Demerara replacement

I am not one to take shortcuts(unless I'm feeling really lazy). I myself have come to the realization of what happens what you use proper ingredients in a drink. Just recently I finally got my hands on some Martinique rum, and finally I realized what a real Mai Tai tastes like, not one using any old rum you have lying around. I admit that the Martinique rum added something that was indescribable, and there's literally no other rum that one could subtitute for it and get the same effect.

However, I can't find demerara rum. Nowhere. Already I'm plagued with the state-run Virginia liquor stores that carry next to nothing, and I've scouted several DC liquor stores with the aforementioned Martinique rum and perhaps a Venezuelan one here or there being the most exotic thing I can find.

I'm asking you tikiphiles to perform sacriledge and tell me a good rum (or combo of rums) that can get anywhere near mimicking a demerara. And before you DC metro-area Marylanders tell me a great shop where I can find demerara, please know that I don't own a car and it's really not an option for me.

Too many recipes in the Grog Log and others contain demerara and I have no clue if I'm hitting the mark with my poser varieties. Could someone help me out?

Check this out:

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10681&forum=10

That thread reinforces the "there is no substitute" position, which I fully respect, but I'm trying to force out a proposed substitute.

If I'm making a Navy Grog and don't have demerara, what should I use instead until I eventually find some? Perhaps someone could even induldge me and describe what demerara tastes like? I've literally never had it.

Any of that would be a huge help.

Well.....

You really can't substitute anything for the Demerera except another Demerera. Nothing else tastes quite like it.

As to suggestions you can try instead of the elusive Demerera....

Try using your newfound Martinique with a well aged dark jamaican. It doesn't taste the same, but still tastes yummy.

Or, take a well aged dark rum (Jamaican, Barbados, pick an island and exeriment) and pair it with a very young rum from the same brand/island. The two should balance out each other and give you the interest in taste similar but not quite like a Demerera.

And, have you tried any of the on-line resources. Lemon Hart is still a bit spotty in its availability, but ElDorado is usually plentiful and can be had on the cheap. Many people love the 12 year, I love the 15 year. The Gold is pretty good too, skip the white because it sucks.

Good luck, and take notes of your experimenting. Let us know what you come up with.

[ Edited by: Chip and Andy 2008-04-19 07:11 ]

Man, I just don't understand the Martinique infatuation. In my opinion, a mai tai made with 2 oz. Appleton's Extra is superior to one made with a blend of Jamaican and Martinique rums. But, I've only played around with St. James Extra Old. I understand that there's quite a bit of difference between the extra old and the Hors d'Age.

On 2008-04-19 13:46, BrickHorn wrote:
Man, I just don't understand the Martinique infatuation. In my opinion, a mai tai made with 2 oz. Appleton's Extra is superior to one made with a blend of Jamaican and Martinique rums.

Have you tried the Hors d'Age?

On 2008-04-19 13:46, BrickHorn wrote:
... I've only played around with St. James Extra Old.

Hmmm, okay. We're you aware that the Hors d'Age is quite better tasting than the Extra Old?

On 2008-04-19 13:46, BrickHorn wrote:
... I understand that there's quite a bit of difference between the extra old and the Hors d'Age.

Alright, based on our discussion, I think you already know what the next step is.

Here's a good recipe to use:
http://www.beachbumberry.com/100dollarmaitai/

Maybe then you'll understand the infatuation... or not.

Either way, you'll have fun trying.

Hey! Stop discussing Mai Tais. DJ HawaiianShirt was politely asking about Demerara Rum and possible substitutions. Get back on track.

Okay, whatever you say. Sorry about that.

On 2008-04-19 07:04, Chip and Andy wrote:
take a well aged dark rum (Jamaican, Barbados, pick an island and exeriment) and pair it with a very young rum from the same brand/island. The two should balance out each other and give you the interest in taste similar but not quite like a Demerera.

I agree with Chip and Andy, this seems to be the best thing to do if you cannot find any demerara rum which really is not possible to sub with anything really..

Is there not any online source you can use?

