Chi-Chi's Mai Tai

Has anyone tried the bottled Chi-Chi's Mai-Tai? It's red, so I don't have high hopes for it.

At least there's a tiki on the bottle.

I haven't tried that one, but of all of the pre-mixes I have tried they all sucked.

Well, more specifically, they sucked big . I don't expect that particular brand to be any beter.

The pre-mixes are OK if you are serving the unwashed masses who don't know the true joy that is a Mai-Tai. Or if someone is trying to get you something for your bar and they gift you a bottle, you could find something to to do with it. I hope.

Basicaly what I am trying to say is stay away from the pre-mixes because they have too many things in them that don't belong in a cocktail. Read the ingredients, you'll see what I mean.

The scary thing is that they don't list the ingredients!

I agree with Chip and Andy. About mixes, that is. I'm not even very pleased with the TV Mai Tai Mix (I know, I know). I'm just not sure about all the weird stuff in those things. From what I can tell, the mix takes the place of the curacao, orgeat and sugar syrup. I can't recall if you're supposed to add your own lime juice or not. I think you are. Regardless, aside from the sugar, I don't believe that Mai Tai mix has any of the other "actual" Mai Tai ingredients. There's no curacao in the ingredients. Nothing. You'd think the ingredient list would be three things: Curacao, Orgeat, Sugar Syrup. In that order. But it's not. It's all sorts of God-knows-what chemicals that are "supposed" to taste proper, but let's face it-- they don't.

Ditto with Navy Grog mix. I was trying to make a voodoo grog and realized that the recipe calls for Navy Grog mix (TV bartender guide, revised). Well, I look at the navy grog recipes I've got and can't really come up with a good consensus about what would go into a Navy Grog mix. Since I don't know the mystery ingredients, I can't just make a voodoo grog from scratch, and I don't have all the weird chemicals in my house to make my own. Wish I had a meth lab. Even then I probably couldn't do it.

It's a real hassle.

As far as Mai Tai mix goes, if you only want it to give to people who don't know any better, and you just wanna save some money, here's what you do-- buy all the cheapest ingredients you can find instead of buying the premade mixes. Use Finest Call orgeat, bar syrup, etc. You could use the cheapest curacao, or if you're really stingy, use some cheap triple sec. Many of the uninitiated probably won't know the difference. If you work out the cost, you'll only pay $20 to $25 for all these things, and you'll be able to make nearly 50 drinks. If you're using Mai Tai mix, with a bottle being approx 25 oz, you'd need 6 bottles of Mai Tai mix for 50 drinks. At approximately $5 per bottle, you're talking $30, so it actually costs more to use the premade mix and doesn't even taste as good as buying everything separate.
The only advantage is the convenience, IMO.

I have a bottle of Trader Vic's Mai Tai mix in my bar that is probably bad by now because I have never used it since the first time. Good looking label so I keep it there but I tried it once and it sucked. Juice some limes, get a bottle of orgeat and curacao, make some simple syrup and you will never be tempted to try the pre mixed crap again.

On 2007-02-28 19:17, aloha.taboo wrote:
Has anyone tried the bottled Chi-Chi's Mai-Tai? It's red, so I don't have high hopes for it.

These are the same people who make blue "Zombie" mix.
Run, run like the wind.......

I've found that while drink mixes can be rather despicable and (of course) unauthentic, there's still merit in keeping them around the bar. Mainly because if you ever just want to mix up a made-up drink on the fly, a dash of mix can really add life to a drink.

For instance, I always keep a little Strawberry Daquiri mix, because just a bit adds great flavor from time to time. And I usually keep some Pina Colada mix too, because it can better hold up to really acidic drinks than can coconut milk.

Like I often say, if you're a TikiCentral purist, then I'm speaking sacriledge. But if you're strapped for ingredients for feel like being whimsy, give it a try.

About those bottled drink mixes...

When I see how well-stocked most of the large beverage chains are with these dreadful concoctions, along with those gallon-sized bottles of white Bacardi they always have on sale, I understand why the profane world can easily dismiss "those horrible sticky-sweet tropical drinks with the umbrellas." This is what they see all the time, at family barbecues and chain restaurants.

