On 2014-02-19 18:54, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

On 2014-02-19 13:55, Fez Moai wrote:

On 2014-02-19 13:28, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

Fate, I am suspecting you are using an alias user name....

LOL, Fate, since you've been gone you probably don't know that punk here is the self-appointed tiki police. More like an annoying neighborhood watchman, like George Zimmerman.

So says the newbie who hasn't been here two months yet & is not even part of this community
I will remind everyone it was Fez who started this Rufus debacle in the first place
and his only reason for being here is to sell shit to you.

LOL. I wasn't able to post the video earlier, but here it is. Newbie, oh, you're killing me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

Meanwhile, in Tikiland, officer punk rides around looking for "newbies" to harass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyhq8rOgaiA

Please stop.

OK, It's finally happened, the bile on this topic has overwhelmed my concern about the fish. I won't be checking in on this anymore. I've only been a member for a few years but I've on the site weekly then daily since 2004 maybe it's time for another "great blackout".

bye, tikicoma

On 2014-02-19 23:34, TikiTacky wrote:
Please stop.

I understand what you're are getting at but this has gone past the point of what is acceptable and has to be addressed.

On 2014-02-19 18:54, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

So says the newbie who hasn't been here two months yet & is not even part of this community
I will remind everyone it was Fez who started this Rufus debacle in the first place
and his only reason for being here is to sell shit to you.

Who the hell are you who decides who is and who isn't a part of this community?

To have all the hard work we did end with the new owner changing his mind at the last minute was a slap in the face to all of us. Right now, Hidden Los Angeles is figuring out what to do about the funds that were raised, as this is a unique situation to them, even with all their experience doing good deeds like this. My personal feeling is that the funds should be kept in a secure place for a certain amount of time, because I just have a feeling this might not be over yet. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Bahooka owner suddenly changes his mind once again. And IF that happens, the funds and amazing offers of help that Lynn (Hidden L.A.) was able to procure will still be in place and ready to put into motion. Damon's has made it clear that they're leaving their welcome mat out for Rufus should that happen. Should he become available again, they want him, period.

Those of us who were in the thick of this are going to find an evening in the next week or so to finally meet each other in person, talk about this experience and discuss what might happen next. We want to stay prepared, should this situation change again. We're hoping Jorge will accept our invitation to join us at that meeting, as he deserves a "thank you" dinner, big time. When Lynn figures out what to do about the funds that were raised, one of us will let you know. One thing I can assure you: These funds will NOT go to the new Bahooka owner. They were raised specifically to purchase Rufus from him and help cover the costs of moving him to a new home.

This was the third time that Thor and I have teamed up for a good Tiki cause or project. He is truly the best kind of person anyone would ever be lucky enough to know and I am proud to call him my friend.

I really look forward to meeting Lynn and Fez Moai. Lynn did all this work for free, just because she felt this was the right thing to do AND because her group, HIdden Los Angeles, reaches so many people, she knew she had the community support -- much like we do in our Tiki community, but on an even larger, local scale. Otto von Stroheim made Lynn possible, as he's the one who told me to call her -- and I am so glad I did.

I also look forward to meeting Fez Moai in person. He's the one who found out about Rufus needing a new home and had the good sense to tell one of the most valued people in our community (Sven Kirsten) about this situation, because Fez knew that people would listen to Sven in a way they might not listen to someone else. Throughout all of this, Fez kept in constant contact with me and Lynn, giving us whatever updated information he could about this situation because, at the beginning, Fez was the only one who had interaction with the new owner and Jorge (Rufus' caretaker), who also put his trust in him. None of this would have happened without Fez Moai's help.

I am finally getting a chance to read the posts from the past few days, and there are some accusations being thrown at Fez, which have nothing to do with the great service he did for this cause. This kind of treatment hits a particularly personal nerve in me and some of you know why. I'm choosing to meet Fez in person and give him a hug for all he did to help. I hope some of you do the same when you meet him.

I also want to say THANK YOU to everyone for contributed their thoughts to this thread and to those people who sent me some really nice personal messages. There were some excellent ideas you shared, and your support kept us going more than you know. Hang tight -- we may need it again.

~ Kari Hendler
(Former Assistant Editor/Writer for Tiki Magazine)

[ Edited by: Tangaroa-Ru 2014-02-20 03:14 ]

[ Edited by: Tangaroa-Ru 2014-02-20 03:15 ]

Kari so many points in your above post make me want to reach through the computer and give you a big hug.

Thanks for being so gracious and informative.

