Your ‘Craft’ Rye Whiskey Is Probably From a Factory Distillery in Indiana

Your ‘Craft’ Rye Whiskey Is Probably From a Factory Distillery in Indiana: http://thebea.st/WJdoeV

so Jim Beam makes Old Overholt now- no wonder the price went up.

The distillate that is produced from the MGP 95% rye grain bill is a high quality product. If different labels market a quality expression aged from that bulk distillate I am good with that. Having said that, If Bulleit, Templeton, Willet, High West and whoever else might be sourcing their product from the Indiana plant all bottle an expression of generally the same age, I will likely opt for the cheapest one on the shelf knowing that they all have identical grain bills and probably were aged in the same warehouses, even though there are probably slight differences in blending and bottling across the brands that make them all a bit different.

If your a fan of craft Kentucky Bourbons, most are made at the Jim Beam distillery
(which is now owned by Japanese distiller Suntory, since January of this year)

Among it's brands are Makers Mark & Knob Creek as well as Scotch whiskies Teacher's and Laphroaig
As well as other spirits, such as Sauza tequila, Courvoisier cognac and Harvey's Bristol Cream.

Most high end spirits (around 94 percent on the market) come from a small handful of larger name brand distilleries
but those small "hand crafted" companies (which bottle the same whiskies) don't really want you to know this
yet these spirits are still of high quality and should not be mistaken for mass market brands made & sold by
the big companies, also.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-07-29 05:11 ]

Great information. Now, to me, the real big question is what do MGP employees, managers, execs, etc. drink when THEY reach for a "good" whiskey or rye?

In a side-by-side taste-test earlier this year at my home bar, Bulleit Rye lost handily to Jim Beam Rye on the basis of flavor when used to make carefully-measured Sazerac cocktails.

"Fun, fun, fun, 'til daddy took the whiskey distillery blindfold away."

But compare those two sipped neat and you will get an entirely different result. It's too much of an apples to oranges comparison with 40% abv Beam having just 51% rye in the mash bill compared to 45% abv Bulleit and it's 95% rye content.

Probably for most rye cocktails I think a mild standard proof rye like Overholt or Beam works great, but I much prefer the spicier high rye products for sipping.

It's not true that most bourbon is made at Jim Beam, although they're certainly one of the big boys on the block. As are Buffalo Trace/Sazerac, Four Roses (Kirin), Heaven Hill, Wild Turkey (Campari), and Brown-Forman.

Here's a great graphic that gives you a picture of what's going on in bourbon:

Link to larger image: http://www.gq.com/life/food/201311/bourbon-whiskey-family-tree

David J. Montgomery
Professor Cocktail

[ Edited by: djmont 2014-07-29 08:27 ]

Good idea, I will try that, why didn't I think of that? heh...

The whole clandestine sourcing of base whiskey from big distilleries by "the small guys" makes me call into question the truth of their mash bills. It's hard not to get angry at those guys for false advertising. At least the big guy is putting out a quality product. But still it's disappointing to hear. I'll be having a friendly conversation with a relatively new local craft distillery near me - The Ice Plant in St. Augustine - to learn more about what they are doing. They actually give tours, so that will be interesting.

If a distillery is selling vodka, gin, or clear rum, they're probably making it themselves. (Although this isn't always the case -- Tito's is a huge brand that claims to be "craft" but actually buys bulk vodka.) These new distilleries are able to do this because those spirits don't require aging.

If a distillery is selling whiskey, the big question is: how old is it? If a new distillery is selling 6-year-old bourbon, you know they bought it from somebody else. If it's new make or two-year-old...maybe they're actually doing it.

A lot of times you can tell by the label. Look to see which city it was distilled in.

That's funny - Tito's is sold with the collar claiming that they've won numerous "best of" awards. And it's also a bulk product? This is really amazing. It makes it that much more worthwhile to research and learn about the backgrounds and origination of various spirits.

On 2014-07-29 08:26, djmont wrote:
It's not true that most bourbon is made at Jim Beam, although they're certainly one of the big boys on the block. As are Buffalo Trace/Sazerac, Four Roses (Kirin), Heaven Hill, Wild Turkey (Campari), and Brown-Forman.

Here's a great graphic that gives you a picture of what's going on in bourbon:

[ Edited by: djmont 2014-07-29 08:27 ]

I refer specifically to "Kentucky Bourbons", not all Bourbons/blends etc. on the market
but almost all of them are from the few large distilleries
Which are supplying many of the so called "craft" distilleries, which may add a distinct process or flavor
to differentiate the brand before bottling.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-07-29 11:33 ]

That doesn't just go for that spirit, pretty much any alcohol that has a marketing budget and availability beyond the local space near the plant means there is usually a big producer behind them.

I heard something about this a while ago when I was first buying whiskeys & noticed that 'new brands' came up from no where. There was a massive 'super premium bourbon' & 'rye is hot right now' theme in everything I read, the 'bulk whiskey' buying & blending probably expanded from that to meet demand.

I think that non age statement whiskey produced this way has nothing wrong with it (eg Bulleit). If I was purchasing a high 'age statement' whiskey I would want it to be from a distillery with a 'real history'.

