Lemon Hart 151 question

Hello,

I know alot of recipes call for the Lemon Hart 151.As a Tennessee resident I am unable to find Lemon Hart in Nashville and apparently they can't get it.I do not think that the distributor for nashville has it.SO basically NONE of the stores here have it.As a double wammy I can't get alcohol shipped to me either, another great TN law.So this leaves me a bit high and dry with the lemon hart 151... well at least DRY.I can get Eldordo Demerara although I have not seen the high strength 151 Eldorado here either. Are there any subs that I can use for Lemon Hart 151? Can you use Eldorado? Is it basically that it is calling for a Demerara rum or is the 151 important? I would greatly appreciate any help on this subject as it seems there is no way I can get Lemon Hart 151 here in Nashville.

thanks,
Todd

Being an ex-Shelbyville resident I would like to help you out and ship you some. Send me a PM if interested.

-Joe

Buy it while you can. The word on the Ministry of Rum forum is that DDL (the distiller) is discontinuing production of Lemon Hart 151.

See: http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2713

Three possible replacements when supplies of the Lemon Hart 151 have run out:

1. El Dorado over proof. Limited distribution. I've never actually seen this up here in MA, but it is available in some states.

2. Goslings Black Seal 151. Not quite right but has a lot of flavor, similar color and consistency and packs a wallop. Pretty widely available.

3. Wood's Old Navy Demerara Rum. Not available in U.S. I picked some up passing through Heathrow. Bottled at 114 proof. Works really well in a Navy Grog.

Other than the increased alcohol "bite", does the flavor of the LH 80-proof Demerara differ much from the 151º? I haven't been able to find the 151, here, for years, anyway.
I absolutely prefer the taste of Lemon Hart over El Dorado. On the grounds of preserving the taste profile of a recipe, I'd be inclined to simply sub the LH 80º for the 151º, rather than switch brands, or to a non-Demerara 151º rum. Then I'd maybe add 1/2 ounce of Cruzan's 151, if I wanted to bump the alcohol back up a little.
Am I wrong on this - does the same quantity of LH 80º Demerara, in a cocktail, produce a taste significantly different from using the 151º? If so, does subbing, say, Gosling's or El Dorado's 151 bring the taste of that cocktail back closer to what it should be, than the LH 80º? If you have all of the rums under discussion, perhaps you could spend some time in the laboratory, and report the results.

LH does have a consistent flavor profile when you compare the 80 and 151, with the 151 obviously having more burn.

Unfortunately there really is no substitute that does better than just an OK job beyond the high-proof ED, which is OK, but just not close to LH 151.

If you cannot get LH, maybe experiment by mixing ED 5 or some other lower-proof (and lower price) demerara rum with a light-flavored high-proof like Wray & Nephew Overproof so there will minimal impact on the demerara flavor, which is what you are looking for as much as the 151 kick.

On 2009-06-08 12:04, leisure master wrote:
"LH does have a consistent flavor profile when you compare the 80 and 151, with the 151 obviously having more burn.

Thanks, that's what I had hoped. As long as the LH 80º Demerara is still around, we can use it to make the cocktails that called for the 151º. They'll taste essentially the same - just minus a bit of "burn".

"...so there will minimal impact on the demerara flavor, which is what you are looking for as much as the 151 kick."

That's what I was thinking, when I mentioned adding 1/2 oz. of Cruzan's 151, to bring the total alcohol up to the same level as 1 oz. of LH 151º Demerara. I figured the taste of 1/2 oz. of Cruzan would nearly disappear, underneath the much more assertive Demerara. But, if one wished to avoid any extraneous flavors, while getting the alcohol amount back up, then about 1/3 ounce of Everclear would also do it.
Personally, if a recipe calls for 151 Demerara, I'll probably just sub the same amount of LH 80 for LH 151, and be done with it.

I would order it on the internet anyway.

I live in a state where I am not legally allowed to have alcohol shipped to me.
However I have done it about twenty times, and so far nothing has happened.
The sellers will usually ship it to me and it always arrives.

One time I did have to travel to a UPS distribution center and present them with ID to prove I was over 21 before they would turn over my package.