Please let us know if you hear of any new developments with Rufus and his fellow fish.

As for the member who contributes nothing but never ending negativity to these boards all you have to do is turn to Sven for his well phrased post from the last Bahooka (shitstorm) thread :

On 2014-01-18 21:44, bigbrotiki wrote:
Is this a friggin' sorority, or the Tiki community !?

Get over yourself because EVERYONE is tired of it.

Thanks Kari, Sven, Fez Moai, Lynn and Tom...this has not been an easy road, but you all did so well. I have to agree with you in being prepared for a change in the future. It hurts to read some of the posts in this thread but I still wish for the best for Rufus and truly appreciate the wonderful updates that are provided.

Hang in there everyone and a big shout out to Jorge for keeping Rufus safe in his current world.

[i]On 2014-02-20 03:08, Tangaroa-Ru wrote:
My personal feeling is that the funds should be kept in a secure place for a certain amount of time, because I just have a feeling this might not be over yet. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Bahooka owner suddenly changes his mind once again. And IF that happens, the funds and amazing offers of help that Lynn (Hidden L.A.) was able to procure will still be in place and ready to put into motion. Damon's has made it clear that they're leaving their welcome mat out for Rufus should that happen. Should he become available again, they want him, period.

. . . . One thing I can assure you: These funds will NOT go to the new Bahooka owner. They were raised specifically to purchase Rufus from him and help cover the costs of moving him to a new home.

A tasteless act which is destined to fail. While Damon's would get great press by saving Rufus, the new owner deserves only heckling for holding Rufus hostage.

Very long winded post – you’ve been warned. You are free to move on, don’t bitch about the length if you decide to read. I took up no real estate in this thread for 22 pages so just consider this my catch up.

Having spent a lot of Sunday at the former Bahooka…some thoughts (with some of your quotes)

If the new owner wants the money, then he has to get it only under the condition that Rufus's current situation is disrupted as little as possible. I would still have major trust issues, though, as I agree that it seems at least on the surface that the new owner really just wants the money to go toward his remodel and he couldn't care less about Rufus and the other fish.

“on the surface” should be the key point of your post here.
How many of you have actually SPOKEN to the new owner, considering all the accusations. I have looked back in this thread a bit, and I see you people referring to him as a “scumbag, whack job, opportunist, hostage taker.” Really?

One would think by some of your attitudes that he was tossing the fish out back in the trash. Far from the truth. After buying the place, he perhaps wanted them out, and put out the word to find them homes, so he can get his business going. This wasnt just one or two tanks taking up some space. This is a WHOLE BUILDING full of tanks that need to be powered and not disturbed until they have new homes. Downtime is money lost. I would think any reasonable business owner trying to start a new place would want them out sooner than later - hard to do much till they are. What is so horrible about this to deserve this angry mob and public ridicule?

I am guessing he perhaps saw all the fish with the same mind (unlike many of you that don’t express any care of the rest of the animals in there) – why would he be expected to have knowledge or any value of one fish in particular buying the place from a party that was NOT Bahooka? But wow – that makes him a scumbag?? Why is it a crime – for someone that bought a building, to want that building cleared, and then suddenly realize the value of something in that building and the risk moving it and then deciding to keep it there, though such a change in plan would involve a fair amount of new money to have to spend? Do any of you have an extra 12K sitting around you can just come up in a moments notice? You all think hes a “scumbag” but the fact that most of you here seem to ONLY care about ONE of the fish rather than all the fish is stranger to me, never mind that you ONLY care about money going to Rufus IF he is going to be moved – the more risky choice for his health. Some of you - your thinking is strange to say the least as you claim to have Rufus’s best interest in mind.
and to whoever said “the problem is Chinese restaurants come and go” and it will “likely go out of business soon..not the greatest location”.
Really? I would correct your statement and say MANY restaurants come and go of ALL TYPES even in great locations. I can also point you to many Chinese restaurants that have been around here for 20 years +. You think Rufus will live another 20 years? Who knows…
Anyway, there are a TON of apartments around there – and a lot of Asian people not far – so what do you base this on?

All that said…(no Im not done yet)

On 2014-02-22 22:32, christiki295 wrote:
. . . . One thing I can assure you: These funds will NOT go to the new Bahooka owner. They were raised specifically to purchase Rufus from him and help cover the costs of moving him to a new home.