I kinda think that what I think of as the those distilleries with 'real history' (Jim Beam, Four Roses, Makers Mark, Heaven Hill, etc) probably do not buy 'bulk whiskey' but I'm sure they would when they do run short on supplies. Or maybe they would sell excess stock they had?

Remember Makers Mark took the decision to dilute their product to meet supply then reversed the decision? I would imagine they bulk bought stock to beef up their own produce (but not so much to have to declare it?).

I think it's interesting that ghost rye whiskeys have been produced (eg Jack Daniels, Jim Beams Jacobs Ghost) where distilleries have decided to keep a little integrity & make the products themselves even tho the fruits of their labour won't be seen for a while.

This practice is also common to rum:

• Navy style of rum is based on this idea - originally imported & bottled in London docks.
• DDL sell rums to make demerara based rums Lemon Hart, Pussers, etc
• Wray & Nephew reportedly buy up smaller Jamaican distillers new make rums which they add to their white overproof.
• Plantation / Berry Bros etc etc do finishing of various rums in different casks.
• Angostura have been bulk rum sellers for years.
• Brands like Five Islands appear from near no where.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on bits of this!

Can anyone think of other rums that are either made without distilleries or distilleries that sell rum stock for whatever usage?

Making Rum is never having to say you're sorry!

On 2014-07-30 08:37, Kill Devil wrote:
Making Rum is never having to say you're sorry!

Unless your name is Captain Morgan.

AdOrAdam, Makers Mark is made, owned & sold by Jim Beam distillery
as one of their craft whiskeys, just as is Knob Creek (one of my favorites)
make no mistake though, these are top shelf spirits.

@ Atomic Punk Tiki: I did know that (somewhere in the back of my mind) I just forgot :)

I wouldn't call Maker's Mark "craft." :)

in terms of the makers mark/jim beam argument.i dont think it matters anyway because they got bought out by a japanese company so they wouldnt be american anyway(not that i want to start an argument about it,ive always perfered Wild turkey anyway)

oh and makers mark has always seemed one of those lower quality alcohols that sells because of a gimmick(like the whole wax thing they got) or celebrity endorsement(like p diddy and ciroc)

[ Edited by: Jay4 2014-07-30 18:38 ]

[ Edited by: Jay4 2014-07-30 18:39 ]

Wild Turkey is owned by the Italians. Jim Beam and Four Roses are owned by the Japanese.

But really..... who cares?

Maker's Mark was always damn fine bourbon for those of us drankin' a drank at tailgates, and sneaking whiskey into football stadiums.

damn fine, and a cut above regular jimmy beam and wild turkey...

I can't drink that Wild Turkey stuff. I do like Makers Mark though. I can drink that with an ice cube any day. I usually buy Bulleit when I do buy whiskey.

On 2014-07-30 19:34, djmont wrote:
Wild Turkey is owned by the Italians. Jim Beam and Four Roses are owned by the Japanese.

But really..... who cares?

The KKK?

As a wheated bourbon, Maker's Mark won't be to everyone's taste. It's mellower and sweeter than a high-rye whiskey like Four Roses or Bulleit -- or even a traditional mash bill like Wild Turkey or Elijah Craig. But it's damn fine whiskey; one of the best examples of distilling prowess.

(And as far as wheated bourbon goes, Weller and Van Winkle are both wheated, so it's not like it's a style of bourbon that's out of fashion.)

David J. Montgomery
Professor Cocktail

[ Edited by: djmont 2014-07-30 19:45 ]

On 2014-07-30 18:37, Jay4 wrote:
in terms of the makers mark/jim beam argument.i dont think it matters anyway because they got bought out by a japanese company so they wouldnt be american anyway(not that i want to start an argument about it,ive always perfered Wild turkey anyway)

oh and makers mark has always seemed one of those lower quality alcohols that sells because of a gimmick(like the whole wax thing they got) or celebrity endorsement(like p diddy and ciroc)

Well I did post that a while back, (just who bought Jim Beam) but I am on board with the rest of you
Makers Mark is a fine "mid shelf" or mid range Bourbon, and much better then Jim Beam or other mass produced whiskies
like Wild Turkey.

It is not my favorite but mixes well in a fine cocktail, The funny thing is I prefer Knob Creek which is also made by Jim Beam distilleries.

Hi all

I wasn't sure where to post this but figured here was as good a place as any!

I had been enjoying some Rittenhouse 100 for a while, I'd been drinking it mainly neat or in Sazeracs but recently had tried out the Remember The Maine & Cocktail a la Louisiane (often drank by TCs own thePorpoise) - both damn tasty absinthe & whiskey drinks with vermouth & a sweetening liqour.

I had this labelled bottle:

I ran out so ordered a new bottle, I got this labelled one:

For those who've had both labelled bottles, is it me or is there quite a bit of variation between the 2 bottlings? Sufficiently so that I might go back to the website I ordered it from (Master Of Malt)

I'm thinking the colour is lighter in the second bottling (not a problem) but the flavour is also less intense (more of a question mark). The popularity of rye being high I figured that stocks that made the product would be different & so expected some variation but also I expected a closer consistency.

My old bottle I'd been chipping away at for about 2 years so if anything I'd expected the newer bottle to have more pep.

A quick google doesn't flag up any info but the States being the home of rye n all I wondered if y'all had heard a word on the street...?