The Artist : Why sometimes they are A**holes?

Ha, that article is FULL of great quotes!

Some remind me of someone's work here :D :

".... a higher flow of information from the thalamus."

" It's like looking at a shattered mirror."

"When you suspend disbelief you are prepared to believe anything..."

...but what do I know!

Sorry, But I think music artists are bigger assholes than art artists.

TV sets out of windows, East Coast vs West Coast killings, 80's hair bands, 70's punk bands, Golden Gods etc....

It's not even close.

On 2010-06-15 16:30, WJHScrimshaw wrote:
I was just reading the full length of this discussion...
and came across the "Big Toe."

Is this guy called this because he likes to step on people?

• his quote
  "...hell even the lowest form of artists, carvers."

OK, what is a Tiki? ----->> A carving.

So what is BigToe doing here is he considers Tikis to be the lowest form of art?

Anyone out there named "BigShoe?""BigToe" needs one up his.
(for punching kids) - I was punched as a kid, and a coward like BigToe deserves the BigShoe.

I bet you anything he attempted to carve a Tiki and failed at it, (no 3D ability) that's why he is so down on carvers.

Attention Newby:

That's right, "Mr. Scrimsaw" (if that really IS your name), my name is "BigToe" precisely because i like to step on little people...I am a cruel tiki-carver bashing coward...and ur next for my malevolent BIG SHOE!

But i would never punch a kid tho...that was a midget. or possibly a hobgoblin.

that said, u may be right about the failed tiki carving ability...the tiki that was supposed to have been my most glorious accomplishment, "Suck It Bowana", has languished on a shelf while i fritter away the hours on painting tawdry women (the pursuit of which being the real reason we all paint, truth be told).

But i think this may be a case of the POT calling the KETTLE black "Mr. Scrimsaw" (if that really is your name). after all, scrimshaw is the practice of carving the teeth of murdered whales, isnt it "Mr. Scrimshaw". isnt it true that these gentle giants have been slaughtered to near extinction just so u can carve some fetishistic baubles to sell to the tourists for your own selfish greedy gains!!

shame, "Mr. Scrimsaw", SHAME!

and for future reference, spend some time on a site for a few days before recklessly lashing out at people and looking like a kook.

MISTER BIGBOOT

Don't believe the Toe.......
That was a Kid in a Hobgoblin suit
I saw him punch!

Great Thread Zeta!
Gets all us artists a'thinkin!

And next up for the big boot is loveable ol' BigBroTiki for calling us all gutter pups...even tho it is most likely tru.

Was it Oscar Wilde that said "we are ALL in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"??

And Zeta:

On 2010-06-16 06:07, Zeta wrote:
They have strong opinions about everything. Many times, contradicting opinions...
They are intense.
They have no discipline.
They are disperse.
They wake up after noon.
They drink hard liquor.
They live in lofts.
...

you forgot:

They smell bad.
They are dodgy.
They associate with tawdry women of casual moral proclivities.
They borrow money with no intention of paying it back.
They wear brightly colored socks.
They have little girlish hands.
and most suspect of all:
They listen to Jazz.

and that kid had it coming...he was slurping his pasta.

you forgot...

they punch kids!

never once have I thought of artists having the corner on Asshole-ery. I thought it was mostly confined to Florida Drivers and News Network pundits.

but really, I respect artists, crazy or not. My hubby and I could be considered arts or artisans depending on who's asking, but the drive and fortitude it takes to put yourself out there in a creative way is a trait I find fascinating and something to admire. I would rather hang out with a crazy creative person than a boring dull one any day. Either you appreciate the richness of personality or you don't.

oh and mr scrimshaw. like it or not I think you are an artist. Your work was amazing. I'll call you an artisan if you like it better, but your work totally blew me away.

Driving the point home

for those in need of visual stimulation.

:)

here's another kid i had to punch. JOey was sugared up and bothering me for an autograph...with those sticky little fingers.

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:07 ]

The problem with the whole tortured artist myth is that it leads to so much posing by hope-to-be-greats. Admittedly without such posing we'd never have had the likes of Morrisey but on the other hand we'd also have never have had Michael Stipe.

"freddom of speech"
NOW!

Of course,not ALL artists have mental problems
but it sure helps things move along!

It's well known that 60% of the GENERAL population
has SOME form of schizophrenia
(mild,but still detectable)
so why not artists?

