Lemon Hart 151

On 2010-06-24 14:15, tabuzak wrote:
"...If you are concerned, I would go for it."

Oops, too late... unless they do get a next shipment. Same thing with the 80º, BTW.

Well, crap! So soon! I guess that was to be expected, but I hope I got the word out in time so that most, if not all of that, went to Tiki Tipplers!

-Jack

In Palm Springs, my friends and I have been able to get Lemon Hart at Jensons.

On 2010-06-28 11:51, telescopes wrote:
In Palm Springs, my friends and I have been able to get Lemon Hart at Jensons.

80 or 151? Or both?

Here is drinkupNY's response to my query re Lemon Hart being temporarily out of stock.

"The producer of the Lemon Hart Rum is in the process of changing their distributor in the United States. Until that legal process is complete, they will not be able to sell this product in the US. "

Interestingly, it appears that they are taking orders, i.e. back orders. They must have some confidence that they will be getting sock within a reasonable amount of time?

-Jack

[ Edited by: tabuzak 2010-06-28 13:16 ]

[ Edited by: tabuzak 2010-06-28 13:38 ]

I posted this back a page or 2..... they still have some

Hi All I usually order from drinkupny, but they ran out yesterday, On a Hunch I called a liquor
Store on the big island, they have lemon hart 151 and I wAs able to place an order, their prices were very reasonable
If you are all interested, call Howard at 808-329-9400 it's the Kona wine and spirits

Amy

both

On 2010-06-28 12:29, Hakalugi wrote:

On 2010-06-28 11:51, telescopes wrote:
In Palm Springs, my friends and I have been able to get Lemon Hart at Jensons.

80 or 151? Or both?

Both. Sometimes they have it on the shelf.

I went to Beverage Warehouse yesterday looking for some and it's all gone. I called everywhere I could in SoCal and couldn't find anything. Fortunately, I squirreled away a bottle of the 151 when I heard that it was going to be discontinued last year but I'm down to about a half bottle on the regular 80 proof. The El Dorado 12 year is the best approximation? This would be a great way for a boutique rum producer -- I'm looking at you, Ballast Point -- to make a mark.

On 2010-06-04 17:14, toofastjim wrote:
here's the response I got from demerara Distillers. Definitely worth everyone sending an email...or at least it can't hurt.

Thank you for your email expressing your regret that Lemon Hart rums will no longer be available in the US and we will pass on your sentiments to the distillery who will no doubt forward this to the brand owner Mosaic in Canada. Do note that although our demerara rums were indeed involved with Lemon Hart we were never part of the importation, distributing and marketing activities in the US.

What email address did you use? The only one I found online was a defunct AOL address.

Thanks!

On 2010-07-11 15:01, Vic Arpeggio wrote:
What email address did you use? The only one I found online was a defunct AOL address.

When I wrote, I wrote to [email protected].

If we were to ever see this rum available again my guess is that it would be as an El Dorado branded product.

For what its worth, I saw all the Lemon Hart you'd ever want on the shelves and in bars across Alaska... the desperate among you may want to call Brown Jug (a likker store chain up there) and pay what will doubtlessly be ridiculous shipping charges.

[ Edited by: tikibars 2010-07-12 08:14 ]

[

What email address did you use? The only one I found online was a defunct AOL address.

Thanks!

I used the one posted earlier in the thread by Rangda

For those in the US:

[email protected]

good luck. For me, it doesn't have to say Lemon Hart - just have it be the same 151 proof dark/amber nectar that is currently in the LH bottles - I'd be totally happy with an El Dorado branded rum with the same flavor, just not the clear kerosene they market as "high strength" demerara rum, although that is good for flaming drinks.

tfj

[ Edited by: toofastjim 2010-07-12 11:25 ]

PLEASE post up if you have any info on this topic, stock located or production information etc. I can't find ANY MORE Lemon Hart! Need to figure out how well to conserve my very small supply!
Cheers, Joseph.

