War of the Carvers

I've never really liked the "Mai-Tiki" style- too cartoony for me and it's taken over Florida like a plague, (and I don't even want to mention the 10,000 Coombs wannabes out there- all that misguided effort ..sigh..) but thought this article was interesting:

http://www.floridatoday.com/!NEWSROOM/columnstoryP1112BILLY.htm

[ Edited by: fatuhiva on 2003-11-15 23:43 ]

What a great article, indeed! Those crazy Floridians.

I myself am more into the traditional tiki as well. Being that I live in Cocoa though I am constantly seeing Waynes tikis everywhere, everywhere! On the other hand though it's pretty cool to see any thing related with tiki. Any time I see one it gives me a little tiki bump. The artical is pretty interesting. I think the moral of the story is "don't piss off Wayne Coombs".
He is a big man!

Fatuhiva,
Wayne Coombs is a brilliant artist. And, his traditional tiki work is awesome...if you haven't seen it, you should. So why do we Florida bums carve non-traditional tikis? For me, it's all about the $$$ market. I doubt I could make a mortgage payment, two car payments and feed three kids if I was only carving/selling to tiki affectionados.

I'd say he's more the Chuck Berry of tiki.

Well, without the bathroom cam stuff......

Coombs still reads the riot act to tiki carvers -- too numerous to count -- who go to excruciating lengths to copy his style.

I'll be doing this with Tiki Bars real soon!

I had the pleasure to meet Wayne at the Hukilau, he's a good guy. If you think Florida has a bunch of Mai Tikis, you should see Waikiki. I must have counted a dozen Mai Tikis over there. You wouldn't think people in Hawaii would call Florida for Tikis, but, apparently they do.
Mahalo,
Al

I suppose a mai-tiki is better than no tiki at all, but its still a goofy looking tiki to me. All these guys that copy his style should just open the book of tiki for some new inspiration.. I'd love to go buy a local tiki, but the only thing anyone carves around here has big lips and jimmy carter teeth- except for the old guy down in the keys, I try to grab at least one 60's style tiki every time im down there- but he also carves the goof type tikis.

I'm not saying there isnt room for the Mai-tiki style, I just think "OK, its been done, we get it, move on"

every tiki out here looks like a cartoon. As Flounder said it gives you a "tiki bump" to see one, but then i think "oh another biglips" It's kind of like the differnece between finding an Aloha Hut tiki mug in a thrift and finding something from Accoutrements.

..at one time Florida was full of cool looking tikis (Tiki Gardens, Cypress Gardens, Hawaiian Inn, Witco, etc) but now its mostly Mai Tikis. It's too bad the style wasn't mixed up a little more- I doubt customers demanded the Jimmy Carter tiki or they wouldnt buy... Wayne can carve an awesome traditional style tiki.. I've seen it done.. but for some reason the only ones I've ever seen in the wild are the goofs.. and pretty much every other carver I've seen knocks off the "goof style"

and that's why I have Keigs carve my tikis and ship them from the Pacific Northwest! hahaha

tikimon- have you ever tried selling other styles? I would think a 60's or traditional style tiki would go over alot better since everyone here is completely saturated when it comes to goofy-style tikis. I've considered starting a tiki business here specifically to carve tikis that DON'T look like wayne's.. I would love to revive the Milan Guanko style and start getting those to sprout up around here. But the thing is, I don't carve tikis. So I was thinking I might try to commission other carvers and start a business that way, but then I thought, ahhh thats so much hassle opening a shop, so then i thought, well maybe I could do it on the weekends selling them along A1A or something, but then i thought "I'll need a big truck and a place to store them" so i'm still working on the model hehehe

On 2003-11-16 09:42, fatuhiva wrote:
I'd love to go buy a local tiki, but the only thing anyone carves around here has big lips and jimmy carter teeth- except for the old guy down in the keys...

Yeah, you'd think that a carver from FL would want to carve in their own style to stand out from everyone else! But then again, a lot of them think probably think they are. Some of their styles are so influenced by Wayne Coombs and they don't even know it because that's the only style they've ever seen.

I think a carver with an alternative style could be really successful there.

RevBambooBen wrote:
"Coombs still reads the riot act to tiki carvers -- too numerous to count -- who go to excruciating lengths to copy his style."

GO GET'EM WAYNE!

