The New Tiki - Is it Tiki

A while back on FB, I noticed one of the four gods of Tiki, Sven, got ejected from the FB Group, Tiki for Everyone. His crime was saying something wasn't tiki.

I haunt pipesmagazine.com, a pipe smoking forum and the subject of tiki and pipe smoking came up. A few of the posters were adamant that crimes against humanity such as blowing up atolls in the Pacific should be a part of regular tiki discussion.

I am not having it. Tiki, for me, should be the one place one escapes from the world of PC and political responsibility. However, younger and newer tikiphiles disagreed and thought that was an antiquated view on Tiki that showed my age.

What are your thoughts?

I am with you 100%. Don’t let the Tiki newbies have their way and pull all sorts of politics and other BS into the threads. Tiki is escapism, pure and simple. These people think they are enlightened, when clearly they are only misinformed and incorrect with crazy agendas they want to push on everyone else. I want Tiki to remain fun and friendly escapism for all generations regardless of age or political orientation. To do otherwise is kapu!

That stuff is relevant to the history of the Pacific, but should not be a "regular" discussion for people interested in tiki bars or culture.

It’s wonderful that people, young people, are discovering and supporting tiki bars and restaurants. I understand that they will of course bring their own sense of discovery to these places - it’s to be expected. But what I object to is any sense of PC or need to run it through a purity test. That can never be tiki. I found it interesting that for many of them, tiki is just a place where one gets loud, drunk, and obscene. And that’s it.

Ok so if you kick Sven off of a site you should be made to turn in your book of tiki.

What the heck is going on if you want to say some right, wrong, smart, or nonsense statement so be it, you will then need to defend your words or die by them.

You DO have the right to have a Star Wars bar, but another person has a right to say damn that is stupid.

Then you and he can go on and on about how you are right, and he is wrong.

Is that not ok these days, cuz that's what I grew up with.

Can people not handle or take words that do not agree with their points of view anymore?

This whole you can do a thumbs up or down to a thread or post and people won't know it's you, damn can you not stand up and say I don't like or agree with that idea, thing, art, tiki, these days! And yeah, that's me and it is MY view and own it like a man or strong woman.

I think tiki should be old school quiet and classy with the kind of tiki that is natural and made from organic materials with no led color changing lights with non-rap music.

That is MY view, my idea, and I OWN it!

Now make your bar your way, for your people, and that's fine too.

I think people that can't stand up and defend their views or opinions are weak and have no leg to stand on that's why they resort to that guy's got to go cuz we can't handle his views.

Sven post on TC why did you stop posting here? This is the place for you Sven.

Don't know if that's what you were asking but there it is.

The new Tiki is everything BUT Tiki. It's nothing but a Disney crowd who are into collecting character mugs.

Back in the late 60's and early 70's there was a popular poster that pretty much sums up my thoughts on the current feeding frenzy:

"I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, And you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful. If not, it can't be helped."

(Fritz Perls, "Gestalt Therapy Verbatim", 1969)

The revisionist historians and social justice warriors would be better served if they would get out of their mamma's basements, put down their cell phones and experience the real world, with real human to human interactions, and learn how to deal with those whose opinions differ from their own.

Yes, I'm a Boomer. Yes, I'm old. But I got to see some really cool tiki bars!

God knows I have had some serious and at times heated back and forth with a few folks here on this very subject, Like I have said many times before, Tiki is a historically Mid Century, defined aesthetic, it is quantifiable in the many influences that define it and as such any reinterpretation changes it to something else, it no longer recreates a sense of time and place from what it is based on, therefore it is possible to define what is Tiki and what is not, so many people today (not just the young folks) cannot take any sort of criticism and react to it as some sort of personal attack, it is because critical thinking has mostly become extinct, everything is based on feelings now, facts don't matter any more, the result is an inane understanding of free speech, becoming group-think censorship and social banishment to those whom don't agree, that is what they did to Sven, as always it has to be said, that no one is telling anyone what they can or can't do, mashup whatever you damn well please, but at the end of the day your Gothic, Monster, Star Wars, Disney, Scary Clown, Pirate Sex Bar is not a Tiki Bar just because you add Tiki Mugs and a few fish floats, why you ask? because it never existed in that specific time and place that we now call Tiki, it doesn't mean it isn't a cool place to chill and imbibe, it means it is a disparate hodgepodge of all your likes and interests mashed together in a place to get drunk in, now if you don't mind, I am going to my Bettie Page, Synthesizer, Motor Cycle, Vintage Hat, 50s SciFi Toy Bar for a Old Fashioned, Laters!

