Curacoa Preferences?

I used to think that which ever brand I used didn't matter since they all taste the same and most drinks do not call for large amounts. Then I tried Senior "Curacao of Curacao" Clear Liqueur and ,at least for me, it ruined my Mai Tais. There was this undercurrent of rancid orange that threw off the drink. However I used the same curacao in a batch of margarita's and they were fantastic. I need to pick up some Bols and do more comparisons, but was curious on what others prefer.

Eric,

Senior Curaçao ruined my Mai Tais as well. Senior has a too-bright orange note, and at the same time lacks sufficient body to work in a Mai Tai. My best Mai Tai is made with Grand Marnier, or better yet, one of the Marnier knock offs, such as GranGala Orange or Gran Torres Orange Liqueur. The Orgeat that TV used in his original 1944 recipe, Garnier syrup from France (which would have been of pre-war vintage in 1944), would have contained some measure of brandy which was used as a preservative in the syrup:

http://www.cocktaildb.com/ingr_detail?id=342

Also, Gran Marnier was originally labeled as "Curaçao Marnier" when it was imported into the States, and for many years afterwards. It was the first and original Curaçao that was imported into the USA:

http://education.mhusa.com/section/1188226012656/1187801869656.htm?gw=bp

With this in mind, Grand Marnier (and it's clones) are historically (and culinarily) correct to use in a Mai Tai.

When I'm mixing up a "top shelf" Mai Tai, I use Rhum Clement Creole Shrubb: http://www.drinkupny.com/Clement_Creole_Shrubb_p/s0768.htm?utm_source=Vinquire&utm_medium=WineFeed&utm_content=Clement+Creole+Shrubb+Liqueur+DOrange&utm_campaign=base&v_traceback=c0609_2015_f0621_2254

I stick to Cointreau. At one point I may experiment with Clement, or Citronge, but for now I use Cointreau whenever something calls for triple sec, or Curacao, etc. I generally only use Grand Marnier where it's specifically indicated.

Now you know.

Anything wrong with dekruper? I like that it has no HFCS.

sometimes I use Dekuyper in maitai. sometimes i actually use triplesec (Joaquin).

I try to avoid grand marnier in cocktails bc it tastes too heavy and influences the flavor profile too much, imo.

Someone at sometime is gonna say, "WTF?"

Here's a link that's helped me

http://ohgo.sh/category/cocktails/orange-liqueur-showdown/

Great article!! Thanks!!

On 2011-06-24 08:35, jingleheimerschmidt wrote:
Someone at sometime is gonna say, "WTF?"

Here's a link that's helped me

http://ohgo.sh/category/cocktails/orange-liqueur-showdown/

On 2011-06-24 08:43, aloha.taboo wrote:
Great article!! Thanks!!

You can always get lost in here, too.

Mai Tai: a component study in mixology
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=20200&forum=10&start=45&hilite=mai%20tai

Martiki said this:

3. Curacao- Having just gone to a tasting with the importer of Senior Curacao, and trying all of the US available products, I do have some fresh thoughts on this.

And there are important differences between all those products listed by C&A- they are not interchangeable.

There is only one real Curacao in the world, and that is Senior & Co. Curacao of Curacao. They own the last remaining curacao orange groves on earth, and still produce it today with these oranges. It is, I think, wonderful. In the US, you can get the clear, blue and orange varieties. The spirit is naturally clear- the rest are all just food coloring. I think it's great that we can get the clear in the US now- good news Jabbo! The Jab has said that the Senior & Co. brand is too overpowering in the Mai Tai's original ratios, and I'm inclined to agree. I'd cut it back a touch and increase the simple syrup to taste.

As for the other Curacaos on the market, Marie Brizzard is excellent and my personal favorite after the Senior. I think it has a lot of character. After that, the DeKuyper. (Vic invented the Mai Tai with DeKuyper, by the way, but it was the original Dutch version, and probably made with real oranges and no HFCS. DeKuyper is now made in the states under license)

Cointreau and Grand Marnier are different spirits entirely, and at 80 proof, will impart a different character/sweetness level on your Mai Tai than 60-62 proof Curacao. They are made with real orange, however, which is always a plus.

