1980's era YES:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78BivgombIE&feature=related

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2009-06-27 21:00 ]

Mid period King Crimson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJTvbgcIVQ8&feature=related

1980's King Crimson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjTxM1FiTzU

Early 1970's era ELP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y1x04hAUT4

1990's era ELP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH4LAitSXCM

uh ok,
do you like that stuff?

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Not really any more. I used to, back in the late 70's, early 80's!

Lucas, I’m guessing you still do, or else you wouldn’t be posting links to it here. And more power to you! It’s obvious most folks here wouldn’t like “that stuff,” but I suspect their reasons are more sociological than musicological. While stylistically worlds apart, I think there are a few parallels between “tiki music” and progressive rock.

1. Both require a definitive level of dexterity and speed to play well. As an example, I heard Josh Gibson of the Haole Kats play the best & fastest version of “Flight of the Bumblebee” at Hukilau 2009 I’ve ever heard. Keith Emerson (of Emerson, Lake & Palmer for the deprived) has incorporated that riff into his keyboard solo since the late sixties.
2. Many of the old-guard proggers were teens when the surf music craze was at its height. Greg Lake (again of ELP) grew up on Hank Marvin & the Shadows, and has cited their music frequently in interviews. On the rehearsal program of his two-DVD set “Greg Lake Live,” he breaks out into “Apache,” and has been photographed innumerable times in the last two decades wearing hula shirts.
3. Whether it’s a live Polynesian floor show a la the Mai-Kai, or a seventies Yes extravaganza, both phenomena can boast a high level of drama in presentation. Both openly acknowledge the entertainment value of spectacle.
4. Both require a sense of tongue-in-cheek humor and a sense of kitsch to fully appreciate. Without it, both Tiki and prog would seem to be pointless and really sad.
5. Both are equally derivative of older musical disciplines that both the general public & mainstream music critics might regard as passé and possibly politically incorrect.

And while I can’t say I want to hear a Mellotron-soaked rendition of “Quiet Village” any time soon, I can boast that I like both “tiki music” as well as old-school progressive rock. Fans of both schools will tell you that not everyone “gets it.” Those few of us who are fortunate enough to “get” both are doubly-fortunate. Dissing one or the other doesn’t enhance your enjoyment of the other, it just means you’re missing out on something that a lot of other people can’t be peer-pressured out of appreciating.

So come out of that prog closet, man. There’s nothing cool about embracing silly musical prejudices for the sake of preserving somebody else’s lack of appreciation.

A mellotron version of quiet village? That actually might not be too bad an idea!
I have a Les Baxter CD taken from some live show he did on tv, and he does a version of quiet village with strings...but the quality is old and faded sounding, which actually already has that creaky old mellotron sound, so it's not such a stretch, I guess.

For me, the distinction between prog/avante garde and exotica is simply one of the musical background (Jazz for the lounge acts, classical and beatles for the prog bands) though I know that classical (ravel and debussy in particular) were a basis for a lot of Martin Denny's stuff....there are exceptions, but I am talking as a rule...also, the distinction between the art and cultural (even drug) movements is strongly there. People listening to Martin Denny in the old days were probably sipping a martini in thier bachelor pad, while someone listening to YES (for example) would have been hitting that 2 footer in a darkened room. It really seems polar opposites.

When King Crimson first came back on the scene in 1980 with Discipline, to me, that music was very, very exotic. It took me mentally to Africa, to the sveltd and the savannah. Dark clouds rolling in while giraffes and elephants scrabled underneath...you get the picture, of course..but again, the music was very serious to me. Not much humor or whimsy about it, and that to me is a hallmark of most exotica music...though it's heavy, it's also lighthearted...

To answer your other question, I really don't listen to a lot of prog rock anymore, but there was a period of time (Late 70's) when I could not get enough of it! I still respect it, of course..and love the players. Several of the bass players are my main influences (Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, John Wetton) but these days I am more into strong melodies, and I really actually don't like much rock music as a whole anymore. Having said that, I have been listening to exotica, lounge and even world music since I was a real small kid, so it actually predates my love of prog rock. Prog rock is definitely not for every one. That mexican band you posted is one of the best I have ever seen, by the way. They should be added to this thread.

as long as it ain't surf music
i'll give it a listen....