Living in a Modern Society
with all the stresses and strains
weighs heavily on NORMAL folks
imagine what it does to an individual
with ultra-hyper sensitivities?
Add to that
a drive to create
and STILL function in a society
and i would have to say that
mental aberrations would probably
appear more in creative types/artists
more than most...

An artist HAS a responsibility to his time period/culture/world
to observe and report back and to invoke thought/emotion/action
thru their work..... That is one tall order!
and not many artists are up to that challenge
preferring to ride their personality
more than their talent..
I guess most "artists" should be classified "creative types" or "craftsmen"
even tho they are categorized all together...
Even tho MOST craftspeople create beautiful works of "art"
it's mainly just an outlet
something to work out
and then get back to their normal lives
whereas artists don't have that safety net...
they're STUCK!

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:08 ]

Which is probably why the Toe punches kids...
Can you blame him?

when I am not being a fabulous tiki fashion model I am also a mommy and playground frequenter...and really, there are some kids out there that need a good punch in the face.

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:09 ]

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:08 ]

Good points there scrim!
but i politely beg to differ/show the flipside on some of these comments

Cave painters, France 60,000 -80,000 BC - were not outcasts of society, they were the center of society.

Really? I guess Food and Shelter weren't that much of a big deal,eh?
There's a popular theory that the cave paintings (transferring thoughts into a solid physical representation) was caused by the long period of time in a cave with lack of lighting-sort of a sensory-deprived hallucinatory state that caused the cave-dweller to see images on a wall (concentric circles-moire patterns/animals he has hunted) He was merely drawing what he saw in his mind-it was after that the connection was made between a pictorial representation and a physical object-which is why they would symbolically "attack" the image with their spear heads....
That said-ABSTRACT thought and Artistic thought developed along the same time.
You place TOO much emphasis on this
We tend to believe that the ritual was the mos important and the shaman or seer was the "center" of their society..
I'm not convinced..
yet....

the Venus of Willendorf and other sculptures show the prominence of CREATION -as seen thru childbirth..... Early man probably treasured food/shelter/and reproduction kind of an early hierarchy of Needs (a la Maslow).

Most of the examples are craftsmen
Even an artist was a craftsman back then
Respecting their talent and learning all they could about it
and everything else....
Creativity and Curiosity are not exclusive to "artists"

These days since computers do everything, societal architects like to divert all creative minds into a pool of loser parasites who all need meds. Artists have been trivialized into nothing more than homeless, starving weirdo's.

Again. not true....
there are always examples of sellouts/turncoats who define success by money and fame-but is that the TRUE artist?
Artists are trivialized because there are so many of them
and so many of them have no business in the business
they jumped on the bandwagon for self-glorification
and since the arts are pretty open and forgiving to oddball approaches
it's hard to invalidate ANYTHING as art....
Warhol had a big hand in that mixing of pop-culture and fine art
he blurred it and the floodgates opened....
Now everyone considers themselves an artist of sorts
and the dilution of the arts begins....

Before WW2 artists were never seen in this sick negative light associated with mental illness-
something the Reich imposed on any non-conformist.

Just think, if Hitler was welcomed as a student and sold lots of work, 11 million lives may have been spared? His feelings about art changed everything associated with art.

THE ARTIST AS
Visionary
Sensitive Prophet
and madman
was actually formed during the Romantic Period

Here's a quote from Wikipedia
"In part, it was a revolt against aristocratic social and political norms of the Age of Enlightenment and a reaction against the scientific rationalization of nature, and was embodied most strongly in the visual arts, music, and literature, but had a major impact on historiography, education and natural history.

The movement validated strong emotion as an authentic source of aesthetic experience, placing new emphasis on such emotions as trepidation, horror and terror and awe—especially that which is experienced in confronting the sublimity of untamed nature and its picturesque qualities, both new aesthetic categories. It elevated folk art and ancient custom to something noble, made of spontaneity a desirable character (as in the musical impromptu), and argued for a "natural" epistemology of human activities as conditioned by nature in the form of language and customary usage."

This is where Goethe and many others began the artist as tortured genius theory...

The Symbolism movement took it even further
relating intense scenes/situations from outside myths and inner-reflections...

Hitler could have been a frustrated mail carrier and still have accomplished all the horror and death he is famous for...

Hitler was an A-hole and a frustrated artist...
ONE example...

Our last president was a businessman.an oilman
without an artistic bone in his body
and look at all the death and misery he brought
not only to his own country
but other ones as well....

