Unpopular Tiki Opinions

Express any opinion that's related to Tiki/Polynesia that would most likely get you eaten alive by the majority of people on the Internet.

e.g. Whether it’s authentic Tiki/Polynesian or cartoon, it’s all good.

[ Edited by: Iakona 2018-04-26 10:59 ]

Are you TRYING to cause trouble Iakona! :lol:

OK, I'll play along - I think the Mai Tai has way too much alcohol and not enough mixer :wink:

On 2018-04-25 16:21, MadDogMike wrote:
:lol:
I think the Mai Tai has way too much alcohol and not enough mixer :wink:

Now THAT is a Unpopular Tiki Opinion!
AND crazy talk.

Mine is I don't like ALL tiki bars.
Just the ones that have good food and drinks and don't charge an arm and a leg for the food and drink.

Plus the décor for sure.

If they really suck I try to not say anything about them on line, unless you ask in a PM.

I don't like the rejection of all things Caribbean as "not tiki." If that's the case, then you gotta give up your rum and stick with kava! :wink:

I think the geeki tiki mugs (Star Wars, superheroes, etc.) are kinda cool.

[ Edited by: tikitube 2018-04-25 21:02 ]

I think rum is overrated and would prefer a Singapore Sling or similar for my tiki drink.

On 2018-04-25 20:15, Prikli Pear wrote:
I don't like the rejection of all things Caribbean as "not tiki." If that's the case,

For me Caribbean décor and even not truly exotica music are fine for yer tiki bars, it's the whole Homer Simpson dolls and Sorry Star wars, mixing sports with your tiki bar
that for me just does not work.

NOW you can do it, it's your house.
AND you can post it here, but other people also have the right to say wow that just does not work.

It's funny how some things get a pass and are seen as tiki Like hot rods, Burlesque, Burlesque? like where the heck did that come from?
Fezzes, And so many other things.

I think it comes down to who in the tiki world likes these other things as to whether or not we all suck up and agree to include these other questionable things as tiki.

Jimmy Buffet is as much tiki or not tiki as a fez or Burlesque, but Jimmy Buffet is mostly HATED here.

Just like flare bartending is duchy here but the words "craft cocktails" or even "mixologist" is not.

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2018-04-26 06:38 ]

I feel like this is a set up...like when people on the most wanted lists are informed they've won the lottery, simply show up at the Police Station to pick up their winnings.

But Skip nailed mine...Jimmy Buffett brought me to tiki...so most times, I'd prefer to listen to "beach" music when in my tiki bar...mostly reggae, island-inspired tunes, even COUNTRY???..and I'm not opposed to the occasional Mr. Buffett himself (though I prefer the less played stuff in his repertoire over the core 10-20 songs you would hear at his concerts).

On 2018-04-26 06:34, tikiskip wrote:
Just like flare bartending is duchy here but the words "craft cocktails" or even "mixologist" is not.

I need a word to differentiate between "lame" and "great" cocktails, so for lack of a better word, "craft cocktails" works. I also need to differentiate between a "lame" bartender versus a "great" bartender, so for lack of a better word "mixologist" works even though I know it carries pop-culture baggage for many here. There are great tiki and great non-tiki bartenders, but what words describe these skills? I think "mixologist" may be what we're stuck with.

I wish there were better words to differentiate between the typical lame sports bar bartenders versus the greats like Donn, Vic, Mariano, etc. Otherwise these seem to be the best understood words which are currently in general circulation.

Flair bartending is pop-culture and not associated in any way with tiki in my mind. I use weighted shaker tins but have never (yet) tried my hand at using them for anything other than making killer cocktails. Maybe I'll try someday...

On 2018-04-25 16:21, MadDogMike wrote:
OK, I'll play along - I think the Mai Tai has way too much alcohol and not enough mixer :wink:

That's not far off of mine... I think too much alcohol is a problem in a lot of cocktails I've tried :D

Otherwise... I think some Geeki Tiki mugs are cool but others are lame. I have a lot of Indonesian masks and things, and I don't feel bad about it. I also think it's okay if your Tiki appreciation includes the Jungle Cruise. Disneyland's Adventureland overall has a more Tiki feel to it than Walt Disney World's or Disneyland Paris'. I don't go to Tiki conventions because drunken parties with thousands of people aren't my thing, but it's cool if it's your thing. Have fun.

I feel like I've walked into a local group of TA (that's TA as in Tiki Anonymous....not T&A). We just standing around, talking about the elephants in the room and sharing our feelings. Will there be S'Mores and a drum circle?