[ Edited by: TORKERTIKI 2010-07-25 10:02 ]

I posted a question on the El Dorado Facebook fan page asking if they planned to produce a dark 151 and this was the reply:

yes, we are thinking about it as we actually used to produce most of the other well known dark 151s that have recently been discontinued. Or we could do more of an aged golden one to avoid using too much colouring...
It might take a wee while to release, but the demand has been noted!
In the meantime, try a combination of our 5yo, 8yo or 12yo (as these have a lot of complexity and character) and any overproof rum (to give you the strength) in your exotic cocktails.
It's not ideal, but it will get you halfway there!
Thanks v much

So they are listening.

Thanks for the great info Rev, Keep us posted! Cheers, Joseph.

This thread got me a bit worried. I bought 7 bottles in the past few days.

It's getting difficult to find in Europe too, at least the 151... managed to get a bottle from German eBay, received it yesterday. :)

http://tradermagnus.blogspot.com

[ Edited by: Trader Magnus 2010-08-05 03:04 ]

Mosaiq seems to be keeping the Lemon Hart Brand. However it seems to be doing away with the "overproof" entirely. I suspect it is a Canada legal thing.
I would suspect they will continue to manufacture the Lemon Hart Brand.

As far as Demerara, it is a designation of the sugars from Guyana. Other brands can (and do) use the Demerara designation(El Dorado is one). Can they continue to use it and distill it in Canada? I do not know. But i am suspect as far as what quality to expect.

If you are not purist, excellent "uncivilized" brands are still plentiful. And Gosling 151.. 2 blurry thumbs up.

Just bought 2 bottles of 151 from the store I used to work at. Friend of mine said that may be more at the distributor, but since the two they had at the store have been on the shelf for nearly a year, he wasn't sure if he could order more. If your in the Michigan area, buy them while you can.

On 2010-08-13 16:50, softspirit wrote:
Mosaiq seems to be keeping the Lemon Hart Brand. However it seems to be doing away with the "overproof" entirely. I suspect it is a Canada legal thing.
I would suspect they will continue to manufacture the Lemon Hart Brand.

As far as Demerara, it is a designation of the sugars from Guyana. Other brands can (and do) use the Demerara designation(El Dorado is one). Can they continue to use it and distill it in Canada? I do not know. But i am suspect as far as what quality to expect.

If you are not purist, excellent "uncivilized" brands are still plentiful. And Gosling 151.. 2 blurry thumbs up.

Another two thumbs up here for Gosling 151 Softspirit. While it's not a perfect replacement for a Demerara 151 (Gosling lacks the smokey flavour of demerara rum), it's very flavourful and fits the bill in Tiki mixology better than Cruzan or Bacardi's 151, IMHO.

I could be mistaken, but doesn't the rum actually have to be produced in Guyuna to be called 'Demerara', similar to an Appellation of Origin designation? My understanding is that the rum can be aged & bottled anywhere, but the base rum has to be distilled in Guyana and made from the right types of sugar. again, I could be wrong here.

There's some useful information here regarding Demerara Rum:

http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1967

From the desciptions I have read on Demerara sugar, it sounds much like what is sold as "Sugar in the raw" in the USA.
The truth is in the tasting.

It will be interesting to see what Lemon Hart can provide in the future.. But as corporations change the rumscape,
it is up to the customers to vote with their elbows.

Bacardi 151 makes a pretty good solvent. Gosling 151 makes an excellent tiki 151.
Flora de Cana makes a very nice dark rum, 10 cane a suprisingly delicious golden/light rum.
Clear rum.. I can work around without.. but would certainly listen to suggestions.
I would use Bacardi because I do not know any better.

I just had someone pick up a bottle of the 151 for me in Alaska. Apparently, they still have some up there! As for the future of Lemon Hart, my suspicion is that they will continue to have rum shipped in bulk from Demerara Distillers and blend it with "Canadian rum" before bottling it in Canada. If this product is then exported into the US (with or without Demerara designation) I say don't bother with it. Another Canadian on this thread said it doesn't affect the flavour but having tried Lemon Hart both here and in the US I can definitely say it does. As for the 151, I reeeeeaaallly hope El Dorado comes up with their own version (dark, not white) and it becomes available here because I'm already worried about what's going to happen when this bottle runs out...

