Proof that the Macintosh is the superior computer.

I'm just gonna keep bangin' away on my Timex Sinclair 1000.

JohnTiki,

One of the best things about today's Macintosh for the consumer is the bundled software in the iLife suite: iMovie, iPhoto, iDVD, iTunes and Garage Band. If you have a digital camera and/or camcorder or an interest in creating music, they enable you do to pretty amazing stuff with a very small learning curve.

That coupled with the fact that you don't have to worry about spyware and viruses make it a compelling choice these days.

Oh, and I noticed on the Incredibles DVD that Pixar's animators are using Macs now. There's actually a photo of one using a G5 here: http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=19658. Renderman has been ported to OS X as well.

[ Edited by: Hot Lava on 2005-05-07 00:11 ]

[ Edited by: Chip and Andy 2012-05-01 20:27 ]

Chip and Andy,

I would also respond that it depends on what you call a "good" pc vs a "good mac."

For example, someone at work was asking what a good piece of software was on the PC for DVD mastering. He wanted to make DVD's of his home movies of his children. He wanted a program on the PC that would do nice animated opening menus, and author the DVD.

Someone recommended Adobe Encore that costs $350.

I countered that for that price, you could almost get the new MacMini.

The MacMini is just $600 with the SuperDrive (DVDRW, CDRW). And it comes with iLife. So you're able to use iTunes, and iPhoto, and create custom slideshows and burn them to DVD, or import them into iMovie to edit them and your home videos, and then burn them to DVD with iDVD, and compose your own music to accompany them on Garage Band.

The closest thing to all of those programs is the adobe suite of tools, premiere elements and photoshop elements. Those don't include the music portion, but even those programs together you're talking $150.

To do the kinds of things you get out of the box with the MacMini, you're talking about a good deal more money. And it still won't be as elegant and interesting and fun.

Anyway, it all depends on what you want to do. I wanted a creative little tool to manage all the fun parts of my family's life.

I'll leave the spreadsheets to the pc!

PC's must be better because you never get PC users spending their waking hours trying to justify the fact that they have just spent 3 vacations worth of money on a fancy gadget that will be out of date in 6 months.

Trader Woody

On 2005-05-06 12:46, Kava King wrote:
Did rivalries once exist over typewriters/steno machines/etc.? Sorta doubt it.

They still do...

It's getting so that one can't say, "typewriter ribbon" in polite company anymore!

If you want an ultra-geek debate, talk to manual typewriter collectors. You can pick them out of any Pc or Mac crowd by the way they pound the keyboards with the strength of ten Grinches plus two.

Trader Woody --

How firmly is your tongue planted in your cheek on that one?

For the non-"build-it-yourselfer," Macs and PCs have been comparably priced for about 2 years now. And what piece of hardware isn't replaced by an newer model in 6 month's time?

My 2002 Quicksilver Macintosh is still humming along and is just now starting to seem a little pokey when I use one of the new video applications with real-time previews. But for all my web development and graphic design work, it's still more than fast enough. I've yet to see someone want to keep a 3-year old Dell around...

I love my mac because I never have to deal with viruses.

Everything is easy to find, I don't have to dig more than 4 folders deep.(that may just be my personal organizing style)

I also don't have to replace it anytime soon.
Which is unlike my husband who has gone through 2 pcs and 2 laptops in the past 4 years. I've had mine for 5, and will probably have it for at least another 2.

I can have 10 applications open and running simultaniously on any mac system without ever having any problems. Regardless of the specs. To do this on a PC you'd have to spend some serious cash. I'm a major multi-tasker, so this is very important to me.

I will live with a PC at work, but I will never sink to that level at home. My mac makes me happy.

Hug a mac!
Did I mention that I was a member of VMUG?(Victoria Mac Users Group)

aye carumba.

I have always used a Mac at home for the last 15 years. I have always used Windows at work. I buy a faster mac when I can afford one.

They are both strong additions to anyones productivity and they both can provide as much entertainment as you can tolerate.

I know that this thread was started to promote a nifty toy for the Mac but the ensuing struggle for superiority in these threads is just plain silly and REALLY out of date. I thought we all got over this in 1997 or so.

