question for new or recent parents - baring my soul

Aloha all,

as the proud daddy of now 8-month old Oliver, I just wondered if anyone else wanted to weigh in on the subject of "Damn I miss my friends, but I feel so guilty when I see them and come home a wee bit tiddly even".

How was this dealt with in your case? Mrs. emspace seems content to spend all her time with baby and never see her friends no mo', but I am hankering to occasionally tie one on with the boys, no more than once a month MAX. But I have been given shit unlimited about irreponsible-daddy behavior. I am NOT looking for a marriage counsellor, just hoping someone could relate their own experiences. Is it wise to wait at least a couple of years till Ollie has more autonomy and requires less of Mom's time and energy so she feels no resentment?

Should I tell all my good old friends "I eschew alcohol now, yessir, cuz that's the only path to responsible daddyhood!" and find a bunch of pickle-up-arse daddies to hang out with? BTW, I have never done anything really stupid while under the influence. I am a happy, friendly drinker, and my friends and I value each others' company and the fun and conversational stimulation the good fellowship of booze can bring. But Mrs. emspace seems to have developed an alcohol phobia since becoming a mother.

All advice, anecdotes, and further pushing of my already jammed guilt buttons warmly welcomed.

:) em.

P.S. one of said friends is the one who wants to run an event at the Waldorf rooms, and I know he is terribly dismayed I haven't given any time or effort to helping him. I expect him to give up on the idea as a result.

I haven't had that much of a problem. I have a 2 year old and an 8 month old. My wife and I work different schedules. I usually go out after Ms TG gets home from work on either a Fri or Sat for a few hours. You need to get out every once and a while. That doesn't make you a bad parent. If not you start talking in the Dr. Sueuss pantometer. At least if found myself talking and cursing to myself that way :) Teaching your kids how to roll cigarettes may make you as bad parent!

[ Edited by: Turbogod on 2004-01-02 16:32 ]

Its all about equal time. If you and your wife enjoyed doing things together before the baby was born then you need to include your wife in mutual activities while your child is at a baby sitter.

If you did guys night and girls night before the baby then its easier. One babysits while the other goes out.

I found that my spouse didn't have a problem with me going out once in a while so long as she got her time too.

The best thing about having an infant at home is that once they are asleep you wouldn't have been spending any quality time with them anyway. Daylight is what its all about when you have small kids at home. If you came home at 9:30pm vs 1 am they wouldn't know the difference.

You should definitely be bale to go out with the boys once a month or even once ever 2 weeks for that matter. And suggest she go out with the girls too. Surely she hasn't lost interest in that?

You need to keep your sanity and blow off a bot of steam once in a while.

I had the ame dilemma when I got married, as Mr Tikifish doesn't like bars, so we just had to agree that I get a girls night out every once ina while. Doesn't stop me from feeling a bit guilty though, for tearing up the town when he's at home....

Wait until you hit that morning after and you feel like you must be the worst parent ever! Urgh! The guilt pains. Then you get over it. You have your responsibilities, and trust yourself, you'll hold them up. But you are on the verge of what will be decades of weighing your own life versus the child's. At this stage you are 100% into baby. Likely you are sometimes scared to leave them in a room alone, etc. It will ease up and new things will worry you. Likely, until they are near 3, you'll do heavy baby time. Don't beat yourself up over some fun. you'll be good anyway. If you are lucky enough to have grandparents nearby, start leaning on them. They would love to help. They will be life savers in the future.

On 2004-01-02 19:06, Swanky wrote:
Wait until you hit that morning after and you feel like you must be the worst parent ever!

Swanky, been there. But I like the idea of getting over it. I've just got to bring Mrs. emspace around to understanding how badly I miss this once-frequent form of social interaction. Not planning to get maimed every other weekend like I did when I was a reckless young person, just don't want to give up my fun altogether. This weekend she already has at least 2 and possibly 3 social interactions with her friends and family planned (for all of us), having just done nine days with the in-laws over Chrismtas, so I think it's a very good time to discuss it.

Thanks all for your very thoughtful input,

aloha,
em.