So what if Rufus (an extremely old Pacu who has had only ONE HOME for 37 years) didn't survive the move across town? What if Rufus literally died the day of or the next day?
WHO would the mob here all blame then? Still the new "Bahooka" owner, even if he had already offered to build Rufus a bigger tank right there - perhaps asking for a little help with funding – esp seeing that people WANT to help fund his care. Seems like a reasonable thought on the new owners part to decide to keep the fish there, hope to get help with funding when he sees it already happening.

Also, what would happen to the money donated if Rufus DIES DURING THE MOVE?
I feel like some of you would STILL just say “oh well, at least we got Rufus out of the hands of this “scumbag” business owner none of us know, but already apparently hate on at least 10 different levels”

Do you people actually care about Rufus (never mind any of the other fish) and what is best for Rufus or only that it all goes the way you want it to, even though moving the fish across town is clearly the riskier choice for its health and well being?

A tasteless act which is destined to fail. While Damon's would get great press by saving Rufus, the new owner deserves only heckling for holding Rufus hostage.

let me get this straight...
So Damon's would get great press for the welfare of Rufus (if he survived the move which you would ALL rather risk than anything else) but, if new owner perhaps builds a much bigger tank...making the move across town NOT NECESSARY, he gets only heckling and gets no support for the new fish tank, AND is considered a "hostage taker".

That's a bit dramatic don't you think?
btw, that tank hasnt been appropriate for that fish for years – I don’t care what the handwritten sign on it says!

...never mind that funds that were specifically donated for "Rufus care" according to all of you, WONT go for helping Rufus after all, because a new (Rufus-appropriate) tank at the SAME LOCATION, avoiding much risk to Rufus, wouldn't need funding?? Big bad business man should have an extra 12K to spend on such a thing? So NONE of you feel a bit relieved a move wouldn't have to happen and want your money to go to Rufus WHERE HE IS? Do any/all who donated get a say? (Thanks whoever veered me from donating btw, now that I know this is the case)

Are you really interested in whats best for Rufus or not, because it SEEMED that was the whole point of this thread - which I was reminded of so clearly by ATP....
“The only thing important in this thread is finding a home for Rufus
& I for one will stay focused on that goal.”
What ATP failed to say was “…but only if we move Rufus regardless of the risk to his health…if new owner keeps him, we will write him off and keep all our “Rufus care” money out of his hands.

SO…..hypothetically….MAYBE the new owner will have a hard time finding the funds for a 2000 gallon tank that he is CURRENTLY TRYING TO FUND TO BUILD. (any idea how much that cost anyone?) You all will make sure NONE of your donated money “for Rufus” goes into this tank at Rufus's CURRENT location...and MAYBE in the end - new owner will give up again (as you predict) having not found the funds, and say Rufus has to move - then you people who donated (when you stop seething with anger) will have your money go to the tank at Damons...Rufus gets moved to Damons and then dies the next day as the whole ordeal was too stressful on him - or perhaps there is an accident. Then will all of you still just feel so good that you donated...but ONLY under the terms that Rufus is moved, which ends up being what killed him?

Anyway, for those still reading…I had the PLEASURE of spending the better part of Sunday AT Bahooka with Jorge, Fez, and one other tied to the place (cant remember his name). All 3 were kind, fantastic and generous people. It was great to spend time in the place, chatting with Fez about Bahooka memories... Sad to see it in its state – but it still looked and smelled like Bahooka in many respects. I met and got to speak with the owner A TINY BIT and got to hear him speak about the Rufus/fish issue (Fez doing most of the talking). The owner seemed a very nice and genuine guy - who is trying to do the right thing here. I only came away from the conversation feeling like a FEW of you should get off the boards and live a little more in the REAL world instead of doing so much judging from behind your computer screens. I don’t claim to know all about this whole situation – but I already see how many of you are wrong about several things. I’m not here to report what I learned. I feel info is only spiraling in the wrong direction with some of you and I don’t want to speak for anyone else anyway. My point is to just say some of you should relax and stop going into immediate mob mentality and trying to ruin reputations of people you don’t know.
Or, continue doing what you are doing. Wind each other up on this thread over rumors and bits of hearsay and donate money for a cause, claim you have Rufus as your priority - but then withdraw ANY support for him if it doesn't go how some of you want it to go - which, just happens to be the more hazardous route for Rufus.
You can all feel good behind your computer screens, but in the end, with all your spite, you did little to affect his future.
twisted up SLACTIVISM at its finest.
Your spite wont help build a new tank, at his current location, the SAFEST route for Rufus.