For me....slapping bamboo on something does not make it Tiki. All that does is make it tropical.

The problem with the words the "craft cocktails" or even "mixologist" every Tom Dick and Harry is a "mixologist" and every new yuppie or is it hipster bar now has "craft cocktails"
these words are used to jack more money from you.

And really many of the people that paste the term "mixologist" onto themselves are not even good bartenders so this taints the term.

Some of the tiki "mixologist" that I knew were really ripping on the Flare bartenders thing, but these people had NEVER word a bar for a full 8 hour shift for even a few days.

And I'll tell ya they could not hack it if they tried.

I would think of a "mixologist" as persons like the bartenders at Tiki Ti.
They make great drinks!
AND they do it every night for many years, remembering the drinks by heart all the while taking cash and dealing with drunks.

THAT is a great! bartender.
That makes great drinks.

We call our tiki art folks lowbrow artists and that is good enough for them, why do we need some Hibrow name for bartenders?

The word "mixologist" is over used just like the term chef.
Everybody needs some glorified title these days.

From the net....

The Mixologist:
Designs cocktails that are seasonal and / or aligned with the style of the establishment
Prepares any house-made syrups, tinctures, bitters, or other ingredients that a bartender will need for service
Selects ingredients behind the bar that are high quality and again, aligned with the bar or restaurant.
Does his or her work before the guests arrive

I'm glad they are changing the auction scene in Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland!

On 2018-04-26 10:38, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:
I'm glad they are changing the auction scene in Pirates of the Caribbean at Disneyland!

WTH does that have to do with Tiki!?

On 2018-04-26 06:34, tikiskip wrote:

It's funny how some things get a pass and are seen as tiki Like hot rods, Burlesque, Burlesque? like where the heck did that come from?
Fezzes, And so many other things...Jimmy Buffet is as much tiki or not tiki as a fez or Burlesque, but Jimmy Buffet is mostly HATED here.
[ Edited by: tikiskip 2018-04-26 06:38 ]

I think it's because tiki was revived by post-punk Southern Californians, and hot rods, burlesque, fezzes (as well as Rat Pack/classic Vegas, rockabilly, surfing, Googie, etc) are all part of the 'lowbrow' culture that was inspired by sexy, somewhat deviant mid-century coolness. Jimmy Buffet isn't mid-century, isn't from California (or anywhere near the Pacific), most certainly isn't cool, and there's no strong exotic feel to his mild country-pop music. John Denver in a Hawaiian shirt is still John Denver.

I've added some Mexican Day of the Dead stuff to my living room bar area. A culture clash, I guess, but in purely visual terms, it fits in.

[ Edited by: MrFab 2018-04-26 14:15 ]

Plus, the whole Jimmy Buffet thing is a complete parody of itself. The Jimmy Buffet of the 1970's was making fun of the exact things that make up the whole Margaritaville phenomenon now: cruise ships, franchise restaurants, corporate branding, a Broadway show, a retirement village for God's sake!

I look at the Buffet thing like college. You're young, you don't really know any better. But as you get older, hopefully, your tastes become a bit more refined and you move on from the food, drink, clothes, music, etc. that you thought was just awesome in college. I've been able to use this line of reasoning to "rehab" one than one Parrothead in our area!

On 2018-04-26 07:13, LoungeShark wrote:
I feel like this is a set up...like when people on the most wanted lists are informed they've won the lottery, simply show up at the Police Station to pick up their winnings.

:lol:

tiki culture is always evolving....we'd all be wearing nerd glasses, aloha shirts, bermuda shorts, black sock garters and wingtips everyday given the opportunity

jimmy buffett has ZERO to to with the real tiki culture you guys are into

tiki purists rule this site..they bend the rules for peripheral allied subcultures which is fine...

flaming people on the internet would bring us to the cultural appropriation aspect of tiki...the white explorer (conquerer) and the savage islander theme

but hey i just like mai tai's

make tiki great again

I get what you are saying Mr. Fab but surfers and hot rod dudes did not get along back in the day in California.

In fact wasn't a hodag a hot rod dude?
So it has kinda shifted since then.