Hiya DJ -
I fully respect the car-less method of life in DC. That being said, there are places that are Metro-accessible that it can be found at...
Lemon Hart Demerara is usually available at...
--the Montgomery County Liquor Store in Silver Spring which is accessible from the red line, with a short walk - if you've been to SS in the last few years it is barely 2 blocks from Borders. You'll pay a lot less in MoCo's Silver Spring store:
http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/Apps/DLC/Retail/store_locations.cfm

--and also at Central Liquor on F Street in Chinatown near the Spy Museum - accessible from Gallery Place or Metro Center stops on Metro. Their price was higher than I've paid in Maryland, but the premium may be worth it for the proximity:
http://www.centralliquors.com

--If those fail you or are too far to travel, try calling Schneider's of Capitol Hill: http://www.cellar.com/
I dealt with a gent here awhile back who procured me a slew of various Fee's syrups and limited edition bitters with a very quick turnaround. VERY customer oriented as far as their service. I highly recommend them, although I'm not up on their pricing. If they don't carry it, they can likely order it.

If you really want to try it - it can be found! Good luck!
~Rupe

"Rum will be absolutely necessary to get through this night"
--Hunter S. Thompson in 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas'

[ Edited by: rupe33 2008-04-19 21:43 ]

Thanks guys. Both the demerara substitution idea and the good liquor store locations help. I'm going to check out that Chinatown locale. I've already checked a Chinatown store, but I don't think it was that one.

Thanks all.

I have not bought any for a while, but I used to get Lemon Hart Demerara 80 and 151 at the Montgomery County Liquor Kingsview store (westernmost store in the county), and I've seen it at other stores. The Montgomery County stores are often a crap shoot. They carry something for a long time, then they can't get any for a long time. Their excuse is always that, no matter what they order, they are at the mercy of what the warehouse sends them.

Anyway, here is the MC Liquor store locator page. Mouse over a store on the map and it will give you the address and phone number. I have had to call several stores sometimes to find out who's hording the W&N White Overproof or the AE Extra. You'll probably find a few that have Lemon Hart in stock.

Also check this thread for rum sources. I have been getting my demerara mail order for a while, or, by mule over the state line. I stock up when I get low and hope it keeps me till I can find it again. Don't do without and substitute, find some and order it!

And, btw, I use Royal Amber in my Mai Tai. I actually prefer it to the aged St. James...

[ Edited by: swanky 2008-04-21 14:01 ]

Gnomon, W&N White Overproof is actually one of the rarer brands that I can consistently find in DC stores. I doubt that DC is the most convenient thing for you, though...

I said it earlier, but it bears repeating.....

Lemon Hart is difficult to find these days, at least in my neck of the woods. El Dorado is easier to find, again at least for me it is.

Find one of these two and make it a staple in your bar.

Read this showdown between the two and you will see what I mean.

And maybe we can get Scottes or the Minister of Rum to add a bit to the discussion.

Quote from the article: You need Demerara in your bar, no matter what brand you can find.

I couldn`t agree more.

Another Demerara i would recommend if you can find it is Banks XM.

On 2008-04-21 12:35, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
Gnomon, W&N White Overproof is actually one of the rarer brands that I can consistently find in DC stores. I doubt that DC is the most convenient thing for you, though...

Which stores out of curiosity? I'm in pretty good shape now as far as W&N WO is concerned. There's an MC store not far away that has a lot and it seems like I'm the only one who buys it. I'm periodically in the AU/Tenely area.

Ones that come to my mind are located on G Street NW between 17th & 18th, right near the White House, and the other is Washington Liquor, the one I go to most often, which is on 12 St and F St NW, between the Metro Center and Federal Triangle Metro Stations.

How did it go DJ? Did you score the six bottles? :)

Erik the Red

I didn't buy six, Erik, I just got one. That place is pretty impressive. I'm sure it'll have a steady supply.

On a related note would it be considered sacreligious to replace 151 demerara with say a 12yr old El Dorado demerara? I'm thinking of mixing a 1934 Zombie but the complete unavailability of 151 demerera in Canada is frustrating to say the least.

The El Dorado would probably keep the taste consistent albeit with a lower octane. I would be more inclined to do that rather than use a different 151.

