Better outdoor lighting?

I have a 12v lighting system in the Narrow Escape, using mostly cheap Malibu fixtures. I've bought a lot of the colored bulbs from the hardware stores, but the colors fade and they burn out fairly quickly. Has anyone found a longer lasting bulb, or a better approach to low-voltage lighting?

12v MR16 LEDs. The colors are extremely vivid, they don't fade, they're efficient, and they last a very long time.

Superbrightleds.com sells a bunch. The best ones are the 1 and 3 watt Luxeons. They sell T5 wedge base LEDs as well.

Not all outdoor low voltage fixtures have enough clearance for these LEDs so buy a few samples before splurging or maybe buy new fixtures.

On 2010-10-12 23:52, Hakalugi wrote:
12v MR16 LEDs. The colors are extremely vivid, they don't fade, they're efficient, and they last a very long time.

Ya, LED's are changing the entire lighting market landscape.

I bet Thomas Edison would orgasm if he saw them.
(ya, have another drink unga)

Sweet, thanks!

These are more like what I need:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Fmalibu.htm%23replace

They aren't much more expensive than the incandescents, and efficient enough I could leave them on all night!

And, AND! They have a UV-blacklight color!!

"Did you know that bamboo sales were up 400% for the year ending 1963? If these trends continue... AAY!"

Custom Furniture and Cabinets

[ Edited by: bamboo stu 2010-10-13 07:02 ]

I happened upon a few old red tail light lenses, placed them over the existing white lights and the effect is really nice.

I think it works best when you really can't see the light but it's a decent, low $$ solution... especially if y'like red.

If you look for bulbs that are 130 volt not 120 volt that is the norm,
these are the long life bulbs.
By having the lower than rated voltage the bulb will last longer.
You can do this with a dimmer as well, dimming any light will make it last longer.
You must have good venting for your lights as well if they get too hot this will
kill em soon too.
here is a good site to buy light bulbs.
Good luck!!!
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/IncanColor/25ACO

I am not sure what fading implies but, I use Ecobulbs (the curly Q kind). They are set to go on at dusk and off if the sun EVER FREAKIN COMES OUT....sorry! :blush:
I get them at HomeCrapo for $5 a pop. And they don't blow out.

I have red one in the moai & orange behind. I think I should put a blue or green one behind.

grab some old netting from where ever and wrap the globes. I have a red one also.

That type of bulb burns not as hot as other bulbs as well.
This is part of the reason they last longer too.

Agreed re: the LED bulbs at that website. You can get color-changing ones, which can be good if used in just the right spot; these are good on actively-moving water, like a down-light on a really sparkly fountain spray. The dark blue LEDs make green plants look lush and mysterious.

The UV ones could be used as up-lights or down-lights on items with UV paint, and you can make glowy fountains and waterfalls, too. To get neon green, like poison, pull the ink-soaked felt cartridge out of a hi-liter marker with a screwdriver and wring it out repeatedly in a bucket of water. Beware that this will stain porous surfaces brown with time, and any water added in the future will get some dye in it. A subtler effect with less in-your-face glow is blue; buy big bottles of cheap tonic water, let 'em go flat (the bubbles will slow down a pump) and dump it in. Looks clear and ordinary by day; turn on the UV light and you get a subtle icy-blue glow. The quinine sulphate that makes tonic water "tonic" is fluorescent.

Notice that the LEDs on these bulbs point outward in a circle; these are good for tier lights with illuminated casings, like Malibu path lights. If you're using mushroom-type path lights where there's a hood or pagoda roof with a white, reflective underside on top, or if you're using a spot/flood, gently bend the LEDs until they all point generally forward; leave them splayed out slightly in a narrow cone unless you really want a concentrated spot of light from a direct-aimed fixture or are trying to send a narrow wash along a surface.