You should read that previous article again... It merely explains the close similiarity between schizophrenia and creative thinking
Everything is connected
but it all doesn't affect everything at once....

I agree in that our modern society probably nurtures this instability....

Now, what were we talking about?

oh yeah... kid-punching!

[ Edited by: little lost tiki 2010-06-16 11:43 ]

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:09 ]

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:10 ]

I like turtles.

On 2010-06-16 11:40, little lost tiki wrote:
Artists are trivialized because there are so many of them
and so many of them have no business in the business
they jumped on the bandwagon for self-glorification
and since the arts are pretty open and forgiving to oddball approaches
it's hard to invalidate ANYTHING as art....

Sadly so true. And do not even think about calling that out on TC, now, where it's ALL good! This has really taken off with the internet: WHO is supposed to read all those blogs, look at all those pictures, --everybody is too busy ...with their own form of self-expression! :)

Often it is not self-glorifiaction, but the honest desire to do art -- without having the talent. And the lack of ability to take a good cold hard look at one's stuff and say "I suck at this".

I applaud Scrimshaw for not wanting to take on the moniker of artist (NOT implying his stuff sucks!)

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:10 ]

Beautiful work scrimshaw!
Don't know why you hide behind the Craftsman monicker
your work speaks to the viewer and the mermaid definitely hints of a narrative....

Well said
both you and Sven!
especially about the loving what you do and how it shows....
and if do anything long enough and with enough love
good things will come out of it.

Labeling artists and diagnosing them helps nothing.
The stereotype is disturbing and doesn't describe me at all.

i beg to differ on this
diagnosing/categorizing/investigating/and learning about these maladies
may help us to be able to take out the bad parts of the psyche
(but referring back to the original question)
which may be the actual thing that creates this personality type...

example: Without his deep dark depression
Churchill couldn't of accomplished
what destiny had laid out for him...

Could Kafka had written the way he writes
without a horrible physical self-image hangup and other phobias?

Objective- "Craftsman- carve me a boat that can cross the great sea, embellish it with symbols of our culture carved deep, construct it of the finest, strongest trees.

Subjective- "Wow man...like I want to do some acid and explore the deconstructionism of totalitarian politics while redefining artist materials in an anti-art demonstration of retro anti-societal expression...dude...."

can't say the above isn't too one-sided of a comparison...

BUT
if you think of it
we BOTH mark THINGS on SURFACES
plain and simple

Objective view/Craftsman embellishes functional items,for whatever purpose (to communicate cultural recognition/ask for godly assistance/clan markings/foe intimidation)

Subjective View/Artist embellishes useless surfaces with markings that can communicate anything from a simple sunset or the bond of a mother and child all the way to social agitation or questioning the status quo
to capturing unnamed feelings...

Physical Spirit
Profane Sacred
Function Meaning

looks like you can't have one without the other...

tell that to those a-hole "real artists" who didn't respect your amazing work....

man! all this typin is makin me dizzy!

You're gonna find such a range of talent and creativity and art and craft and ingenuity on this forum,scrimshaw!

and seriously, the Toe don't punch no kids...

unless they deserved it!
:)

Recap
Many good points made.
Some children need punching.
BigToe is not "Bigfoot" but in fact a real nice guy, looks a bit like a casual Dean Martin & has a real day job.
Kinny can at times,make sense,which still does not make up for a lack of social skills,but he also has a real day job.
Anybody can be an Artist,but not everybody can create art.
Just because you read it on the internet does not make it true.
There are a lot of Assholes in the world.
Some children need punching!

Not a real site there yet, someone snagged the domain name....
http://punchababy.com/

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:03 ]

I was one of those kids who said I was going to grow up to be an artist.

i'd just like to say one little thing about "big toe"... (pun intended) although we've never met in person we've shared a lot of walls in a bunch of shows (something about our color palette?? or our general weirdness??) heck, we even got to share a page in mad magazine! as an artist i've suffered quite a bit of unfair criticism because of shortsighted folks writing me off as a "grafitti artist" because of my chosen medium... (i'll admit spraypaint may seem an odd choice [especially for tiki] but it's my choice and it's what i know best!) toe has been incredibly supportive on this and other interwebnet thingamabobs, he's shown kindness where others have not, he's offered to let me share common space at oasis, and he's always raising the bar for himself and others as an artist... please, don't make assumptions about one's character based on a moniker or a thread when you don't know the person or the artist.

