop. I have only found it at one store in Boston.

On 2009-07-24 15:32, kick_the_reverb wrote:
Here's a quote from Beachbum Berry that he just sent me:

Aloha Ran,

I totally agree; the hassle of making orgeat isn't worth it if you only use a dash or two once in a while. Purists may object to my favorite brands because they do have artificial ingredients in them, but I judge on taste alone (hey, we're not drinking cocktails for health reasons!)

I like two brands: The absolute best-tasting is Premiere Essence from Roskin Incorporated, made by Bob Esmino -- who actually was a bar manager at Steve Crane's Kon-Tiki restaurants back in the 1960s. Unfortunately you have to order it, as it hasn't hit stores yet:

http://roskinincorporated.com/tropicalmixes.html

I REALLY hate to disagree with the Bum (a second time), but...

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=21769&forum=10&vpost=343028

Tasting it straight about made me gag.

On 2009-07-30 21:57, Kona Chris wrote:
So should I stock up on the glass bottled TV's orgeat that a local store still has for $4.99 a bottle?
Chris

Chris, I would be all over it.
Check out the expiration date.

On 2009-07-31 10:10, The Mayor Of Exotica wrote:
I have been reaaaaallly happy with the orzatta from Ferrara, which is based in NYC. They use sugar instead of corn syrup, and the taste and texture is a step up from Fee's, imhop. I have only found it at one store in Boston.

The Ferrara Orzata is a high quality product but it has a much weaker almond taste than the older TV, IMO. The Premier Essence (BTW, I'm not a fan) has the almond "intensity" correct. In this light, I see why Beachbum Berry recommends it. But, overall it is a very chemical laden product.

[ Edited by: bewarethe151 2009-08-03 12:44 ]

I only have cheap lousy commercial orgeat available where I am. What is the best substitute? Can I use amaretto?

Mick, I have used Amaretto with great success. In fact when I'm traveling and can't find orgeat I always use 3/4 amaretto with 1/4 simple syrup. I call it "emergency Orgeat". Use a good quality liqueur, like Di Saronno or Luxardo, they have a better almond purity than the cheap brands.

Cheers,

Craig

Great! and it gives an extra kick of C2H5OH (ethanol)whereas the orgeat has none.

On 2009-08-04 22:37, CincyTikiCraig wrote:
Mick, I have used Amaretto with great success. In fact when I'm traveling and can't find orgeat I always use 3/4 amaretto with 1/4 simple syrup. I call it "emergency Orgeat". Use a good quality liqueur, like Di Saronno or Luxardo, they have a better almond purity than the cheap brands.

Cheers,

Craig

Not to be confused with Emergency Orgeat Syrup.

On 2009-08-05 11:29, The Gnomon wrote:

On 2009-08-04 22:37, CincyTikiCraig wrote:
Mick, I have used Amaretto with great success. In fact when I'm traveling and can't find orgeat I always use 3/4 amaretto with 1/4 simple syrup. I call it "emergency Orgeat". Use a good quality liqueur, like Di Saronno or Luxardo, they have a better almond purity than the cheap brands.

Cheers,

Craig

Not to be confused with Emergency Orgeat Syrup.

Thanks for posting that link Gnomon. That recipe may be my new backup syrup when I'm on vacation.

Thanks again!

Mahalo,

Craig

What was the problem with Monin?
Just curious...

I dig their Almond syrup.

On 2009-08-06 11:54, skeeter wrote:
What was the problem with Monin?
Just curious...

I dig their Almond syrup.

I've always found Monin's almond to be quite good, although hard to find in my area. It's a heck of a lot better than the Torani that I used to use.

I also can find nothing but torani in my area. Anyone in Vancouver area know where I can find better orgeat?

I was unaware that Torani made orgeat and I'd be surprised if they did.

They make an almond syrup, which of course, is not orgeat. The whole Torani line, just like other lines you can actually find in neighborhood stores, seems to be geared totally for using in brown water to mask the coffee flavor. That's really the only reason you can find them in the first place. They are harsh and not of mixological grade, but with all of the Starbucks and copycat chains peddling brown water, they do have a decent market.

The Greater Washington Area is about as cosmopolitan as they come, so you'd think you could find something as basic as orgeat in lots of stores. Nope. And I suspect that most parts of the country are even less inclined to have orgeat than the DC area.

That's why a long time ago I stopped even looking for it anymore and just went online to have it shipped to me.

But since my Emergency Orgeat tastes better than storebought, I hardly ever use anything else unless I'm up for making the real thing. Still, when I'm out of the ingredients for EO, it's always good to have some storebought on hand.

If you can't find orgeat in your area, why hold your tiki drinks hostage by using unworthy substitutes when you can just order it online?

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2009-08-10 10:15 ]

On 2009-08-10 10:12, The Gnomon wrote:
I was unaware that Torani made orgeat and I'd be surprised if they did.

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2009-08-10 10:15 ]

Acually, they do call it Orgeat. Well, they have both. They taste the same, though not very good.

[ Edited by: bewarethe151 2009-08-10 13:24 ]

Years ago, it just said Almond Syrup. Now it says Orgeat Almond Syrup.