I find that the hood-type deck lights (semi-circular hood, surface mount) are great for mounting to flat surfaces, anywhere, as up- or down-lights. They can be painted to blend in, or can be mounted up under permanently-fixed benches or under overhangs. Don't buy 'em for $12 a pop at the hardware store; I bought a box lot BIN on eBay for cheap.
http://cgi.ebay.com/20-MALIBU-ROUND-SURFACE-MOUNT-LANDSCAPE-DECK-LIGHTS-/350330646036?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5191556e14
There's 20 fixtures for $35 plus shipping; I bought one of these. They don't come with instructions, but you shouldn't need 'em. They're not individually boxed, either, each is in a bubble wrap bag with its two screws and there's a bag of bulbs.

Craigslist is a good place to look for used outdoor light sets and random, interesting lights. I usually search "landscape lights" or "landscape lighting", or put "yard" or "garden" in place of "landscape".

http://www.mainlandmart.com/ledmart.html
This site sells a few oddball items. First, faux rocks that glow from the inside. Second, LED "stick lights" - LEDs on long black stems, that could be used to put little random sparkles in planting areas or put tiny glimmers inside or behind a big plant or in tight spots. Both, especially the first, are a bit garish for most gardens, but in a tiki space, they might have their uses in the right place.

And I wouldn't be TorchGuy if I didn't mention tiki torches. Got a few of those standard bamboo or rattan ones they sell these days? Or another container that could hold the oil canisters from those?
http://colorflametorch.com/service.htm
Sigma Services sells these. Their order page is always broken, call 'em up to order. Yeah, they're a bit pricey and they're one-use-only. But in just the right application, for those times when you've got guests over, maybe you're about to serve the Mystery Drink. Get a bunch of these lit - if you're subtle, guests may not notice - then turn everything else way, way down, put on the mysterious music, and the mood is made! They sell red, green, blue and gold.

Okay, okay... These are all new. We love vintage stuff. There's an item I want very much, but just can't spot in my budget right now. It's been on eBay for a month or so with a BIN of $99.95, it's vintage and nifty, and it really belongs in a tiki-phile's patio, especially one who likes mid-mod stuff. Feast your eyes, 'cuz you won't see one of these every day; I'll bet hundreds wore out and got tossed in the garbage:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Eames-Era-Green-Fiberglass-Yard-Lamp-Lawn-Light-/380279805057?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588a715481
Beautiful and funky green fiberglass spike-mounted mushroom light. Don't put this out in the rain, and keep the wattage under 15, is my opinion. But if there's a little spot, maybe a big bowl planter full of lush greenery or a little corner with some dirt that feels a little empty, this'll draw eyes.

~ TorchGuy

I found a bottle of the red tiki flame oil at a local Lowe's the other day. Phantom Fireworks also carries colored tiki oil re-fills as well as the torches. You have to go to your local store to pick them up, though.

If you search online, there are a couple of vendors, including Amazon, that stock the Tiki brand tiki oil refills.

Great info TorchGuy!
Can I use that ie paste it elswhere?
I think they put copper in the oil to get the green torch glow.

Yep, use/repost anywhere ya like!

Hope one of the TCers gets that fixture off eBay. It's just begging for a spot in a planter under a covered patio, if your bar has a mid-century-modern bent. If I could afford it, it'd be mine already.

Wowee, TorchGuy, you have, in one post, established yourself as a TC Technical Lighting Expert.

Do you have a home bar thread?

Just want to add an fyi: Saw this company online (http://www.simflame.com/).
They make a really cool module that allows for multiple discreet circuits of light flicker effects.

Each circuit provides it's own rate of flicker so your lights all flicker at random rather than in unison.

This type of flicker effect is seen in some of the lighting (lanterns, torches, candelabras) in Disneyland's Pirates of the Carribbean, Indiana Jones, Haunted Mansion, etc. :)

I actually don't have a home bar, or any tiki-themed space. I do collect an awful lot of oddball things, including vintage light fixtures, and my collection spaces are jam-packed with stuff, but very little of it is really tiki. I have a fair few vintage all-metal tiki torches, a few mugs, and lots of mid-mod items.