I am going to my Bettie Page, Synthesizer, Motor Cycle, Vintage Hat, 50s SciFi Toy Bar for a Old Fashioned

If there are no fez-wearing monkeys or rockabilly tattoos, it ain't faux-Tiki!

When dealing with these sorts of people, it's best to remember that they are primarily expressing their opinions in order to virtue-signal that they are more enlightened than you are. It's a form of control, much like a cult religion that substitutes politics and secular Utopianism for a supreme being. I was raised in an era when it was ok not to agree with someone else's opinion, and for the most part, politics and religion were simply not discussed in polite conversation.

That being said, the West's treatment of Polynesia was, on the whole, pretty horrible, and yet, Tiki looks upon it as a Paradise on Earth, filled with wonder, roast luau pork, Hula, and lots of rum. Not sure how that can in any way be a bad thing.

End of Transmission.

[ Edited by MrBaliHai on 2022-08-20 07:34:35 ]

I think I straddle the line between the generational borders y'all are drawing. I try not to bring politics into Tiki--and this isn't always easy--and it isn't always people younger than me that try to have that discussion. Recently a Twitter thread I was in went awry, and the person complaining about Tiki's offensive aspects was older than me.

I'm 38. I'm on the Gen X/Millennial border. Cold Y specifically (as in when I started schooling, the USSR was still a thing, and some of the last nuclear drills had us going under desks, watched the Berlin Wall fall down, etc. Cold in Cold Y is from the closing of the Cold War). My parents are early boomers. (1946/1952). My grandparents were the generation that enjoyed tiki as adults (1914/1922). I've been into tiki and Mid-Century stuff to some degree since I was in high school in the 1990s, when it was incredibly unknown in small town rural-turning-suburban Texas. I wore Hawaiian shirts to school. I was fully unaware of a wider Tiki revival.

That didn't happen until the mid-00s. Which is around the time I started lurking around places like Tiki Central. I just didn't participate--and I moved to Japan.

That said, I probably hold many political opinions y'all are talking about generally. I am no trad. Very much the opposite. A lot of y'all would probably consider me an out and out communist. I have no wish to live in the 1950s or 1960s. They sucked for large swaths of people, including people like me. I am quite happy to be able to pick out the art, music, fashion, and design elements I like and leave the discrimination, lower standard of living, etc back in the past where it belongs.

As for elements intersecting tiki I don't think are tiki? We probably agree. I don't mind the things like the Tiki Room or the Jungle Cruise, which are very near me, and I mean we do get Trader Sam's in the US. The former two are of the time, at least. 1960s Adventureland. But I don't see the point of bringing in a lot of Disney. Not into horror or Star Wars or Marvel combinations. Definitely not princesses. Things like the Geeki Tikis don't interest me. But I'm not going to crap on other people for enjoying those things.

I am appalled to hear any Tiki space would drive out Sven for saying something wasn't Tiki. Surely he meant in the classic sense as he has so defined it as an academic expert. Unless he started insulting people directly, I don't get that kind of behavior at all.

[ Edited by SouthSeasKat on 2022-08-14 06:02:58 ]

It's obvious that there are two major camps on this issue, the Traditionalists, and the free-form catch-all crowd. While I would consider myself a Tiki Traditionalist, I can see the appeal of having an open concept of what "plays well" with a broader Tiki style. I think this is best summed up in the wide introduction of Surf Rock into the soundtrack for Tiki spaces. While I understand why this happened, it would hardly have been common to hear The Ventures playing at a Trader Vic's in their heyday. Surf is not Exotica, it is Surf. But, it is fun, escapist music all the same.

