LH 151 replacement

Well,

DrinkUpNY is officially out of LH151. This sucks. I have six bottles stashed away. I've read of a few possible 151s that seem to do a good job replacing LH151. Does anyone know of any of these that are available for purchase online? I live in terrible area of Louisiana with no decent liquor store for literally 120 miles.

Lots of discussion over here: http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=47455&forum=10&start=0&hilite=lemon hart 151

The "Search" tool at the top right of the page is a good thing. :wink:

[ Edited by: JenTiki 2014-12-10 11:45 ]

On 2014-12-10 11:43, JenTiki wrote:
The "Search" tool at the top right of the page is a good thing. :wink:

Thank you for the helpful reply. I've already "used the search button" numerous times and there's not a lot of data, and there's minimal information on a replacement that can be ordered online. Also, the thread you linked to is about the loss of LH151, not a replacement. I would suggest you google "How to effectively use search tools."

--

Goslings 151 seems to be the only thing in the same ballpark as LH151. I have only found one place to purchase it online, and they want you to send a copy of your drivers license to their gmail account to pre-screen. I told them no thank you. That seems awfully insecure and amateurish.

Actually there are other suggestions on that thread JenTiki linked too
like this one that was posted right after a post you made 29 days ago, on that very same thread

On 2014-11-13 01:17, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
Lemon Hart's previous U.S. importer, Ed Hamilton (of The Ministry of Rum fame), has just announced a new Demerara rum (both 86 and 151 proof), which has raised some hopes for a Lemon Hart replacement. Perhaps this is what he had in mind back in May when he said he was "working on obtaining another overproof rum that will work in many of the cocktails you love."

http://www.caribbean-spirits.com/labeldetails.php?id=68
http://www.caribbean-spirits.com/labeldetails.php?id=67

As for the status of Lemon Hart, I'm fairly certain the pipeline has stopped flowing, though it's possible you'll find bottles squirreled away in various stores and small distribution channels for quite a while. If you see it, by all means grab it.

For high-volume bars who must deal with their mainstream distributors, the end is near unfortunately. The Mai-Kai has officially removed it from all the drinks on their menu, though it appears they've stashed some away for special purposes. See my latest update here:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=47293&forum=10&start=45

Latitude 29 opened earlier today with 15 cases, but who knows how long that will last. I would expect they're good into early next year ...

http://latitude29nola.com

Over at Smuggler's Cove, the last I heard from Martin Cate is that he's about to start "tasting, blending and comparing" to come up with a replacement. He has "five decades worth of vintage Lemon Hart 151" at his disposal, so I'm hopeful he'll be able to offer the best advice on how to handle a future without Lemon Hart.

Of course, LH 151 could come back on the market next year and make this whole discussion moot, but I would not count on that happening. On their Facebook page, they seem more concerned with promoting their spiced rum:
https://www.facebook.com/LemonHartRum

And this one two posts down from the other I just quoted:

On 2014-11-14 00:08, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
Lots of discussion on the Ministry of Rum's Facebook group about the Hamilton 151 rum. I don't think you need to be logged into Facebook to read: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152475429388873&set=gm.10152431745482724&type=1&theater

Among the more interesting:

From Ed on Nov. 3:
"It will be another month before it's ready to ship in bottles, but shipping the rum to the bottler is the first of many small steps."

On Nov. 4, he added that there will be distribution in all of the colored states on this map:
http://caribbean-spirits.com

Then he added: "With the intent of being vague, I'll say this Demerara Overproof will have the signature Demerara notes that make Demerara rums unique. Smoky, dark fruit, tobacco, spice."

Looks like it will hit retail stores in early 2015.

So your reply to JenTiki should be "thank you for the help" without the snarkiness
and your welcomed.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-12-11 06:27 ]

Thanks for having my back, ATP! :drink:

On 2014-12-11 06:21, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
Actually there are other suggestions on that thread JenTiki linked too
like this one that was posted right after a post you made 29 days ago, on that very same thread

On 2014-11-13 01:17, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
Lemon Hart's previous U.S. importer, Ed Hamilton (of The Ministry of Rum fame), has just announced a new Demerara rum (both 86 and 151 proof), which has raised some hopes for a Lemon Hart replacement. Perhaps this is what he had in mind back in May when he said he was "working on obtaining another overproof rum that will work in many of the cocktails you love."

http://www.caribbean-spirits.com/labeldetails.php?id=68
http://www.caribbean-spirits.com/labeldetails.php?id=67

As for the status of Lemon Hart, I'm fairly certain the pipeline has stopped flowing, though it's possible you'll find bottles squirreled away in various stores and small distribution channels for quite a while. If you see it, by all means grab it.

