Affordable California Living??

Yeah. I would not be able to compete. Wouldn't even try. I stay out on the fringe- the REAL boonies! But I always prefer to buy. It keeps me planted, gives me something to work on, and if it's done right is usually about half the monthly cost of renting. And we always walk away with a nice little profit in the end.

Poly Pop's house is a nice strategic location - He is still close enough allowing him to commute into OC or LA for events- he found a little pocket that hadn't been stampeded with development yet -but even where he is, he is being surrounded by development (I'm afraid the secret is out on that little patch of land called Corona...) and the prices are rising. he's right - the entire So. Calif. market is one of multiple offers. Depending on demand, you are looking at offering asking price or more to get a house. But before I get too off track - seriously - if you live by the seaside now, I would think long and hard before moving to the desert. I am from the south bay (Hermosa Beach) and have been bitching about having to move to Glendale (the boonies, as I call it) - it is hot here. But, two weeks ago I took a camping trip that took me (unexpectedly) to the desert - past Palmdale and to the left (the Tehachapi's to be exact). I didn't even make it through the day - so hot and then it rained while it was hot - (totally weird if you are from L.A./O.C.) I told the pirates I was supposed to stay the night with that I wasn't into the camping and wanted to go home - I came speeding back to Glendale glad to even have this little house - Glendale may be hot part of the year but it is nothing like the desert - you will really be sacrificing your lifestyle to locate in California if your only option is the desert. Don't know what your budget is but you can still buy a place out by me - a fixer for $350,000..... in La Crescenta/northern Glendale.

Oh and what about buying a condo? You can start out here with a condo for under $200K (I am talking about in the San Fernando Valley) - appreciation in So. Calif. is high and fast - before you know it, you'll be able to swing a house!

I agree with Hanalei_Pirate, there is no in between in the Deserts. It is either too hot, too windy or to cold. But you can still pick up a 1800 sq. ft. 3 bedroom, 2 bath with acreage for under 80,000 (not a fixer upper) if you look. My friend just bought a cute 1964 ranch house for 78K, in Apple Valley not to far from Roy Rogers old house. Property here is going up and fast too! The average house up here is going for about 130 to 250K. Unfortunaley unless your in construction you will have to commute to make any kind of living. My husband has about had it with his commute to Pasadena everyday. Out of the house by 5:30 and home by 7:30 on a good day. :(

[ Edited by: DawnTiki on 2003-08-08 17:57 ]

People ask how much further the prices can go up down here in L.A./So. Calif. - well, when I first started looking for a house over a year ago, it was for a $300,000 house and then by the time we finally got a place the market for what we wanted to buy had surpassed $400K. The fact that Apple Valley is rising fast means this trend is happening all over California. Just look at what happened to the Antelope Valley - it is full of houses, it is hot and they are all stuck out there in their nice little air-conditioned boxes having to commute to jobs in the L.A. area on just one freeway - the 14, Some employment has moved out there but it is mostly housing. And now the housing there is not that cheap anymore - like, $300K for a house (although you will get a brand new 2 story house for that) - you have to go to Palmdale and further to find any new houses in the $200K range.

Of course how much are people willing to pay to live in So. Calif.? I have a theory about this and it has to do with immigration and the constant push on the housing supply - the prices will continue to go up as long as there are people willing to pay. Immigration puts a heavy demand on the housing stock here - immigrant families are willing to live in extended family situations in order to afford a house. The Armenian guy next door has his mom or grandma living in the garage and just added another shack onto the back of his place - having a nuclear family in So. Calif. is fast becoming an unaffordable lifestyle. Someone came to my door the other day and tried to give me info on "say no to drugs" asked me if I had any kids. I said, heck, I was lucky enough to buy a house - and I'm driving a 12 year old car with almost 200,000 miles on it, how can I afford to have a kid? I feel really sorry for those who have kids, work and live in L.A., and have to make the decision to move to So. Pasadena (one of only 2 rumored to be remaining "good" public school districts left) - houses there are spiraling out of control due to the limited supply and big demand. Due to immigration and the desirability of housing in So. Calif. don't expect the market here to drop - unless we have a huge depression "crash" like we did in 1990 - I believe the housing prices will just continue to go up - non-stop into the future for this area - those who can afford it will stay and those who can't will either have to leave, commute really far or move to apartments. Heck, apartments are skyrocketing here too. Where we left our rental in Silverlake I am pretty sure the Landlady was able to raise the rent on that place a couple hundred more than we'd been paying - easily (we were protected by rent control) - uh, I'm rambling - I guess I should try to cover one issue at a time per post!