Hodad
50's term for a greaser, someone who hung out at the beach, but definitely not a surfer. Hodads were into cars, music and were a type of counterculture style. These were NOT posers, as some of the other definitions had stated...Surfer's and Hodad's would be completely separate groups, that often clashed with each other.
in the beach communities in the 50's one was either a hodad or a surfer. Hodad's wore a very specific style of clothing.....black shoes, jeans, and a t-shirt (preferably white). They were NOT posers, and wouldn't be caught dead hangin' with a surfer. aka...low riders

On 2018-04-26 14:50, Tiki Roa wrote:
tiki purists rule this site..they bend the rules for peripheral allied subcultures which is fine...

Gawd, let's hope they don't "rule." I think this site is centered around pure tiki, but there are far too many posts from other points of view to say this site is "ruled" by purists. And I think the lack of flame wars in recent times is proof of that. The tolerance for painted tiki carvings is another example, with the exception of the truly garish clown tikis.

Good point about "peripheral allied subcultures." That's a very good way to put it. I'm not going to dislike anyone for liking hot rods, or fezzes, or burlesque. While they may not have a direct connection to the vintage tiki which is at the heart of today's tiki, for various reasons they are being mashed together with tiki. It is what it is.

I own a leopard-print fez which I bought as soon as the 2nd or 3rd episode of Tiki Bar TV came out. I wear it rarely, but display it prominently in my bar atop my Wayne Coombs carved tiki. While not connected to original tiki, the fez is to me a fun visual connection to a lot of the leopard-print stuff from mid-century America but not necessarily tiki.

“I'm not going to dislike anyone for liking hot rods, or fezzes, or burlesque.”
I like hot rods, and have like four fezzes too in my room, burlesque in Ohio at times means not so hot chick with few clothes on.
Hot chicks are tiki.

And like they do their thing with 5 year olds in the front row.

I’m no parrot head, my point there was it’s odd how there are things here that have a disconnect from tiki but are still seen as tiki.

“tiki purists rule this site”
We see a lot of non tiki purists stuff on this site these days I would say tiki purists are not on TC as much as before.

I don’t think myself a tiki purists but this put it best for me.
“I've added some Mexican Day of the Dead stuff to my living room bar area. A culture clash, I guess, but in purely visual terms, it fits in.”

Some of the stuff from Kahiki came from Mexico and alone looks kinda Mexican
but in purely visual terms, it fits in.
Most of Star Wars just does not in visual terms fit in.

So this thread has, loosely, created a problem for us to discuss.

People will always stray from the original and innovate, good and bad. That's not news.

Guys, can we please not start a flame war? This is supposed to be a place where we can freely post our own opinions on Tiki. Here nobody is either right or wrong.

To get us back on track I will post another unpopular opinion:

Tiki was not popular in the 50s/60s solely because of drinks; they were merely a small component of the movement.

On 2018-04-27 08:51, Iakona wrote:
Guys, can we please not start a flame war? This is supposed to be a place where we can freely post our own opinions on Tiki. Here nobody is either right or wrong.

Do you really think what's been posted is heading towards a flame war? Seems pretty innocent to me.

Ya bunch of flamers....oh wait, can that be said?

Just to clarify what I meant when I said that Buffett brought me to tiki...ironically I started listening to Jimmy Buffett in college. We'd pack up several cars worth of ne'er-do-wells and head down to Phincy, er, Cincinnati to tailgate, meet chicas and enjoy the concert. And in those days, he was doing five days worth of shows (and they'd sell out in minutes). That became my gateway drug to all things Polynesian and beach-like. From there, I began to gravitate towards Tiki culture, as I had also grown up eating at the Kahiki. As far as the music, even he'll be the first to say that he's not all that talented a singer or guitar player, but he "surrounds himself with people who are." And yeah, the industrial machine that is Margaritaville is definitely a joke now. There's a reason why Buffett's still one of the more "successful" entertainers, though he's only had a couple hit songs. And most of that stuff is junk. The restaurants are too pricey for the food, the materials used for the clothing and such is cheap, and the fact that there's now a retirement village, with more on the way? That's beyond laughable.

But to this day, and probably because I'm a musician myself, there's still something about a guy sitting back playing guitar and singing boat songs, that I really like on a hot summer day, while drinking a beer. That's also why I prefer groups like the Crazed Mugs and the Hula Girls, over pure exotica. Not saying that exotica isn't music, but it gets repetitive for me. More like background or elevator noise. So I like it when "setting the stage" for a Tiki bar, but it's not something I would go over the top to indulge in.

My favorite tiki drink is a Pina Colada. But at least I drink it out of a tiki mug and I make mine with pineapple ice cream.

My opinion: I don't care much for Tiki.