On 2010-08-05 03:04, Trader Magnus wrote:
It's getting difficult to find in Europe too, at least the 151... managed to get a bottle from German eBay, received it yesterday. :)

---

http://tradermagnus.blogspot.com

[ Edited by: Trader Magnus 2010-08-05 03:04 ]

Very interesting.. How much did this set you back?

I'm trying to make my treasured 3 bottles of Lemon Hart last, but it'd be nice to know these won't be my first and last experience with LH. Sadly this thread tells me otherwise...

Back in March someone registered the domain lemonhartrum.com and there is finally something at that address, just a placeholder graphic.

http://www.lemonhartrum.com/

Looks like a new design for the bottle label and different glass with a bulge in the neck of the bottle.
Identical to the Screech rum bottle actually with the same plastic wrap on the neck.

And what does it say on the label? I cannot quite make it out. RHUM DEMERARA?

Also... the Newfoundland & Labrador Liquor Corporation shows over 300 bottles of the stuff in current inventory with an origin of Newfoundland & Labrador (NL) so they seem to have production ramped up.

http://www.nfliquor.com/

[ Edited by: rev_thumper 2010-08-20 17:58 ]

:) :(

On 2010-08-20 14:47, harro wrote:

On 2010-08-05 03:04, Trader Magnus wrote:
It's getting difficult to find in Europe too, at least the 151... managed to get a bottle from German eBay, received it yesterday. :)

---

http://tradermagnus.blogspot.com

[ Edited by: Trader Magnus 2010-08-05 03:04 ]

Very interesting.. How much did this set you back?

I'm trying to make my treasured 3 bottles of Lemon Hart last, but it'd be nice to know these won't be my first and last experience with LH. Sadly this thread tells me otherwise...

It was €30 + postage, worth every cent. Haven't seen another bottle on eBay since then...

On 2010-08-20 17:46, rev_thumper wrote:
Back in March someone registered the domain lemonhartrum.com and there is finally something at that address, just a placeholder graphic.

http://www.lemonhartrum.com/

Looks like a new design for the bottle label and different glass with a bulge in the neck of the bottle.
Identical to the Screech rum bottle actually with the same plastic wrap on the neck.

And what does it say on the label? I cannot quite make it out. RHUM DEMERARA?

This is interesting. Yeah, it says "Rhum Demerara Rum" on the label - everything is in both English and French for Canadian product. It also says "Product of Guyana." But nothing about 151 proof, which is what everyone is concerned about.

On 2010-08-21 10:09, arriano wrote:
But nothing about 151 proof, which is what everyone is concerned about.

I sent an email to the address listed on the web site asking about availability in the United States of the 80 and 151 proof products. The reply came from a mosaiq.ca address and said:

"Our plan is to have both Lemon Harts back in market by the fall. We are currently setting up our infrastructure so that we can properly supply the USA."

On 2010-06-28 17:36, Queen Kamehameha wrote:

I posted this back a page or 2..... they still have some

Hi All I usually order from drinkupny, but they ran out yesterday, On a Hunch I called a liquor
Store on the big island, they have lemon hart 151 and I wAs able to place an order, their prices were very reasonable
If you are all interested, call Howard at 808-329-9400 it's the Kona wine and spirits

Amy

Just an update, I called up these guys and they have "a bunch of it". Price is pretty dang high (two bottles cost me around $100 shipped), but hey you only live once, right? Just make sure you really really enjoy those Jet Pilots :D

Link here: http://www.konawineclub.com/r/products/lemon-hart-151-proof-rum

From bar industry people we hear that LH 151 is gone forever, but something new is coming to take it's place. DrinkupNY says that the LH 151 will be back in the fall.

Intrigue!

I tend to trust the distributors less than the bar people myself, but we will see. I suspect all will be fine, but I am glad that I horded a bit. ; - )

-Jack

On 2010-08-24 17:43, tabuzak wrote:
but I am glad that I horded a bit. ; - )
-Jack

I have hord some in my time. I think it was worth it. :)

I just ordered some El Dorado 12 yr and some of their white overproof 151 (which is not a traditional Demerara rum) from Hi Times in California. I'm going to take the advice that El Dorado offered on their facebook page and mix the 12yr & the white 151 together 50/50 when 151 demerara is called for. Has anyone else tried this yet??