Fez is clearly a great guy (not that I assumed any different) who clearly has a passion about what was Bahooka (as I myself do) - and after finding the marketplace thread the other night and reading all the posts from many of you to/about him, questioning his actions, morals, intent, and everything else....well, I just kind of feel embarrassed for some of you.

I certainly don't understand what I did to get hostility from a few of you but, whatever. Apparently new people aren't very welcome here judging not by just my experience but what I saw some of you say to/about Fez in other threads. Not that I was looking for any new "community".

My intent here was to find out the situation with Rufus, the other fish, the tanks, and to thank all involved in actually trying to help make sure they were ok. I came out with perhaps a couple great new friends I met this weekend, and a much better understanding of the situation OFF THESE BOARDS than I was getting trying to question the angry mob here.
Thanks to those who WERE helpful. :)

I think you need to read this thread all the way through because
you get many points wrong.

I asked about the other fish back on page 20 I think it was.

"And how many other fish are there?
Dam, are they just SOL because they do not have the fame Rufus does?"

Only found out about the other fish AFTER a news piece done that day when Alan Zhu said he was keeping Rufus.
But you are right, why did others like Fez not say anything about other fish? I cannot say,
Sounds like you talk with him, ask him.

AND the reason people are mad at new owner Alan Zhu is, why this sudden change of heart?
If you remember HE wanted this fish out in one week!
You also talked to Mr. Zhu did you ask him? (it looks like the money is why)
Plus this tank is going to be in the middle of a total remodel, that means LOTS of dust.
Dust that will be going into said tank.
I don't think Rufus could live over a year if we put 1 million bucks into him and
made him bionic.
Having been in the restaurant biz most of my life I am a guy that would wish the new guy well.
It is his flaky ways that changed that for me.(sorry but from here he looks shifty)

And my only problem with you was when I thought you were ripping on America, and American business
owners.

Don't know why you would not ask these and many more questions of these people and
just come here and rip on some TC folks.

It's not our problem, It's not our fish, and it's not our restaurant.
I think most people were trying to help, I made my donation.
Not pissed at you or Fez.
Till you start ripin on America, but then nobody here should put up with that.

Did you Buy a tank?

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-09-01 09:26 ]

I said it on page 22, I'll say it again: "But, in the end, it sounds like Rufus gets to stay in his home, and hopefully he'll be pleasing visitors and enjoying life for years to come. Remember that Rufus's well-being was always the goal, and there was always a risk he'd die in a move—it certainly would have been very stressful to the poor guy."

And of course there was always a little bit of hypocrisy here. People who might not give a second thought to buying a puffer fish lamp are intent on saving this one fish. But as far as I'm concerned, a little bit of good is better than none at all, so I'm all for helping out Rufus.

I do love fish.
The ones in my back yard are so peaceful and fun to watch, Also love fish baked or fried.
Heck I would buy a coat made out of fish if there was one.

BUT, I would not eat Flipper or the fish in my back yard.
Nor would I make a light of them.

Also Fate brings up a good point though.
Are the fish left being properly cared for?
Is there now or has there in the past been poor treatment of these fish?
Does the Humane Society or some other type of animal welfare organization
Need to check on these fish?
How did the younger fish die first?

Remember Alan Zhus wife said….
“The owner's wife does NOT want to be spending any more money on this. She hates having to spend on the upkeep of the fish and hates that electricity is being used there. Most of the fish are now gone, and a lot of the tanks are being stored in the back banquet room. “
Quote Fez

We went from "No power for you" to "I love Rufus too" In 2747.00 seconds flat.

Did they” pull the plug” on the other fish?
How many fish are left?
Does an animal welfare organization need to be called to check on the fish?
If Rufus now dies was it old age? Or poor treatment of the fish?
I would not want my new customer base guessing if I killed Rufus or not.

I can’t even think of how mad I would be if I were Kari or Lynn as they put LOTS of time into
This.
All for not.

We are left with more questions than answers.

[i]On 2014-02-24 15:37, Fate wrote:

“on the surface” should be the key point of your post here.
How many of you have actually SPOKEN to the new owner, considering all the accusations. I have looked back in this thread a bit, and I see you people referring to him as a “scumbag, whack job, opportunist, hostage taker.” Really?

One would think by some of your attitudes that he was tossing the fish out back in the trash. Far from the truth. After buying the place, he perhaps wanted them out, and put out the word to find them homes, so he can get his business going. This wasnt just one or two tanks taking up some space. This is a WHOLE BUILDING full of tanks that need to be powered and not disturbed until they have new homes.