:)

I like Buffett, but I'm of the First Church of Buffett, Orthodox persuasion. He hit his stride as a songwriter during the Key West days, and produced some great narrative lyrics. Tiki was in its death throes, so to speak, and his mantra of the time was to cast off society's expectations and restraints and live life for yourself. Then came Margaritaville, which in and of itself is a tight piece of musical storytelling, but folks who became Parrotheads heard it as a call to get liquored up on margaritas rather than the cautionary, elegiac tale it is (I mean, really, it's not a party song). Everyone wanted more Margaritavilles, and so I think Buffett started writing to appease those fans, and he lost his way in the 80s. He still wrote good songs on occasion, but much of his music became second-rate copies of what he was doing in the 70s. Now the commercialism has taken over and he's just cashing in.

By all accounts he seems to be a decent fellow and someone worth hanging out with, but damn. I mean, retirement communities? I can't even begin to grok that.

On 2018-04-27 15:32, tiki-riviera wrote:

My favorite tiki drink is a Pina Colada. But at least I drink it out of a tiki mug and I make mine with pineapple ice cream.

:o Can we have a recipe for that?

On 2018-04-27 20:52, Prikli Pear wrote:
I like Buffett, but I'm of the First Church of Buffett, Orthodox persuasion. He hit his stride as a songwriter during the Key West days, and produced some great narrative lyrics. Tiki was in its death throes, so to speak, and his mantra of the time was to cast off society's expectations and restraints and live life for yourself. Then came Margaritaville, which in and of itself is a tight piece of musical storytelling, but folks who became Parrotheads heard it as a call to get liquored up on margaritas rather than the cautionary, elegiac tale it is (I mean, really, it's not a party song). Everyone wanted more Margaritavilles, and so I think Buffett started writing to appease those fans, and he lost his way in the 80s. He still wrote good songs on occasion, but much of his music became second-rate copies of what he was doing in the 70s. Now the commercialism has taken over and he's just cashing in.

By all accounts he seems to be a decent fellow and someone worth hanging out with, but damn. I mean, retirement communities? I can't even begin to grok that.

Tiki is real buffett is fake
A parrothead does not a tikiphile make
Tiki exists in an earlier time in an earlier place
When men were men and dames were broads
When south sea island magic....has taken possession of me
Drinks were strong and polynesian pu pu’s were

....were whats for dinner

Tiki is polynesian restaurants serving carribean rum drinks and cantonese eggrolls
When a tropical escape to paradise was next to a Howard johnson’s
It was just culture not Tiki culture
It owned the 50’s howie cunningham in a fez
It owned the 60’s blue hawaii and gilligan
It owned the 70’s bobby brady meets don ho
If buffett brought you here of you i would be in fear
For lux and ivy his dame brought me here
......cue....do the clam

On 2018-04-27 15:32, tiki-riviera wrote:
My favorite tiki drink is a Pina Colada. But at least I drink it out of a tiki mug and I make mine with pineapple ice cream.

Whoa, that's controversial? Crap, I've been drinking Pina Coladas out of the bottle, mixed with some I'm Bananas Over You and Amarula. I'm totally Tikiing wrong!

With any subculture, you don't want to keep solid boundaries. What you do want to keep is a solid core, because that anchors the subculture. Then you can have the fuzzy edges that overlap with other subcultures and interests... Keep the "pure Tiki" at the core and at the edges have burlesque, hot rods, classic Vegas, Disney, vintage monster chic, surf, pre-war Polynesian romanticism, actual Polynesian culture, Jimmy Buffet, Route 66, whatever. You want to have flexibility, individuality, and innovation, but still have a central common reference point.

Oh yeah, I got another one... Volcano Bay is too Party City for me. I like Typhoon Lagoon better as a tropical escape-themed waterpark.

On 2018-04-28 22:54, EnchantedTikiGoth wrote:
With any subculture, you don't want to keep solid boundaries. What you do want to keep is a solid core, because that anchors the subculture. Then you can have the fuzzy edges that overlap with other subcultures and interests... Keep the "pure Tiki" at the core and at the edges have burlesque, hot rods, classic Vegas, Disney, vintage monster chic, surf, pre-war Polynesian romanticism, actual Polynesian culture, Jimmy Buffet, Route 66, whatever. You want to have flexibility, individuality, and innovation, but still have a central common reference point.

Oh yeah, I got another one... Volcano Bay is too Party City for me. I like Typhoon Lagoon better as a tropical escape-themed waterpark.

Very well said. I think this is really thought-provoking, especially about keeping a solid core of tiki aficionados. No matter what we think or do, others will continue to adapt and innovate.