For high-volume bars who must deal with their mainstream distributors, the end is near unfortunately. The Mai-Kai has officially removed it from all the drinks on their menu, though it appears they've stashed some away for special purposes. See my latest update here:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=47293&forum=10&start=45

Latitude 29 opened earlier today with 15 cases, but who knows how long that will last. I would expect they're good into early next year ...

http://latitude29nola.com

Over at Smuggler's Cove, the last I heard from Martin Cate is that he's about to start "tasting, blending and comparing" to come up with a replacement. He has "five decades worth of vintage Lemon Hart 151" at his disposal, so I'm hopeful he'll be able to offer the best advice on how to handle a future without Lemon Hart.

Of course, LH 151 could come back on the market next year and make this whole discussion moot, but I would not count on that happening. On their Facebook page, they seem more concerned with promoting their spiced rum:
https://www.facebook.com/LemonHartRum

And this one two posts down from the other I just quoted:

On 2014-11-14 00:08, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
Lots of discussion on the Ministry of Rum's Facebook group about the Hamilton 151 rum. I don't think you need to be logged into Facebook to read: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152475429388873&set=gm.10152431745482724&type=1&theater

Among the more interesting:

From Ed on Nov. 3:
"It will be another month before it's ready to ship in bottles, but shipping the rum to the bottler is the first of many small steps."

On Nov. 4, he added that there will be distribution in all of the colored states on this map:
http://caribbean-spirits.com

Then he added: "With the intent of being vague, I'll say this Demerara Overproof will have the signature Demerara notes that make Demerara rums unique. Smoky, dark fruit, tobacco, spice."

Looks like it will hit retail stores in early 2015.

So your reply to JenTiki should be "thank you for the help" without the snarkiness
and your welcomed.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-12-11 06:27 ]

Do you really think a post talking about rum that is not even available for purchase yet is helpful? I've already looked into that rum and you can't buy it anywhere, especially online. I'm not trying to be snarky, it's just that her post was completely unhelpful and rather condescending. Clearly I'm aware of that thread as I have posted in it, and there's very little helpful information in it. Particularly if the original post of this thread is actually read and comprehended. The original post is asking for replacements that are available for purchase online.

I'm done with arguing with people on the internet.

So, if we can get over defending a long time poster who condescendingly told someone with less posts to "use the search function" when she clearly didn't even read the original post, it would be interesting to hear of any suitable existing LH151 replacements that can be purchased online. El Dorado has a 151 as well but through my searches here no one thinkgs its a demerara and weren't particularly pleased with it.

[ Edited by: rockydog101 2014-12-11 07:37 ]

Your original post did not rule out Goslings, which actually is suggested as a possible replacement in the thread I linked to, and is available online. I just didn't see where starting a new thread made any sense when possible replacements for LH151 were already being discussed in an existing thread. Pardon me for not taking the time to read every post on all 16 pages of the other thread to see if you had already posted there. Since you only had 20 posts, I thought you may not already know about the search tool and was truly trying to be helpful. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

Man, people sure are sensitive on this site!

On 2014-12-11 06:09, rockydog101 wrote:
Goslings 151 seems to be the only thing in the same ballpark as LH151. I have only found one place to purchase it online, and they want you to send a copy of your drivers license to their gmail account to pre-screen. I told them no thank you. That seems awfully insecure and amateurish.

Where do you live? I know several sites that carry it.

While I do have a small stash of LH151, my love of floating a strong Demarera on top of a Mai Tai means I'll end up going through it way too quickly (at the rate I make Mai Tais), so I've lately been floating some OVD on top which is pretty good too. Not sure how that would work in a cocktail where LH is featured, but you could definitely try OVD as a float.

Hmmm... sniping about using the search button aside (which we all don't do occasionally don't do)...

In part I agree with Rockydog101 - there are a lot of threads mourn that LH151 is stopping production but few tackle solely the subject of a replacement. But I also count 4 LH151 related threads in the first 2 pages of the 'Tiki Drinks & Food' so maybe another is overkill?

Personally I have been subbing LH151 for Plantation Overproof & Goslings 151 - they don't quite cut the same flavour.

I think that in some of the fruitier cocktails Goslings 151 works slightly better (I'm thinking of the Speviak Zombie & Puka Punch) but LH151 syncs up better with drinks containing grapefruit &/or cinnamon.

On 2014-12-11 12:37, Scaramouch wrote:
...so I've lately been floating some OVD on top which is pretty good too.

OVD?