I am now hearing that there is no cause for alarm. The production "shutdown" of LH151 is only to allow inventories to be reduced.

On 2009-06-10 07:04, rugbymatt wrote:
I am now hearing that there is no cause for alarm. The production "shutdown" of LH151 is only to allow inventories to be reduced.

Well, then, let's all pitch in and do our part to reduce those inventories.

I know this gets asked fairly often, but does anyone have a source for LH151 in the CT/MA/RI area? I'm about to order from California, and thought I'd ask here first.

Thanks!

Both Blanchards in Alston, and Martignetti's on Soldier's Field Rd are reliable sources, and at a good price.

I live in TN and have the same problem with supply. My solution has been to get out of state friends who can receive liquor shipments to let me send it to them when they are about to visit. I order a big supply every now and then and get a mule to bring it from FL or GA or SC. THere is usually someone to do that. I am about to do it again as my LH 151 is gone and my 80 proof is about gone.

As for substitution. If you can get El Do, you can probably get El Do 12 year, which is pretty cheap and a good sub for LH. Otherwise, you have to taste around. Try the Barbados Plantation rum. And don't be too picky. Realize that the recipe you have is perhaps an interpretaion of the original. We can't get the rums they used in 1950 to make a Nui Nui or 151 Swizzle. They don't compare. You are not going to "ruin" a drink by substituting. It may be different is all. And, it's probably different even if you had all the ingredients called for. Just pick a nice flavorful, relatively smooth rum. Clement, St. James Ambre, even Appleton VX. Use what you have. The Bum does! At the Hukilau seminar he ends up picking somethign else to go in the drinks than what the recipe calls for.

Thanks for the tips, I'll be heading up that way soon! Oddly, I have no problem getting LH 80 in CT.

I agree about substitutions. It's just annoying when you spend months acquiring (and making) all manner of odd ingredients, only to be left wondering what that 151 "extra kick" would have added.

Kappy's on Rt. 1 in Saugus is also a reliable source for he 151.

And you can stop at Kowloon at the same time, bonus!

[ Edited by: rev_thumper 2009-07-08 18:25 ]

FWIW, here's an online San Francisco store that sells LH 151: http://www.caskstore.com/lemon-hart-151pf.html

just ordered some lemonhart 151 here in the fraser valley (B.C.)took about amonth to get it but went and picked up my order today.they now have a bunch in stock.40$ with taxes Cnd funds.

Kappy's in Saugus, Mass. had a very healthy supply of Lemon Hart 80 and 151 this past weekend.

On 2009-08-17 19:16, rev_thumper wrote:
Kappy's in Saugus, Mass. had a very healthy supply of Lemon Hart 80 and 151 this past weekend.

Ssssshhhhhh!!!!!

In CT, you can only get LH 80 proof. I've asked a couple of stores that carry that about the 151 and they said not available in CT...so, in addition to not being able to buy liquor on Sundays and holidays (or after 9pm any other day), best bet is to leave CT for MA where you can get the 151...on Sunday! I've heard about Kappy's in Saugus...worth the trip to Kowloon. I've also gotten LH151 at a place called Wine Sellars (in that area - google it). In western MA, I'd highly recommend Table and Vine in West Springfield...went there yesterday (holiday): they had LH 151 (no 80) as well as several bottles of Rhum St James Royal Ambre (not Hors D' Age, but may as well get what you can - see the other thread on that). Also had several bottles of Fee Bros. Orgeat and Falernum...and the one other thing I've been casually keeping my eye out for - Marie Brizard's Orange Curacao (recommended by the Bum in one of his books).

Now if I could just get Pimento liquor without having to order it from Jamaica, I'd be all set.

Just found LH 80 & 151 for a good price at Wine & Cheese Cask on Washington in Somerville. 80 was under $15, and 151 was just over $20. How 'bout THAT?!?!

On 2009-09-08 19:38, toofastjim wrote:
so, in addition to not being able to buy liquor on Sundays and holidays (or after 9pm any other day),

What the hell is wrong with your state? Or better yet, how come masses of people aren't marching through the streets with torches to get the law changed?