Its a machine. If it accomplishes what you want then it really doesnt matter what anyone else thinks. Sam said it already like 4 times!!!

My grandma watches a 25 year old TV. In her mind it provides exactly what she requires. She gets up to change the channel. It has a single 3 inch speaker in the front. To her a $6000 plasma TV is irrelevant, redundant, ridiculous, and unnecessary.

Likewise, a new vs. old, powerful vs. weak, expensive vs. cheap, mac vs. pc can be evaluated based on if it provides you with what you need and expect from your computer.

There is no winner to this conversation.

Mac guy here from day one. I can use a PC when I need to but could never figure out how to fix things when the menehunes got to playing around under the hood. The Macs seem to make more right brain whereas the PC seem to appeal to the left. I don't get into the battles what works for ya use it I say.
I have just purchased a new G4 powerbook and I love it. However, I am new to Laptops and OS X. So I am still driving on the shoulder of the learning curve.
It would be nice to learn some of the productivity techniques and apps other mac users are using. I still find myself spending way to much time doing simple things like renaming groups of files or processing pics for uploading. If you got any tips..hit me in a new thread so we can let this one rest in peace.
Chongolio

Plain simple, easy to understand terms? Ok, here goes my try:

Software wise, almost every major piece of software for PC is available for Mac. Therefore, doing a task in a software program is almost identical except for Windows uses the Control key and Macs use the Apple key (with the little clover thingy)

Its the operating system that really shines. This is where Macs have it all over Windows. First off, Windows is a knock off of Apple's Macintosh operating system. Gates was sued by Apple when they introduced Windows. That's why your PC has a recycle bin not a trash can, becase Apple has trademark on the trash can. I like most people use a PC at work and a Mac at home. Navigating the operating system is much simpler, more intuitive on a Mac. The OS is more stable (being that it is now Unix based) and simply more mature. By that I mean, for those of us who have been around since Mac OS 6.x, it is obvious that Apple works very hard not to just make their OS nice looking, but actually make it user friendly. Every product Apple makes is designed for a human, meaning simplicity; look at the iPod. I could go on and on about the OS, but believe me; it is far more than just good looking.

Mac computer hardware seems to be pretty stable too. Part of the blessing and the curse of Apple is that it controls, not only its operating system, but also its computer hardware too. That means, you can just go out and put a Mac together like you can a PC (in a Frankenstein way). But in general, Apple tends to adopt new technology quicker and integrate it more smoothly into its computers and operating systems. For that reason, Macs tend to be more up todate under the hood. That is why alot of Macs win in speed tests. The new G5's (as I understand it) are 128bit machines. Meaning that they can process huger chunks of data in one bit than a typical 32bit or 64bit Windows machine.

Alot of the comments have been why "professionals" use Macs. Even though the home user may not be interested in why the Pros use Macs, it should speak volumes. The pros need power, ease and flexibility. I should think that every computer user wants that, no matter what the purpose.

Bottom line, your user experience on a Mac will be much nicer. You will feel that YOU are in control of the computer, rather than the other way around.

Several points:

Graphics professionals tend to use Macs more than PCs simply because the programs they needed to use in the infant days of workstation computers were only available on the Mac, and it's just stayed that way. Legacy systems are very hard to displace due to cost.

Many graphics professionals (and I know a lot of them) just do not really like computers, and the Mac is as good a "turn-key" system as is out there. You plug it in and go - no fuss, no muss. This is VERY appealing to a lot of people (and businesses) who are not interested in getting under the hood and tinkering with their machines. Many businesses using Macs can run with little or no IT support, and that's very financially attractive to small firms, especially ones with low margins like graphic design houses and the like.

Personally, I started on a Mac ('87 to '91) and switched to PC for the 3D software I use. Windows in those "dark years" was atrocious. Yes, MS copied Apple and it took years to achieve in design and stability what Apple had already done. But the chief advantage of the PC is configurability. Macs are pretty much plug-n-play, but PCs, because the hardware is an open standard, are almost infinitely configurable in every aspect. That alone is why I prefer the PC. But Macs sure are pretty, industrial design-wise.