[ Edited by: SugarCaddyDaddy on 2003-11-16 10:33 ]

..."You wouldn't think people in Hawaii would call Florida for Tikis, but, apparently they do."

I just got an order from Hawaii for one of my contrete Tikis - and I'm in Oregon!!

Fatuhiva,
You are right. There are definitely some knock-offs out there copying Wayne's work verbatim...I could name a few but I don't want anyone to get hurt. But there are also several carvers that have found their own non-traditional style, and niche and are doing quite well. And that, my friend is the beauty of art. You buy what you like. It doesn't matter how much it costs or how accurate a reproduction it is...all that really matters is that YOU like and appreciate it. Re: Jimmy Carter teeth and big lips...what do expect, this is the SOUTH ya know! Ha ha ha...

P.S. I just posted a big-lipper on the Carver forum...just for you bruddah! : )

[ Edited by: Tiki Mon on 2003-11-16 11:39 ]

Wayne has set the style to the point he defines FL tiki.

hahaha yeah I guess it being the South pretty much explains the whole situation

I have nothing but respect for Wayne...the man is very underrated in the versatile department, too. Wayne is an icon and an innovator, an American original. He built something from nothing. As for the copycats...it's gotten so repetitive, flooded, and bad it's a joke. I visualize the rinky dink highway signs you see a lot of on the 2-lane blacktops of Georgia and Florida: "Peaches, Boiled Peanuts, Fireworks, Flea Market, (add) Tikis"."Oh, look, Hal, Tikis...should we stop the RV?" "What is a tiki, Ehthel?" -"I think it just means any big half-assed goofy face carved into a log...Do you at least want to get some boiled peanuts?"

hahahahahaha ....mmmmmm boiled peanuts

dont get me worng, im not knocking wayne- the guy is a great carver that I've seen many styles come out of- my beef is with the big-lips goofy style tiki that was once innovated by Wayne, and then proceeded to get knocked-off into oblivion multiplying like a virus and pushing out other styles like an invasive species. This tiki MUST BE STOPPED!

hey my 2 cents wirth, first of "the old guy in the keys" is Richard Miller .he taught me a lot of useful information and took me and my partner loonatiki under his wing and taught us the basics. and to him i owe much of the inspiration to start carving tikis.this guy was doing it since the 60's in oregon. and worked his way to the Fl Keys a long ass time ago .he doesnt make "goofy tikis" he's very old now ,and doesnt turn out many more tikis. in fact last time we were over there, he wasnt carving any more.his apprentice Chris now is turning out some bad ass tikis ,and the goofy ones are due to Richard buying Tikis from other tiki carvers who have trouble selling their shit.as for Wayne well I'm just gonna say Ive been asked many times to make one of His Fl. style tikis and i always point the Buyer in his direction. I gotta say while there are a lot of copycats which some are/were guys that worked for him, florida also has some really different carvers too. on tikicentral alone there is about 3 and none do waynes style.there is a carver outta florida named David landry who has got a style all his own while they might be too cartoony/ colorful for most purists, i totally feel this guys shit.oh and those big lipped tikis you see everwhere are there because they simply sell better than any other tiki on the planet, those things are everywhere man. I'm proud that Florida has a State Tiki.how many other states can say that? ..Viva el Wayne!!! Kreepy tiki Jaksin

Jaksin,
Nice words, man. I was just talkin' to somebody over in Tampa who just bought a couple of tikis from old man Miller last week. I guess he's still chippin' away...damn, I hope I'm still cuttin' when I'm that old.

The other carver in the "Carver Wars" article should be mentioned. His name is Ed Volitano of Ed's Heads. He's an fine chap whose been doing his own thing for almost thirty years. His newer work is pretty cool. Even if you don't like Ed's stuff, you have to admire his dedication to the art.

Fatuhiva, I don't know if this will work but maybe you could get together with the Aggie boys at UF and genetically engineer a palm beetle that is attracted to big lips and Jimmy Carter teeth. hehehe

[ Edited by: filslash 2008-09-06 19:02 ]

ahahaha thats a good on tikimon! if only i could!

Here is a pic of a tiki carved from coconut wood that i bought from the guy down in the keys.. its one of my fave tikis- that coconut wood is really nice and solid, with a great yellow tone:

"the old guy in the keys" is Richard Miller

I have seen one of these recently on the 100 block of Duval here in Key West and asked it's owner where he bought it. He said "up the Keys". Great but where? He didn't know, so guys at what mile marker (as we describe locations in the FL Keys) is he located? I would love to get one if it is not too far or expensive.