Oh crap, I'm getting depressed......

I hear Needles is nice this time of year :D

[ Edited by: DawnTiki on 2003-08-08 18:37 ]

You guys are touching on al the subjects that caused me to start this thread in the first place. I really don't see how all the people living in these insanely expensive areas can really afford it. Especially those w/ families. There is too much that I won't sacrifice to make where I WANT to live a priority. For me, it's always been HOW I live, not where. The same thing has been happening in Portland with rising real estate prices. that's one of the reasons I'm living in a small town 3hrs away. Many, many Californians have come here, and still are because you can get so much more for your money. I recomend anyone who has had it w/ the insanity of marathon commutes and 2br fixers for half a million dollars to take a little trip to the great NW and secure your retirement now before it's too late. There are still a few pockets I would consider if I were to return, but it's really too far gone for the likes of me.
Dawn, you are describing the exact kind of place I am looking for. I saw quite a few listings just like you mentioned. hOw far is Apple Valley from Victorville ? I saw places w/ acreage there for under 100K ! Ultimately I'd like to find a town that is close to LA or the bay area where I can set up shop, stay self employed and make Tikis. And maybe someday if all goes well, open a little Tiki Bar for you all to visit. No Condos or apartments or trailer parks. I work out of my house.(actually it's the garage and back yard)
I've only been here at the coast for a couple of years. It's nice, but I'm not sold on it. I've lived in a wide variety of places and climates from the remote mountains of North Idaho, to O.C. and the South Bay. They all have their ups and downs. I joke about the heat, but it's the humid heat that really kicks my butt. Plus, hot sunny days are good excuses for sitting in the shade and drinking mai tais.

get in on the ground floor of a new arts community that desperately needs your tikis!
http://www.theartsfactory.com/

we want to buy commercial property in this arts district before it goes sky high and open up a gallery/coffee house there - maybe even one that features tikis???
any potential partners interested?

On 2003-08-08 19:11, seamus wrote:
I really don't see how all the people living in these insanely expensive areas can really afford it. Especially those w/ families.

This is a touchy subject because you have alot of Hoity Toitys down here in Orange County/L.A. County that are fortunate enough to own houses - don't know how they did it - if parents helped them out or if they are some of the few individuals that managed to make the money on their own, but they definitely should consider themselves fortunate to have what they have - maybe they bought a few years back, maybe they inherited some money but if you are earning less than $80K a year, they you fall into my camp which means you had better have about $135K down payment for a $365,000 house in order for you to qualify to make your $2200 a month payment - had I only put 20% down, I would not be able to afford a house here - those are realities - I had parents give and loan us money plus we had managed to get together $30K down payment from savings and IRA accounts. Me and my husband's cars aren't going to last forever - we will have to replace them within the next couple of years so hopefully we will be able to handle the mortgage and car payments but I just don't know. The current market really is unaffordable to first time home buyers - someone with $100K down is likely someone who is buying their second home and is rolling over their equity and appreciation in order to have such a large down payment. The other thing is very few of these folks in So. Calif. refuse to drive old beatup cars - they have newer cars and car payments in addition to their mortgages. Do the math. What kind of jobs or situations have allowed them to be so fortunate?

Hanalei Pirate,

I ask the same questions over and over again. We are a single income family (my income) and I wouldn't say that we live poorly but....I certainly don't feel like I have the means to live at a standard anywhere near my "peer group".

Many years ago a household had ONE income. Now you have double incomes... what is next. Each adult has 2 jobs? Send your kids to work in a factory? Invite your inlaws to move in with you and split living expenses?

We are creating an ever increasing standard for what is considered "acceptable living". That standard has far exceeded any reasonableness. The number of new cars I see on the road is staggering. Now take it a step further and see how many cars on the road cost $40,000 and up and it is crazy.

Perhaps I digress but it all starts somewhere.

This thread seemingly started out as a simple request for information but it unlocks a long a deep discussion about some very basic difficulties that many of us face.

I know that we are all at different points in our life and retirement is a ways off for many of us, but I have resigned myself to the fact that I will probably NOT retire near my family simply because our quaility of life/ affordability goes down each year. By the time I am 65, who knows what it will be like.

New Zealand here I come.