One other thing I forgot to mention is that for me, listening to both Exotica and progressive rock (as opposed to folk- and blues-based Americana, pop songs, dance music, ad nauseum) is a form of active relaxation by way of engaging the imagination.

WARNING: NOT FOR THE MUSICALLY MYOPIC

Wow! Music outside the surfzotica box! Whodathunkit? I'm glad you kids are discussing this and maintaining civility! YAY!!

BTD, Don't worry, I won't try to spoon feed you any prog. Trust me, it will cause you to have massive epileptic seizures. And I don't want to be responsible for that, heavens no. :)

I will preface this entire rant with "I know what I like. It probably isn't what you like. There is no wrong or right here."

I still derive great pleasure from certain "prog" bands. Lucas, perhaps you don't listen to much prog any more because you were only exposed to a tiny little section of the movement. A lot of late 70s - 80s "prog" was uber-mechanical in nature and lyrically dumbed down in an attempt to achieve commercial success. 1980s era UK, Yes, Genesis, Asia, although technically proficient, were the death knell for prog and its initial experimental nature.

I never considered Rush to be prog. Using odd meters for the sake of using odd meters...ummmm....nope. Sorry. Dream Theatre...same bag. "Ice pick... meet forehead!"

Just my personal take.

I would suggest you check out some more jazzier or psych influenced prog ie:
Soft Machine
Egg
Matching Mole
Gong
Hatfield and The North
National Health
Amon Duul II
Henry Cow
Curved Air
Can (probably better classified as proto-trance)
etc....

But I'm always game for Gentle Giant or Gryphon as well. The classically influenced stuff is OK, as long as it's got some emotion.

I was fortunate enough to tour and record with Richard Sinclair in '93 and '94 and with Peter Bardens in the late '90s. Pete passed away in 2002 and I was honored to play with him at his last performance in 2001.

If you're not familiar with Richard, I suggest either 2 Hatfield and The North albums, the Hatfield BBC tapes or his earlier work with Caravan. Rich's bass work on Robert Wyatt's Rock Bottom is scary good too.

As for Pete, any early Camel or his 1970 solo album.

Richard is still scraping away in Italy, writing and performing wherever he can. A more gifted musician and generous man you will never meet.

While Pete died damn near penniless, his devotion to his art never wavered. He wasn't in it for the money. He was an artist in the true sense of the word. And while many people didn't "get it" many of us did. At least those of us who cared to open our ears beyond the daily dreck shoved down our throats by the corporate media pigs. Thanks Pete.

Oh shite! Did I just leave my prog closet door open????

White Devil, I'm always looking to discover new stuff so fire away.

I would have to disagree with you (Civily, of course!) on two counts:

1. RUSH is definitely a prog rock band, on all counts. They occupy the harder edge of prog rock, but they have all the hallmarks of what a prog rock band is. And I am not just talking about odd time signatures, because If I was, we could include Dave Matthews in there.

2. With the exception of Can and curved air, yes, you are right...my experience with prog rock is limited, but these were not main stream or highly popular prog rock bands at all. The essential "prog" rock bands, as considered by major music magazines will always be KIng Crimson, ELP, YES, early Genesis, UK and RUSH. These are the bands that had major releases that everyone pre-internet knew about. I don't agree that just because something is popular, that is is the death knell. Listen to later period YES albums like Drama, for example. This was the 80's, and it is still experimental and cool. Check out the track "machine messiah". It's not all pop music with heavy techno-synth aspects. Some of the bands you mentioned are highly obsure. It's like saying that "Weather Report ain't really jazz fusion, check out 'Oregon' if you want to see real fusion".

There are many bands that I also think fit in with the prog rock genre. Led Zep, Pink Floyd, Kansas, styx, etc...all of these bands dabbled with it.

To me, there was a distinction at the time of prog rock that I felt. Prog rock was what I liked. 10CC and Elton John were what the OTHER people liked. Now, I like pretty much all of it. There is very little music I actually don't like, except metal, most hip hop, Jimmy Buffett, jam band scene, modern country, other then that I like pretty much everything. Not myoptic at all!

I stopped listening to a lot of prog rock not because I was only exposed to a narrow slice of it, but because like most music critics, I grew to want good melodies and lyrics that meant something, or were not so much fantasy/sci fi based. Essentially, I grew up. Trippy, deep music no longer appeals to me like it did before.