Btw, the water park at Wild Adventures in Valdosta GA (the park where the ending scenes from Zombieland were filmed) is also Party City tiki. Nobody there knows any better, and they don't care, because it is a colorful and fun environment. (It was sold to them that way by their concept developer after they went through a public opinion survey selection process - people who were annual passholders chose that theme in an online series of surveys.) It's not truly tiki in a pure sense, but definitely tiki-influenced. I'll take that over nothing at all, and definitely over some lame cartoon character theming which others have done.

Oh, one more thing... How many of us, as a direct result of true tiki, will ever come to settle for lousy cocktails in our lifetimes? Thanks to tiki, many of us have discovered a whole new super high quality cocktail world above what the general population is often stuck drinking. Thank you TIKI. I am keeping an open mind though, and I like to look for contributions from other side-genres. (Examples: Surf rock = fun music. Burlesque = boobs - haha!)

On 2018-04-28 22:15, Tiki Roa wrote:
....were whats for dinner

Tiki is polynesian restaurants serving carribean rum drinks and cantonese eggrolls
When a tropical escape to paradise was next to a Howard johnson’s
It was just culture not Tiki culture
It owned the 50’s howie cunningham in a fez
It owned the 60’s blue hawaii and gilligan
It owned the 70’s bobby brady meets don ho
If buffett brought you here of you i would be in fear
For lux and ivy his dame brought me here
......cue....do the clam

Tiki culture will always mean different things to different people, depending on how they were introduced to it and what kind of regular presence it has in their lives.

While we can all try to agree (or disagree) about the details of what constitutes tiki purity, an attitude of snobbish elitism isn't going to help keep tiki culture alive or attractive to future generations.

Whether we like it or not, this is not your grandfather's tiki...

On 2018-04-29 07:19, tikitube wrote:
Tiki culture will always mean different things to different people, depending on how they were introduced to it and what kind of regular presence it has in their lives.

Yep... It was Disney what brung me to the dance, so my sense of Tiki for me is very much rooted in the Enchanted Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise, Adventureland aesthetic, dappled with 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea because I'm even more of a fan of Jules Verne and Victorian Sci-Fi than I am of Tiki. Coming from that angle brings in mermaids and pirates and monsters and other fantastical things... For me, places like Typhoon Lagoon and Weeki Wachi Springs and movies like King Kong have more to do with what makes Tiki appealing to me than does burlesque and hot rods, even though none of those things are strictly Tiki themselves. But all that said, I can recognize that there is a core of what Tiki is that serves as my reference point. I'm well aware that I'm shambling about more in Tiki's fuzzy edges.

Tiki Bob sucks. It's not even a Tiki.

On 2018-04-29 10:32, GROG wrote:
Tiki Bob sucks. It's not even a Tiki.

:lol: :D :P

Here's my hot take:

The Painkiller is a terrible drink. Even a "good" one is one dimensional and way too sweet.

Mmmmm...Painkillers....that's what I make in batch when tailgating at Buffett. Ha.

On 2018-04-30 09:21, Quince_at_Dannys wrote:
Here's my hot take:

The Painkiller is a terrible drink. Even a "good" one is one dimensional and way too sweet.

I'll row that boat out even further - I feckin' HATE coconut.

The Exotica and Tiki revival was kickstarted by a Southern California Neo-Nazi/Industrial-music enthusiast named Boyd Rice, who played Martin Denny records over the PA before his concerts, and the staff of Flipside Magazine, who hung out at the Tiki Ti way before it was hip.

"Classic" Tiki drinks like the Mai Tai were just already existing cocktails that substituted cheap crappy rums (and cheap, bitter seed-free limes instead of yummy lemons) for the more expensive original ingredients; Don and Vic didn't invent any drinks.

eg. the Mai Tai is just a Sidecar, but uses Rum instead of $$$ Cognac.

Try a Sidecar, they're amazing.

Cammo IS alive!!!!!

AND KICKING!!!!

Les Baxter's original Quiet Village song wasn't about Polynesia; it's about Africa.

Stand back.....here’s one.......’er two.....Reggae music is TIKi.....and olmec heads should be reclassified as TIKI.....ta-dow!

On 2018-04-30 09:21, Quince_at_Dannys wrote:
Here's my hot take:

The Painkiller is a terrible drink. Even a "good" one is one dimensional and way too sweet.

Nailed it, don’t know when I’d ever want something that sweet that wasn’t also tart.