Your first paragraph proves my point, even if I suspect you did so inadvertently. If the owner had "put the word [out] to find them homes," as you insinuate, the owner should not have prevented Rufus from going to his new home at Bahookas.

When a "new home" was found for the oldest and most delicate fish, the owner prevented Rufus from going to his new home. Consequently, the owner rightly deserves ridicule and negative PR for rejecting the plan to move Rufus to his "new home."

[ Edited by: christiki295 2014-02-25 08:03 ]

Thanks Fate, it was cool meeting you and hanging out for a few hours at the Bahooka.

:-? ?

How many fish are left at the old Bahooka site now?

GROG just happy that it being turned into Chinese restaurant and not Japanese Sushi bar. Poor Rufus would be in the farthest corner of his tank thinking" Aw crap, I'm next!" every time somebody walk over to give him a carrot.

you're right Grog that is good news.
Looks like you've given this some thought
Do you think you will eat there?
If you do you'll have to get the fish and tell us how it is.
I think you'd be sorry if you didn't.
Welcome back Grog.

I would estimate there to be about 8-10 tanks with fish left. The current owner has a couple of huge tanks at his house with most of the others, he showed Fate and I some pics. He intends to put the new big tank up front, where people come in. He anticipates the new restaurant to open around August now. There are a handful of empty fish tanks in the banquet room, and people occasionally stop by to buy some. Fate and I took three each on Sunday, and I need to come back for two more.

Thank you for getting back to us on that Fez.
Should he want to get rid of those fish I would
think there may be people here that would be able to
help who knows.

Would think moving those fish would not be the big job Rufus is.

On 2014-02-27 07:29, tikiskip wrote:
Would think moving those fish would not be the big job Rufus is.

Jorge and I are trying to convince him to give the fish away, but he is selling them as well as the tanks. He did drop the price of the tanks now to $1 per gallon.

How is Rufus doing?

I was at Damon's on Friday and one of the bartenders assured me that it was only "a matter of time" before Rufus appears and proudly pointed out where his aquarium will be located.

Rufus is still doing well. Alan Zhu is having a 2000 gallon tank finished for him and other Pacu fish. I was there at the Bahooka yesterday taking down bamboo and the post office set up in the front. Grabbed a bunch of tables also.

from a week ago

I deleted the rest of my post and pictures I had posted to save you all the calories you would spend bitching about being on topic.

[ Edited by: Fate 2014-03-10 12:35 ]

Fez Moai,
Has the owner done the research on putting Rufus and the other fish in one tank? My concerns would be things like introducing a fish Rufus' age, let alone the fact he has NEVER been in any tank situation, other than total isolation in his entire life, into a multi fished community. If I were the owner, wanting to do this right, I would get some professional help BIG TIME!. I hope to hear this is the case?

For me, Questions arise like, "Can a fish rufus's age die from being introduced to disease or other factors he never built tolerance/immunity to in this new tank with other fish?

Will younger fish of his species pick on him...and this become a potential territorial issue?

Lastly, will Rufus be moved by a well trained pro? Moving this fish 10 feet can be as dangerous as moving it ten miles. As myself and others familiar with fish care of all sizes, changes in temperature, water chemistry and the trauma of "capturing" a fish this size are all SUPER critical. A new 2000 gallon tank sounds awesome...but the size and glitter won't mean a thing unless this process is carried out with experience and full understanding of the critical factors necessary to maximize his chances to survive.

[ Edited by: THOR's 2014-03-11 16:23 ]

On 2014-03-11 16:18, THOR's wrote:
If I were the owner, wanting to do this right, I would get some professional help BIG TIME!. I hope to hear this is the case?

[ Edited by: THOR's 2014-03-11 16:23 ]

Seems like all that money raised to help Rufus would be well used for this purpose.
You know, since it was raised to move him in the first place.

On 2014-03-13 16:54, Fate wrote:

On 2014-03-11 16:18, THOR's wrote:
If I were the owner, wanting to do this right, I would get some professional help BIG TIME!. I hope to hear this is the case?

[ Edited by: THOR's 2014-03-11 16:23 ]

Seems like all that money raised to help Rufus would be well used for this purpose.
You know, since it was raised to move him in the first place.

In this case the owner has the money to buy and setup a 2000 gallon tank, otherwise
he would not be doing it in the first place, As a contingency the raised funds may still be needed
if he (The owner) changes his plans again.

I for one don't believe in awarding greed, so not a penny should go to this guy for any reason
it is a little something I like to call ethics.