99.999% of Triple Sec is unusable trash. It is 50 proof chemicals and HFCS and should be avoided. Luxardo does make a triple sec with real oranges, but it is more like Cointreau.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree that Senior Curacao makes an inferior Mai Tai. I kind of hate to write this as, like Donn Beach, I don't like to reveal my secrets, but here is my Ultimate Mai Tai and it uses Senior Curacao. It is the Trader Vic recipe as described in Sippin' Safari (Orgeat and Simple Syrup increased to 3/8oz vs. 1/2oz) and I've only specified the specific ingredients. Some of these ingredients are really hard to get but luckily I live in the San Francisco bay area so they are only hard to get.

1oz freshly squeezed lime juice
1oz Appleton Estate Extra Rum (12 year)
1oz Saint James Royal Amber Rum
1/2oz Senior Curacao
3/8oz Trader Tiki Orgeat
3/8oz Small Hand Foods Gum Syrup

Garnish with spent lime shell, mint, cherry and pineapple

I just tried substituting 1/2 oz Grand Marnier for the Senior Curacao and tasted them side by side (see picture below). I've previously tried Grand Marnier knowing that it is a Curacao (before I found a source for Senior Curacao), and my impressions were the same as before, it makes for a very boring Mai Tai! The Grand Marnier version is very bland, less fruity, less tart and a one dimensional flavor profile. The Senior version has a broad spectrum of flavors and after tastes which makes it a more interesting drink to me. My guess is that you must be using more than 1/2oz of Grand Marnier to make it interesting. As always tastes are an individual preference and you know what you like. I'm not saying that you're wrong but we certainly are different! After two Mai Tai's I feel like doing more research!

Wow, so many options! I'm curious about the Clement but I haven't seen it around here in a while. I've used Grand Marnier in other drinks before, but thought it might be a tad too hardy for a Mai Tai,but now I'm going to mix up a few tonight and give it a try.Also,I will definitely keep triple sec away from my drinks. This just highlights that every detail counts when mixing up a vacation in a glass.

The Marnier knockoffs, particularly Stock's GranGala, aren't as heavy as Grand Marnier and have brighter orange flavors. To each his own, but for me, Gran Gala makes a hell of a Mai Tai. Here's my go-to recipe:

1oz Lime Juice
.5oz Teisseire Orgeat
.5oz GranGala
1oz Appleton Reserve
1oz LaFavorite Vieux(or St James Extra Old)

Mahalo,

Craig

On 2011-06-24 08:35, jingleheimerschmidt wrote:
Someone at sometime is gonna say, "WTF?"

Here's a link that's helped me

http://ohgo.sh/category/cocktails/orange-liqueur-showdown/

WTF indeed. If you don't like Senior Curacao Mai Tai's, you simply don't like Mai Tai's.

I hafta be on the side of TropicDrinkBoy's opinion on the Senior Curaçao of Curaçao is the one and only.

Cognac does not belong in a Mai Tai, it may be tasty but call it something else, you've just created a fabulous new drink.

Curacao has been discussed here before:
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=18559&forum=10&start=0

I wonder if anyone has tried the Meagher's Grand Curacao and how they feel it stacks up to others? It might only be available up in the Great White North.

FWIW, when you watch the video Martin Cate did on the Mai Tai for chow.com, he uses Senior Curacao. (I'll stick to Cointreau unless and until someone gives me a freebie bottle of Senior, and then only to experiment.)

jokeiii, like you, Cointreau is my choice for Mai Tais. I prefer it for Margaritas as well, and pretty much anything where an orange liqueur is called for. It's an expensive preference, however.

-Tom

Cointreau is markedly "boozier" than Senior Curaçao.
The clear variety of Senior Curaçao is free from the food coloring aftertaste.

On 2011-06-26 05:21, TikiTomD wrote:
jokeiii, like you, Cointreau is my choice for Mai Tais. I prefer it for Margaritas as well, and pretty much anything where an orange liqueur is called for. It's an expensive preference, however.

Tom, fortunately for me, my local Costco carries Cointreau so it's not painfully expensive -- agreed on the use in margaritas -- at +/-$29.99 for the 1L.

