mai tai help - bevmo

I'd like to make the best possible classic Trader Vics 1944 Mai Tai from ingredients I can get from the inventory at my local BevMo Van Nuys California store. As a non-mixologist the many brand options for all of the components, from rums to orange curacao is overwhelming. I realize that BevMo won't have the best of the best, but I'd like to get input on the best of what I can get here. Any kind soul willing to take a look at the site and help me with a shopping list for Van Nuys, CA?

http://www.bevmo.com/misc/storelocator.aspx

thanks!

Curacao:

Marie Brizard and Curacao Curacao are bot usually available at BevMo and both are acceptable.

Orgeat:

probably only Trader Vics and Torani will be available at BevMo. Between the two of them, get the Vic's. DO NOT use the Torani sugar free almond syrup, it will ruin your Mai Tai.

Rum:

You want a good aged rum, preferably from Martinique or Barbados. St. James h'Or dage is probably the best. BevMo may or may not have it. Mount Gay Sugar Cane (which BevMo likely will not have) or Mount Gay Extra Old (which it probably will) are good alternate choices. NOT Mount Gay Eclipse. Do not use any Bacardi or spiced rum, either. I have never used any of the Martinque agricole rums in a Mai Tai, so I cannot comment on those. From what I have tasted of them, I would stick with aged, fuller bodied rums than the agricole rums.

For the dark rum, Coruba is fine. No not use Myers's.

If you want a better selection of rums than you will get at BevMo, try Wine and Liquor Depot. It is also in Van Nuys, on Saticoy near Balboa.

[ Edited by: PiPhiRho 2012-07-18 20:00 ]

Try Total Wine & More in Northridge sometime. According to their website that location has 339 different kinds of rum. You can order it online and go pick it up.

I checked over their inventory. Here's what I would buy:

Barbancourt Rhum 5 Star
Appleton Estate Reserve Rum
Grand Marnier
Torani Orgeat Syrup

If you don't mind spending a little extra, I'd buy Appleton Estate Extra (12 Year) instead of the Reserve.

There's not a great selection of orange liqueurs, so I'd go with Grand Marnier. Grand Marnier is a type of orange curacao, but it's a little sweeter than most, so I'd eliminate the addition of simple syrup to the cocktail.

If they had the Pierre Ferrand Orange Curacao in stock (which they don't currently), I'd probably buy that instead (and probably supplement it with a little simple syrup).

You'll also need some limes to squeeze.

These ingredients will make you a very tasty drink without breaking the bank.

Many thanks for all of the help. Here is what I ended up with from Wine and Liquor Depot, Van Nuys:

Barbancourt Rhum 5 Star (8 year)
Appleton Estate Extra
Senior Curacao Orange
Trader Vics Orgeat Syrup
Trader Vics Rock Candy Syrup

• fresh limes and mint

Any further mix advice with these components would be most welcome.

Enough already . . . DRINK!

On 2012-07-20 16:27, mcmtiki wrote:
...
Trader Vics Orgeat Syrup
Trader Vics Rock Candy Syrup

Any further mix advice with these components would be most welcome.

Yummy!

I would make one with all the stuff listed.

I would then make a second one and slightly overpour the orgeat and skip the Rock Candy Syrup. The TV Orgeat is already overly sweet in my opinion, but I admit to liking my drinks to lean towards the tart side.

How was it?????

Came out well -- thanks all for the tips. I will try nixing the rock candy next time out. In general, I think something was a bit off; mainly getting the balance of lime "just" right.

I've still never had a real 1945 Mai Tai from Trader Vics, which I hope to do someday soon. Also, a Navy Grog. If cabs weren't so expensive is L.A. I would not have this problem.

[ Edited by: mcmtiki 2012-07-23 19:43 ]

On 2012-07-23 19:09, mcmtiki wrote:
In general, I think something was a bit off; mainly getting the balance of lime "just" right.

Did you use "juice of 1 lime"? Remember, Vic was most likely using a bartender's (key) lime rather than the big lime that's usually found in grocery stores.

On 2012-07-23 19:09, mcmtiki wrote:
... mainly getting the balance of lime "just" right.

Based on your posted ingredients I would suggest 3/4 ounce of lime juice. And, oh drats, you are going to have to try making several each with a bit more or less lime till you find your perfect balance.