I would like a Tikiyaki Orchestra cover of the complete "The Lamb lies down on Broadway" album.

Someone told me that they thought the jam band scene was progressive.

I would have to totally disagree. Check out Phish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM2dqCEDW1o

Beyond being fantastically boring, there is not a single thing progressive about it. One of the other aspects of prog rock was a high level of musicianship, and these guys just don't have it.

Good lord! This is the cutest thing I have ever seen!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XsYuHbXZUk

Squid, you better look to your laurels!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uEKsYHrYlk&feature=related

Man, the there must be something in the water in Japan that grows these type of kids!

How many 11-12 years olds over here have even heard of RUSH???

And now, the real deal....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL7MaPpNrV0

Squid, I knew you had a prog past (from your website), but didn't know if you'd put it behind you these days. Killer Tikiyaki follow-up, BTW: I got the flight bag stuff yesterday, and your mug is a classic. Here's some other prog acts you may not be familiar with (besides the civilly-put-forth Cabezas de Cera):
Ars Nova (femme from Japan)
Birdsongs of the Mesozoic
Blackfield
Doracor
Finch
The Flower Kings (earlier stuff)
Gongzilla
Hostsonaten
Karmakanic
Magenta
Mastermind
Modry Efekt
Niacin
Ozric Tentacles
Pekka Pohjola
Solution
Speechless (Time Out of Mind cd)
Stern Combo Meissen
Schicke, Fuhrs & Frohling
Univers Zero (start with "1313")
Uzva
Wigwam

I was fortunate enough to hear Hatfield & the North and Caravan two years ago, and Van der Graaf Generator this year. Next year we get a Gentle Giant splinter group.

On 2009-07-03 08:29, lucas vigor wrote:

"1. RUSH is definitely a prog rock band, on all counts."

In comparison to Elton John, sure. yawn

"2. It's like saying that "Weather Report ain't really jazz fusion, check out 'Oregon' if you want to see real fusion"."

No. It's like saying " I don't PERSONALLY care for Kenny G. I would prefer to listen to Andrew Hill and Ornette Coleman."

"Not myoptic at all!"

I never said you were. I wrote a funny headline directed at the lurkers. I know you have a wide taste in music. You're also a lovable, argumentative old coot, even when there is no argument being levied. :)

"I stopped listening to a lot of prog rock not because I was only exposed to a narrow slice of it, but because like most music critics, I grew to want good melodies and lyrics that meant something, or were not so much fantasy/sci fi based. Essentially, I grew up. Trippy, deep music no longer appeals to me like it did before."

And thus my point is made. It's all what you like, for whatever reason. It ain't "this band's better than that band" or any of that crap.

On 2009-07-03 09:57, squid wrote:

On 2009-07-03 08:29, lucas vigor wrote:

It ain't "this band's better than that band" or any of that crap.

Of course not! One man's Sangria is another man's hawaiian punch!

I like to mix all that with Sterno. :)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...Sterno......

On 2009-07-03 08:57, lucas vigor wrote:
Good lord! This is the cutest thing I have ever seen!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XsYuHbXZUk

This made my day - thanks! :wink:

On 2009-07-03 08:57, lucas vigor wrote:
Good lord! This is the cutest thing I have ever seen!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XsYuHbXZUk

OK, OK! Now I like Rush... :)

Lucas, I hate to de-rail your thread, but you know me - any chance I get to connect RUSH & tiki...

Yes, once again, it's BIG AL'S TIKI BAR!!

Episode 1: http://web.archive.org/web/20041024014238/http://www.rush.com/php/media/band/alex/tiki1.swf

Episode 2: http://web.archive.org/web/20050601115718/www.rush.com/php/media/band/alex/tiki2.swf

To get this thread back on track: I once picked up a mint condition Amon Duul II 'Tanz de Lemminge' cd at a garage sale. It was sold to me by a 9 year-old French girl who claimed it was her favorite cd and that her mom was making her sell it. True story.

I once picked up a mint condition Amon Duul II 'Tanz de Lemminge' cd at a garage sale. It was sold to me by a 9 year-old French girl who claimed it was her favorite cd and that her mom was making her sell it.