I wonder sometimes if aficionados of other styles, like Edwardian Parlor Design, have this issue. Is it perhaps due to the nature of the third-wave Tiki Revival? I dunno.

I almost feel like we're well into a fourth wave at this point.

There are folks into Tiki younger than me. True millennials and some Zoomers.

Is Tiki revivalism in the social media age not different than even the Web 2.0 (forums like TC) and very much different from Web 1.0 in the mid-to-late 1990s?

I think so.

"I am appalled to hear any Tiki space would drive out Sven for saying something wasn't Tiki. Surely he meant in the classic sense as he has so defined it as an academic expert. Unless he started insulting people directly, I don't get that kind of behavior at all."

Sven has a small bit of non-tiki in his room like the Barbie diorama scene I think he has in his room so he's no harsh traditional tiki only person, I as well have bits of non-traditional tiki in my space too.

Man, it's just talking about yer views and with Sven it is a more educated view as heck he wrote the book.

But Sven is not a guy that will insult people, he would just walk away as far as what I have seen of him.

If not for other views I for one did not think of this...

"I have no wish to live in the 1950s or 1960s. They sucked for large swaths of people,"

For me the 60s thru the 80s were great! best time ever. So, hearing others gets me to know a different take on many things.

But this time right now is so fragile and so quick to say you offended me to make you a villain and them a victim.

Being a victim today is good, back in my day it was seen as bad.

Ya got to watch every word so close. And many old guys like me did not come up in a time where that was how it was so were not good at this new game of you are the bad guy.

Back when I was young we pushed each other's buttons that was the name of the game, the things we called each other back then would get us kicked out of school for life today.

It's obvious that there are two major camps on this issue, the Traditionalists, and the free-form catch-all crowd.

I lean towards Traditionalism, but my home bar has some distinctly non-traditional items, which I keep because they work in the space or else have some sentimental value. As others have already stated, I don't have any problem with people who want to build a Star Wars cantina in their basement, or a Creature From the Black Lagoon bar, but this forum was created to preserve a very specific incarnation of Mid-century Polynesian Pop culture, and that's primarily what I come here to read about. All that other stuff belongs in Beyond Tiki or Bilge.

I have no wish to live in the 1950s or 1960s. They sucked for large swaths of people, including people like me.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that those decades didn't have major issues. I grew up the 60s and 70s, and although I had a (mostly) good time, I was well aware of the racial tensions and the Generation Gap. I remember shocking my mother when I was 8 and told her that I opposed the Vietnam War...:-D

My beef is with people who will try to get you kicked off a forum or even contact your employer to try and get you fired, just because you don't affirm their fragile belief system, or refuse to self-flagellate for some real or imaginary transgression. I grew up Catholic, so I've had enough guilt trips imposed on me to last a lifetime.

Here is rule three from the site that censored Sven:

PLEASE don't ask "is this tiki?". It's up to you to decide whether or not it is. "This ISN'T tiki" is a trigger. Don't post it. Ditto with "Clown Tiki".

Here is what he did that caused the commotion:

Unfortunately, those people have always been, and will always be with us. Pearl clutchers. Monocole poppers. Won't somebody please think of the children!? It is the current state of social media ubiquity that has amplified the already loud voices of the perpetually offended. About all you can do is ignore them when possible. As the saying goes, don't feed the Trolls.

I would like to add one thing. If saying something Isn't Tiki is a trigger, than what isn't a trigger?

Which brings me back to the question, Is the New Tiki really Tiki if everything - apparently not clowns - is tiki?

[ Edited by telescopes on 2022-08-14 08:43:49 ]

We, as a society, still have a long way to go in regards to being truly inclusive of diversity. And Tiki, like all fandoms, is a microcosm of society. Ergo, Tiki has had and continues to have problems being truly inclusive of diversity.

The 80s are another decade, one I actually remember and experienced, where a lot of the pop culture means a lot to me. But again, I am part of a group that had a pretty crappy time, and I marvel at how far we've come. It is absolutely right that horrific crap said to me as a child or as a teenager is taken much more seriously these days, and that children and teens growing up don't have to put up with the abuse that I did, or at least, they have recourse that I didn't. My parents were always supportive, but there were teachers and administrators who were every bit as much abusers as my peers. That is significantly reduced in 2022 vs 1989 or 1999.