The flicker circuits are nifty, there are a few on the market. They're good for faux torches, or fake beds of coals for fireplaces. Another interesting product (I won't list a web site, many sites sell them) is a light bulb called a Feelings Flame. It's THE most realistic candle simulator. The bulb looks like a candle with a Candelabra screw base on the bottom; they sell them overseas, too, with bayonet bases, and I'm sure European screw bases, too. On top is a tiny 'wick' topped by a white tip shaped like a real candle flame, which glows a sort of creamy white color. The flame tip is built like a pendulum, and tiny pulses of current at random moments induce swinging. Remember, real candle flames, at least where there's no wind to make them gutter, don't flicker so much as they waver. These are pricey, about $25 each (if the site you're looking at charges more than $26 or so, try another) but they're hyper-realistic. You can cover them with the traditional plastic or wax 'dripping candle' sleeves, cut to the right length.

On 2010-10-26 20:57, TorchGuy wrote:
I actually don't have a home bar, or any tiki-themed space. I do collect an awful lot of oddball things, including vintage light fixtures, and my collection spaces are jam-packed with stuff, but very little of it is really tiki. I have a fair few vintage all-metal tiki torches, a few mugs, and lots of mid-mod items.

The flicker circuits are nifty, there are a few on the market. They're good for faux torches, or fake beds of coals for fireplaces. Another interesting product (I won't list a web site, many sites sell them) is a light bulb called a Feelings Flame. It's THE most realistic candle simulator. The bulb looks like a candle with a Candelabra screw base on the bottom; they sell them overseas, too, with bayonet bases, and I'm sure European screw bases, too. On top is a tiny 'wick' topped by a white tip shaped like a real candle flame, which glows a sort of creamy white color. The flame tip is built like a pendulum, and tiny pulses of current at random moments induce swinging. Remember, real candle flames, at least where there's no wind to make them gutter, don't flicker so much as they waver. These are pricey, about $25 each (if the site you're looking at charges more than $26 or so, try another) but they're hyper-realistic. You can cover them with the traditional plastic or wax 'dripping candle' sleeves, cut to the right length.

There's another LED candle which is also pretty good. This one is using a patent from Disney. These may be the most realistic electronic candles yet but unfortunately are also the most expensive. The cheapest is around $50.00!

Here's a link. Be sure to check out the video:
http://www.myluminara.com/

Those are amazing! Thank you!! Will actually BE at Disneyland, for the first time in decades, next week, so I'll have to look for these.

Edit: Having looked at photos and video of these Dream Candles, I 'get it' now. The Feelings Flame has a light inside the flame tip. The wick is a long, thin stem with a weight at the bottom, pivoted on a horizontal axis by two pins, which supply the power to the tip. An electromagnet pulls at the weight at random moments, inducing the oscillation of the flame pendulum.

It seems the Dream Candles simply elaborate on this idea, but they do it perfectly. They have a flat flame 'tongue' with a weighted pendulum below, which has a wire inserted horizontally at midpoint. The motion in these is on two axes, it seems. One (X) is the flame itself, pivoting side-to-side as the wire itself rotates, moving the flame tongue side-to-side on its thin, narrow axis. The other (Y) is the wire; I figure the horizontal wire moves up and down, moving the flame back-and-forth on its flat axis like a fan. The light is projected up onto the flat sides from below, through the small hole around the base of the flame tongue, making a bright spot on the tongue. Thus, the X axis wiggles the tongue, and the Y axis moves the bright spot up and down on the tongue. With both happening at random times and with varying strength, it makes for an incredibly realistic candle flame! These are really amazing.

For great big roaring fires, nothing beats the silk flame effect, but the home silk flames in black bowls, and in fact almost all you'll find in stores, are pretty poor. You need a nice blower fan, like a squirrel cage, a sheet of very thin white silk with a flamey cut to the top, and more than one color of light. The flame has to be long and wide enough to roll and ripple, and while orange should be the dominant color, you need small bits of white, gold and blue. If anyone here is looking for top-notch silkflames, I can dig up some links. As anyone who's seen one of the common 'black bowl' silkflames can probably attest, they tell the viewer 'this is supposed to be fire', but they don't make you look twice, thinking it IS fire. The best silkflames make you do a double-take!