We cannot blame them for their ignorance; we can only try to enlighten them.

Or not. [Hic!] More for us.

Don't ever buy pre-made mixers. They're all rubbish and full of sugar and artificial this and that. Some may have some amount of real lime juice, etc.; but still, it's rubbish all the same. Make your own pre-made mixer. It's quite easy, and the mix will last a long time in the fridge. There really are only three essential ingredients one needs for a mai tai mixer, and the rest is easy.

These are the ingredients for the Terence Gunn Mai Tai, of which, when given to the recipient drinker, I have never gotten anything short of an ecstatic reaction to; and which is very close to Victor Bergeron's original recipe.

Fresh-squeezed lime juice (1 jigger/16 ounce mug)
{Don't buy your limes at a grocery store, as they're too damned expensive. Go to an Asian market or a place like Cash N Carry. For the price of 3 or 4 grocery store limes, one can get a whole bag full}
Orgeat (almond) syrup (1/2 shot/16 oz mug)
Water (for dilution) (1/2 cup/16 oz mug)

(Rock candy syrup -- although original to the recipe -- is 'sweet' over-kill and superfluous to the overall flavour of the drink. Don't use it.)

Put these ingredients together in a pitcher or capped bottle/container, and store in the fridge to keep cold. When cold and when required.....

In a cocktail shaker add 1 cup of mixer with:
1 jigger golden rum (Appleton),
1 jigger dark rum (Myers),
1 jigger triple sec (or Cointreau if you're wealthy)

DO NOT ADD ICE! Shake vigourously for 15 seconds.

Then pour into a 16 or 18 oz vessel filled just under halfway with ice.

Garnish with fresh mint sprig.
(Mai tais are not garnished with fruit! And the original feature of dropping in the drink the spent lime shell, simply takes up too much room, and does little to enhance the drink's flavour.)

Add straw.

Savour.

But be careful! These can be very addictive!

Now, of course, even with an excellent recipe, some folks simply cannot follow it/bring it into fruition properly. But should you be able to you'll have a perfect mai tai every time, without having to have resorted to store bought pre-made mixers!

Okole Maluna!

[ Edited by: DJ Terence Gunn 2007-03-04 16:14 ]

Ditto to the above except find orange curacao not triple sec. Potters is decent and about the same as triple sec.

On 2007-03-04 21:35, Ojaitimo wrote:
Ditto to the above except find orange curacao not triple sec. Potters is decent and about the same as triple sec.

Potters? Potters is one of, if not THE, lowest of the low bottom shelf liquors.

More expensive Curacao and Cointreau drinken straight are one thing, but as a component of a drink with several ingredients nobody will taste the least slightest difference or subtlety. And Blue Curacao is one of the biggest marketing scams in the liquor industry ever invented. (Yes, those blue oranges are mighty difficult to come by! I simply can't make a Blue Hawaiian without one!) Yes, you can. It's called blue food colouring mixed with orange liqueur; and there are many orange liqueurs at many different prices, and called by many different names; but ultimately, on their own, they all taste sickly sweet and artificial (much like pre-made mixers sold in stores).

I've always called orange liqueur the vermouth of the tropical libation; and indeed it is. But like vermouth -- sweet or dry -- there isn't a tremendous amount of difference in taste (unless one is drinking it on the rocks, or is buying the worst vermouth ever produced and marketed: Lejon.) The same can be said of Sherry and Port wines. One can find a very decent $6 bottle of both and compare the flavour and body to that of one for $20 or more, and find no, if any, difference in flavour or alcohol content, or body. But Sherries and Ports are a bit different, as they're all from the unpredictable grape and its unpredictable harvests and exposure to the elements, and are then fortified with grape brandy -- based initially on the same.

If you want to waste money buy the expensive stuff, sure; shop by the name brand. But you can find the same flavour and effect in a Bols Triple Sec (higher alcohol content, too) or even Hiram Walker.

Now rum -- that's a completely different story, as regionally they are made so differently from each other, and the end result -- straight or mixed -- is very noticeable.