"I am Lono!" -- Hale Ka'a Tiki Lounge

[ Edited by: arriano 2009-09-10 14:03 ]

Now if I could just get Pimento liquor without having to order it from Jamaica, I'd be all set.

Make your own with the recipe in Sippin' Safari. You'll like it.

yeah - CT rules suck, but fortunately its a small state & not too far to drive to get rum. Tough to have to wait a few weeks for home-made pimento, but maybe I'll give it a try.

On 2009-09-10 17:03, toofastjim wrote:
yeah - CT rules suck, but fortunately its a small state & not too far to drive to get rum. Tough to have to wait a few weeks for home-made pimento, but maybe I'll give it a try.

Did you try it out? My current bottle is over half empty so I started another aging on the shelf, that seems to keep me from running out.

In related news, Kappy's in Saugus, Mass. had a huge supply of Lemon Hart 80 and 151 this weekend.

haven't made it yet....maybe its just to easy to make a Mai Tai or an Ankle Breaker...and then its just downhill after that. Although now's probably time to start a batch - I the theory of starting a new one when the first one is half done.

Surdyks in Minneapolis has Lemon Hart 151 now. The lady at the check out gave me the impression it was new to the store.

I have just found a source! Martin's Wine Cellar in New Orleans will special order Lemon Hart 151 for only $25.99 a bottle. I ordered 2, but also tried to convince them to just buy a few cases and carry it. It seems like a good price. Mostly I've seen it around $32 a bottle.

Oh nooooo! I'm running low on Lemon Hart 151... Went to caskstore.com online and their software said they can't ship to Florida "due to state laws." Does anyone have any ideas (or personal success stories) on how I can obtain Lemon Hart 151 in Florida? I've tried, and exhausted, my local liquor connections who used to be able to order it for me at very reasonable prices. But now it's as if the supply has disappeared. I'll keep looking, and calling around, and if I do come up with something, I'll post it here. But I've been trying for a week and am at a point where I thought it would be reasonable to post a message here on TC. I've even emailed the US importer from the back of the bottle, Pernod Ricard, and have not gotten a response yet. I'm not ready to give up yet - this is a great rum for great cocktails.

Thanks!

Try drinkupny.com. They stock it and I've never had any problems with them shipping to Florida.

dang, i used to buy it in Pinellas County, they're out and list it it as discontinued...

I don't think it is discontinued currently. A store near me just restocked on it last week. Last I heard the company who bought it out was going to keep it available.

well, the "old version" that Ace Explorer referenced is indeed discontinued and no longer made or distributed by Pernod. there are tons of threads around here re the new producer and the new red-label version. which did you see in SD?

And the sad fact is that the new 151 is just not the same than the old - it's better than having NUTHIN, as is the case with the regular Lemonhart Demerara, which I personally miss the most.

I still have most of my hoard. :)

On 2012-08-11 13:58, lunavideogames wrote:
A store near me just restocked on it last week.

Which store is this?

On 2012-08-11 20:50, bigbrotiki wrote:
And the sad fact is that the new 151 is just not the same than the old - it's better than having NUTHIN, as is the case with the regular Lemonhart Demerara, which I personally miss the most.

Sven, what a tragedy, am I to understand that with a change in ownership came a change in formulation/flavor? Oh well... I think the yellow label lasted just under two years - I recall just two years ago at Hukilau 2011 that I learned the "good" Lemon Hart Demerara 151 was coming back. Thanks to TikiHardBop, I just ordered from drinkupny.com, and the "new" stuff will be better than nothing. I have just about 2 ounces left of the yellow label and I'll definitely be comparing old and new when it comes in. Then I'll try to remember the "old" and move on... Part of being into tiki culture includes knowing how to "survive" through various changes. This is just one more change. But at least I got to enjoy some of the yellow label. Chances are slim to none that the current manufacturer would bump up the rum to what the old was like. So if the rum did change, then this is what we get for the foreseeable future.

On 2012-08-14 10:13, AceExplorer wrote:

On 2012-08-11 20:50, bigbrotiki wrote:
And the sad fact is that the new 151 is just not the same than the old - it's better than having NUTHIN, as is the case with the regular Lemonhart Demerara, which I personally miss the most.