And no, MrBaliHai, no one here is suggesting that, I hope! However, TC is one but arena, and there is a definite... Trad subculture that romanticises and idealises the Mid-Century in ways you only can if you are in a very, very, very narrow demographic (and ironically, not all of them are, failing to realise that if they found a time machine, this or that or the other aspect of their identity would get them excluded). If you like Tiki or Mid-Century music or Mid-Century architecture/furniture etc, you will eventually run into them.

I don't believe in kicking people off forums unless they are truly disruptive or abusive. I certainly oppose doxxing. But I do believe groups have a right to protect themselves against cancerous elements. If someone is going around being a jerk and making everyone feel bad, it's a very good thing to show that person the door. I do not for one second believe Sven was behaving in such a way.

I was also raised Catholic. And I hear you on the guilt.

So when I said this... "Back when I was young we pushed each other's buttons that was the name of the game, the things we called each other back then would get us kicked out of school for life today."

I was talking about mostly white guys messing with each other to be clear.

We at my school had very little diversity and for the most part everybody was so afraid you would think them racists that they went the other way and gushed and were really nice to anyone not white.

It is still that way in Upper Arlington today, I find it really fake.

Don't know if a definition of tiki is the same as diversity? This is the type of tiki that would fit the definitions of an old tiki bar style and that is from Indonesia.

This is the kicker the guy who started that question was a first-time poster on that site and got SVEN kicked off! Ha! you traded a world of knowledge for is this tiki newbie guy?

AND that Pie chart I don't think is on TC Sven, Why not?

Put your time and knowledge where it counts.

The question is who are the people who call the shots on that site? I was in a group that did not like Sven and defending him was frowned on.

Would bet one or more of the people that run that site might have a fez.

Tiki welcomes diversity. It can be enjoyed by any group but I am more than aware that not everyone will either enjoy or be comfortable with all aspects or even any aspects of Tiki.

That much is clear and who really cares. Not everything is for everyone.

There is a certain suspension of disbelief that occurs for lovers of tiki - especially old school tiki.

Politically Correct Tiki can never be Tiki if for this only reason: Tiki is not only made up, it is ABSOLUTELY white-washed.

BUT - so are a lot of things ethnically washed.

Pow wows are washed by Native Americans - I suppose you could say red washed. They certainly don't represent the ceremonial gatherings of 200 years ago and their welcoming of all peoples would not have been evident back then either.

Certain aspects of Africanized culture are washed by modern people. Today it is about the welcoming spirit of empowerment and love - back then, that would not have been the case.

Every group finds an aspect of escapism to an imaginary time of romance with the past that just never existed in real life.

I've been to the Trader Vics in Thailand. Make believe is everywhere. And look at how successful TV is in the Middle East. There is NOTHING in their culture to say, "Yeh, that's how we do things". In fact, TV is just the opposite of everything they hold dear... and yet, escapism is necessary.

The dream of Shangri la is not owned by any one group.

Here is proof - Every group of people want to come to America to participate in the "American Dream". This is a dream neither based on reality or reflective of anything resembling reality. Yet, a home in the suburbs with a couple of cars, a lawn, a BBQ, and that idyllic life captivates so many around the world.

Dreams - after a hard day at work, joining up with the spouse or a few friends at a Tiki Bar or restaurant and escaping is just the ticket. Real or not.

I am not Native American nor am I African by descent, but I certainly enjoy attending and enjoying aspects of their culture. I love going to Pow Wows, Kwanza gatherings, and I certainly enjoy my many travels to cultures for and wide around the world. Having been to nearly 30 countries and having participated in many of their cultures and traditions, I feel that they are not really all that different in some ways than tiki.

[ Edited by telescopes on 2022-08-14 11:17:28 ]

[ Edited by telescopes on 2022-08-14 11:20:14 ]

Ergo, Tiki has had and continues to have problems being truly inclusive of diversity.