On 2007-03-05 01:33, DJ Terence Gunn wrote:

More expensive Curacao and Cointreau drinken straight are one thing, but as a component of a drink with several ingredients nobody will taste the least slightest difference or subtlety. ...

I challenge you to a Orange Liquor Throwdown! Or something like that, I have been watching too much FoodTV lately.

Yes, and no, on the orange. Flavor wise there is not a lot of difference between the different brands. Cointreau is the original Triple-Sec (so they say), and what is now Triple-Sec is only slightly lower in quality overall. Marie Brizzard, Bols, Hirim Walker, and others all make a Triple-Sec and all of them are good as far as the orange flavor. The difference between most of the mid-level brands is aroma and mouth-feel which are two very under-discussed aspects of modern cocktails. I think the Bols smells like Orange gasoline and the Marie Brizzard leaves a synthetic waxy kind of mouth feel, neither of which is good in a cocktail.

So the challenge is to go back and examine your cocktails from a holistic approach and include the smell of the cocktail as well as the taste. Think also about what the cocktail does in and to the mouth. Do your teeth feel fuzzy after a couple, or do you loose the ability to taste the second drink because something burned out the tastebuds and nose hairs from the first one?

I will end by saying the same thing I say to everyone... it is your bar, brink what you like and like what you drink.

So the challenge is to go back and examine your cocktails from a holistic approach and include the smell of the cocktail as well as the taste. Think also about what the cocktail does in and to the mouth. Do your teeth feel fuzzy after a couple, or do you loose the ability to taste the second drink because something burned out the tastebuds and nose hairs from the first one?

Very well said. But that is, in fact, my point (about the over-all smell and taste of the cocktail once it's finished) concerning using Triple Sec over Cointreau or Curacao. Once in the cocktail (at least the way I prepare it, and using the ingredients I listed in my initial post) I do not taste or smell a difference to the more expensive brands and names. (And yes, I have tried all the others in my mai tais.) As well, buying Myers and Appleton are expensive enough, without having to superfluously indulge your pocket book to Cointreau and Curacao. (And I'm not talking about low-grade, knock-offs that claim to be Curacao.) Good rum and fresh lime juice are the most important factors, not the orange liqueur. And ice (cold temperature) is going to inhibit the flavour of any liquid anyway.

The other ingredients, however, if altered in measurement or substitution, will effect the flavour and smell of the cocktail drastically. Not having enough dilution of water (or crushed ice, if one prefers shaking the contents with crushed ice over not shaking the contents with crushed ice and using a dilution of water) can also surprisingly make or break any mai tai, as well. (The latter can also be said for martinis and manhattans -- which are supposed to be stirred, not shaken, as the shaking with ice will bruise the alcohol and smash the ice, which will dilute the cocktail.)

But once again we stray from the inital post. If one truly respects and appreciates cocktail culture, do not buy pre-made mixers of any kind for any cocktail, even if they have Trader Vic's written on the label or feature a tiki, palm tree, hula gal, etc. (I've a feeling a large amount of the good people who frequent this site would unwittingly substitute their regular toilet paper with a more expensive, less square footage, 1-ply toilet paper, if Trader Vic's had its label on it, or Shag his artwork.)

(I've a feeling a large amount of the good people who frequent this site would unwittingly substitute their regular toilet paper with a more expensive, less square footage, 1-ply toilet paper, if Trader Vic's had its label on it, or Shag his artwork.)

I have half a mind to write you a tart response to this accusation but I can't find my Shag notecards. Harumph!

Chip and Andy wrote "I challenge you to a Orange Liquor Throwdown! Or something like that, I have been watching too much FoodTV lately."

Great idea you two. I want to be a part of this. I suggested using Potters curacao instead of triple sec because it isn't $25. a bottle like Brizzard curacao or their triple sec is. I think the orange peel taste is quite different from triple sec and since they make both they must think so as well. Not that I'm claiming Potter is great curacao but I think its better to stay with the original recipe even using a inexpensive curacao.
I make a point of trying everyones Mai Tai where ever I go and most people and places use triple sec instead of curacao like there is no difference. (I have had some pretty bad Mai Tai'sin my travels but thats another post) "Share your worst Mai Tai here?"
But back to the curacao vs triple sec, yes lets have a food network type Mai Tai Throwdown. I'm up for it.