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-12637.aspx

Old Vatted Demerara, I wasn't aware of it, either. Wish they sold it here!

gabbahey

On 2014-12-11 07:21, JenTiki wrote:
Thanks for having my back, ATP! :drink:

JenTiki :) I could tell you were being helpful, everyone here knows it is me, who brings the snark on TC.

rockydog101, if you read through that same post you will find out we haven't really found a suitable replacement for LH 151 as of yet
but the good folks right in those quoted links are working on it & have some substitutes in the pipeline, but your just going to have
to wait for them, just like the rest of us.

Don't forget you're new here and have asked for alot of help from these same folks, hell I think it was me
who brought up LH 151 as a float in Mai Tais on your thread, I could tell JenTiki was only trying to be helpful
so perhaps try not to read something into it, that was not intended, from someone who took the time to help you out.

I would start by saying thank you to all the folks who did take time out to answer all your questions.
for many of us, we had to do our own research over the years and find out these things for ourselves
you get the benefit of that work without the toil.

It really is amazing how many people do not use the search function. And by that, i mean typing in a core word and then reading the majority of the threads that that core word will bring up. Type in the word 'Lemon Hart' and it brings up 26 results. Yes, that is a lot (not alot, or allot. The first doesn't exist, the second has a completely different meaning), but if you take the time to read through them you might learn something. You might find that answer to the question you are GOING to ask and, you might also learn something new.

Maybe that is the fault of the moderators not combining/condensing the same topic into one thread, but, by taking the time to read everything you are most likely going to find your answer and also not start another pointless thread that will just disappear down the board with little or no response.

I'm sorry rockydog101, but when i first read your post i cringed, because i knew that what you were asking had/has been covered/talked about somewhere here already (I know i have been here longer, but i PERSONALLY do not start a new thread just because i want an answer right away). I DO use the search function to see if what i want to know has been covered. IF it hasn't, then i would have learnt a hell of a lot of stuff i would have never known otherwise just by doing that. If i don't find what i what i want THEN i'll start a new thread. But that's just me.

JenTiki was just trying to help. And i must say that ATP has been very diplomatic and not as snarky as he has been/could be, so maybe what he said you could take on board.

I can't deny the snark.

I have about a case of LH151 left, but when it runs out, should there be no replacement available, I will use Eldorado 12 YO. It won't have the proof, but it will have the flavor.

I do this now when I make a Zombie Punch Lite. I do not feel like getting wasted or maybe want to have 2 or 3 of them. Subbing 80 proof for 151 doesn't hurt the flavor of the drink but does make it less potent. You might not think 1 oz of 80 vs 1 oz of 151 would change the effect much, but it really does. Especially after the second round.

Would El Dorado 8 year have the same taste? I have tried El Dorado 5 year and its not as strong, taste wise as the Lemon Hart 151.

"People are like islands. You have to get close to them to know what they are about."
~ Adam Troy

[ Edited by: MaukaHale 2014-12-12 07:40 ]

My opinion tends to be that more proof = more flavor. It's just not the same taste profile (to me) when you sub other Demeraras/rums for the LH151 in Zombies, Jet Pilots, etc. This is why I usually prefer my bourbons and apple brandy (Laird's Straight) bottled in bond. Proof is important to consider in Tiki drinks, when you're layering a number of rums and/or other liqueurs in a recipe (i.e., a high proof rum like Smith & Cross "overpowering" a recipe calling for a Jamaican rum, etc)

I met and talked to "the beach bum" tonight, and he assured me the 151 Demerara that Hamilton is going to offer is just as wonderful as LH151. Hopefully available in January?

I read somewhere (perhaps here, though I can't find the post), that a suitable workaround in recipes calling for LH151 in addition to other rums was to replace the lightest rum in the drink with a demerara rum and use another overproof rum, like Gosling's or Potters, in place of the LH.

I am proud to be able to tell you that I just finished bottling Hamilton Demerara Overproof Rum and a lower proof (86) version of the same base rum. While this I didn't try to match the flavor profile exactly to that of the latest batch of Lemon Hart 151, I consider this to be a better substitute for Lemon Hart 151, a view that has been shared by a few people who run tiki bars.

This is a blend of aged, up to five years, pot and column still rum from DDL, the distillers of Lemon Hart and all of the El Dorado rums we know and love. I tried scores of samples from other distillers and couldn't find the smoky tobacco flavors found in Demerara rums.