The musical Taliban strikes again.

On 2009-07-03 17:15, Doctor Z wrote:

To get this thread back on track: I once picked up a mint condition Amon Duul II 'Tanz de Lemminge' cd at a garage sale. It was sold to me by a 9 year-old French girl who claimed it was her favorite cd and that her mom was making her sell it. True story.

And you bought it anyway just to see her cry, didn't you? :D

well this will probably get panned by all of you.
but here goes.

some surfish/progish bands, please give a listen.

http://www.myspace.com/daikaiju
http://www.myspace.com/mermensurf

more metal surf, than prog, but still intense, and def not pipeline surf:
http://www.myspace.com/necronomikids

and these guys have hints of surf here and there, but if you told them that they would probably get mad
http://www.myspace.com/secretchiefs3

I was very into ELP in the early to mid '70's, probably because they sprang from some of my favourite '60's bands (the Nice, King Crimson and the Crazy World of Arthur Brown). I went to every show they played here (San Diego) and loved it. Some other bands I enjoyed back then were Tangerine Dream, Gnome Flying Teapot, Kraftwork, Matching Mole, Eno, Throbbing Gristle, and Suicide. Not all of these bands are considered "Prog Rock" by definition, but where is the line drawn between prog rock, industrial, electronica, ambient, experimental and white noise?

On 2009-07-04 17:40, Shipwreckjoey wrote:
Not all of these bands are considered "Prog Rock" by definition, but where is the line drawn between prog rock, industrial, electronica, ambient, experimental and white noise?

Good point. The "line" is rather blurry. OK, I freakin' hate musical labels period. But it seems a necessary evil for marketing.

Once I discovered some of my favorite bands had the label "progressive" pinned on them, (I had previously referred to them as "underground") it lead me to other styles. We didn't have the google or the youtube or the interwebs and such back then. If the record was in the "import" or "progressive" bin, it was worth throwing 6 to 12 bucks at it to see what it was. Especially if one player was recognized from a band you knew.(or if it had a cool cover!)

Caravan lead me to Hatfield which led to National Health, which lead to Henry Cow which lead to Art Bears, etc, etc. All of those bands being completely their own thing.

I wouldn't necessarily say that Henry Cow is "progressive rock" but that's how I found them. They do incorporate elements of rock into an Ornette Coleman/Stockhausen/Avant Garde stew. So what label should be imposed on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A5mUxLvDc4&feature=related

Hey, let's throw in some Kurt Weill flavor and add Dagmar Krause on vocals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg5i0OcEOyE

What the hell is it now?

It's music!

Labels may be a good reference point but...
Labels for music can also be prisons for the artists and mental roadblocks for the potential listeners.

Which is EXACTLY why
we should BAN lucas
and bring BONG back!
:lol:

is ELO prog-rock?

In my opinion, no, ELO is not prog rock....because their sound was very Beatle's based!

The Beatles sure had a hand in the prog rock sound..I would dare say there might not be any prog rock bands if not for the Beatles, but strictly speaking, to be a prog rock musician you had to at one point in your life been into lord of the rings AND have worn some sort of custom-made cape on stage!

Basically, this:

http://www.huxrecords.com/rick_wakeman1.jpg

What about Beefheart and Zappa and a zillion others?

the beatles participated IN
more than INSPIRED Prog-rock....

Man!
all you "experts" sure are dumb....

:)

On 2009-07-04 14:33, bigtikidude wrote:
well this will probably get panned by all of you.
but here goes.

------Way to get people to listen to it!

You know you are in a prog rock band is you have done or have engaged in any of the following behavior:

1. Wearing of capes
2. Vegetarianism OR extreme meat eating
3. Keyboards that sound like Spinal Tap mark 2 live at Magic mountain (with puppet show)
4. Incredibly ugly band members
5. Lyrics about the Lord of the rings (Or anything involving druids)
6. You had hit records between 1969 and 1974
7. No chicks like your records. At all. Period.
8. Your band mate was voted "best guitar player" in 1972
9. More then two of your songs are based on classical music.
10. You are English (and therefore incredibly ugly)
11. Music critics hated you, guitar players LOVED you!
12. You have long hair, wear spandex and play a flute! (see post below)

[ Edited by: Lucas Vigor 2009-07-09 17:52 ]

Some questions have plagued me about Prog Rock:
Arp or Moog?
Which was better and why?