Incidentally, no game development studio I have worked at or known of uses Macs, unless they are porting games for the Mac. And even studios I know that use Macs for workstations often use Windows servers for networking.

So there's really no contest - they are two different macines for differing tastes and abilities and needs. But have you ever seen Mac case mods like these:

Not to get off topic... but, is anyone else having trouble downloading the Dashboard Hula Girl?

I've tried a few times this morning, but I keep getting a "timed out" message. Maybe there are just too many poeple trying to download it right now?

If someone has the original file downloaded, could you please e-mail it to me?

Thanks!!

P.S. Nevermind... got it. Wheeeeeeeeee!

[ Edited by: MachTiki on 2005-05-12 13:38 ]

This is a cute little mac mod prototype:

More pics here

There are a lot of great concepts that were originated with the Mac, but the windows interface was not one of em; Apple stole that straight from Xerox PARC. MS copied the copy of something dreamed up at a copier company!

-Randy

On 2005-05-05 16:25, BarkerBird wrote:
Either that, or Mac users are superior.

Howzabout THIS for a new feature of the new version of the Mac operating system:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/dashboard/hulagirl.html

heheheh!

Sorry, but as a Mac user I would like to get back to the topic about dashboard. When I was downloading new widgets for dashboard, I came across one that has the latest posts on a Reef Sanctuary forum. I thought what a great idea for the Tiki Central forum posts, if we (mac users) could access them on our desktops. Apple give instructions on how to create Widgets, but I'm still tryng to learn how to make one. Would this interest anyone?
Here is the link that describes the other forum.
http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/blogs_forums/reefsanctuary.html

Thank for the intrusion...now you can get back to Mac vs. PC.

Tiki2Beach,
Excellent idea!

aquarj,
Yes that is true. Apple stole the idea from Zerox, whos executives didn't see the use a graphic user interface.....umm...yeah.

But what Apple has done with the concept is amazing. And yes, Windows is a direct copy of the Macintosh operating system-or was.

I just ran across this on the Mac dashboard widgets page

Tiki Battleship Game!

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/games/lifewavesacetikibattleships.html

If anyone ever figures out how to make their own widgets, may I suggest a Tiki Central widget?

I, too, would like a TC widget...
newest threads in a particular forum would be super cool..

Maybe Ooga Mooga too- a featured mug o' the week??

I've looked into what it would take to make a Widget, and what we need from the TC site is an RSS feed. It's been brought up on a TC feature wish list before.

Once that gets turned on, the Widget is a snap to make.

Going on here, too:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=12742&forum=6&start=15&22

I thought a widget was one of those things in the bottom of a beer can to give good head.
About time Apple ( there we go again!) thought up some names of there own and left the food and drinks industry alone :)

I've been a long time on-and-off mac user since the late 80s, and I have mac that I'm using right this instant to write this reply with. I'm even in the process of releasing my video game Rocknor's Donut Factory for the Mac OS.

But I must say:

The mouse drives me BATTY! I've tried every different mouse speed/setting to get it to work for me, but I simply can't get used to it. When I move the mouse quickly it's fine, but when I try to move the mouse slowly, the pointer goes waaaaaay too slow.

Yeah, I'm looking into an RSS feed ... once we have an RSS feed for Tiki Central, a lot is possible. :)

Hey Hanford, you can adjust the mouse speed in the System Preferences Folder. There is a preference folder for your keyboard/mouse. Hopefully that may help. I had the same problem until I adjusted the speed.

I'm in here for a sec doing a quick search for Tiki Light Switches (need a double design) and I end up in this thread.

This photo (are you sick of it yet? I am!) has two things I love:

Tikis and my Mac G4!

And like Tikiwahine said, don't even TRY to change the mind of a Mac lover...it's pointless!

p.s. I'm going to have to check out DASHBOARD when I have more time! Some cool options available...

On 2005-05-08 13:41, Trader Woody wrote:
PC's must be better because you never get PC users spending their waking hours trying to justify the fact that they have just spent 3 vacations worth of money on a fancy gadget that will be out of date in 6 months.