Madame Bong and I were fortunate to have timing on our side. We purchased our house in H.B. in 1993 during the last real estate bubble burst. The previous owner lost $80,000.

It sold for $235,000; 4 bedroom, single story, 1,800 sq', built in 1977. At the time I was a government intern (no, I didn't bl#* the president) and only making about $9.00/hr. We have since dumped over $100,000 into it and comps in the area sell for $550,000 without the improvements we made.

I also don't know how/who is able to buy the homes built in the area today. I hope those that want to own can do so. It takes years of saving and scrimping. You got to keep your eye on your target to make it happen years down the road.

Good luck!

On 2003-08-11 14:11, Monkeyman wrote:
Hanalei Pirate,

I ask the same questions over and over again.... Many years ago a household had ONE income. Now you have double incomes... what is next. Each adult has 2 jobs? Send your kids to work in a factory? Invite your inlaws to move in with you and split living expenses? The number of new cars I see on the road is staggering. Now take it a step further and see how many cars on the road cost $40,000 and up and it is crazy..... This thread seemingly started out as a simple request for information but it unlocks a long a deep discussion about some very basic difficulties that many of us face.

I hear ya, Monkeyman - the idea about your in-laws moving in is not far off from the truth - If you look at ethnic minority households - that is how they do it - the Armenian guy next door has added on and on to his place to house more of his relatives - the Hispanic folks downtown Glendale have bunkered in with 3 or 4 incomes to manage it. If you are from a culture that values the nuclear family (i.e., my mom and dad kicked me out when I was 18 and they aren't going to let me and my husband move home just because we can't afford a house!) well, you can see who is going to inherit the housing stock into the future - those with extended family situations or those who are making 6 figure incomes. I was lucky my parents coughed up some money or I'd never be able to afford the house we are in. (and I still complain - what an ingrate I am, heh?) Bong bought during the big dip - many who bought before him were in a panic mode and bought in the late 80s - then they had to sit on their houses til like 1996 when the housing market might have climbed back up to where it was when they initially bought. Many people took seconds on mortgages - all those people who couldn't hold on to their homes went into foreclosure. They are probably today's renters that drive the BMWs today - can't afford a house so might as well drive a nice car. We were wanting to buy over a year ago but my parents were on board (financially helping us) at that time so we lost a chance to make nearly $100K in appreciation that has occurred in the last year or so - normally I'd say we are like the people who bought in 1989 just before the market crashed - but as I mentioned earlier - So. Calif. is a unique situation and I don't think because of heavy immigration/population growth that prices will ever plummet (unless we have a debacle). My husband doesn't think we will be retiring here in Calif. either - how will we afford it? If we sell the house in 10 years we would only be able to buy another house in So. Calif. just as expensive as the one we left - to retire you gotta sell and take the money and run to a cheaper state - and live off that money (we don't not have much invested in stock market) I am not looking forward to that day. I would love to stay here too.

On 2003-08-08 19:11, seamus wrote:
I really don't see how all the people living in these insanely expensive areas can really afford it. Especially those w/ families.

Seamus, I was thinking the same thing for about a year before I bought my house. Ironically, its this crazy RE market that allowed me to achieve the house in the first place. My first "home" purchase was my 2 bedroom/2 bath condo in Chino Hills almost 4 years ago. Because of this crazy market, I was able to cash out $100k in equity. I put down 20% ($72k) on the new house and paid off my wife's car and all our cc's.

If you or anyone else is a first time home buyer looking for a home in this RE market, its certainly going to be tough. The 100k equity on my previous home, low interest rate and DUAL income of mine and my wife's jobs is the only way we were able to do it. Without it, I'm sure our house payment would be somewhere near 3k per month.

My only regret? I wish I did this sooner (like last year when prices in my area were about 30% less) but stupid me kept thinking the bubble was going to burst. Truthfully, I sometimes wonder if there even IS a bubble. Two examples:

• A home builder was finishing the last 9 homes of their development when we began our new house search. When we inquired about it, we were told that there were 1500 people on the waiting list! They were going to conduct a lottery for the remaining homes.

• A different housing development around the corner was opening the following week to consist of 125 new homes. Because of the situation with the last one, we decided to try our luck with that new one. On opening day 3000 people showed up to view the models and all 14 homes slated for development in Phase 1 were sold out that day! As such, they were scrambling to price Phase 2 because of the demand.