...not that he needs my defense but i consider him a friend and i find it a bit offensive... um.. now, if you're just having a friendly "nudge, nudge, wink-wink" wwith the guy (kinda like LLT) disregard what i've said altogether... he's a mean, ugly, jerk!

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:11 ]

On 2010-06-15 16:30, WJHScrimshaw wrote:
I was just reading the full length of this discussion...
and came across the "Big Toe."

Is this guy called this because he likes to step on people?

• his quote
  "...hell even the lowest form of artists, carvers."

OK, what is a Tiki? ----->> A carving.

So what is BigToe doing here is he considers Tikis to be the lowest form of art?

Anyone out there named "BigShoe?""BigToe" needs one up his.
(for punching kids) - I was punched as a kid, and a coward like BigToe deserves the BigShoe.

I bet you anything he attempted to carve a Tiki and failed at it, (no 3D ability) that's why he is so down on carvers.

WJHScrimshaw,I was reading threw the thread to see just what set you off on BigToe,What I see are clear instances of levity,obvious ones
which is not always the case here,but in this case yes,obvious ones!

Be it known that those posts are just some joking about, off color maybe,but just joking,nothing else.
Since they were not referring to you in anyway,it is a mystery to me why you took such great offense?

Also I could not help but notice that all your posts are about "You" TMI WJHScrimshaw.
You are trying to hard, Have a Mai Tai,relax a bit and get to know the crowd here, there is a bit of craziness,but thats part of what we like
about TikiCentral.

On an unrelated note, are there any "Artist" that are registered republicans? anyone?
Some Children need to be Punched! it is a fact!

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2010-06-16 18:24 ]

Off to make more work...

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:12 ]

So much to wade threw scrimshaw, hit the topics that are of interest to you,checkout the artist threads to see what a talented gorup of assholes we have here,but remember! don't throw stones,then expect people to hear your very valid points,after the fact.
just my two cents.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2010-06-16 18:58 ]

In respect to the tiki carvers...where it all started, check this one out:

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:03 ]

About me? like a silly green puppet from a funky space opera once said "Don't talk, Do!"
I leave the rest of my verbage to silly stuff & small talk about all things Tiki.

Or was that "Don't try,Do!"
BigToe was only Joking as he is very good friends with many of the "Bigtime" carvers here.

That is a sharp looking carve you got going on.

On 2010-06-16 19:00, WJHScrimshaw wrote:
In respect to the tiki carvers...where it all started, check this one out:

Wow, a very Barney Westish Tiki, who is that?

Found it on google while searching tiki pics.

Don't know...but you'll find it there if you search the same way.

Some more nice ones:

Well, the humor here sometimes DOES get a little esoteric here, so no wonder someone on his first day doesn't get the joke. Internet humor is hard to tell in general, that is why I always employ those stupid, often redundant smilies -because more often it is better to make sure that readers understand that something was said with a smiling attitude.

This kind of incestuous gay bar roughing up that those South Call artists practice is not easily apparent to outsiders. :D

There, like that!

They love to wear black.
(supposedly, the printer's guild traditionally dress in black because of the ink stains.)

On 2010-06-16 19:00, WJHScrimshaw wrote:
In respect to the tiki carvers...where it all started, check this one out:

On second look, that looks like young Benzart, doesn't it!
I think this thread is gettin' thoroughly derailed now. Scrimshaw, please let us see more of your doodling in your own Gallery thread in Tiki Gallery! That would be a good place to continue to talk shop.

are tikis made by artists?

[ Edited by: WJHScrimshaw 2010-06-16 19:36 ]

On 2010-06-16 19:23, Zeta wrote:
They love to wear black.
(supposedly, the printer's guild traditionally dress in black because of the ink stains.)

Sorry Zeta, didn't mean to condemn your valiant attempt to keep your hit thread on track onto the previous page! :)

Maybe that is why I love California: Even the artiest types are not that stupid to wear black here. I was so tired of that in Germany.

not cool WJHScrimshaw.
Now the thread is incomplet.

On 2010-06-15 09:59, bigbrotiki wrote:

Especially since I cannot think of one artist example in our Tiki community that fits that description. Even famous Josh Agle has remained the nicest human being there can be.

there's where you are wrong.......i've always been an asshole.....and i make tiki art......

Yes, Sven has spoketh the truth....
For example

:lol: Frak you, you Fracking, Frack head! just Frack off!......FRACK! :lol:

see joking! and knowing is half the battle!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :o :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now I need a Mai Tai! :o