Trader Woody

Sorry Trader, but as has been noted before, you can easily get a PC that costs as much as a Mac, and you can now get Macs that cost as little as a PC. No justification needed...
Plus, it depends on where you go on vacation :wink:
As for the out-of-date in 6 months, you really have to be kidding, right?
Just like PCs become obsolete when newer, more powerful chips come out or new operating systems become the norm, all machines get obsolete. Try running Windows NT on a 486. Same issues as running OSX Tiger on a Mac SE30.
I am a graphics professional, digital asset manager and systems administrator (for both Macs and PCs) and I currently use a 5 year-old Mac Pismo PowerBook at home and am very happy. Unmodified (other than a larger hard drive), it runs all the software I need for what I do as well as the newest operating system. Well worth the money I paid for it back in the day, and according to what used ones are going for on eBay, it still holds better value than a 2000-era PC laptop...

On 2005-09-20 21:07, Exoticat wrote:
This photo (are you sick of it yet? I am!) has two things I love:

Tikis and my Mac G4!

Gotta move up to the G5, Exoticat!!!!

(OK - I'm full of it, I still have my old G4 at home, but I'm spoiled at work! Well, with computers & software anyway...)

On 2005-09-21 08:50, JonPez wrote:

I am a graphics professional, digital asset manager and systems administrator (for both Macs and PCs) and I currently use a 5 year-old Mac Pismo PowerBook at home and am very happy. Unmodified (other than a larger hard drive), it runs all the software I need for what I do as well as the newest operating system. Well worth the money I paid for it back in the day, and according to what used ones are going for on eBay, it still holds better value than a 2000-era PC laptop...

I also have a 5+ year old Mac G3 (yes "3"). I am running 10.3 on it, and it does everything I need it to do just fine!

Yeah, a few of my pro audio apps are a little sluggish, but that's my only gripe. Not bad for a machine I paid $1500 for in 2000.

Sometimes I think about getting a dual 2GHz G5... but then I'd have to replace my scanner, my MIDI interface, my pro audio interface, and swap my ZIP disks for some sort of flash RAM cards - and for what? - it all still works!

I know - I'm dreading putting 10.4 on my G4 (I'm still running OS 9 on it) - as I'm sure my scanner will not work under OSX....

Bah.

Tangaroa my ancient Umax scanner stopped working when I did the OSX upgrade on my G4, so now I do any scanning at work. I didn't really use it all that much anyhow, and besides, there are some really nice scanners out there right now(clear ones that scan from the top down by HP for example)

It was well worth the upgrade though. In addition to having a hula gal, kane, homer or jesus on my desktop ready at all times, I'm very happy with the functionality of os 10.

Yeah, my UMAX scanner stopped working too. Oh well, I got it for $39.99 at Fry's back when OS9 was new. They don't support OSX drivers on their web site, so its a door stop. My G3 was old and slow so I went whole hog and upgraded to a Dual G5. But hey, the upgrade was well worth it, for me. OSX is a major step up

If you have a "dead" scanner, give VueScan a try (http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html)... Lots of supported drivers for all kinds of scanners. Pretty much universal, and it gets updated all the time. Unless, of course, you have a SCSI scanner, then you are pretty much S.O.L. on OSX. I don't think there are any supported SCSI cards that work well under Panther or Tiger.
When I first went to OSX, I just put in a second "slave" HD, formatted it with the OS9 drivers and installed OSX on it. Bingo. Dual boot Mac. In the beginning, I worked in OSX until I couldn't do something the way I was used to, then restarted back into 9. My old machine was there, unchanged. After a while, I didn't ever need to reboot into 9 again. Most older G3's and G4's (up to QuickSilver, I believe) can be dual boot. Not much of an investment to get started.
I have my old Blue & White G3 as a legacy station, with my SCSI scanner, ZIP, Jaz and old CD/DVD burner. Comes in very handy. I can scan stuff on that machine without taking up the processes on my laptop. Networks perfect.

On 2005-10-19 08:13, JonPez wrote:
If you have a "dead" scanner, give VueScan a try (http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html)... Lots of supported drivers for all kinds of scanners. Pretty much universal, and it gets updated all the time. Unless, of course, you have a SCSI scanner, then you are pretty much S.O.L. on OSX. I don't think there are any supported SCSI cards that work well under Panther or Tiger.