For this reason, we changed our strategy and went through a Realtor to help us. We found a home that was built 6 months ago - which we placed an offer on just 1 hour after we saw it. It had all kinds of upgrades - granite counter tops, Italian marble tile, berber carpet, jacuzzi tub, etc. My new next door neighbor told me that I was lucky to get it, not because of all the upgrades but because like my first example, they had to win their slot with the developer too, to get their house!

This market is crazy. However, as long as there is that kind of demand for new homes, I can't see prices going down any time soon. My prediction? Mortgage loans will begin running in longer terms just like when they went from 15 year terms to 25 year terms to 30 year terms. If prices don't go down, its the only way I can see people affording the payments.

**Poly-Pop ***

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2003-08-11 18:22 ]

Hey, I didn't mean to go getting everyone all depressed! I mean, I wonder about the same things, but it's all out of my league right now, so I don't sweat it too much,. Hell, I'll probably never be able to retire.

The best leads I've gotten so far on where a guy like me might find an affordable place to live that's close to a happening Tiki Town are: Modesto (not that cheap), Victorville, Palm Springs Vicinity, and Viva Las Vegas. Is that it folks? anymore tips? I really appreciate everyones input so far.
Thanks!

[i]On 2003-08-11 18:14, PolynesianPop wrote:

My first "home" purchase was my 2 bedroom/2 bath condo in Chino Hills almost 4 years ago. Because of this crazy market, I was able to cash out $100k in equity. I put down 20% ($72k) on the new house and paid off my wife's car and all our cc's.
... Truthfully, I sometimes wonder if there even IS a bubble..... This market is crazy. However, as long as there is that kind of demand for new homes, I can't see prices going down any time soon. My prediction? Mortgage loans will begin running in longer terms just like when they went from 15 year terms to 25 year terms to 30 year terms. If prices don't go down, its the only way I can see people affording the payments.

---

**Poly-Pop ***

[ Edited by: PolynesianPop on 2003-08-11 18:22 ]

That is exactly what I was trying to say - if you were fortunate enough to have bought in the last year or couple years, you've made some serious appreciation - my husband is really bitter about this because we wanted to buy over a year ago and my dad couldnt see how the market was so crazy in L.A. my other dad was telling us to low-ball offers - we saw it was coming - we knew these prices were going sky-high and our parents weren't on board as of that point to help us out. So we bought Jan. 2003 - top of the market - well, maybe the prices will keep going up but I don't think we will see the run ups that Poly Pop and other folks who were lucky enough to buy a few years ago - are seeing. He also points out my other point is that there seems to be no end to this market - where are all the people coming from? I remember hanging out in the 1980s in Huntington and how it was all fields on the old side of Main Street - today it is a sea of houses - same thing in the inland empire - same thing in Antelope Valley - where are all the people coming from? It is immigration and higher birth rates of immigrants. That's why it is really now or never if you plan to get a house - housing prices are rising faster than people's paychecks. And now the interest rates are starting to jump back up which will make houses even more unaffordable (ie. I don't think we will see prices dropping on the account of higher rates). It is something like only 23% of the people here can afford the median priced home now in L.A.

On 2003-08-11 18:32, seamus wrote:
Hey, I didn't mean to go getting everyone all depressed!

Oh, that is just me - this is my favorite topic, can't you tell? I love to talk about this stuff but yeah it was one of the big reasons I was suffering from depression - actually diagnosed with it and am in recovery now - the topic is still depressing but I am not depressed anymore because of it. I think it is a very useful discussion - you know as a side note, my husband never told anyone at his work that he bought a house - he was afraid they would all resent and hate him because he had like 2 bosses that wanted to buy - they had kids and couldn't afford it - that is just how sick and twisted it can be down here in the housing market - can anyone else relate to this?

On 2003-08-11 18:39, Hanalei_Pirate wrote:
...you know as a side note, my husband never told anyone at his work that he bought a house - he was afraid they would all resent and hate him because he had like 2 bosses that wanted to buy - they had kids and couldn't afford it - that is just how sick and twisted it can be down here in the housing market - can anyone else relate to this?

Yeah, I can totally relate. My house is newer AND bigger than my boss' house. But it goes back to having the equity on my side. He purchased his first home about 6 months ago while renting for YEARS prior to that and as such, didn't have a large down payment. As I mentioned before, the equity from my sale was what helped me...

On 2003-08-08 19:11, seamus wrote:
I really don't see how all the people living in these insanely expensive areas can really afford it. Especially those w/ families.