That's interesting advice. Let us know what you think. Will you be able to compare it to LH 151?

My gut tells me it's just going to just be a waste of good El Dorado 12-year. I hope you prove me wrong.

Is the 151 even distilled in Guyana? The Beverage Warehouse price listing references Mexico. The cheap red labeling of the bottle is scary.

Michigan's going dry on Lemon Hart. I wouldn't call my two bottles a hoard but treasure all the same.

Nice! I have two bottles left myself and am almost afraid to open them......but they taunt me with their tasty rumness.

On 2010-08-24 22:33, JOHN-O wrote:
That's interesting advice. Let us know what you think. Will you be able to compare it to LH 151?

My gut tells me it's just going to just be a waste of good El Dorado 12-year. I hope you prove me wrong.

Is the 151 even distilled in Guyana? The Beverage Warehouse price listing references Mexico. The cheap red labeling of the bottle is scary.

John,

I just received my parcel today. The El Dorado clear 151 is indeed labelled "Product of Guyana". I'll get a chance to try this combo tonight or tomorrow and I'll let you know the results. By the way, the El Dorado 12 year is bloody fantastic! It's deep and smooth, smooth enough to drink in a snifter. I don't know if I'll be able to back to the 5 year old after this......having the 12 year old in a Navy Grog right now. Good god it's wonderful!

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2010-08-27 23:11 ]

First, sorry for not posting here more, the Ministry of Rum has kept me busier than I ever thought I could be, but about Lemon Hart.

The best information I have at this time is that Mosiaq in Canada concluded the purchase of the Lemon Hart label in February 2010 and have subsequently entered into an agreement with DDL in Guyana to buy aged product which they will bottle in Canada. So that takes care of the Canadian market. There is no agreement in place at this time for Lemon Hart to be imported to the US again, but there are discussions going on. It should be noted that the Lemon Hart brand was basically ignored in the US for the last 4 years so there are a lot of loose ends that will have to be cleaned up.

Apparently, the 151 was never sold in Canada, according to Mosaiq. In the US the product mix favors the 151. But Mosaiq has been seeing sales at 80 proof and hasn't seen enough demand, as in no requests from the liquor control boards across Canada for the 151.

To put Lemon Hart in perspective, previously it was blended with 1.5% Canadian rum and aged in Canada but the excise tax concessions, according to Mosaiq, don't favor that approach in the future. In about 1997, Lemon Hart 80proof was one of seven bottles of rum on the shelf at the biggest liquor store in the US, Sam's Wine and Spirits in Chicago. At that time the label stated 'Colored Fresh Rum.' Since that time that designation has been removed and I'm told that both the 80 proof and the 151 proof are aged rum, though both are colored with caramel.

I'll post more as soon as I have some confirmed details.

On 2010-08-27 23:09, CincyTikiCraig wrote:

On 2010-08-24 22:33, JOHN-O wrote:
That's interesting advice. Let us know what you think. Will you be able to compare it to LH 151?

My gut tells me it's just going to just be a waste of good El Dorado 12-year. I hope you prove me wrong.

Is the 151 even distilled in Guyana? The Beverage Warehouse price listing references Mexico. The cheap red labeling of the bottle is scary.

John,

I just received my parcel today. The El Dorado clear 151 is indeed labelled "Product of Guyana". I'll get a chance to try this combo tonight or tomorrow and I'll let you know the results. By the way, the El Dorado 12 year is bloody fantastic! It's deep and smooth, smooth enough to drink in a snifter. I don't know if I'll be able to back to the 5 year old after this......having the 12 year old in a Navy Grog right now. Good god it's wonderful!

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2010-08-27 23:11 ]

How did mixing it go????

On 2010-08-31 19:28, Rum guy wrote:
.....at the biggest liquor store in the US, Sam's Wine and Spirits in Chicago....

Just a slightly off-topic FYI, Sam's was sold last year to Binny's, a competitor with a bunch of stores in the Chicago area.

Sam's is gone.

Binny's took over the massive Sam's store near North Ave and Clyborn (the one referenced by Ed/Rum Guy), and have signigificantly reduced the breadth of the selection.