The schedule is a bit hazy with the Christian holiday clogging up almost every delivery channel in the country, but it will be at my NJ warehouse by Christmas. From there it has to be shipped to your state distributor and then to you. With a bit of luck the first bottles should hit Hi Time Cellars the second full week of January. I know it seems like a long time for a bottle of rum to move across the country, but there are a lot of hurdles to be jumped. The good news is that label registrations have been underway for some time.

As soon as I get my hands on a bottle I'll post some video reviews from a So Cal bar at the link above, until then stay tuned.

I have orders from California, Georgia, Florida and DC. If you live in another state go to the Caribbean Spirits homepage and click the map to find the distributor in your state, then call or email them and ask for Hamilton Demerara Overproof Rum.

More soon.

[ Edited by: Rum guy 2014-12-20 10:59 ]

I look forward to trying it.

It seems like cruel and unusual punishment that all those bottle will be shipped here to NJ where I live, but there are currently no plans to actually sell it here. So near and yet so very far!

On 2014-12-19 22:38, Rum guy wrote:
I am proud to be able to tell you that I just finished bottling Hamilton Demerara Overproof Rum and a lower proof (86) version of the same base rum. While this I didn't try to match the flavor profile exactly to that of the latest batch of Lemon Hart 151, I consider this to be a the best substitute for Lemon Hart 151, a view that has been shared by a few people who run tiki bars.

This is a blend of aged, up to five years, pot and column still rum from DDL, the distillers of Lemon Hart and all of the El Dorado rums we know and love. I tried scores of samples from other distillers and couldn't find the smoky tobacco flavors found in Demerara rums.

The schedule is a bit hazy with the Christian holiday clogging up almost every delivery channel in the country, but it will be at my NJ warehouse by Christmas. From there it has to be shipped to your state distributor and then to you. With a bit of luck the first bottles should hit Hi Time Cellars the second full week of January. I know it seems like a long time for a bottle of rum to move across the country, but there are a lot of hurdles to be jumped. The good news is that label registrations have been underway for some time.

As soon as I get my hands on a bottle I'll post some video reviews from a So Cal bar at the link above, until then stay tuned.

I have orders from California, Georgia, Florida and DC. If you live in another state go to the Caribbean Spirits homepage and click the map to find the distributor in your state, then call or email them and ask for Hamilton Demerara Overproof Rum.

More soon.

Thank you for the information!

Do you have any plans, or any purchasers, who will sell your wonderful rum online? Ie, DrinkUpNY, or any other online retailer? I am currently emailing distributers in my state (Louisiana) and Texas. I would buy a case right now!

[ Edited by: rockydog101 2014-12-20 08:38 ]

Please understand in order for me to comply with all Federal laws, as we all do in the drinking world, I have no control over where this will be sold.

First NJ, I have applied for the label registration and this will be coming to NJ before it comes to NY, where the labels and price postings take weeks if not months. I'm guessing March 1, as the earliest you'll see this in the empire state.

Texas - the product is registered but I don't expect to have an ETA until mid to late January.

Louisiana - label registration has been submitted and it should be there sometime in January. Jeff Berry is pulling as hard as he can and I'm pushing as hard as I can to make it happen for Louisiana. I hope you can appreciate trying to push 500 feet of 1/2" chain up a hill. It is only slightly easier when someone is pulling on the other end.

California has no label registration and I have an order from the distributor but they aren't picking up from the NJ warehouse until, probably, the new year. Which means your friends at Hi Times, and you should be friends with these guys, will most likely be the first online retailer to have these new Hamilton Demerara Rums. Unless it goes through an online retailer in NJ first.

Colorado is on the short list of first states to get this as I have an order going to Denver as soon as it's cleared into the NJ warehouse.

And yes, it's coming to Florida, Illinois and Arizona where the label registrations are complete and the distributors are anxiously awaiting the arrival in NJ.

Washington and Oregon are on the list of states that are in the works.

Hopefully I'll have some more good news next week.

[ Edited by: Rum guy 2014-12-20 09:40 ]

[ Edited by: Rum guy 2014-12-20 09:42 ]

[ Edited by: Rum guy 2014-12-20 09:45 ]

Great news indeed! Ed, who is the Florida distributor?

Much appreciated for all the information, sir.

On 2014-12-20 10:50, Sunny&Rummy wrote:
Great news indeed! Ed, who is the Florida distributor?

Vinecraft
in Miami(786) 401-6489

Ask your favorite store to call them.

[ Edited by: Rum guy 2014-12-20 17:35 ]

Really looking forward to trying this, thanks for the info Rumguy.

My last bottle of LH151 cracked open last night for the holidays.

... Which means your friends at Hi Times, and you should be friends with these guys, will most likely be the first online retailer to have these new Hamilton Demerara Rums. Unless it goes through an online retailer in NJ first...