Well....mortgage interest and kids are tax-deductible. :roll:

Let me re-iterate:

A) Yucca Valley and the high desert. You can make $12/hour and buy a house there, and have some land to with it.

B) Bermuda Dunes, Coachella, Thousand Palms, Cathedral City; affordable and lots of 3-5-10 yr potential for appreciation (read: trade up with the equity).

Nicely stated.

I got a tip on the Chico area. Not so much right in Chico, but the smaller nearby towns like Paradise. Anyone familiar with that area? Pros? Cons?

Interesting discussion. I've been recently lamenting the exact situation you all are talking about. Nothing sucks more than making an excellent wage and still living paycheck to paycheck. Having a family seems like a rich person's luxury to me at this point.

I just bought my house in December, which may have been near the top of the market, but the SF Bay Area is a very impacted area (i.e. no new homes being built - there's no room!) so the property values always seem to creep (or leap) upwards. We love our house and were lucky to get into a great neighborhood, unlike some of the depressing ones I looked in before.

I, too, look at my house as my retirement. It's unlikely that social security will even exist when I retire, I have no gov't or corporate pensions like many of our parents did. My only option, besides meager 401ks and Roths, is to buy property in the Bay Area, build equity, buy up whenever possible or necessary, then sell and move out of state when retired. Not preferrable, but maybe a reality.

Pop, putting immediate offers on houses is something I can relate to. I saw my house, they accepted offers a day later, the next day I found out I got it. I beat 5 other bidders, which was a low number. Some other places I put offers on had over 12 bidders and the prices sometimes ran $100K over the asking price! It sounds funny to me to hear about housing elsewhere, where you can expect your house to sit on the market for months. That happens here, too, but only on overpriced homes. We're seeing quite a few "reduced price" homes out there now. But mid-range homes ($350K-$600K) are still selling like blue hotcakes.

Yes, depressing.

The payment on a $600,000 house at 6.25% APR is $3694.30. Property tax in my county would run around $750 per month for a home with that value. Of course, you may need to include Mello Roos and HOA fees of about $500 (depending on your community) per month and you are looking at almost a $5000 monthly house payment. That's right - MONTHLY!

How the hell does anyone afford a $600,000 house? And these are selling like hotcakes??? Unbelievable...

Red Bluff, Chico, Paradise are all nice and rural but getting bigger. There is still a huge population of Cow folks hangin' their hats out those parts, but Chico is fairly liberal because of the campus. Red Bluff has quite a few more "alternative" type lurkin' around then when I was livin' out there years ago.
I remember Pardise being in the news awhile back for something kind of obscure, but I cant remember what it was about.
Chongolio

On 2003-08-12 14:03, PolynesianPop wrote:
The payment on a $600,000 house at 6.25% APR is $3694.30. Property tax in my county would run around $750 per month for a home with that value. Of course, you may need to include Mello Roos and HOA fees of about $500 (depending on your community) per month and you are looking at almost a $5000 monthly house payment. That's right - MONTHLY! How the hell does anyone afford a $600,000 house? And these are selling like hotcakes??? Unbelievable...

Yeah - Poly Pop, that is right! Don't forget about those HOA fees - then maybe one can't even afford a townhouse condo either!

You should see what is going on in my home town territory of the South Bay. A cracker box in Manhattan Beach goes for no less than $600K - can't even get into the market with $500K! It used to be a community of middle class families who are all being supplanted now by the super rich - they come in and tear down the little 1950s ranch houses and build huge monstrosities on the lots! My friend from high school bought her parents house in Manhattan beach (the house she grew up in) - the parents had moved to Texas - she is now stuck there in that house because there is no way her and her husband could afford to buy a house in another area that has cheaper housing and then pay to put their kids in private schools (Manhattan Bch public schools are considered primo). She lives hand to mouth on one income - her husbands - and her kids go to school in Manhattan Beach where the average kid's parent is filthy rich. Their house is worth probably over $600K - I don't know exactly but she only paid her parents about $300K for it a few years ago. Elderly people still living in their houses there get offers all the time from developers to sell their house. They just want to mow down the house and build a several million dollar speck house for sale on the lot! In Redondo Beach the developers go after the little beach craftsman cottages - tear then down and build a two-on-a-lot type structure that is technically a condo - you are sharing a wall or at least the lot with another family and HOA money goes into an escrow account. We considered that option when we were looking down there but really wanted to live on our own piece of land - so we came to Glendale were it was a little more affordable. If you live in a craftsman house there in Redondo and someone is building on a lot next door, they just make it miserable for you to force you to sell your place so they can do the same thing to your house - tear it down and build another spec for some rich person.