Thanks to the people on this board, I was helped and lucky enough to find some demerara. If you are not one that can find it, then I would echo the statement that a suitable replacement could be made with Martinique rum and perhaps a splash of some dark rum. I don't really care if people say that you can't replace it. Sometimes it just isn't around. Tiki fans shouldn't have to forego making drinks because they don't have some of the more exotic ingredients.

If it tastes good and makes you woozy, don't let anyone tell you what you shouldn't be doing. :drink:

On 2008-04-25 05:14, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
Thanks to the people on this board, I was helped and lucky enough to find some demerara. If you are not one that can find it, then I would echo the statement that a suitable replacement could be made with Martinique rum and perhaps a splash of some dark rum. I don't really care if people say that you can't replace it. Sometimes it just isn't around. Tiki fans shouldn't have to forego making drinks because they don't have some of the more exotic ingredients.

If it tastes good and makes you woozy, don't let anyone tell you what you shouldn't be doing. :drink:

Here here! I have made Soo many of the recipes with the wrong rums... I don't have Louisiana rum, or some others. Though it may keep me from having the drink as created, it certainly gives me a good idea if it is worth trying when I do have that rum. Full speed ahead!

From a recent interview with Beachbum Berry on a European blog:

http://bastardosaffrin.blogspot.com/2008/03/aloha-ladies-and-gentleman-tonight-we.html

In Europe we have the eternal problem that we can't find certain ingredients. We can home-brew Falernum, Pimento, and other mixers, but we can't distill Demerara 151. In this blog we have discussed about finding a solution for the lack of this primary ingredient in certain drinks. Can you tell what do you would do in our situation?

"This is a big problem for Americans too. Outside of the northeast states and the west coast, it's very difficult to find Demerara 151. The tragedy is, there is NO substitute for that rum.

"But I have had limited success with one kind of recipe. If a recipe calls for both gold Puerto Rican rum and Demerara 151, I've found that sometimes you can approximate the same body and flavor by substituting dark Jamaican rum and Bacardi 151. (Try this in a Zombie or Coffee Grog. Not perfect, but not bad either.)"

FYI, if anyone in South Florida is looking for Lemon Hart 151, I can point you to a store that I talked into stocking it. Just let me know. They also stock all the varities of El Dorado's Demerara plus they still have bottles of the 5-year-old Cruzan Estate Diamond gold that recently was taken off the market.

For those in the Washington DC area, one alternative is to make a road trip to Annapolis. I have been ordering El Dorado 12 and 15 year Demerara's from Bay Ridge Wine and Spirits (410) 268-1961. They just recently started stocking the 15 year. It saves shipping.

I just went back to Central Liquor yesterday.

Eegads, what a store! Most of their stock is stuff not findable in the entire Metro area. I found Rhum Agricole there, and Maraschino liquer.

I took a second look at their Demerara. They have Lemon Hart and sometimes Lemon Hart 151. If I'm not mistaken, they also had El Dorado 15y and 21y. Unfortunately those are beyond me both in price and in quality of what I want to use right now.

Viva Central Liquor. :tiki:

Glad to see you've met with some success in the Demerarra department DJ!

Here's a recent adventure I had related to this topic:

http://web.mac.com/timmayer/iWeb/Site/Blog/Blog.html

I've been making more drinks lately that called for 151 Demerara, and panicked when I saw the bottle was getting low. I've never been able to find it in Oregon, but luckily there's a plentiful amount right now around Washington state liquor stores for $27 a bottle.

The WA state website is very helpful. Start with a search here for Lemon Hart http://www.liq.wa.gov/services/brandsearch.asp, then click on "Find Store." That'll show you who has it in stock, along with address and phone # to check that it's still in stock.

Surprisingly, Washington doesn't have any of the "regular" Lemon Hart, but I see it regularly here in Oregon.

[ Edited by: Rum Balls 2008-08-07 19:06 ]

On 2008-07-26 22:32, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
From a recent interview with Beachbum Berry on a European blog:

http://bastardosaffrin.blogspot.com/2008/03/aloha-ladies-and-gentleman-tonight-we.html

In Europe we have the eternal problem that we can't find certain ingredients. We can home-brew Falernum, Pimento, and other mixers, but we can't distill Demerara 151. In this blog we have discussed about finding a solution for the lack of this primary ingredient in certain drinks. Can you tell what do you would do in our situation?