[ Edited by: TorchGuy 2010-10-26 21:51 ]

The top of the line Sim-Flame module ($149) independently controls up to 5 individual lighting fixtures. It has 8 different flame effect settings and works with any normal plug-in fixture using any kind of light bulb -- which is more efficient in the long run than....

Feelings Flame ($25 each) -- have to buy a whole new 'Feelings Flame' candle device when the light burns out.

Dream Candles ($50-$70 each) -- battery powered (regularly replace batteries) and inconvenient for hanging fixtures when you have to climb up and switch them on individually rather than flip a light switch.

[ Edited by: Mr. Pupu Pants 2010-10-26 22:38 ]

These have different applications, too, though. The Feelings Flame is best where you want a thin, traditional candle and where the flame will be visible. Dream Candles also go in spots where you want the flame visible, like on tabletops and in big lanterns.

Flicker effects units are best where you want lots of flickering lights AND the bulbs won't be visible. Hanging paper lanterns; 'fire' effects aimed up onto moving water; lights shining up on Moai or set behind masks; they've got their applications. I highly recommend single 7-watt white or clear candelabra-base bulbs if you're trying to simulate a candle flame, and a cluster of three+ of the same bulbs, I'd say amber, red and white, if you're simulating bigger flames, with each bulb on its own flicker circuit. Three bulbs (I'd say transparent/clear orange, red and clear) behind a mask with open eyes and mouth, or shining up on a standing Moai or tiki, would be fantastic.

If you're using colored light anywhere, by the way, I highly recommend the following:

First, candelabra base bulbs, aka E-12 or "c7", fit just about anywhere. Even the smallest spot can often hold one. Sockets: Grand Brass is your friend on these.
This page:
http://www.grandbrass.com/catalog.cfm?category=Sockets&subcategory=Candelabra%28E-12%29%20Base%20Sockets
lists sockets that clip into a round hole and, lower down, various heights of socket that screw onto a threaded pipe, which can be bought at any hardware store in countless lengths.
This page:
http://www.grandbrass.com/catalog.cfm?category=Sockets&subcategory=Candelabra%28E-12%29%20Base%20Sockets&STARTROW=18&ANAME=top
See cat. no. SO10032, or cat. no. SO10032BRS if you want a brass bezel. These push into a round hole and the bezel screws on to hold them in. Immediately below are pre-wired strings of three and four sockets.
On this page:
http://www.grandbrass.com/catalog.cfm?category=Sockets&subcategory=Candelabra%28E-12%29%20Base%20Sockets&STARTROW=29&ANAME=top
You'll find screw-on 'festoon' sockets, cat. no. SO267. Just unscrew the cap, lay your zip cord in, screw the cap back on, and the metal spikes pierce the wires' insulation. You can hang these on a string for party lanterns, using the included hook, or remove the hook and hide them anywhere along a cord. If you're running a bunch of little lights behind objects in spots with a few feet between each, these are for you; run the cord from place to place, and stick a socket wherever you want it.

http://www.bettyschristmashouse.com/lights/classic.htm
This site has many colors of C-7 bulbs, in boxes of 25. Big box hardware stores sometimes sell these by-the-bulb at Christmas. I suggest experimenting with many different colors. Ceramic, transparent and the somewhat hard-to-find metallic colors all give different effects for concealed/back/internal illumination. A warning: except the transparent dark purple (sometimes sold as blacklight, though it isn't) most purple bulbs end up looking very orange. So does ceramic pink; transparent fuschia pink and metallic pink are very pink. Effects vary even within a color: if you want blue, if possible try ceramic blue, transparent dark blue, transparent teal and metallic blue, as all will be different. Most stores also sell the traditional orange neon 'flicker flame' bulbs, which I think do have their uses, though they're not at all realistic. A whole bunch of these behind a fake fire log does a nice imitation of glowing embers.