And drop the spent shell into the glass when you pour. It only adds a hint to the final drink, but sometimes a hint of something is the difference between an OK drink and a WOW drink.

I've still never had a real 1945 Mai Tai from Trader Vics, which I hope to do someday soon.

You will most likely find yourself disappointed.

I recently went to Trader Vic's downtown and I had 4 drinks. All of them were way too sweet and syrupy for my taste. I am going to try the one in Beverly Hills next month, I hope it is better. Thumbs down on all Trader Vic's drinks from me. I am sure that they are far from the original recipes at this point though.

The Mai Tais at Don the Beachcomber in Huntington (or Seal) Beach are my favorite. That is the drink I try to model my Mai Tais after.

I love Bharbancourt in my Mai Tai. I want to find better curacao and oregeat though as Bev Mo is mainly my only option in San Diego.

[ Edited by: lunavideogames 2012-07-24 14:30 ]

Special Ordering Rum for tiki drinks is pretty par for the course, that being said

If you are in Cali you should be able to get the best stuff very easily, you should not have to skimp or go with substandard ingredients - most of the places I special order from are in Cali

Cask and KL Wines will ship liquor online will orders in state, so you should have no issues there

Get Small Hand Foods Orgeat - best stuff you can buy other than making it yourself
Also you can get Appleton v/x rum at Bevmo and order the Rhum Clemente VSOP from Cask or KL Wines

You already have Curaco of Curaco orange so you are all set

I generally use .5 oz or HALF a lime for my mai tai's and I toss a bit of extra orgeat in there, and you should be using 1:1 Simple Syrup not Rock Syrup in the drink

For a Navy Grog which is my favorite drink my recipe is:

1oz Flor de Cana 4 year

1oz El Dorado 12 year OR Lemon Hart 80 proof (the LH is slightly better but not avaliable in the US so it is a lot of work to de-proof the 151)

1oz Coruba - I special order mine from Wine Chateau

.5oz lime juice (plus a couple drops more,but not near the .75 that is recommended)

.75oz grapefruit juice (fresh squeezed is better but if not ocean spray you can make do - if you are using fresh marsh grapefruits you will want to up the clover honey syrup a dash possibly or just use a rock candy swizzle for garnish to add the extra sweetness)

.5oz 2:1 Clover Honey Syrup (2 cups of honey to one cup of water) OR you can use 1 oz of 1:1 but the thicker syrup gives the drink a better mouthfeel and it also will not go bad as quickly due to the higher sugar concentration)

.25oz St. Elizabeth All Spice Dram - go easy with this stuff, it is VERY potent, do not overpour it
Mint Garnish

By searching the list and the web it seems that Trader Vic's no longer sells a Navy Grog mix nor a Navy Grog concentrate -- is that true?

On 2012-07-30 18:39, mcmtiki wrote:
By searching the list and the web it seems that Trader Vic's no longer sells a Navy Grog mix nor a Navy Grog concentrate -- is that true?

Not sure. The TV web store shows that its web site is currently down for maintenance. I'd check back in a week or two,

https://shoptradervics.com/

[ Edited by: arriano 2012-07-31 10:14 ]

Just e-mailed Trader Vic's HQ and got a very swift, friendly reply. In a nutshell: "Navy Grog Mix is not currently available and the Concentrate is for Trader Vic’s restaurants only."

I bought a bottle of the Navy Grog Mix once, and regretted wasting my $$ on it. BLECH!

At this point, I wouldn't buy any of the Trader Vic's-branded products. They're full of HFCS and God knows what else.

On 2012-07-24 14:27, lunavideogames wrote:
I recently went to Trader Vic's downtown and I had 4 drinks. All of them were way too sweet and syrupy for my taste. I am going to try the one in Beverly Hills next month, I hope it is better. Thumbs down on all Trader Vic's drinks from me. I am sure that they are far from the original recipes at this point though.

Then I'm sorry, but the only way to rectify this problem will be flying to Tokyo to have a Mai Tai at the Trader Vic's there. I wish there was an easier way to get you a good TV Mai Tai but this is the only way.

I came across this recipe in a 1969 book called the amateur bartenders Hawaiian friend,it's called a zombie sleepwalker-1oz dark rum-1oz light rum-1oz Jamaican rum-4 dashes cherry brandy- 4 dashes apricot brandy-1 dash papaya juice- juice of half lime-serve over ice with your favorite fruit garnish- flame with 151 If you dare-ENJOY

Next time I am in Tokyo I'll have to try one!