On the album "Point of Know Return" by Kansas, one of the intruments listed is a "Peabody Chromatic Inverter"

Kansas: Point of Know Return

What is a Peabody Chromatic Inverter?

[ Edited by: King Bushwich the 33rd 2009-07-09 22:22 ]

On 2009-07-09 22:10, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:
Some questions have plagued me about Prog Rock:
Arp or Moog?
Which was better and why?

On the album "Point of Know Return" by Kansas, one of the intruments listed is a "Peabody Chromatic Inverter"

Kansas: Point of Know Return

What is a Peabody Chromatic Inverter?

[ Edited by: King Bushwich the 33rd 2009-07-09 22:22 ]

That question should be asked here: http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=32779&forum=13&62

I'm sure you will get an interesting and informative, yet problematic answer. :)

"The album's performing credits listed one joke "instrument" for each band member, such as "chain-driven gong," "autogyro,""Rinaldo whistling machine" and "Peabody chromatic inverter"

WAY TO GO
GEEKING OUT ON KANSAS!
:lol:

this thread unintentionally cracks me up...

On 2009-07-09 15:58, squid wrote:

On 2009-07-04 17:40, Shipwreckjoey wrote:
Not all of these bands are considered "Prog Rock" by definition, but where is the line drawn between prog rock, industrial, electronica, ambient, experimental and white noise?

Good point. The "line" is rather blurry. OK, I freakin' hate musical labels period. But it seems a necessary evil for marketing.

Once I discovered some of my favorite bands had the label "progressive" pinned on them, (I had previously referred to them as "underground") it lead me to other styles. We didn't have the google or the youtube or the interwebs and such back then. If the record was in the "import" or "progressive" bin, it was worth throwing 6 to 12 bucks at it to see what it was. Especially if one player was recognized from a band you knew.(or if it had a cool cover!)

Caravan lead me to Hatfield which led to National Health, which lead to Henry Cow which lead to Art Bears, etc, etc. All of those bands being completely their own thing.

I wouldn't necessarily say that Henry Cow is "progressive rock" but that's how I found them. They do incorporate elements of rock into an Ornette Coleman/Stockhausen/Avant Garde stew. So what label should be imposed on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A5mUxLvDc4&feature=related

Hey, let's throw in some Kurt Weill flavor and add Dagmar Krause on vocals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg5i0OcEOyE

What the hell is it now?

It's music!

Labels may be a good reference point but...
Labels for music can also be prisons for the artists and mental roadblocks for the potential listeners.

I checked out the Henry Cow.. Good stuff, Squid! If I had to categorize it, I would say "Jazz Rock", and would agree with the poster on youtube that said it was similar to early Chicago.

Now yer crackin' me up! :lol:

Early Chicago..... yeah.... :)

And now for something completely different.....
Theremins rule!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg0KG2-5j_Y&feature=related

See how long it takes you to figure out the song he is playing.

I listened to the whole thing and still can't tell what it's supposed to be, but we need to start a public awareness campaign to keep Theremins out of the hands of Soviet Socialist rednecks.
This reminds me of the bar band that was playing at the Atlanta Trader Vic's last week, when Tiger Lily, Basement Kahuna and his girlfriend Brooke and I visited. We were "treated" to a medley of eighties ballads, Celine Dion, Michael Jackson and Lynyrd Skynyrd (all accompanied by the Theremin) instead of tiki bar music. I would recommend firing this band ASAP and hiring our late-model Asian server to sing, instead.

On 2009-07-16 10:12, White Devil wrote:
...
This reminds me of the bar band that was playing at the Atlanta Trader Vic's last week, when Tiger Lily, Basement Kahuna and his girlfriend Brooke and I visited. We were "treated" to a medley of eighties ballads, Celine Dion, Michael Jackson and Lynyrd Skynyrd (all accompanied by the Theremin) instead of tiki bar music. I would recommend firing this band ASAP and hiring our late-model Asian server to sing, instead.

Thanks to Virani, theremins are being used for positive purposes as well.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=32786&forum=11&start=0

Lucas wins!

It was Caravan.