"This is a big problem for Americans too. Outside of the northeast states and the west coast, it's very difficult to find Demerara 151. The tragedy is, there is NO substitute for that rum.

"But I have had limited success with one kind of recipe. If a recipe calls for both gold Puerto Rican rum and Demerara 151, I've found that sometimes you can approximate the same body and flavor by substituting dark Jamaican rum and Bacardi 151. (Try this in a Zombie or Coffee Grog. Not perfect, but not bad either.)"

---

FYI, if anyone in South Florida is looking for Lemon Hart 151, I can point you to a store that I talked into stocking it. Just let me know. They also stock all the varities of El Dorado's Demerara plus they still have bottles of the 5-year-old Cruzan Estate Diamond gold that recently was taken off the market.

Hm. I've always just substituted an equal amount of Lemon Hart 80-proof in any recipe that calls for 151-proof Demerara, reasoning that while the drink may be less potent it will at least have approximately the correct flavor. Is the difference that noticeable?

FYI, the recent drought of Lemon Hart is over. There are several online stores with both 151 and regular in stock so you can order that way, if your state allows. If your state does not allow, work on finding someone in a state that does who is heading your way and get it shipped to them. I have always been able to find a friend or relative to help me out on this.

On 2008-08-08 08:33, Austin_Tiki wrote:

On 2008-07-26 22:32, Hurricane Hayward wrote:
From a recent interview with Beachbum Berry on a European blog:

http://bastardosaffrin.blogspot.com/2008/03/aloha-ladies-and-gentleman-tonight-we.html

In Europe we have the eternal problem that we can't find certain ingredients. We can home-brew Falernum, Pimento, and other mixers, but we can't distill Demerara 151. In this blog we have discussed about finding a solution for the lack of this primary ingredient in certain drinks. Can you tell what do you would do in our situation?

"This is a big problem for Americans too. Outside of the northeast states and the west coast, it's very difficult to find Demerara 151. The tragedy is, there is NO substitute for that rum.

"But I have had limited success with one kind of recipe. If a recipe calls for both gold Puerto Rican rum and Demerara 151, I've found that sometimes you can approximate the same body and flavor by substituting dark Jamaican rum and Bacardi 151. (Try this in a Zombie or Coffee Grog. Not perfect, but not bad either.)"

---

FYI, if anyone in South Florida is looking for Lemon Hart 151, I can point you to a store that I talked into stocking it. Just let me know. They also stock all the varities of El Dorado's Demerara plus they still have bottles of the 5-year-old Cruzan Estate Diamond gold that recently was taken off the market.

Hm. I've always just substituted an equal amount of Lemon Hart 80-proof in any recipe that calls for 151-proof Demerara, reasoning that while the drink may be less potent it will at least have approximately the correct flavor. Is the difference that noticeable?

I believe it is noticeable. There is a bite to the 151 that the 80 does not have. A bite, a kick, what have you. If you try to make a Zombie without the 151, it will taste good, but it won't have that Zombie Punch! It is a distinct flavor that will be missing. Without it, you can still have a good drink. At a New England event last year, the Bum was able to pull off a huge batch of Zombies without the 151, but while it was a great drink with a balanced flavor, it did lack the kick from the 151.

On 2008-08-08 08:54, Swanky wrote:
FYI, the recent drought of Lemon Hart is over.....

Swanky,

Is this true for normal retailers as well? Or just through Internet retailers? What has changed so that Lemon Hart is more readily available? I've been searching every liquor store that I come across in Manhattan, and only last week, I did spot a dusty bottle of Lemon Hart 80. But it was priced at a whopping $33.99!!!! I was wondering if it was because the store owner knew that he had the last bottle of Lemon Hart on sale or something.

I don't know about non-online retailers. I would assume the normal distribution is the same, but, perhaps it has changed and your local stores need to find a new source. All I know is I can get it again and that's a good thing.