I'd highly recommend reading Beachbum Berry's "Sippin' Safari" and "Potions of the Caribbean" to get a clearer picture of how much Tiki culture owes to Philipinos like Ray Buhen and Dick Santiago, as well as Cuban and Caribbean restaurateurs and bar owners. Also, I've been to any number of Tiki bars that have gay and POC clientele. Nobody is turning them away. Tiki is immensely popular in other countries with non-white populations as well. In fact, my first exposure to it was being taken out to dinner by my parents when I was 9 for dinner at the Trader Vic's in Kuwait City, and that was all the way back in 1968.

Are there narrow-minded people into Tiki? I'm sure there are some, but I can honestly say that I've yet to meet any. Everyone I've hung out with has been very open and accepting. There is certainly imagery that some people will see as problematic, going back all the way to the 19th century, but very little of it that I've seen is actually disparaging of Polynesia, the vast majority of it portrays the islands as a lost Paradise before the Fall.

[ Edited by MrBaliHai on 2022-08-14 14:39:19 ]

Remember that Twitter thread gone awry I mentioned? In it, I cited to them the very history you cited to me to explain how Tiki would not be what it was without the significant contributions of AAPI folks. I even shared historical documents and more recent articles.

Remember, I may be new to TC (at least as a poster), but I am not new to Tiki.

However, I would definitively say, and can prove it (but would rather move forward than go back) there is problematic, exclusionary behavior even right here on TC. There's an entire thread that starts with something I find horribly offensive. In the now, not related to the past, or more accurately a fantasy past that never existed. It really shocked and upset me. I even took a few weeks or longer off from TC because I felt excluded. I know rationally it wasn't intended that way, and I chose to let it go without further comment, but if I see its like again, I will say something.

Just here to say that Sven didn't get ejected from Tiki for Everyone! he left it after, what seemed to me to be, a fair, well reasoned and slightly humorous reply of his was deleted by the mods. Seems that it was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

You are correct - he was censored - not tossed. But it is clear that Tiki for Everyone is absolutely delighted to toss you if you break the unbreakable rule of suggesting that not everything one thinks of tiki is tiki - except that is for clowns. Apparently, even TFE agrees, clowns are not tiki. Hell, I am not even sure they are people. Soylent Green is people. Clowns are something else.

Palm Springs, my home town, is now a tiki haven. And yes, Toucans is tiki... LOL. It's a great place.

I have to say that I am constantly amazed at recent Generations complete inability to contextualize anything, especially relating to history.

GROG hate contextualizing! Especially history!!

This thread reminds me of this other one that seemed to really spiral after I posted Sven's Circle of Tiki:

https://tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic_id=53204&post_id=796084&start=48#post-796084

[ Edited by Hamo on 2022-08-20 00:19:37 ]

General Rules

No discussing religion or politics. Tiki Central is not the place for this kind of discussion.

...can we keep this culture war rubbish on Facebook where it belongs. None of these post are advancing or informing our collective knowledge of Tiki.

People are happy to write a 1000 words on a spat that happened on Facebook but where are the post on the OA auction or exhibits?

"People are happy to write a 1000 words on a spat that happened on Facebook but where are the post on the OA auction or exhibits?"

It did in a way have to do with Sven getting kicked off of a site then to find out his words got removed but Sven getting kicked off of a site is tiki central newsworthy.

But I think the post was about keeping religion or politics off of tiki sites if I'm correct.

Then some PC stuff did make its way in so that made many run for the hills.

These posts most of the time flare up hot and heavy then die out kinda fast, till somebody brings them back from the dead.

Right here is one post about OA I started some time ago, there are a few OA threads too. https://tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic_id=53863

Double post.

[ Edited by tikiskip on 2022-08-20 05:32:11 ]

To be clear, the Sven example was an example to clarify and illustrate a simple question. Has the culture of Tiki taken on a new face where any thing one calls tiki is now considered tiki? TC has been off market for quite a while and I am curious if the people here agree. I believe it is a legitimate question.