Sven, what a tragedy, am I to understand that with a change in ownership came a change in formulation/flavor? Oh well... I think the yellow label lasted just under two years - I recall just two years ago at Hukilau 2011 that I learned the "good" Lemon Hart Demerara 151 was coming back. Thanks to TikiHardBop, I just ordered from drinkupny.com, and the "new" stuff will be better than nothing. I have just about 2 ounces left of the yellow label and I'll definitely be comparing old and new when it comes in. Then I'll try to remember the "old" and move on... Part of being into tiki culture includes knowing how to "survive" through various changes. This is just one more change. But at least I got to enjoy some of the yellow label. Chances are slim to none that the current manufacturer would bump up the rum to what the old was like. So if the rum did change, then this is what we get for the foreseeable future.

Please post your comparison here. I have 2 bottles left of my old stock. It would have lasted much longer, but some of my new favorite recipes call for more LH 151. My 12 bottles is down to 2 and a half. If the new stuff is not to compare, I may change my drinking strategy...

BTW, Ed took his new stuff to Martin Cate at SC and they shot video of the tasting as they compared old and new:

Old Lemon Hart 151 vs new Lemon Hart 151

I think it's fair to say there is a difference in the 2 formulations, but it's pretty small. To me, it's most apparent in that the aroma of the new Lemon Hart 151 is less smoky. I rarely sip LH 151 neat.

That being said, I don't know that I could tell the difference between a Jet Pilot made with old LH151 and a Jet Pilot made with new LH151 but I certainly can tell when I make a Jet Pilot with another 151 like Cruzan or Goslings.

kevin

On 2012-08-14 14:34, heylownine wrote:
That being said, I don't know that I could tell the difference between a Jet Pilot made with old LH151 and a Jet Pilot made with new LH151

You can't.

And I haven't really noticed a difference in any other cocktails.

I haven't compared the two versions side by side -- I have one unopened bottle of the old LH 151 that I'm saving -- but I do think the new stuff is very good. I think the fact that respected bars like the Mai Kai are using it is testament to its quality.

To the folks who have taste tested the new vs old LH151: did you take it straight, on the rocks, in a cocktail? Never been in the habit of trying it head-on myself. Do the same tasting rules apply for the hi-test hooch as well? Just wondering.

My "new" Lemon Hart order will be arriving on Monday next week. I'll try and compare it both straight-up and mixed 1:1 with clean, pure water. I'll post my thoughts here. I have to be very careful because I unknowingly drew down my "old" Lemon Hart to just about 2 ounces because I was intrigued with making Wasabi Sours for a couple of weeks. Still, it will be fun, regardless of the fact that I will run out of the old. I do have to decide what to do with the old bottle, though. Can I sell it on eBay and get rich? Probably not. And my tiki mug collection has already filled the space I have, so it's not like I want to add the bottle to my mug shelf. So many questions, so few answers. Obviously there's only one thing to do -- sit down and have a nice refreshing tropical cocktail!

. . . or four . . .

On 2012-08-16 10:21, AceExplorer wrote:
I do have to decide what to do with the old bottle, though...

I'd keep re-filling it with the new LH151. The power of suggestion, still pouring from the yellow label bottle - might trick your mind into not noticing any deficiencies in the new. :wink:

On 2012-08-16 06:36, Kill Devil wrote:
To the folks who have taste tested the new vs old LH151: did you take it straight, on the rocks, in a cocktail? Never been in the habit of trying it head-on myself. Do the same tasting rules apply for the hi-test hooch as well? Just wondering.

When taste testing 151, do not swallow it! You can actually roll it around in your mouth until it evaprotates. Swollowing it is when it burns your throat...

On 2012-08-18 20:19, Limbo Lizard wrote:
I'd keep re-filling it with the new LH151. The power of suggestion, still pouring from the yellow label bottle - might trick your mind into not noticing any deficiencies in the new. :wink:

Heheheh, I hadn't thought of that!

Today is the much-anticipated delivery day, I may be able to test as soon as tonight. Lots of good suggestions have been posted here. I will post my tasting result.