He's in islamorada, not quite sure which mile marker though. but his roadside shop is called" Tiki and company" and they do have a webpage.Ill post a link as soon as i find it. later, kreepy tiki jaksin

Genetically engineer a palm beetle that is attracted to big lips and Jimmy Carter teeth.
Thats some funny shit!

Fatuhiva,
If you talk to Wayne he will tell you that his business has been very up and down over the years. Right now, he is about as busy as he has ever been but he has faced some pretty lean periods and isn't sure his current prosperitiy will last.
The same thing is true with the folks at the Hawaian Inn. They have basically done what they have had to do to survive, even if it sometimes offends our revivalist sensabilities.
As much as I like tiki mugs and postcards, and menus and surviving tiki bars, I've found I like the people who founded and worked in these businesses as much as I like the cool "artifacts" they created or used as part of their trade.
To me, it's kind of like a civil war buff having the chance to sit down and talk with the last surviving veterans of Gettysburg. Nothing but awe and appreciation.
KG

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-11-17 14:19 ]

this reminds me of a story Leroy of OA told me about some of the older Calli carvers that worked for him had the "My style or carving is mo betta den your style". It dosen't matter wat coast your from, there's gon be som friendly & not so friendly comp out there. Just gotta deal with it ya. no worries

I'm sure some peeps on TC like certain carvers style more than mine ... SHIT I like some carvers stuff betta den my own, so what! buy wat ya like! wetha its big lips, big hips or big t-ts. buy wat u like.

Geoff, wise words as always.
Gecko, I'm going to have to go with big t-ts

I think Fatuhiva was just speaking his mind and I can respect that. The fact that he stood his ground is even more respectful.

Can't we all just get along?

Anyhow I'm the best carver there is.

FLOUNDER,
AWWWWRIGHT! meeee to braddah!
oh, great article by da way! tanks fo sharin'

Fatuhiva,
I want your backyard...the pool, the tikis, the landscaping...all of it.

On 2003-11-17 09:11, tikijaksin wrote:
He's in islamorada, not quite sure which mile marker though. but his roadside shop is called" Tiki and company" and they do have a webpage.Ill post a link as soon as i find it. later, kreepy tiki jaksin

Thanks buddy, I can get up their and I look forward to the URL link.

On 2003-11-17 14:18, Kailuageoff wrote:
Fatuhiva,
If you talk to Wayne he will tell you that his business has been very up and down over the years. Right now, he is about as busy as he has ever been but he has faced some pretty lean periods and isn't sure his current prosperitiy will last.
The same thing is true with the folks at the Hawaian Inn. They have basically done what they have had to do to survive, even if it sometimes offends our revivalist sensabilities.
As much as I like tiki mugs and postcards, and menus and surviving tiki bars, I've found I like the people who founded and worked in these businesses as much as I like the cool "artifacts" they created or used as part of their trade.
To me, it's kind of like a civil war buff having the chance to sit down and talk with the last surviving veterans of Gettysburg. Nothing but awe and appreciation.

Boy am I with you on this, that is why I stood up for that new place in Min. with the "electric Key West" Tikis, because it is a business and they must survive and profit first, the rest is gravy, and at least it has Tikis.

Even out of the Tiki masks I brought back to sell the big teeth and lips (though mine are a BIT more 50's-60's old school) Tikis sold for for MUCH more money than the other stuff and the more eerie traditional stuff I am virtually giving away! (I have even decided to just keep the last one for myself since it is not worth selling it) :cry: I am afraid such would also be the case with a classic style tiki bar with a more dark and eerie atmosphere.

Gecko, I'm going to have to go with big hips :wink:

tikimon- its all plants dude!

Just go to the home depot and pick out the "tropical looking" stuff, plant em, fetilize em and our local brevard conditions do the rest!

Walmart on A1A has alot of tropical plants very cheap too

I like to use:

monsteras
alocasias
heliconia
anthurium
xanthosomas

etc

http://www.tikicompany.com/
heres his link. check em out.

On 2003-11-17 15:15, FLOUNDERart wrote:
I think Fatuhiva was just speaking his mind and I can respect that. The fact that he stood his ground is even more respectful.