I would say this topic is fair game as it questions today's social mores/attitudes pertaining to the definition of "Tiki" and flawed concept's such as cultural appropriation etc. it hasn't crossed into the political realm, from what I have read so far and has kept to Social commentary, very much on point as I have had very one sided and uninformed "verbal meltdowns" I mean "discussions" with some younger folks looking for self validation on why I shouldn't be wearing that "Hawaiian Bark cloth Shirt"

Yup. I understand how each generation alters and changes how tiki is expressed and what it means to them. I wonder if li es can be drawn at all. Or, if one should even try. However, I just can’t reconcile any attempts to”purify” tiki. By that, I mean keep the continuum intact and preserved and celebrated.

Right On! I mean....I concur.

So my opinion...FWIW. Any "movement", Tiki, art, music is as much about what it is NOT as what it IS. There are parameters. If everything is Tiki, then Tiki per se. just ceases to exist.

I am not old enough to have experienced the heyday of Tiki, however that's what I am trying to recreate for my own enjoyment. Tiki was always a "fantasy", right from the start. It represented no particular place and yet it did stick to things that might be contained by the Pacific Rim. Tiki was most effective away from anywhere "island-ish". If you could see real palm trees and beaches outside, then it was not a fantasy to walk inside and see fake stuff. Alaska (it had a bar), or something like the fabled "KAHIKI" in chilly Columbus of all places, is where the fantasy worked best. (Whoever demolished it should be forever consigned to the rum-less depths of Hell!) All those idols that you saw were NOT carved by natives to represent their Gods, but by sculptors who saw a way of making a living by producing something that LOOKED as though it just MIGHT have come from some remote uncivilised island out in the wilds of the Pacific.

Now if anyone finds Tiki not inclusive or diverse enough, add other stuff by all means BUT just be aware it's then NOT Tiki. You wouldn't add Mozart to a collection devoted specifically to Jazz, nor a Rembrandt to your French Impressionists if you are a collector of those. (Oh to have the money to do that!)

"EXOTICA" is often taken for a synonym of "TIKI" but in truth it's not. Exotic simply means from outside the borders of your country. You live in the USA? Then Cossacks and wildebeest are certainly exotic for you, but then you're not going to have them or see them in any Tiki collection. Just know that it's really exotica, and not Tiki.

As mentioned above, collections are about choosing what to include and what to reject. Genuine collectors of Tiki (or anything else for that matter) do this all the time. If you don't exercise this necessary discernment then you might just have an eclectic gathering but it doesn't constitute "Tiki". Calling it so just doesn't automatically make it so.

I see "pirates" as being somewhat contentious here. Now I confess that I do have a LITTLE bit of "pirate-alia" in my own bar. (I also have a small but fully functional cannon, but that's a story for another time!) Reason for those piratey things? Well pirates very often called the Caribbean home , (Port Royal) ...yes I DO know that's NOT within the Pacific Rim, however consider this. MOST Tiki cocktails are based on rum...yes? And the home and source of rum was the Caribbean Islands, so maybe the aforementioned Pacific Rim needs a little bulge adding in the East? Pirates and sailors were probably the first to put lime in rum, for it's prevention of scurvy, and we are still doing it. Maybe not for scurvy these days but well, if you love all those fabulous Tiki cocktails you'll know why. Although I have never had any patron of my Tiki Bar come down with scurvy! Perhaps some disorientation and a little difficulty standing yes, ....but NOT scurvy!

[ Edited by TIKIGIKI on 2022-08-22 23:52:34 ]

[ Edited by TIKIGIKI on 2022-08-22 23:55:12 ]

It’s interesting to note that the very people who helped keep tiki alive today may very well be the ones to sink it for good - all in the name of preventing cultural appropriation. Think about it.

My brand of tiki is not cultural appropriation really it has bits of this and that from many cultures.

Cantonese food Chinese tiles tiki from all over Tapa from Tonga mostly ideas from OA and Disney and elsewhere etc.

You know if there is any cultural appropriation it would be from Trader Vic Bregon or Donn Beach as it is something they put together in their quest for money.

It's more American business than any culture out there.