On 2014-03-11 16:18, THOR's wrote:
Fez Moai,
Has the owner done the research on putting Rufus and the other fish in one tank? ...

Good question. Many sources indicate that Pacus prefer to be more solitary as they get older and they attempt to nip the fins of any smaller fish.

I must be turning into a Pacu.

On 2014-03-13 16:54, Fate wrote:

On 2014-03-11 16:18, THOR's wrote:
If I were the owner, wanting to do this right, I would get some professional help BIG TIME!. I hope to hear this is the case?

[ Edited by: THOR's 2014-03-11 16:23 ]

Seems like all that money raised to help Rufus would be well used for this purpose.
You know, since it was raised to move him in the first place.

In no way was the fundraising goal the continued maintenance of Rufus at the same location. The fundraising explicitly stated that the goal was "to be relocated to a new home."

http://www.youcaring.com/pet-expenses/help-rufus-the-fish-find-a-forever-home-/136424

While I wish the best for Rufus, not a dime should be used to reward the new owner for blocking his move to Damon's.

On 2014-03-13 23:02, christiki295 wrote:

In no way was the fundraising goal the continued maintenance of Rufus at the same location. The fundraising explicitly stated that the goal was "to be relocated to a new home."

http://www.youcaring.com/pet-expenses/help-rufus-the-fish-find-a-forever-home-/136424

While I wish the best for Rufus, not a dime should be used to reward the new owner for blocking his move to Damon's.

Do people on this forum not understand basic english or do they just comment without reading the entire thread and what it is about? I thought the above comment was blatantly obvious.

On 2014-03-14 05:02, swizzle wrote:

On 2014-03-13 23:02, christiki295 wrote:

In no way was the fundraising goal the continued maintenance of Rufus at the same location. The fundraising explicitly stated that the goal was "to be relocated to a new home."

http://www.youcaring.com/pet-expenses/help-rufus-the-fish-find-a-forever-home-/136424

While I wish the best for Rufus, not a dime should be used to reward the new owner for blocking his move to Damon's.

Do people on this forum not understand basic english or do they just comment without reading the entire thread and what it is about? I thought the above comment was blatantly obvious.

Neither the sentiment nor the content are blatantly obvious. There is a divergence of opinion as to whether it is appropriate for the $$$ to be used to relocate Rufus to a new, bigger tank at the exact same place or, for the intended purpose of moving him to a different place - Damons. The content is not blatantly obvious as noticeably absent from the prior discussion was a reference to the wording of the purpose behind raising the $3000.00.

Be leery of making such assumptions, as it tends to make one an ass.

christiki295, i was quite drunk when i left that post last night and after reading it again now and also your reply, you have taken it out of context but i can completely understand why. I quoted your comment because I agree with what you said 100% and my response was actually directed at others who don't seem to understand or pay attention to what has been said in this thread, not you.

I think that's the best post on here thus far....

RUFUS....you are loved.

On 2014-03-14 17:32, swizzle wrote:
christiki295, i was quite drunk when i left that post last night and after reading it again now and also your reply, you have taken it out of context but i can completely understand why. I quoted your comment because I agree with what you said 100% and my response was actually directed at others who don't seem to understand or pay attention to what has been said in this thread, not you.

Clearly your confusing, drunk, vague post went over well.
If I was supposed to know it was directed at me - I wasn't entirely clear of that either, initially. If Im still wrong - well that just proves my point further doesn't it?

On 2014-03-13 17:15, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

In this case the owner has the money to buy and setup a 2000 gallon tank, otherwise
he would not be doing it in the first place, As a contingency the raised funds may still be needed
if he (The owner) changes his plans again.

I for one don't believe in awarding greed, so not a penny should go to this guy for any reason
it is a little something I like to call ethics.

How do you know the owner "HAS" the money? Have you spoken to him?

How is this "greed"?? So a guy buys an old closed restaurant (and everything in it) Said restaurant has a bunch of fish that have to be removed before any real renovation can happen (Do any of you understand how much money is being lost when a building is just sitting NOT bringing in money?)
Upon putting out the word that the fish need to be removed - a bunch of people and press get riled up over one particular fish (which, considering all the other animals there, I find a bit odd), to the point of raising money for Rufus to have a new home. Eventually there develops a plan as to where the fish may go (rumor has it a certain new restaurant home dragged their feet quite a bit, complicating the issue). Further discussion among all brings up that moving Rufus to a new location involves a lot of risk to him. (dont sit here and tell me that moving a fish 10 feet is the SAME as moving it 10 miles).