Can't we all just get along?

Anyhow I'm the best carver there is.

I didn't mean to say Fatuhiva shouldn't speak his mind. He's a good dude and has contributed alot to this board over the years, and I've heard the same thing from others about Wayne's carvings. I think part of the issue is Wayne has been carving so long, has taught others the style, and is so prolific. His stuff, or stuff like it, is everywhere.
Recently I even saw a burlap painting with one of Wayne's tikis on it.
Yuuuccckkk!!!
:lol:

thats it!! ,i think the best solution to all this is have the first annual "Florida Tiki Brawl " strategically held somewhere near the Mai kai ,will sure get us a good head count .we can charge addmission,take bets ,drink up,and check out da chiks while we slug with any, and all who disagree with us fist to fist. (no chainsaws/chissels allowed)unless you guys gals think otherwise.whaddya think?

jaksin,
Why don't you meet up with all of us at the Hawaiian Inn in Daytona on Jan. 17th? Check your chissels at the door though...

[ Edited by: Kailuageoff on 2003-11-18 10:12 ]

Jaksin,
Yeah, but instead of battle, let's make a reality TV show - Florida Tiki Carver Challenge. One episode would feature us all trying to carve a perfect likeness of Jimmy Carter using only our fingernails. Points would be awarded for speed, biggest lips and most teeth.

"Florida Tiki Brawl"
Are they aloud to throw sawdust in the eyes?

I'm glad I'm a carver and not one of those burlap painting sissy's.

for the record, yes that is the dude down in the keys.. he carves a nice tiki. I especially like the coconut wood ones, but last time i was there i didnt see any out.

Hawaii Get um! some da best...just go try find um cuz.

Bettah I tell you: Vili Manako and Gecko.

Da Braddahs can carve...Beeg Island wood too.

You like intro?

I haven't spent much time in Florida, so I'm a bit ignorant of the scene, but the idea of roadside Tiki stands and carvers battling over turf and styles fascinates me. I mean the fact that more than a couple guys can make an actual living selling their stuff, and to the locals at that... you don't know how lucky you are. Even if the locals prefer Tikis that look like Jimmy Carter(!!!), they know what Tikis are, and THEY BUY THEM!!
Here on the Oregon Coast, there are tons of roadside carver shops. Every small town has it's local yocal doing chainsaw art on mostly cedar logs. It's all bears, seals,and the occaisional Bigoot. A few miles up the highway there are a couple guys right next to each other. One does really beautifol dolphins and whales and such. The other cranks out all kinds of stuff like Vikings, miners and cowboys, as well as the more common stuff. All with really incredible detail, and at an amazing rate. The other day as I was passing by, to my amazement, I saw what looked to be a Giant Tiki in the lot. This sucker looked to be about ten feet tall. Everyday I wake with the intention of going up to take some pictures and have a chat, and everyday since, it's been storming sideways so bad I don't want to leave the shop. As soon as I get the chance, I will take and post Pictures.
In the meantime, I would love to see pics of some of the roadside stands, and shops around Fla. and beyond.

DaTikiMon wrote

"Hawaii Get um! some da best...just go try find um cuz.

Bettah I tell you: Vili Manako and Gecko.

Da Braddahs can carve...Beeg Island wood too"

Ehhhhhhh who dis! Big Kelly? if so, I love ya cuz!!!! choke mahaloz to you brah! If this is Braddah K, you peopo here have to go see dis mans restaurant!!!!! da bes new restaraunt in Waikiki!! HO! and all da employes have been drilled with da spirit of ALOHA! I haven't seen one stink eye yet from dem!

I love dem new tikis you just put in, Vili did a great job.

eh Tikimon no wories we geeeev'em! I get your back anytime brah, shootz cuz!

You peoples are too funny. I'm glad I at least live in "North Florida".

I like everyones tikis.....not just some. I think favoritism sucks, but that's just me. It's all about tiki. Not who does this and who does that. Geez why make an issue about it anyway. Who cares really. "Longboard vs. Shortboard". Same thing.........it's all about surfing.

Does this tiki below look like like Jimmy Carter? I personally would hope not..............If it does please tell me and I will definitely do something about it.

You know, what's funny too is that I ship more tikis to California/Arizona than I do anywhere else in the country. Don't ask "me" why. I already know...... You figure it out.