[ Edited by: bewarethe151 2009-08-10 13:23 ]

Has anyone tried Crème de Noyeau as an orgeat substitute in Mai Tais?

Has anyone tried Crème de Noyeau as an orgeat substitute in Mai Tais?

Not specifically Creme de Noyeau, but I have used Amaretto a few times...taste is similar to me, but it does kick up the alcohol level a bit.

On 2009-08-10 13:00, bewarethe151 wrote:
Years ago, it just said Almond Syrup. Now it says Orgeat Almond Syrup.

Just as I suspected. Wannabees Buttaints.

On 2009-08-05 11:29, The Gnomon wrote:

Not to be confused with Emergency Orgeat Syrup.

How did I miss this?
Excellent thread Gnomon

On 2009-08-05 11:29, The Gnomon wrote:
Wannabees Buttaints

And this also could be an excellent thread.

I'm sure kick the reverb doesn't want to see this, and this may have been posted elsewhere on this forum, but here's a really basic recipe for orgeat that doesn't sound too conplicated:

http://www.artofdrink.com/2006/02/orgeat-syrup.php

Anyone try this??

On 2009-08-20 12:00, quickiki wrote:
I'm sure kick the reverb doesn't want to see this, and this may have been posted elsewhere on this forum, but here's a really basic recipe for orgeat that doesn't sound too conplicated:

http://www.artofdrink.com/2006/02/orgeat-syrup.php

Anyone try this??

Yes, sort of.

That is the more or less standard orgeat recipe. The most tedious part is making the almond milk. Here is something I posted a while back on making almond milk.

The method I posted uses pre-blanched, slivered almonds, but you really get much better milk if you blanch your own nuts. Ouch! 8)

Oh. I forgot to mention...

The OP stated at the outset that this thread was intended to determine which ready-made orgeats were worth acquiring. There has been plenty of discussion among purists on TC in other threads who extol the virtues of making it from scratch, myself included.

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2009-08-21 06:27 ]

On 2009-08-20 13:04, The Gnomon wrote:

Oh. I forgot to mention...

The OP stated at the outset that this thread was intended to determine which ready-made orgeats were worth acquiring. There has been plenty of discussion among purests on TC in other threads who extol the virtues of making it from scratch, myself included.

Thanks Gnomon...excatly, I know how to use the search feature, and have been on here a few years to read about home made stuff. Apart from Oasis time and other special occasions, I don't make large quantities of drinks.
High hassle factor + short shelf life + no need for large quantity = home made Orgeat not a good option.

Ran

On 2009-08-20 10:48, Unga Bunga wrote:

On 2009-08-05 11:29, The Gnomon wrote:

Not to be confused with Emergency Orgeat Syrup.

How did I miss this?
Excellent thread Gnomon

On 2009-08-05 11:29, The Gnomon wrote:
Wannabees Buttaints

And this also could be an excellent thread.

Thanks for the props. You're right about the thread idea; definitely Bilgeworthy. We might also want to start one called TMI.

On 2009-08-20 15:32, kick_the_reverb wrote:
Thanks Gnomon...excatly, I know how to use the search feature, and have been on here a few years to read about home made stuff. Apart from Oasis time and other special occasions, I don't make large quantities of drinks.
High hassle factor + short shelf life + no need for large quantity = home made Orgeat not a good option.

Ran

NP. My Emergency Orgeat only takes ten minutes and, other than the fact that it has no thickness whatsoever, it tastes better than storebought and is probably easier to come by for a lot of people unless you order online at considerable expense. Still, it pays to have some storebought handy, so it's good to know what's good and what's not.

Hit the swaybar, face the speakers, and blast some screeching feedback! Or I suppose, in your case, you could kick the reverb.

Thanks, Gnomon for giving me the courage to try making this myself. I saw your recipe and KuKuAhu's recipe and decided to try Ahu's hybrid commercial version. It exceeded my expectations, although I did have to tweak the recipe a little to my taste. I don't think I'll be buying the commercial stuff after doing this exercise. It really isn't that hard to do and considering that most of the exotic orgeat out there has to be mail-ordered (at least for me), it really was a no-brainer. One word of advise, though. Ahu's recipe calls for boiling the sugar, water and almond milk and that's a definite no-no. Believe me, it's very easy to go from boiling to disaster, because boiling can cause the sugar to burn the almond milk and "break" the emulsion. I know, because I did it while making the first batch. You just need to get the mixture hot enough for the sugar to dissolve thoroughly, while stirring constantly. BTW, I think the problem with the sugar crystals forming at the bottom occurs when there is some sugar granules that aren't fully dissolved in the solution before cooling.

On 2009-07-31 10:10, The Mayor Of Exotica wrote:
I have been reaaaaallly happy with the orzatta from Ferrara, which is based in NYC. They use sugar instead of corn syrup, and the taste and texture is a step up from Fee's, imhop. I have only found it at one store in Boston.

Agreed! I've used Ferrara for a few years now and really like it. The only way I've been able to get it, is on line here: http://www.ditalia.com/product/Ferrara_Almond_Orzata_Syrup/Beverages
I also agree with the poster who said it was a bit weaker in flavor, as I find myself using slightly more than a 1/2 oz in my Mai Tais.