A bunch of these sockets, a spool of cord, and you're set.
http://www.grandbrass.com/catalog.cfm?category=Wire&subcategory=On%20the%20Roll%20or%20Loose
Grand Brass has cord, too, booth zip cord (table lamp cord) in multiple colors, and twisted or flat cloth covered cord, also in multiple colors. The latter is great for putting on vintage table lamps or desk fans, or using to suspend lightweight hanging fixtures.

Sorry, double post

[ Edited by: TorchGuy 2010-10-27 05:11 ]

On 2010-10-26 22:24, Mr. Pupu Pants wrote:
The top of the line Sim-Flame module ($149) independently controls up to 5 individual lighting fixtures. It has 8 different flame effect settings and works with any normal plug-in fixture using any kind of light bulb -- which is more efficient in the long run than....

Feelings Flame ($25 each) -- have to buy a whole new 'Feelings Flame' candle device when the light burns out.

Dream Candles ($50-$70 each) -- battery powered (regularly replace batteries) and inconvenient for hanging fixtures when you have to climb up and switch them on individually rather than flip a light switch.

[ Edited by: Mr. Pupu Pants 2010-10-26 22:38 ]

I agree, the Sim Flame modules are great for hardwired applications. I have a three channel unit controlling some lanterns in my backyard which has been working great for years. But don't dismiss battery powered candles. As TorchGuy pointed out, they have their own set of advantages. Mainly portability.

The simple flickering LED candles, either the tealights or the ones in wax or plastic "candles", are also very nice and not too expensive. Both can sometimes be found cheap on eBay. I suggest always buying the 'yellow' or 'amber' color; I'm not sure why white is an option, but the white ones are cold white. Though actually, if you're doing Halloween decorations, I can see decorating a room in your haunted house entirely in shades of black, white and gray, and using these white flickering LED candles - your guests just stepped into black-and-white! They'd be the only color or 'life' present.

I picked up some globes from my local lighting store. Each kit comes with four globes (think paper/cloth spheres) each with a votive sized module inside. They run on low voltage (transformer and wire included) and each module has three micro bulbs inside that flicker very realistically. These were designed to be used outside. I'll be using the modules in a variety of different lanterns around my room - they are currently illuminating some of my Halloween decorations.

I'll take a look at the box tonight and post again. I picked up four sets (of four lights each).

Interesting topic. I suggest that you wait to implement LED's for your outdoor lighting. The technology is too new and most of the current LED fixtures have been rushed to market with inadequate testing. In two to three years bright light LED's for outdoors will be much more dependable and much cheaper. In the meantime, stick with low voltage outdoor lighting $$$$

[ Edited by: Hakalugi - spam link removed - 2010-10-30 00:19 ]

On 2010-10-29 23:56, jamaicabraden wrote:
Interesting topic. I suggest that you wait to implement LED's for your outdoor lighting. The technology is too new and most of the current LED fixtures have been rushed to market with inadequate testing. In two to three years bright light LED's for outdoors will be much more dependable and much cheaper. In the meantime, stick with low voltage outdoor lighting.

Huh? Whatever... I've had low voltage LED lighting in my backyard for close to four years now and it's been great! Luxeon is key! Very efficient and less expensive over time than the other options. Nevertheless, I look forward to even better and cheaper LED options. But there's no reason to wait!

Agreed Hakalugi. I put LED rope lighting in my bar because they are low-heat, much lower in wattage (read: money saved), and I was able to add a flickering option that approximated the effect I was after (but it ain't perfect). They were also rated to last 30,000+ hours. That seemed like a great alterative to buying traditional bulbs.

I get my LED candles here:

http://www.coolstuffcheap.com/inglowflamelesscandles.html

Part of the reason they look good is that the LEDs are surrounded by real wax, like a candle that has burned down a bit. Makes the color a lot nicer. I looked these up after seeing something on HGTV. The manufacturer appears to hold a patent on the exact mechanism, but doesn't sell directly. Now, that was a few years ago, and I can't be certain that coolstuffcheap is selling now what I got then.

This is probably too late but, the Halloween stores have 50% off today.

I picked some LED e27 style bulbs. I hope $5/per bulb is a good deal. :)