Furthermore, this is all I have to say about this whole subject......I have said enough.

I have enjoyed reading all the post from everyone on this topic even though it's actually irrelevant. You know what's funny too, is that you can really tell alot about someone just from the way they express themselves in writing.

"Intellect vs. Stupidity".

The only difference between a "rut" and a "groove" is in your own frame of mind....

Peace,

Gary

[ Edited by: tikifreak on 2004-01-09 12:39 ]

Nice Tiki, Tikifreak. I am new to Tiki and have been carving for a few months. Didn't even know there was a "Florida Tiki" style until people starting whining about on this forum (a strange thing here in tiki central?). My carvings have been more traditional I suppose so far, but after reading this thread and enjoying the great Florida Tiki's my next Tiki will have huge lips and teeth and perhaps a big ole peanut carved into his head. Just to be contrary and piss off the closed minds. Keep up the good work Florida Carvers!

On 2003-11-24 07:41, McDougall wrote:
I am new to Tiki and have been carving for a few months. Didn't even know there was a "Florida Tiki" style until people starting whining about on this forum (a strange thing here in tiki central?). My carvings have been more traditional I suppose so far, but after reading this thread and enjoying the great Florida Tiki's my next Tiki will have huge lips and teeth and perhaps a big ole peanut carved into his head. Just to be contrary and piss off the closed minds. Keep up the good work Florida Carvers!

So McDougall, if we don't like them all, we are closed minded? I don't like all kinds of music, does that make me close minded musically too? I'd bet you don't like all kinds of music either.

I have my favorite styles and Florida is not one of them. In my opinion, that doesn't make me closed minded at all. Isn't beauty is in the eye of the beholder?

You sound like one of those types of people who think, "you're closed minded unless you agree with me."

Mmmmm, maybe your right, maybe "closed minded" was a poor choice. Just trying to show my displeasure for the bashing of some very good local artists. It seems (to me) that a type of art was being pigeonholed and ridiculed. Kinda like someone ridiculing all of Rock or Hip Hop or classical music in one swoop, a bit closed minded, no? Some of the comments have seemed elitist to me, saying one type of Tiki is somehow better or cooler or whatever, I've seen the same here with art. I'm annoyed by that. I don't want to come across to harsh either, just a discussion. I'm not calling anyone closed minded or trying to insult, apologies if I did. As far as are people copying Waynes work all over Florida? I don't see that at all. All carvers will be inspired other art, maybe it's Wayne or Moai or Gecho or likely a combination of many.

On 2003-11-18 10:04, tikijaksin wrote:
thats it!! ,i think the best solution to all this is have the first annual "Florida Tiki Brawl " strategically held somewhere near the Mai kai ,will sure get us a good head count .we can charge addmission,take bets ,drink up,and check out da chiks while we slug with any, and all who disagree with us fist to fist. (no chainsaws/chissels allowed)unless you guys gals think otherwise.whaddya think?

Man, I hate to break bad news, y'all, but Wayne is a BIG guy... would snap all of your collarbones like a twig. I would not mess with that dude under any circumstances lest I come out of it looking like I'd been run through a chipper. I'd still like to watch all you Florida cats tie one on and do some good old fashioned parking lot 'boxin, though. (If Wayne ain't involved) my money is straight up on Jaksin!

I have yet to reply to this thread because:
A. I'm a girl and don't do the "brawl stuff"
B. I'm a hobbyist and don't sell hardly anything.
However, this has been fascinating to follow. I have few regrets in life. Yet, one is tiki related. Last summer Gecko was in So. Cal (a really large area for such small initials). I had the honor of meeting him at the Aloha Cruz show. However, he and Chiki(Diablo tiki) were both hooking up at Al and Shel's for a carve-a-thon that same weekend. I had some lame ass "boyfriend of the moment" excuse for not driving down to the carve-a-thon in San Diego. Maybe I was A LOT intimidated by their skill (I could use the girl excuse here, but I'm going to stick with the "I just goof off with it, and they make $$$, and they're WAY BETTER THAN ME!!!!" excuse.) Monkeyman showed up and carved with the big dogs (huevos grandes senior!). Wish I had seen this event. If you Florida guys have this carve-a-thon/brawl, the Mai Tais would flow and the spectators would be inspired. F%$@ the brawl, get together and carve...wish I would have.