Regarding the Trader Vic's Navy Grog mix...A little over a year ago I ran across a post on sloshed.com detailing their attempts to recreate a Tiki Puka Puka from the published Trader Vic's recipe which calls for 3 ounces of said Navy Grog mix. To replicate the mix, they took to searching the internet. That led to a post by PiPhiRho here on Tiki Central and were inspired to create their version of the Navy Grog mix.

Which is just a long way of saying that one answer to Trader Vic's Navy Grog mix is right here on Tiki Central, so long as you're ok with the DIY method. Which, by the way, is totally worth it. I make mine with a bit of cardamom included and overall it's pretty darn close to Trader Vic's mix.

Mahalo to PiPhiRho for the original post detailing the DIY method!

kevin

Make it the way the experts do it.. Just be sure you're not doing it all wrong..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZUYP1gn-fY&list=FL-iRLqClVLzc7iImRJhrbDA&index=33&feature=plpp_video

Yeah the TV mix they use in house is not what they sell online

If you are ONLY trying to make the Navy Grog, the recipe I posted above will taste almost identical to the Navy Grog at TV and it uses better ingredients

One of my other fav's is the Puka Puka - the Puka Puka in the Beachbum book does not taste the same, so you probably have to get friendly with your local TV bartender or break out the chemistry set and get to work :)

I'd like some help to improve my Mai Tai. Somehow, the magic isn't quite there. Here's what I have--

Barbancourt Rhum 5 Star (8 year)
Appleton Estate Extra
Senior Curacao Orange
Torani Orgeat
Stirrings Simple Syrup
Lime

I have tried other orgeat, which to me is not so much the problem here, but I am open to suggestions. Mainly, I'm thinking I need to maybe go higher top shelf in one of the key ingredients. Is there a curacao or a rum I can update (swap for) to take this to the next level? I wondering if the Barbancourt is the weak link?

Many thanks.

Barbancourt is an awesome rum for Mai Tais in my opinion, and you can get the $50 bottle of 15 year if you want to do that. Torani Orgeat is your weakest link. If you can find Finest Call (which they have had at BevMo, but I don't see anymore), it would be superior to Torani and TV, but Trader Vic's is way better than Torani. Torani is a flavoring for coffees and not meant for drinks. It overpowers the flavor even with a half shot or less making it taste too rich. Or there are threads to make your own Orgeat, which would be the best option.

Get Grand Marnier instead of Curacao. These are more costly, but make a HUGE difference. You can also get the more expensive Appleton too. Wouldn't hurt.

But yeah, I feel like the Torani is your biggest issue for flavor.

I like to put a mint leaf into the shaker when I shake it up too. Adds just a little flavor.

EDIT - Oops, I meant substitute Grand Marnier for Curacao, not Orgeat.

[ Edited by: lunavideogames 2013-07-29 16:03 ]

And I don't use any simple syrup, sweet enough already.

Torani syrup is definitely the weakest link. Reather than trading up to another weak link with Finest Call or Fee Bros. orgeat, roll up your sleeves and make your own. Well worth the effort.

I wish I had ready access to Senior Curacao. I may give Ferrand Dry Curacao a try sometime soon since that seems to be a product people are liking.

On 2013-07-29 15:14, lunavideogames wrote:
Barbancourt is an awesome rum for Mai Tais in my opinion, and you can get the $50 bottle of 15 year if you want to do that. Torani Orgeat is your weakest link. If you can find Finest Call (which they have had at BevMo, but I don't see anymore), it would be superior to Torani and TV, but Trader Vic's is way better than Torani. Torani is a flavoring for coffees and not meant for drinks. It overpowers the flavor even with a half shot or less making it taste too rich. Or there are threads to make your own Orgeat, which would be the best option.

Get Grand Marnier instead of Orgeat. These are more costly, but make a HUGE difference. You can also get the more expensive Appleton too. Wouldn't hurt.

But yeah, I feel like the Torani is your biggest issue for flavor.

I like to put a mint leaf into the shaker when I shake it up too. Adds just a little flavor.

I agree on the Barbancourt, I am a fan of the "Monin" brand of syrups they tend to be sweet, but they only use natural sugar
and the Orgeat is better then most store bought brands.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2013-07-29 15:56 ]

Your spirits are fine. Better than those used in most bars. I doubt you'd notice much difference by going higher shelf. It's definitely not necessary.