I'll eventually try out the Citronge and Clement and see how they compare, but for right now, it's my go-to.

On 2011-06-24 18:14, TropicDrinkBoy wrote:
1oz freshly squeezed lime juice
1oz Appleton Estate Extra Rum (12 year)
1oz Saint James Royal Amber Rum
1/2oz Senior Curacao
3/8oz Trader Tiki Orgeat
3/8oz Small Hand Foods Gum Syrup

I prefer Rhum Clement VSOP over the 3 varieties Saint James, but other than that I use the same ingredients for my ideal Mai Tai. (Sadly SHF syrups are no longer sold in MA so if I want them I have to order direct. I've been 'slumming' with Scrappy's instead which is also good but SHF is slightly better IMO.)

On 2011-06-25 03:13, Sparkle Mark wrote:
I hafta be on the side of TropicDrinkBoy's opinion on the Senior Curaçao of Curaçao is the one and only.

Cognac does not belong in a Mai Tai, it may be tasty but call it something else, you've just created a fabulous new drink.

Tell that to Trader Vic. He used deKuyper. Senior is thin and lacks body to me, Clément's Creole Shrubb has more body and yield a better viscosity in the final cocktail, and is my fall back if i'm out of GranGala. And you do realize that the original Garnier Orgeat that Vic used in his Mai Tai contained brandy, no?

[ Edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2011-06-26 19:31 ]

I've scrapped triple sec in my margaritas altogether and use agave syrup in its place.

Someone gave me a bottle of Patron Citronge orange liquer, and it does a fine job in a Mai Tai.

I haven't had a chance to pick up Cointreau or a Grand Marnier variation but I gave Senior another go and it just doesn't do it for me. Personal taste is often subjective so in a few months I'll try it again.Now off to the liquor store!

On 2011-06-27 06:59, Kill Devil wrote:
Someone gave me a bottle of Patron Citronge orange liquer, and it does a fine job in a Mai Tai.

Have you tried it in other things? (Margaritas, say.)

On 2011-06-28 09:49, jokeiii wrote:

On 2011-06-27 06:59, Kill Devil wrote:
Someone gave me a bottle of Patron Citronge orange liquer, and it does a fine job in a Mai Tai.

Have you tried it in other things? (Margaritas, say.)

I thought it tasted like orange floor cleaner in everything I put it in. Again, taste is subjective. I bought it off of this beautiful Mexican woman and couldn't say "no." I was in the middle of nowhere and needed curacao for a mai tai. That was all she had. I poured it down the drain after two cocktails.

When a recipe calls for "Orange Curacao" I use Senior, none other. I prefer it above any other I've tried - I don't substitute other orange liqueur when Curacao is called for.

On 2011-06-28 14:22, GentleHangman wrote:
When a recipe calls for "Orange Curacao" I use Senior, none other. I prefer it above any other I've tried - I don't substitute other orange liqueur when Curacao is called for.

Agreed. The Bols and DeKuyper brands always tasted a bit... chemically, for my tastes. I see what others are saying about Seniors tasting a bit "thin" (it's as good a word as any), but the actual aroma of the orange oil from the rinds of the fruit are what save it. It's so clean. I don't really know how else to put it. Other than that I actually found that Grand Marnier made for a better mai tai than Cointreau, but again, everyone has their own preferences. :wink:

Nobody's said anything about Marie Brizzard. Well?

Don't make me go searching old threads! :D

whether it be curacao or triple sec, it should be seen but not heard...

On 2011-06-26 21:30, thePorpoise wrote:
I've scrapped triple sec in my margaritas altogether and use agave syrup in its place.

Hmmm... fwiw...

Agave syrup is a sweetener. Use it in Margaritas and other drinks.

Triple Sec is an orange liqueur. It is not a sweetener. It is not to be substituted in a drink with a sweetener.

And yes, it is to be heard. The flavor of a good margarita has a hint of orange. It is why sometimes orange slices are placed in the margarita. Remove it and you have a Tequila Daisy or something like it, especially if you use lemons instead of lime for your margaritas.

Has anybody tried the santa teresa Rhum orange liqueur as i like it in a mai tai (its also on offer in waitrose supermarkets over here in England!)