The mai tai on the left is from the Warehouse with triple sec and sweet & sour
On the right is mine with curacao and fresh lime juice that I challenged them with recently.

Life is a state of mind

[ Edited by: Ojaitimo 2007-03-07 13:13 ]

The mai tai on the left is from the Warehouse with triple sec and sweet & sour
On the right is mine with curacao and fresh lime juice that I challenged them with recently.

Did you win the challenge?
More importantly, did they change their recipe?

On 2007-03-07 12:57, Ojaitimo wrote:
The mai tai on the left is from the Warehouse with triple sec and sweet & sour
On the right is mine with curacao and fresh lime juice that I challenged them with recently.

Don't stop there. Use triple sec and fresh lime juice in one, Curacao and fresh lime juice in the other, and compare the tastes -- blindly, with somebody who you can trust to fool you. I'm not sure where you're getting the sweet n sour from, which certainly does not belong in a mai tai.

But the proof of the mai tai is not only in the making, but the tasting. If any of you are ever in Seattle this summer, drop me an email, come to The Shrunken Head Lounge, and I will show you -- via your taste buds -- that you won't be able to taste the difference between a triple sec mai tai and a Curacao one. Preceding this we will, of course, blind taste test various triple secs, Cointreau, and Curacao.

And as far as the whole Potters Curacao vs. other brands' prices go, Curacao and Cointreau are twice, if not more, as expensive as triple sec. I don't think the Potters Curacao is actually a real Curacao, either.

Original recipe or no, Curacao, Cointrea, Grand Marnier, and Triple Sec are all the same thing: orange liqueur. Straight drinking of them, served at room temperature, will reveal subtle differences between all of them (which is hardly worth the very unsubtle differences in price). But served cold in a mixed cocktail, where its flavour is to merely suggest and complement the overall flavour, one will find no difference.

Sense over Obstinance, Decorum over Decadence.

A poor wiseman can be rich; a foolish millionaire poor.

Well, they are not using grenandine in the mix any longer but still use the sweet and sour. A little progress I suppose.The Warehouse is currently owned by Lee Spencer who I was talking to the other night. He was headed over to Trader Vic's, "I need to see it while it still there." Lee grew up loving tiki and Don the Beachcombers where his parents frequently took him as a child in 1949.
Lee bought the Warehouse about 10 years ago from his friend Burt Hixon a cinematographer who had traveled world wide like Bigbrotiki. Burt now lives in Mexico and visits when he is in town.
John Wayne who was Burts friend helped him build it in Marina Del Rey, California. If you check out the gallery in the front( You will need a good hour) you can see it was quite the place in its day.
The upstairs photographs of his travels are not to be missed either. Happy hour is a great time before the dinner crowds to look around.
In Taboo Table, Jeff Berry has the signature drink from the Warehouse so the history of great drink making is there. Jeff, help us Obiwan.
Tryng to convince them to use fresh limes and once again make drinks like Burt did,(apparently he was a great mixologist) may take a visit from you. I thougtht about bringing a case of limes in and seeing how long it would take to juice a gallons worth of juice. I'm guessing 20 minutes.

So what is the difference between triple sec and curacao then? Why do the same distillers make both? A while back this same sort of issue came up about Orgeat vs Falernum last year. Someone was insisting that there was no difference between orgeat and falernum. Beachbum Berry at great personal risk; He trys to avoid Tiki Central because we are too addictive for him here at TC.Recently at the Tiki Ti, Sven laughed when he heard that. "Yeah, I'm late for shoots some mornings because I have to tear myself away from Tiki Central. But to settle this triple sec vs curacao issue maybe you can settle it Jeff?

I'd like to see the Shrunken Head Lounge if I am in Seattle and try your test for myself DJ. Any photos you can post?
Big Tiki Dude, you mentioned going to the Warehouse after Vacation Fest and if it was on a weekend, there is no happy hour on Sat or Sun. Its Mon to Fri 4pm to 6pm.