So, the owner notices Rufus has a lot of value to many, also learns that moving said fish would be risky, and decides that perhaps he can accommodate the fish in his original home, which, will lower the risk of the move issue, and possibly attract customers that care about said fish.
HOW is that greedy?
Seriously - however flaky you want to see him as for changing his mind - how is that greedy?

There is considerable cost involved in accommodating this fish. Why do you assume the owner just has that money (over 10K) just sitting around burning a hole in his pocket? If he saw everyone raising money to move Rufus - why wouldn't he reasonably assume that perhaps if he keeps Rufus there and builds a new bigger tank - that people would NOT want to support that too?
How is that greedy?
Why do you assume he just easily comes up with a last minute 13K for a new fish tank, never mind what is involved with holding Rufus somewhere while the building gets renovated. Have you seen that building? It needs work to say the least.
I still find it odd (and a bit misguided and hypocritical that you people are so adamant that the money only goes to the RISKIER move for Rufus, and zero will go to having a new home WHERE HE CURRENTLY RESIDES - some of you going so far as to hope all ventures at that property fail miserably because he decided to keep a fish he first wanted out (such a considerate "ethical" bunch you are). I find it completely reasonable that the new owner (if he did- Im not speaking for him) thought that you people would be willing to financially support a new home for Rufus WHEREVER it would be since you were all so quick to raise money for a new home.

how is that greedy?

In no way was the fundraising goal the continued maintenance of Rufus at the same location. The fundraising explicitly stated that the goal was "to be relocated to a new home."

http://www.youcaring.com/pet-expenses/help-rufus-the-fish-find-a-forever-home-/136424

While I wish the best for Rufus, not a dime should be used to reward the new owner for blocking his move to Damon's.

I find it laughable that your fundraiser link (and the update from 2/19) is quick to mention so much "compassion" and "care" about homeless Rufus, and quick to mention how greedy the new owner is for changing his mind about keeping Rufus - but says NOTHING about caring at ALL about the fate of ANY OF THE OTHER ANIMALS IN THERE - including the other Pacu - which aren't exactly young.

Anthropomorphize much? What makes Rufus so much MORE important - because he has a name to you people? Because you thought he recognized each of you when you came Bahooka?

In addition - the rabble-rousing fundraiser author implies that these differences of opinion are a "cultural" issue. hahaha really?
Chinese people just dont care about animals in the same way as Americans?

I have spoken with the owner a bit about Rufus and contrary to what the fundraiser says, the owner DOES speak "broken" English - as I certainly dont speak a word of Mandarin and somehow we managed a conversation on 2 different days.

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-09-01 09:25 ]

I was initially going to stay out of this because the back and forth seems kind of childish. It doesn't seem that either side has any interest in actually understanding the point of view of the other. At least half of communication should be listening, not plugging the ears and yelling "I'm not listening to _____", all while focusing on what to say next.

That being said, I don't know that too many people are criticizing or calling him greedy because he wants to move on with his construction plans. Anyone who's renovated structures, be it residential or commercial, can tell you it is an expensive, stressful process. I don't blame him for wanting the fish out of there. I would have handled it differently, but who am I to judge. Remember, Rufus means a lot to folks primarily because of their personal experiences at the Bahooka and memories tied to Rufus. This man has no such connection, so it is a bit unfair to expect him to have the same passion many of you might have.

However, his actions appear to be almost completely driven by greed. Anyone who decides that a living thing's value is only relevant when folks start raising money or when his presence (or lack thereof) will affect business, shouldn't be surprised when folks think of him as greedy. His 180 seems to be motivated far more by the thought that he may "possibly attract customers that care about said fish" than it is about Rufus' safety.

Folks probably assume he has the money, because most folks don't make major decisions based on the assumption that folks are going to give them money. Most folks make those decisions based on their own financial circumstances.

"If he saw everyone raising money to move Rufus - why wouldn't he reasonably assume that perhaps if he keeps Rufus there and builds a new bigger tank - that people would NOT want to support that too?"

In other words, Rufus' safety comes into play only after he sees an opportunity to get some money/customers out of it. I rescue animals. I do so because I care, not because there may be a way to get money/customers out of it. People who care, don't need financial encouragement to follow their heart and do the right thing. They are driven to that end by the very fiber of their being.

Folks don't want that money going to him because it was raised to help Rufus, not to enrich someone who's level of compassion seems to be tied to his bank account. I don't know this man nor do I wish him any ill will. However, I (like most people) can only make observations based on what I see. His actions don't appear to be motivated by compassion so much as financial gain.