What do you folks think about Pusser's Blue Label? Decent substitute? I'm not entirely sure of the blend they use, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't at least part Demerara...

Seems people are still trying to find alternatives/replacements/different ideas for Demerara Rums.

Who has found what? What tastes better than what? Are you mixing other rums? Or trying different labels from the same rum producing region?

Share!

Well, the LH151 is still rare... but if you're just talking regular demerara, as in 80 proof... I gotta tell you, I got me a bottle of the 12 yr El Dorado demerara, and I doubt I'll go back to the LH80 when (if) it comes back on the US market.

On 2010-12-20 21:29, CucamongaChango wrote:
Well, the LH151 is still rare... but if you're just talking regular demerara, as in 80 proof... I gotta tell you, I got me a bottle of the 12 yr El Dorado demerara, and I doubt I'll go back to the LH80 when (if) it comes back on the US market.

That's interesting to hear. Unfortunately i've never had the chance to try LH80 but I can get the El Dorado 12y.o. The problem is it costs $100AUS. The (only) place that sells it also has what he calls El Dorado dark and that is $50AUS. Can anyone say how that compares, not just to the 12y.o. but also to the LH80? What's the average price these two costs you guys out of curiosity?

[ Edited by: swizzle 2010-12-21 01:02 ]

Well, you're not going to like this, but El Dorado 12 year costs about $25-$26 U.S. The 15 year goes for about $35, and the 5 year for about $16.

That sucks rather large testicles.

On 2010-12-21 14:29, swizzle wrote:
That sucks rather large testicles.

You rang?

On 2010-12-21 14:55, rugbymatt wrote:

On 2010-12-21 14:29, swizzle wrote:
That sucks rather large testicles.

You rang?

Maybe. Is that for the sucking or the large testicles? :)

On 2010-12-21 00:56, swizzle wrote:
Unfortunately i've never had the chance to try LH80 but I can get the El Dorado 12y.o. The problem is it costs $100AUS. The (only) place that sells it also has what he calls El Dorado dark and that is $50AUS. Can anyone say how that compares, not just to the 12y.o. but also to the LH80? What's the average price these two costs you guys out of curiosity?

I think the El Dorado Superior Dark Rum compares well to the Lemon Hart 80. The El Dorado 12 is even better but for the price ($10-20US per bottle) I would mix with the Dark. Save the 12 for sipping.

Another hint where any demerara rum is hard to get is to make demerara simple syrup and use it along with another rum to approximate the unique demerara flavor.

On 2010-12-21 19:37, rev_thumper wrote:

On 2010-12-21 00:56, swizzle wrote:
Unfortunately i've never had the chance to try LH80 but I can get the El Dorado 12y.o. The problem is it costs $100AUS. The (only) place that sells it also has what he calls El Dorado dark and that is $50AUS. Can anyone say how that compares, not just to the 12y.o. but also to the LH80? What's the average price these two costs you guys out of curiosity?

I think the El Dorado Superior Dark Rum compares well to the Lemon Hart 80. The El Dorado 12 is even better but for the price ($10-20US per bottle) I would mix with the Dark. Save the 12 for sipping.

And an excellent sipper it is.
Loves it, I does.

I've had the 12y.o. several times at a bar I frequent and i've also had the 15y.o. there, but I do prefer the 12 as a sipper. The problem, as I mentioned above, is the cost here. Although i'm happy to make one or two cocktails using an expensive bottle of rum it gets to the point where I personally cannot taste the difference in using an expensive rum in a cocktail as opposed to a cheaper, but good quality rum, i.e. Appletons V/X, or Mount Gay Eclipse and i'd rather not waste it that way and prefer to have it as a sipper.
I have had a few bottles of the El Dorado Superior Dark Rum in the past but can honestly say I never noticed any flavours that make a Demerara rum much different to any other. It's time to get a new bottle and do some taste tests.

there is also a 21 year El Dorado,
very nice,
but at 75 to 85 a bottle.
thats a bit pricey for mixing.

I need to get another one for sipping.
but that price tag keeps me from getting one right now.

Jeff(btd)