On 2003-08-12 12:54, Tiki-bot wrote:
Having a family seems like a rich person's luxury to me at this point....I just bought my house in December, which may have been near the top of the market, but the SF Bay Area is a very impacted area (i.e. no new homes being built - there's no room!)
I, too, look at my house as my retirement. It's unlikely that social security will even exist when I retire, I have no gov't or corporate pensions like many of our parents did. My only option, besides meager 401ks and Roths, is to buy property in the Bay Area, build equity, buy up whenever possible or necessary, then sell and move out of state when retired....Yes, depressing.

Yeah, no wonder I'm depressed! You know when I got a house finally after going through nearly 2 years of hell - I thought I would feel safer or happier - it doesn't work that way - I still drive by all the nice houses in better areas and wish I could buy one of those! We only have 865 square feet and no AC and are really suffering now that it is summer time (if we ever can afford it, we are gonna put in central AC and heating) - and everyone's house is bigger and nicer than ours. I feel like I am living paycheck to paycheck with no security - many times I just wish we would have stayed in our little apartment in Silverlake because we had money in the bank and if anything happened job-wise, we only had to come up with $900 a month in rent! Yeah, I actually wished we still lived in that apartment and I practically drove myself crazy trying to leave there.....

I understand it has been worse in S.F. area for a long long time - even before L.A. started getting ridiculous - and I also hear parts of San Diego are just as unaffordable such but I also hear that Oceanside is still underpriced - does anyone know about this?

I'm just starting to look for houses here in the San Diego area and the same as everyone else I'm amazed by the prices. Luckily I'll have a 1030 real estate exchange from property in another part of California that I'll be "trading" for so that I won't have to drop a bundle down and be hurting on monthly payments. It kills me the prices of the homes all over San Diego but I'll need to stay here until I finish my education. After I earn my degree I'm playing with the idea of moving to Arizona where I can get a beautiful home and not have to pay the California price tag.
I'm a San Diego native however it's becoming so ridiculous to live here. It seems you work just to pay for the life style your accustom to however no money can be "saved" in the bank due to the ever increasing costs. That's just my opinion.

Ha! I had to laugh, I'm sitting here reading this thread while waiting for a real estate agent to return my call. I'm being blown off by a real estate agent! We've been looking for over a year for something we can a) afford and b) stand to live in. It's very frustrating.

We too have been toying with the idea of moving out of state, it's just too spendy around here...

A friend of mine down yonder in San Diego just bought a house in Marietta, (Sun City?)somewhere near Lake Elsinore. He couldn't afford to buy in S.D. Everybody is bouncing off the coast and heading east. Pretty soon we'll all be living in Kansas.

Hey, don't forget Oregon! If I had some friends up here I wouldn't even be thinking about leaving. Hmm,, let's see,, how's about a 3br, 1600 sq ft, ocean view home w/ a downstairs "inlaws" apartment w/sep entrance. Short walk to beach. $175,000 .
No air conditioning required!

Gosh, Oregon sounds great however I (and my hair) really don't do well in climates with a lot of moisture. I like the warm weather and my parents have another home in the Tucson area so I'm thinking of around there. For the amount I can do the RE exchange for I could have a beautiful home with monies left over. It would be great but all my classes won't transfer over so I'll be here another couple years.
Gosh, how nice to have a home in Oregon with a beautiful view right on the water! Why would you ever want to leave? :wink:

Folks, keep this in mind. Yeah, you can buy a large house out of state for a fraction of Califonia's prices, but for the most part, prices are set by supply and demand.

The reason prices are high here is because there is some reason people WANT to move here. The reason prices are lower elsewhere, is because there is some reason people DON'T want to live there.

You're not going to buy a large house for a small price and say "wow, I scored. This place is great and no one but me knew!".

Reality sucks sometimes...

On 2003-08-12 19:12, seamus wrote:
Hey, don't forget Oregon! If I had some friends up here I wouldn't even be thinking about leaving.

That is actually the first place on our list if we do decide to move... we visited Portland and the northern coast and loved it.