They now have fewer choices in all major booze categories - rum, gin, liqueurs, whiskey, etc. The wine selection is still very good, but smaller.

Sorry for not responding sooner. I did on fact make a 1934 zombie as well as a 1957 Aku-Aku Zombie last weekend using a 60/40 blend of clear El Dorado 151 and El Dorado 12yr Demerara and the results were great, much better then the Goslings 151 that I've been using since I ran out of LH151. This will be my go-to 151 sub, but I'm curious to try the blend using the 15yr El Dorado as well. BTW, the clear El Dorado does in fact state 'Product of Guyana"on it's label.

As to Sam's/Binny's; Binny's flat out sucks. They have drastically reduced Sam's spirit selections (Binny's as always been more of a wine store) and they have also drastically raised prices across the board as well, on every category. I guess that they can do that now that they have eliminated the competition. I travel to Chicago 3-4 times per year, and I always used to stock up on spirits, wine & Champagne at Sam's. Not anymore-I don't even go to Binny's, I buy what I can here at home and mail order everything else. F*ck Binny's.

On 2010-09-09 12:52, tikibars wrote:

On 2010-08-31 19:28, Rum guy wrote:
.....at the biggest liquor store in the US, Sam's Wine and Spirits in Chicago....

Just a slightly off-topic FYI, Sam's was sold last year to Binny's, a competitor with a bunch of stores in the Chicago area.

Sam's is gone.

Binny's took over the massive Sam's store near North Ave and Clyborn (the one referenced by Ed/Rum Guy), and have signigificantly reduced the breadth of the selection.

They now have fewer choices in all major booze categories - rum, gin, liqueurs, whiskey, etc. The wine selection is still very good, but smaller.

Binny's has pared down the selection a bit but reliable sources, I'm based in Chicago right now, that they are looking to rebuild the rum selection after the acquisition. As you can imagine there was a lot of stock that just wasn't worth keeping on the shelves and when the big Sam's store was bought the rum aisle had been decimated as no one wanted to spend money on stock when the store was for sale.

Here's the latest from what I consider to be reliable sources at Mosaiq and DDL. As previously mentioned in this thread, when Lemon Hart brand was owned by Pernod it was blended and bottled in the Windsor, Ontario plant. And according to Mosaiq did not contain any tax-break Canadian rum.

When I first heard about the sale to Mosaiq my concern was that the product, if ever available again, wouldn't be the same blend because DDL wouldn't allow anyone to use the Demerara Rum name on any product that wasn't bottled in Guyana. This was in response to previous problems they had experienced with misuse of their appellation. So when Mosaiq told me that they had permission to use the Demerara Rum name on the Lemon Hart rum they were going to blend and bottle, which hasn't yet begun, I was skeptical.

According to Mosaiq, and confirmed by DDL, there is a contract for DDL to provide bulk rum to Mosaiq to be blended and bottled as Lemon Hart Demerara Rum. So that's the good news for Canada. The US is a slightly more muddled story.

DDL has changed in recent years from being a bulk supplier of aged and fresh rum to a company focused on selling their El Dorado brand. I think they have done a good job of this in the past and have no reason to believe they won't continue to do a good job this in the future. In my dealings with DDL it has become obvious that they don't want to sell any brand other than El Dorado including Lemon Hart so the fact that they have contract with Mosaiq bodes well for the future of Lemon Hart.

At this point there is no US importer and that will have to be worked out with someone who is willing and able to pay almost $50 a case in Federal Excise Tax per case when the product crosses the border, compared to about half that amount for the more usual 80 proof products, plus another few thousand in miscellaneous fees, charges and stuff that you have to deal with as a spirits importer when you bring a container across an international border.

While this forum is quite vocal about their search for, and love of this rum, few other consumers really care about a product that has a relatively small market. I believe there will be some good news in the coming months but if you can find some Lemon Hart 151 you should buy it as the supply will be interrupted even if a new importer agreement was signed tomorrow.