VueScan does work pretty good, but the OSX/SCSI/SOL bit is
not true!

I have a SCSI card in my trusty old G3 (running OS 10.3), with a Microtek Scanmaker X6el hooked up to it, and VueScan makes it work just fine.
Remember though - with old, old, old-skool SCSI stuff, you have to reboot after turning the SCSI devices on, or the OS won't see them.

VueScan is OK, but there's an app I like better called SilverFast. I might switch to that.

On 2005-10-19 08:13, JonPez wrote:
When I first went to OSX, I just put in a second "slave" HD, formatted it with the OS9 drivers and installed OSX on it. Bingo. Dual boot Mac. In the beginning, I worked in OSX until I couldn't do something the way I was used to, then restarted back into 9. My old machine was there, unchanged. After a while, I didn't ever need to reboot into 9 again.

I did the exact same thing, and had the same results. I still have the OS9 drive, but I almost never boot from it, or even launch OS9 from within OSX at all.

There are going to be instances where a specific SCSI card may be supported by the built-in drivers in the OS and the proper software may actually read them. That is great that you have that combo. Scanners work better with this than hard drives and some other peripherals.
Most newer machines will have some issues with the operation of SCSI devices using older cards. I'm still waiting on Apple to add complete support for SCSI and the card manufacturers to follow suit, but some third-parties are making this functionality easier. We are using a few older machines to run Retrospect backups in OS9 to a SCSI tape drive. Won't work in OSX and we can't drop the coin for a FireWire tape drive.
The good news is most devices are now USB or FireWire and many are much cheaper than they were in the olden days (except Tape Drives, of course). I just happen to be burdened with a big stack of SCSI devices I can't bear to throw out and replace. Not that I'm going to use those 44mb SyQuests very much anyway, but in case I need 'em...

Any G4 Cube users out there? I love the design of the cube so I grabbed one right before they were discontinued (they only were sold for a year). When it came out it was the fastest PC around. It's still mighty fast for a 5 year old computer, but I can upgrade it to faster G4 processors if I feel the need (I haven't yet). And it's almost totally silent as it has no cooling fan.

Dean, your computer set up at home cracks me up!

For those of you who haven't seen the House oF Jab, it's on a shelf in his linen closet!

JohnPez - once again we have a paralell - my 44 meg SyQuest drive, which I paid $800 for in 1992 (it's rack-mountable so I could take it on tour for use with my 'also then-new' Emax sampler) is still in the 'can't bear to put it on the trash heap' zone... But hey, it still works...

Thanks for the VuScan link! I'll lgive it a try!

And the number one reason Apple is a superior computer: it runs Unix!

On 2005-10-19 08:13, JonPez wrote:
Unless, of course, you have a SCSI scanner, then you are pretty much S.O.L. on OSX. I don't think there are any supported SCSI cards that work well under Panther or Tiger.

Crapola.

So - rather than go into more debt, buying a G5 - I've decided to update my G4 to OSX Tiger. Currently the G4 is running OS 9.2, has 576 megs built-in memory, a mouse that is on the fritz (i.e "snapping" all over the screen), an a Epson ES-1200C 8.5 x 11" scanner & external CD drive/burner - both connected by SCSI.

Once I upgrade to OSX, am I gonna have to purchase another external burner & scanner?

Any thoughts out there would be greatly appreciated!

On 2005-10-20 11:46, Tangaroa wrote:

Once I upgrade to OSX, am I gonna have to purchase another external burner & scanner?

Any thoughts out there would be greatly appreciated!

I would visit the web sites of the manufacturers of your scanner and burner to check your devices compatibility with OSX. You may need to doanload new software after you upgrade.

You should uprage your RAM, preferably to 1GB or greater.

You may have to upgrade your non-Apple software, or run your old programs in system 9. If you plan on doing this you must upgrade system 9 to the most recent version before installing OSX.

If your hardware is not compatible, one way of looking at it is that you can get much more hardware for less money these days.