Any chance that Beverage Warehouse in LA will be getting any? They've been my source for the pot-stilled black, gold, and 5 year rums, which I haven't seen at any of my other usual haunts.

Beverage Warehouse has been a supporter of my portfolio for a long time and I expect they will have my Demerara Rums on their shelf sooner than later.

Good retailers always welcome input from customers, especially when it means helping them identify new products that may be under their radar.

Ed, I've alerted The Mai-Kai to the availability of Hamilton Demerara Overproof and Demerara 86. I know they're interested in trying it in all the cocktails that previously used Lemon Hart. Fingers crossed that the Florida distributor can work with them.

I heard early on it would be coming to TN. Is that correct?

Vinecraft in Florida will have these Demerara rums by the end of the month.
As for Tennessee, it's going to take at least a couple of months, but I'm working on it. There is more red tape in some states than others.

These are the Demeraras we are waiting for. Last night I had a chance to sample these neat. I didn't get to do a head to head comparison with the LH151 but after I got home I tasted my bottle of Lemon Hart 151, if memory serves me well, the Hamilton 151 has a richer more robust nose. Both quite smokey on the palate but the Lemon Hart seemed to have a little less flavor and wasn't as smooth going down. I'll take the Hamilton over the Lemon Hart.

Looking forward to more!

I truly hope an online retailer like DrinkUpNY or K&L wine pickup this product. Damn. I would order a case without even tasting it.

California will be one of the first states to receive these rums. Ask your K&L store for them and it will help pull them through the system.
DrinkUPNY will take at least until March.

I'm also processing orders for HI, GA and DC this week.

[ Edited by: Rum guy 2015-01-05 15:30 ]

I asked Beverage Warehouse if they were carrying it. Response was: "Sorry we do not. The over-proof is not listed in our distributors book."

I'll contact the distributor and correct that asap. Thanks for asking Beverage Warehouse. They can't order it until it's in the book, or they get an update.

On 2015-01-05 17:43, Rum guy wrote:
I'll contact the distributor and correct that asap. Thanks for asking Beverage Warehouse. They can't order it until it's in the book, or they get an update.

Are any of Hamilton's rums currently available to purchase online via any website? I looked at my usual places and did not see any of them :((

[ Edited by: rockydog101 2015-01-06 07:16 ]

I contacted VineCraft. Currently only requests are coming from the Palm Beach area. Vinecraft is going to contact their rep in the Clearwater/Tampa area to assist. They will find a store close enough that will accept the special order or maybe carry it all the time. They are going to call me back within a few days. On a side note.... For Christmas my girlfriend bought me a case of what was left of the LH151. That brings the count to 24 bottles. But based upon what people are saying about the Hamilton, it might not critical to hoard.

[ Edited by: Tonga Tiki 2015-01-06 15:02 ]

Tonga, cantcha pm me where the LH can be found around here?

mahalo!

As soon as I hear of an online store that is stocking my Demerara Overproof and Demerara 86 proof rums I'll post it here.

Aloha, Ed! Any word on when NC will be able to special order the 151? The ABC contact for Tiki Hideaway hasn't been able to get the LH151 yet. I'm willing to drive to SC for my home stash if they'll have it sooner, but the bar has to order through the county ABC stores.
Cheers,
Jen

Has anyone spotted the new Hamilton Demeraras in Southern California yet? I haven't seen them at any of the usual sources (Hi Times, Landmark, even the "big boxes" Total Wine and BevMo).

Not yet Finky. I think Ed just posted on the "what are you drinking right now" thread that they just got to Cali. I just pushed my local store (Keg & Bottle) to get some. You might want to do the same. Hopefully in a week or 2 we will be drinking it!

On 2015-01-15 19:35, lunavideogames wrote:
...Ed just posted on the "what are you drinking right now" thread that they just got to Cali. ...

Yes indeed. Here's what he posted:

On 2015-01-14 18:27, Rum guy wrote:
the first shipment to CA will land in SF tomorrow or Friday, weather permitting. The truck is coming from NJ so there's a lot of country to transverse. In CA call Bock for the store nearest you. 415.834.9675.

A shipment arrived yesterday in DC.
Other states that have been shipped are PA, GA, IL and WI.

Orders are being processed for FL, TX, WA and LA.

NY and NJ will be available Feb 1.

Still jumping through the hoops in LA and AZ.

I look forward to seeing your comments. And although the main interest appears to be 151, the 86 proof is pretty good too.

Glad to hear that Binny's Liquors here in the Chicago area will carry Ed's 151!