That's not even addressing the question of what happens if Rufus' presence doesn't draw the interest or customers he hopes to gain? Will he still focus on Rufus' well being? ...or will it be "thanks for the money suckers and so long Rufus"?

So far as the other fish are concerned, some folks have shown concern for their well being. Those who haven't, likely care but are focused on Rufus as a result of his age. He has affected and been a part of the lives of far more people than any of the other fish. Does that make their lives less important? Of course not, but it does make it understandable that folks feel a far deeper connection with him than the other fish. It's not really rocket science....

I think LostIsland did a good job addressing the "Greed" issue which I concur with
Just adding that the owner has made it quite clear that his decisions have been monetarily motivated
with a complete disregard for Rufus's well being, this has been well established with the very first posts
on this thread.

I have much earlier voiced my concern for the other fish at the former Bahooka
as I heard many have died and only after unnecessary arguments from the person on scene
did we get confirmation of this.

Fate it is ridiculous that you suggest a "Businessman" would take on a pricy upgrade/addition
to his establishment without the means to pay for it.

Also you clearly don't understand what is involved in moving Rufus to a new tank even if it is 25 feet away
the proposed move is thrice as dangerous to Rufus because it involves transferring him to a new unestablished tank
with an additional fish population, this escalates the odds three times more of Rufus not surviving the shock
of relocation, when the original plan was just to move him to his already established tank in a new location
so a move 25 feet or 25 miles is the least of the dangers here.

This is just another decision the owner has made which shows a complete disregard for Rufus's well being.
let me boil this down to you "Fate" in a simpler equation you might be able to comprehend

"When money/business is more important then the well being of another life" This = Greed
and despite your "Gordon Gekko" mentality, Greed is not good.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-03-15 18:16 ]

"Lost Island"… My God….You really summed this up well again..and with both intellect AND heart. I can tell you have actually really read this thread through.

"Fate"…I am not going to even assert the effort to comment on your argument and expression. Your lengthly commentary showed NO understanding to what motivated this post.

What this has turned into…for better or worse is a therapy session at this point…which isn't all bad. I think the grand majority would agree we have, through a looooong spill of data and expression, not felt "good" about this entire thing from my first post to outcome. It's simple…those with compassion for something as simple as a "fish" that meant a lot to people…will support, validate and "get it" as to the spirit of all this effort. Those who find empowerment in pissing on the motivations of this…can breach their spouting like a whale with a herring stuck in it's blow hole…lots of noise with little real result or worthy purpose.!

You aren't dealing with idiots here who are arguing against the greed and insensitivity perceived without understanding what buying or running a business entails/demands. You are witnessing a rebellion supporting a PRINCIPLE that's nature is COMPLETELY motivated by heart over greed and insensitivity with a lot of inertia and "Tiki Spirit" symbolism behind it…and THAT, my friend, leaves NO arguments of business "sense" or monetary motivation more sensible…OR "Trumping" the power and passion of those motivated by pure humanity.

[ Edited by: THOR's 2014-03-15 21:20 ]

There are merits on both sides of the argument. Mr. Zhu is a businessman, plain and simple. He does not have the "tiki ohana", but that's not his fault or problem, really. On the other side of the coin, we have the passionate tiki fans that love Rufus and were looking to get him a new home. I wanted Rufus to go to Damons and was angry when Mr. Zhu changed his mind. But, what can you do? He is going to put Rufus into a much bigger tank and retain Jorge as his keeper. This is Fate's argument, that Rufus is still going to have a home, which is what everyone wanted. The fundraiser though, was for the purchase and transport of Rufus. I can see the hurt feelings that Mr. Zhu's decision caused and understand why everyone has a "screw you" attitude toward him. But this is all about Rufus, so I see why some people would say why not still help out? Mr. Zhu is in the driver's seat, but we're not even in the car. Our only hope is to wait this out, see what happens, and be ready should things change. We can argue whether it's a business thing or a personal thing but it won't change anything. It's both. I was there with Fate when we had those conversations with Alan, and he was very earnest in his desire to keep Rufus now and take care of him. Whether it's business or personal is now a moot point. I congratulated him and let him know that if he changed his mind to let us know. The bottom line is that we were successful in getting Rufus a new home, although it is going to be in his current home. I have put out word many times about getting fish and fish tanks from the Bahooka and not a single soul replied. Well, Fate was the only one. You can see how someone would think "what about the rest of the fish? Aren't they important?". Anyway, have a good one.