It's beautiful up there and I love the rain so the weather isn't a problem. The problem I'm having is finding a job... I hear they don't like us Cali folks coming in to take local jobs. I've known several people who moved up that way only to come back a year (or less) later cause they couldn't find work. Damn.

On 2003-08-13 09:14, Tiki_Bong wrote:
The reason prices are high here is because there is some reason people WANT to move here. The reason prices are lower elsewhere, is because there is some reason people DON'T want to live there.

You're not going to buy a large house for a small price and say "wow, I scored. This place is great and no one but me knew!".

Yep and my husband works in the television industry so we MUST stay in California where all the networks are - we would love to relocate south maybe to Oceanside where I think you can still get a deal and have a nice life, but we can't do a commute like that. Also my whole family is here and why do I want to relocate myself in another state and be all alone? Half of my family has seriously talked about moving to Oregon/Washington. My sister and her husband are planning to move to Seattle; my step mom probably will want to follow her up there so there goes my dad and step mom and me and my brother like it here in So. Calif. by the beach but if dad goes, we probably will follow. Dad wants to move for the same reasons - it is unaffordable to retire here- he'd like to move into a bigger house than the one he has paid off in Placentia, Calif. but in his area that would mean a whole new mortgage and he's 63 now. The other side of the family bought in 1976 at the beach (where I lived until I was 18) and their house is paid and they got plenty of money, so they don't need to move anywhere and have been retired for many years now.

Pooka, you got it right. No Jobs. Oregon has the highest unemployment in the country. Portland is bad enough, but being on the coast... forget about it. the few jobs that do come up are practically minimum wage. Portland has doubled in population in the last 10 or 15 yrs , so you can't say people don't want to live there. I have seen prices go way up. If you can find work in Oregon it's a great place to live. The Californian bashing was big in the '80's, but it's not that big of a deal anymore. Probably because every other person is now from California!
But Oregon, like most other states has a huge budget crisis and horrible school problems. It seems that for as many people that come here looking for greener pastures, just as many are leaving just looking for a job.

Absolutely what it comes down to is jobs. I couldn't afford my house here without my job, and I couldn't get a job like mine in many other cities. Certainly none with the variety of companies (video game makers) the bay area has.
I'm also pretty adamant about not having a long commute to work. I refuse to waste away 1/5 of every day of my waking life in a car on a crowded freeway, so I had to buy a house as close to my job (or potential future jobs) as possible.

Tiki-bot, your tiki icon is spraying (or is that sneezing?) - maybe you should get it neutered!

My mother-in-law (Tikitronic's mom) is under the impression that she can move to CA with maybe $180,000 from the sale of her WA house and live down there somehow, and this thread is precisely why we've been trying to talk her out of it. She doesn't have the skills to land a job making much more than minimum wage-- she doesn't have a chance.

And she was hoping we'd be moving down south too-- but, again, this is exactly why we won't be. I have a good job here, and if Tikitronic can land something even halfway decent, I like Portland enough to wait out the economy, and hopefully when the job market improves the school system will revive.

Just looking at the difference in what you can get for $350,000 in SF (tiny box next to a meth lab, if you're lucky) and Portland (1800-2000 sq ft, 3-4 bedroom, 2 bath, with a big yard, in a nice neighborhood, close-in, walking distance to a park and a nice organic grocery store) is enough to convince me. Portland's a little rainy in the winter, but hell, I can drive to CA from here!

Personally, I think every potential California resident should be persueded NOT to move here. Stay there! California sucks (especially Huntington Beach!).

There's nothing affordable in HB!!!

I remember when I was a kid, at the peak of the anti-Californian hysteria Oregon had a similar type ad campaign. There were commercials on TV encouraging outsiders to come visit our lush, green, beautiful state, and then please, go home. One of the slogans I recall was "in Oregon, people don't tan, they rust"!

For 350,000 hamburgers you can get a mansion in Turlock. In Denair, Hughson, Ballico, you can get a ranch house and acreage for cheaper then that. You can get fixer uppers by the railroad tracks for a lot cheaper and you can find good stuff in between. It's also a great place to raise kids. Alot of lakes within an hours drive too.

Cool, I'm so there! And an easy commute to the office to boot!
According to Mapquest:
Total Estimated Time: 1 hour, 58 minutes
Total Distance: 119.02 miles
If I get up at 5am, I should be home by 9:30, if I ever worked just an 8 hour day, that is.

I say this kiddingly of course, but I've actually met people who make this kind of commute every day. Ouch.