... once you run tiger, you'll need all the ram you can get...

... once you run cs2, you'll need all the ram you can get...

... same with da & dv apps... boost your ram to the nines...

... every incarnation of the mac presents the assorted and sundry hoops to jump through...

... dump all the bundled software and strip the box to the bare nuts and run 'em lean...

... with the new dual core processors you can install 4tb of ram... install all you can afford...

... in the end, with the mac, you really have to time your cpu purchases, typically every four to five years if timed right... you'll be upgrading your peripherals as well...

On 2005-10-20 11:46, Tangaroa wrote:

On 2005-10-19 08:13, JonPez wrote:
So - rather than go into more debt, buying a G5 - I've decided to update my G4 to OSX Tiger. Currently the G4 is running OS 9.2, has 576 megs built-in memory, a mouse that is on the fritz (i.e "snapping" all over the screen), an a Epson ES-1200C 8.5 x 11" scanner & external CD drive/burner - both connected by SCSI.
Once I upgrade to OSX, am I gonna have to purchase another external burner & scanner?

You can get a SCSI port on a PCI card for under $100.

That should run your scanner and burner.

I have a HD and a scanner on my SCSI card - works fine. Since you're on an even newer computer than me, I don't see that you'll have problems.

You may need new OSX compliant drivers for the scanner and burner.

Then get some more RAM, as suggested above.

I am running Panther on a G3 with 'only' 376 meg of RAM, and as stated above, no problems except for my pro audio apps being sluggish.

That said, I am hestiant to upgrade to Tiger for fear of slowing down even more...

Jesus - I run CS2, also buncha stuff that takes a lot of RAM.

So - what is a PCI card? Is it something that "translates" the SCSI info for OSX?

Also - if I filled both my slots with RAM (so to speak) a long time ago, do I just dump those & get new (larger) RAM to take it's place?

Acccck - seems easier to buy a new one, but I just can't afford that right now....

On 2005-10-20 16:18, Tangaroa wrote:

... seems easier to buy a new one...

... hell, you only go around once, cornflake... so... here's your new rig...

2.5ghz quad-core powerpc g5
8gb sdram, but shoot for the 4tb - mo betta
250GB serial ata - 7200rpm - replace with 10000rpm drive
quadro fx 4500 512mb sdram
3 pci slots - load 'em with the best only and when needed
16x superdrive dl (dvd+r dl/dvd±rw/cd-rw)

... pick your peripherals (but make 'em good - in this case, more is not better)...

... all this stripped to the raw... dump the bundles... load only the core software and rock on for the next five years... nows the time...

... of course, you'll need something similar for the kids...

On 2005-10-20 16:18, Tangaroa wrote:
Jwhat is a PCI card?

There are three slots inside your computer that look like the slots that you plug RAM into, only they're much bigger.

They're called PCI slots.

You can put all sorts of cards (they look like circuit boards, or like much, much bigger RAM memory chips) into these slots to expand your computer's functionality.

You can get video cards, audio cards, SCSI cards, graphics cards, lots of other stuff. They were called NuBus cards on the ancient Macs, and in the very newest Macs they've gone to a newer system called PCI-X. If you have a G3/G4/older G5, you need PCI, not PCI-X.

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - Fixed BBcode - 2005-10-20 17:50 ]

Tangaroa - I don't think you need a PCI SCSI card as it sounds like you already have a SCSI interface on your G4 for your scanner and burner. The 1GB RAM will run about $100 to $150 depending on your model. That's way cheaper then buying new.

If you know the clock speed of your G4 you can look online and find out how many slots for RAM you have and figure out what chips you'll need. It's better for future needs to buy the largest memory you can afford and toss the smallest ones, meaning it's better to buy one 1G chip to replace one of your current chips (the smaller one) then it is to buy 2 512M chips and replace 2 of your current chips.

I say if you're fairly happy with the speed of your G4 now, don't buy a new computer just to run OSX. I have OSX Tiger on my G4 Cube with only 512M of RAM and it runs fine. I can't run multiple programs or Photoshop-size programs until I upgrade my RAM but I can run iTunes, iPhoto, Entourage, Word, and Firefox no problem.