On 2010-09-18 19:26, Rum guy wrote:
Here's the latest from what I consider to be reliable sources at Mosaiq and DDL. As previously mentioned in this thread, when Lemon Hart brand was owned by Pernod it was blended and bottled in the Windsor, Ontario plant. And according to Mosaiq did not contain any tax-break Canadian rum.

When I first heard about the sale to Mosaiq my concern was that the product, if ever available again, wouldn't be the same blend because DDL wouldn't allow anyone to use the Demerara Rum name on any product that wasn't bottled in Guyana. This was in response to previous problems they had experienced with misuse of their appellation. So when Mosaiq told me that they had permission to use the Demerara Rum name on the Lemon Hart rum they were going to blend and bottle, which hasn't yet begun, I was skeptical.

According to Mosaiq, and confirmed by DDL, there is a contract for DDL to provide bulk rum to Mosaiq to be blended and bottled as Lemon Hart Demerara Rum. So that's the good news for Canada. The US is a slightly more muddled story.

DDL has changed in recent years from being a bulk supplier of aged and fresh rum to a company focused on selling their El Dorado brand. I think they have done a good job of this in the past and have no reason to believe they won't continue to do a good job this in the future. In my dealings with DDL it has become obvious that they don't want to sell any brand other than El Dorado including Lemon Hart so the fact that they have contract with Mosaiq bodes well for the future of Lemon Hart.

At this point there is no US importer and that will have to be worked out with someone who is willing and able to pay almost $50 a case in Federal Excise Tax per case when the product crosses the border, compared to about half that amount for the more usual 80 proof products, plus another few thousand in miscellaneous fees, charges and stuff that you have to deal with as a spirits importer when you bring a container across an international border.

While this forum is quite vocal about their search for, and love of this rum, few other consumers really care about a product that has a relatively small market. I believe there will be some good news in the coming months but if you can find some Lemon Hart 151 you should buy it as the supply will be interrupted even if a new importer agreement was signed tomorrow.

Thanks for the insightful update Rum Guy. El Dorado, via updates on their Facebook page, have stated an interest in producing a genuine 151 proof demerara rum. Here in the States, El Dorado might represent our best hope of ever seeing a supply of 151 demerara returning to the market.

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2010-09-19 01:29 ]

On 2010-09-18 19:26, Rum guy wrote:
......Mosaiq told me that they had permission to use the Demerara Rum name on the Lemon Hart rum they were going to blend and bottle, which hasn't yet begun, I was skeptical.

According to Mosaiq, and confirmed by DDL, there is a contract for DDL to provide bulk rum to Mosaiq to be blended and bottled as Lemon Hart Demerara Rum. So that's the good news for Canada. The US is a slightly more muddled story.

I think they have done a good job of this in the past and have no reason to believe they won't continue to do a good job this in the future. In my dealings with DDL it has become obvious that they don't want to sell any brand other than El Dorado including Lemon Hart so the fact that they have contract with Mosaiq bodes well for the future of Lemon Hart.

At this point there is no US importer and that will have to be worked out with someone who is willing and able to pay almost $50 a case in Federal Excise Tax per case when the product crosses the border, compared to about half that amount for the more usual 80 proof products, plus another few thousand in miscellaneous fees, charges and stuff that you have to deal with as a spirits importer when you bring a container across an international border.

I believe there will be some good news in the coming months but if you can find some Lemon Hart 151 you should buy it as the supply will be interrupted even if a new importer agreement was signed tomorrow.

Thanks for the news Ed. Glad I started stocking up when Tiare questioned availability two years ago. Now I'll actually measure it out when I pour the half oz. :wink:

Cheers, :drink:
Erik the Red

On a related Lemon Hart note...I got my 2 bottles in from Hawaii a few weeks ago! First time I've ever tried Lemon Hart, and MAN it's so tasty (but packs one helluva punch!)

Had it in a Jet Pilot...and while I really enjoyed the first one, there's just too much going on flavor-wise in that drink for it to be on my "Tiki go-to" list. I also tried a Zombie (DTB recipe), but had a similar opinion...which makes sense since the ingredients are nearly identical. The $100 Mai Tai still reigns supreme!

Any other good Lemon Hart recipes that I could try?

151 Rum Swizzle -

Simple and it will "Light your fire!"