:)

I know a girl that used to work by LAX andlived out in San Bernandino. That is a long ass drive to make routinely.

Back to Vegas...
Just out of curiosity, I did a search on real estate.com for a 3+ bed 2+ bath home under 150K and it came up with over 2000 hits! It's the fastest growing city in the world... so people must to live here :)
It's just that there are just 2 frames of mind for the home buyers here - those who want all new fancy fancy places and spend a lot of $ on them and those buying older properties, yes with potential problems, but with charm and affordable price.

The s.f. valley is still probably within your reach seamus - stuff is still available under 300K - although in shady areas it's a start. and south bay probably has undiscovered pockets. The trick is to get a good agent looking for you - start looking long before you are ready to buy and see tons of homes and educate yourself to what's available for what price in what areas. That way when the sweet unforseen deal comes along - you'll know a good thing and jump through hoops. http://www.ziprealty.com seemed to give good search results as well...

So before you freak on prices in any other cities, if you are willing to buy an older place and a fixer upper to boot, i believe there are always deals to be had anywhere. We got this Vegas place for significantly less than the asking price and the median price in the hood. Why? Because no one looked beyond the overgrown bushes and filthy kitchen and no one asked about thus did not find out there were pristine hardwood floors under the smelly old carpet.

And now I will get on my soap box:
What is crazier than real estate prices is the rent that people pay to live in the so called 'hip' areas... and then they wonder why they have no money left over to save for buying. i have a girlfriend who rents an apartment in santa monica for over $2000 a month!!! this is so her son can go to a certain school. and she has had a few roommates now and then to help but with rent, but COME ON... she's is basically paying a mortgage + taxes + insurance for a $300K house at that rate - and gets no tax advantage or equity in return.

It's also all about our age of instant gratification - and about being willing to sacrifice a bit for the future. Our first home was in the unglamorous city of Reseda - (I used to call it the armpit of the valley)I swore I'd never live there in a million years, yet that was all we could afford. we borrowed 5K from folks and wiped out every last penny in savings. After living there and fixing it up (working our butts off every single weekend - eating cheap at home and not seeing a movie in a theater for 3-4 years). we eventually leased it out and moved into in a dirt cheap garage apartment for another 3-4 years just so we could save up for a nicer house in a different hood. It was literally a garage with no insulation and we washed dishes in the bathroom sink - until we finally installed a kitchen sink to go along with our hot pad and toaster oven for cooking. We sold that 1st place and now have that nicer home in L.A. we were working towards.

It's easy to get spoiled - and want to live in luxury today and then complain why there is no money left over to buy something tomorrow. I never used to understand when my parents would complain about how no one wants to work for things anymore and that everyone expects instant gratification - now i know what they were talking about. We see it all around us all the time. The good folks on tv pitch the vacation lifestyle to us daily. But i'm sorry no matter what your religious affiliations are - the protestant work ethic still rules this country and you just gotta suffer and work hard before you rest.

In this day of age we have it easier physically today than humans have ever had it, and yet we still demand and expect even more luxury and comfort and conveience for nothin'.

Now that i have worked so hard typing up this essay, i will now come off the soap box and rest with a mai tai!

oh and if you are paying over $1000 for rent, you could be paying basically a mortgage for something somewhere...

i didn't mean that to sound bitchy, just motivational. i wish everyone could own a house - not matter how small. you hunker down and scrimp and save and just do it. make a plan, (one less tiki mug a month or ??? Warren Buffet became a millionaire by bringing a sack lunch to work, get roommates to help with the monthly payment) - just do it!!!

[ Edited by: Futura Girl on 2003-08-13 23:01 ]

I agree with you wholeheartedly FuturaGirl. I stopped paying rent when I was 28 and haven't looked back. I'm on my 3rd home now and have "flipped" (remodeled and sold) 5 or 6 w/ my dad in Portland. Checking under the carpet is one of our first tasks when checking out a potential moneymaker! I know what it's like to live in 'em while working on them. I know what it's like to sell 'em and let someone else enjoy the home like you never could. But if I would've held out for some dream home that's all it would've ever been was a dream. When I was 28 I inherited $5,000 and I decided I'd rather buy a crappy little condemned house in a bad neighborhood (I was single) , than pay rent to live w/ two other smelly roomates. The house My wife, daughter and I live in now was still very inexpensive, but it's big and 2 blocks from the beach and the payments are about half of what houses much smaller than ours rent for.