Life is a state of mind

[ Edited by: ojaitimo 2007-03-08 00:27 ]

Let me be the first to answer the question. Yes, I have tried it. I have a glass short of a full bottle sitting in my fridge. Now I bought it cause I can't get bottles of any of the materials that go into a Mai Tai. Was looking into a website that sold TV mix for $5 and could get a couple but shipping costs were more than the product shipped. I know that I'm going to break down and ship in the good stuff, but back to Chi CHi. I've had great cocktails in the last year but never a good Mai Tai. I really don't have any comparison but that Chi Chi stuff starts out smelling bad. The taste, (it calls for just pour over ice) you can't cover it up. I even tried mixing with OJ to cover the taste and you still can't. I knew from its hot pink/orange color it wasn't high in regards but I was desperate here in the frozen lands. They should sell that bottle with a clothes-pin. But maybe that bottle will be worth something seeing how I may be the only person to buy it.

Ok, I guess its too dangerous for the Bum to come on Tiki Central himself so here is his response regarding Curacao vs Triple Sec.

On 3/8/07, Tim Keenan wrote:
Hi Jeff,

Could you weigh in on this discussion regarding triple sec and curacao on TC?
Thanks Tim

Aloha Ojaitimo,

Yes, triple sec, Cointreau, Curacao and Gran Marnier are all orange-based. That doesn't mean they're interchangable. Sausage, ham, bacon and pork ribs are all pig-based. Do they taste the same? The difference between Curacao, which is distilled from the dried peels of bitter oranges, and triple sec, which is a sweeter orange-flavored product, is pronounced. To take a non-Tiki example: there are hundreds of Margarita recipes, most calling for triple sec and some for Cointreau -- but I've never seen one that substitutes Curacao for triple sec. That should tell us something about subbing triple sec for Curacao in a Trader Vic Mai Tai. In the words of Grandmaster Flash: "Don't do it!" That is, if you want a true, classic Mai Tai. Everyone has different tastes -- so if you happen to prefer triple sec over Curacao, make your Mai Tai with triple sec. Drinking is all about making yourself happy!

Cheers, Bum

My husband won a bottle of premade mix as a door prize and we gave it away. However, it is fun to entertain yourself in the supermarket by comparing ingredients on the bottles of mai tai mix, margarita mix, whiskey sour mix, sweet and sour mix, etc. They're all virtually the same thing with different combinations of food coloring! It kills me that someone out there might buy each different bottle for different cocktails. I picture a roomful of marketing executives dreaming up more ways to sell the same thing to the unsuspecting masses.

On 2007-03-12 11:43, velveteenlounge wrote:
It kills me that someone out there might buy each different bottle for different cocktails. I picture a roomful of marketing executives dreaming up more ways to sell the same thing to the unsuspecting masses.

Much like orange-flavoured liqueurs!

But yes, it really is funny and pathetic -- all these different varieties of artificially coloured and sweetened liquids, all at varying prices. And don't anyone EVEN get me started on that green urine called Roses Lime Juice, that is supposed to pass as real lime juice! I've stored lime juice in bottles before, for quite a long period, as well, and it never tasted anything like the aforementioned swill.

Much like orange-flavoured liqueurs!

But yes, it really is funny and pathetic -- all these different varieties of artificially coloured and sweetened liquids, all at varying prices. And don't anyone EVEN get me started on that green urine called Roses Lime Juice, that is supposed to pass as real lime juice! I've stored lime juice in bottles before, for quite a long period, as well, and it never tasted anything like the aforementioned swill.

Yeah, Rose's is rot gut. Note that Rose's is a sweetened lime juice (for a Gimlet). It is not meant to be straight lime juice. For a better one, check out this:

http://www.stirrings.com/ingredientskeylime.php

And Rose's grenadine is even worse than their Lime Juice.

As far as Mai Tai mixes go, Trader Vic meant for the rum to shine through the mixer (the 17 year old original especially) and not be covered up. So even if someone made a "good" Mai Tai mix, it would still be a non sequitur for me.