BUT if you do live say in California and do worry about cultural appropriation, are you in an area that is not telling you to not plug your car in because the power grid might shut down.

Are they also telling you not to use electricity because of the same thing?

If you are dealing with issues like that, do you really have time to deal with the fact that you might upset somebody with your tiki collection?

So, was Archie Bunker cultural appropriation and slander all rolled up into one TV show?

Guess I grew up in a different time.

[ Edited by tikiskip on 2022-09-05 16:06:39 ]

I think that this subject is along the lines that you see in many "collectors" circles. For instance, what is a classic car? to many here it might be 30-50's. to me my 1966 mustang. to someone else a 1980' honda. For the folks that started or lived in the classic time of tiki, it will always mean one thing. for the majority of us, its about say 75% of that thing.

My own bar has changed alot as I've collected. I only really started about 25 years ago just before the cusp of the mass auction web sites started eating most things up. Do I have some Geeki Tiki mugs hiding around? Sure, but they are not in the bar. i do have one or two african masks on display, but they are not the elephant or lion adorned style and very lowkey. And while I have a ton of pirate stuff again its not IN the bar. I took the time to ask questions and look at what was being taught here at tiki central. I've proudly had a chat or two with sven about certain things and always found his knowledge of history welcome.

Does that mean the guy who shows up with his rainbow tiki mask, old ratan chair and cheap drink mixs be the new norm......... no. And it does dominate pages like FB. All we can do here is to teach and learn and protect the history of where tiki came from and how it got here today.

For those of you not on Facebook, this is the type of thing you'll find in the group "Tiki for Everyone". And the members of the group go crazy for it.

The TFE crowd must have mistakenly grabbed this book instead:

That almost made me spit out my red Mai Tai with grenadine!

"Once everything is Tiki, then nothing is." You may quote me.

Without borders then there's just no specifics. TIKI is an historic mid-century movement and therefore a whole encapsulation of ideas, dreams, happy escapism and associated items. I make no apologies for being a purist when it comes down to my obsession and collection. I WANT to enjoy the movement as it WAS, and as the many lovers of it try to re-create. There are now, just as there were back then many things that are NOT Tiki! GET OVER IT!

Sure parts of Tiki can NOW be denigrated by the current "everything is offensive" movement, but don't try to change it, don't try to tack on your own fantasies and then demand everybody accept it .....OR ELSE!!!. (An all too common dictate now.) Go start your own damn genre.

Tiki is obviously male. So, that being undisputed, where does this leave tiki in a reimagined woke world of inclusivity for all? To change this fact would be to meddle even further in the culture of "less" powerful (?) peoples.

Give me a break, I can't even write this stuff, seriously.

That's the thing about this new-found woke demand for "inclusivity" and "diversity". Despite its proclaimed aim, it actually eliminates so much and will, if allowed to continue, manufacture THE most dull, bland, uniform, unexciting mediocrity the world has ever seen. Any unapproved genres will cease to exist, due to being "cancelled" . Resistance is everything!

[ Edited by TIKIGIKI on 2022-09-26 16:16:09 ]

While I don't care for constant public virtue signaling and I really detest the "white guilt" I see from a lot of people fighting battles that are not theirs to fight, I feel there's nothing wrong with opening Tiki up for others to enjoy. That isn't being "woke"—that's just being welcoming.

Tiki has become highly profitable where it wasn't before—that's what I see as the biggest problem with it and one of the primary drivers behind the de-evolution of the new revival. When there are so many people trying to make a quick buck by producing shitty so-called "Tiki" products (everything from mugs to home decor) that completely ignore how sophisticated Tiki actually is, you've got a problem. If people associate day-glo, ridiculous depictions of Tiki imagery with actual Tiki/Polynesian Pop stuff, it gives fuel to those who would claim it's disrespectful and tacky. The blame game here is not as cut and dry as it appears to be—just my two cents.

SO much of what you mention seems to be now manufactured/carved in Bali. "Cartoon-tiki"?

Bali??

Most of the garbage I see is cheap plastic or resin manufactured in China. If anyone is making Clown Tiki in Bali, that's news to me.