Your could improve the Orgeat, though, for sure. If you don't want to make your own, Small Hand Foods or BG Reynolds are the best. (You won't find them at BevMo, unfortunately.)

The other possibility is the recipe. You might need to adjust it to better suit your palate. More lime, less lime, more simple, etc.

On 2013-07-29 17:55, djmont wrote:
Small Hand Foods or BG Reynolds are the best. (You won't find them at BevMo, unfortunately.)

I gotta second the BG Reynolds for sure! That's the best, most consistent stuff in my opinion. The only downside is that all the syrups tend to be made with natural fruits etc, which is good but will actually result in molding if you don't keep it refrigerated (I found out the hard way.) If you don't think you'll be using a lot of it, add no more than .5 oz of vodka into it and shake well. That'll help keep it fresh longer and the advice comes straight from Blair himself.

I think this is a great post :)

Here's my blueprint for making any drink:

Measure everything the first few times. Use good ingredients, if you dont have personal knowledge, use what has a good reputation. Tweak the ingredients again & again. Change the rums. When you think you make a good one, make one for a friend or go to a reputable bar & order one.

That last bit is really key for me - you can gauge how good your drink is & see what they do differently.

In my mai tais I usually use Monin Orgeat, Monin Gomme & Cointreau - they don't overpower the rest of the drink but are definitely there. Therefore, as intended, the main variable is the rum :)

On 2013-07-29 14:44, mcmtiki wrote:
I'd like some help to improve my Mai Tai. Somehow, the magic isn't quite there. I wondering if the... is the weak link?

I think this falls under the 'Tweak the ingredients again & again'. Add a bit more of this, add a bit less of that, change this, change that, etc etc.

In tiki drinks most of the ingredients are really important, I wouldn't hesitate to experiment :)

You should buy another Orgeat if you think you need it, it can make a big difference.

Homemaking isnt as hard as you think:
http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2011/11/diy-vs-buy-should-you-make-your-own-orgeat-syrup-cocktails-tiki-drinks.html

Im a recent 'homemade' convert, my pimento dram is definite step up from Bitter Truths. Make a 2 / 3 oz tester first before you make litres.

I would advise more purchases & experimentation... which means drinks :) Cheers!

[ Edited by: AdOrAdam 2013-07-30 09:27 ]

Thanks for the advice. Took an hour round trip drive to pick up a bottle of Small Hands orgeat. Made a big difference, along with some Arrowhead premium ice, crushed.

[ Edited by: mcmtiki 2013-08-03 21:54 ]

On 2013-08-03 21:53, mcmtiki wrote:
Thanks for the advice. Took an hour round trip drive to pick up a bottle of Small Hands orgeat. Made a big difference

People can tell you 'this definitely makes a difference' but until you try it you dont know if you like it :) If I have 2 versions of the same liqour / syrup 1st thing I do is try one then the other to find the best, it varies drink to drink!

I prefer making my mai tais with straight VX (after trying as many variations as I could including using Appleton 12).

I saw this post:

http://drinksahoy.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/rum-diary-mai-tais-appleton-rum-tasting.html

Yesterday I got a bottle of Appleton 8 (aka Appleton Reserve) to try - I'm looking forward to it & will report back!

Edit: Yes the Appleton Reserve 8 makes a good mai tai on its own!

I also tried a Ti Punch with Trois Rivieres Blanc - very funky :) This is only my second bottle of rhum agricole, after Saint James Amber. I had almost dismissed rhum agricole ~ maybe I just don't like Saint James Amber much(?)

The funk of the Trois Rivieres Blanc is similar to a Jamaican rum. I can feel some experimentation coming on :wink:

[ Edited by: AdOrAdam 2013-08-04 15:39 ]

So to keep the experimentation going, I'd like to swap out one of the rums from below. Any suggestions? I'd also like to come up with a better off-the-shelf Rock Candy sub. The stirrings is very meh, bu I'm too lazy and too busy to produce any DIY concoction.

Also, the designated drivers, any virgin mai tai suggestions?

Barbancourt Rhum 5 Star (8 year)
Appleton Estate Extra
Senior Curacao Orange
Samll Hands Orgeat
Stirrings Simple Syrup
Lime