Agave syrup is a sweetener. Use it in Margaritas and other drinks.

Triple Sec is an orange liqueur. It is not a sweetener.

well aware. I make the substitution to enhance the agave flavor of the drink, given that tequila is distilled from agave, and i prefer it that way. this has been a trend for several years now in some quarters re the margarita.

On 2011-06-29 10:23, thePorpoise wrote:

Agave syrup is a sweetener. Use it in Margaritas and other drinks.

Triple Sec is an orange liqueur. It is not a sweetener.

well aware. I make the substitution to enhance the agave flavor of the drink, given that tequila is distilled from agave, and i prefer it that way. this has been a trend for several years now in some quarters re the margarita.

Yeah I have noticed that too. Lots of recipes coming out lately, especially from corporate sources, that totally ignore any mention of triple sec, but now always include some sort of agave sweetener, interesting.

On 2011-06-28 16:15, jingleheimerschmidt wrote:
Nobody's said anything about Marie Brizzard. Well?

Don't make me go searching old threads! :D

LOL I haven't been able to find it out here. It was easy enough to get back in California, but so was Seniors, so I never even bought a bottle of Marie Brizzard. Trust me, the minute I find a liquor store that carries anything other than Bols or Dekuyper, I'm buying whatever it is. :wink:

Yeah I have noticed that too. Lots of recipes coming out lately, especially from corporate sources, that totally ignore any mention of triple sec, but now always include some sort of agave sweetener, interesting.

Agave sweetener has been the "in" thing recently. However, some studies show it to be just as bad as HFCS.

On 2011-06-30 20:19, jingleheimerschmidt wrote:

Yeah I have noticed that too. Lots of recipes coming out lately, especially from corporate sources, that totally ignore any mention of triple sec, but now always include some sort of agave sweetener, interesting.

Agave sweetener has been the "in" thing recently. However, some studies show it to be just as bad as HFCS.

It's true that there is a lot of "bad" agave nectar out there. The only source I've found of GOOD agave nectar is from here:
http://www.globalgoods.com/agavenectar.html

And for the record, I too prefer my margaritas with agave nectar instead of triple sec.

Thanks to some suggestion here, I used Grand Gala in place of the Senior and the difference was severe. The Gala for me is the better choice.Not to sweet and much more pleasant then the odd aftertaste the Senior contains. That coupled with a better quality of limes and the batch I made over the weekend were among the best I've made yet.I did try the Senior in a small test with a couple of drink experiments and found it to be a nice addition. So the Senior is not a bad product, but it needs to stay away from my mai tais. Thanks for the help!

I finally bought a bottle of Senior to try for myself. My normal go-to curaçao choices are Clement Creole Shrubb and Gran Gala. I just did a taste test with Senior against the Shrubb (out of gran gala) and was pleasantly surprised. Like others have said, the body of the Senior is a bit thinner than the Shrubb, but the I certainly got an orange flavor. I think I'd cut the amount back just a bit from the 0.5 oz in my next batch so I can taste the rum a bit more but I certainly have no complaints.

What a terrible chore...tweaking Mai tai recipes to compare ingredients.

Kevin

What a terrible chore...tweaking Mai tai recipes to compare ingredients.

Indeed! I have sacrificed the better portion of many evenings so that others may learn from my mistakes and triumphs. :D

Anyhow, a quick taste comparison with a few neighborly guinea pigs resulted in this ranking:

mai tai with creole shrubb
mai tai with senor curacao
mai tai with cointreau

Interesting, the cointreau was unanimously dead last. Some preferred the bitterness and dryness of the curacao more. The shrubb was thought to bring out a more pronounced (but not overpowering) orange flavor and also boost up the mid range rums I was using. They really thought I was using better rums. HA!

Surprisingly, a blind taste of the liqueurs on their own favored senor curacao over the creole shrubb. The shrubb "smelled like orange tequila". Whatever! It apparently made a better tasting mai tai.

Anyhow, I will never use cointreau for mai tais but I would not mind using either of the other orange liqueurs. The Senor is about $10 cheaper.

Due to your research I will definitelly give the creole shrubb a try!