We got an 8 month old here. I am in the opposite situation. I was never a big drinker. Having a baby is what ended my "crazy girlfriend's" hard drinking and wildness (AlnShely can verify that!!).

I missed the annual phlocking (Buffett concert) but I don't plan on remaining "dry" forever. The first couple of years you don't really want other people taking care of your baby. Quite frankly the hours a baby keeps are not compatiable with maintaining a wild adult social life. I find myself socializing more with the family units, a novel concept for me.

My bro, his wife & 15 month old son were in town for the last week. New Years was relatively mild, but last night they dropped off the little one with Grandma and a bunch of us all went out to the local "almost tiki" bar, Waves. We were out for a good number of hours, but it gave good grandma/grandson bonding time... and much needed stress relief to my bro. I think if you isolate yourself or put on blinders and only have one dimension to your life, you become resentful after a while. Adults need human contact with other adults. Otherwise the only thing you'll be able to relate to is Blues' Clues (not that there's anything wrong with that)

-Z

Is your wife still breastfeeding? Maybe that is why she won't go out drinking-because she can't? I know that if I can't drink, the last place I want to be is with a bunch of drunks.
How about a game night at your home? She'll be close to baby. We recently played a game called Apples to Apples and a simple gambling game called LCR. Sequence is a favorite too. My family is big on games. When you have a group of fun people together playing a fun game you really don't need alcohol. But...even if she is breastfeeding she can have a glass of wine or a beer. A little goes a long way when you've been dry for over a year!

I say do things together to start with, she'll want her time away soon enough and then, you can have your guy's night's out. As a single Mom from the birth of my son, I know I would have loved someone giving me a free night out once in a while. It's also good for both of you to be away for short periods, it'll help in the long run with independance and starting school.
Good luck, it get's easier, really!

I'm sending one out into the world this year. Hey, she's already 9 and needs to make her own way!

I mean uhhh... 19.

I have a smarmy social theory that states something like:

Kids used to help on the farm and to do labor and work around the house, etc. - they were often ignored and told to shut up and grow up and all that. Generally speaking, of course.

Then kids became the center of the home's universe. They were told to speak up and help "raise themselves" and have been marketed to incessantly by the soulless commercial hordes so that they all have to fit in some niche - nice and tidy for the demographics. The parents don't know anything. Kids are all in all.

My theory is that there must be some sort of balance in there between sweat shops and never having sweated at all.

I will do whatever it takes to assist my daughter and have always done that.
But I could never allow her life to run mine over. No matter how hard the push was to make this so.

The theory ends up saying that unless everyone is happy in a household then no one is happy. That includes adults, too.

I usually punctuate bombastic pronouncements like this by throwing a half full mug at her and screaming for her to mix me another zombie or else.

Let Dr. Phil dress THAT little manuever up in a cardigan.

(I'm kidding, of course - I'd never waste half a zombie)

Aloha all,

thanks again for all the input. The one thing I think several of you missed is that although Mrs. emspace seems unwilling to part from Ollie for more than the time it takes to take a pee, she still seems to resent MY going out. So I am kind of stuck as far as the give-and-take aspect.

Pablus, I like your philosophy! I mean, I just had to agree to give up the Xmas money my Mom sent me to put in the digital video camera fund (now swallowed up), something I really didn't want to do as I distinctly remember there was no such thing as a video camera when I was little. We had a B&W Brownie followed by a color Instamatic for purposes of recording my and my brother's childhood, yet somehow I don't feel deprived. Our priorities are, pardon my French, fucked these days. I do NOT want to watch Ollie grow up through a viewfinder. I have been observing Mrs. emspace's two nephews for the last few years wallowing in an ever-higher mountain of plastic CRAP that they've lost interest in by the end of Christmas day - and there's plenty more plastic crap coming out every year for their poor parents to be browbeaten into buying. But that's the times I guess: if you don't have a digital video camera, you're a lousy parent.

This is turning into a thread on approaches to child-rearing I guess, but that's fine with me. Keep it coming if you feel the urge, I'll keep checking.

em.

Well, I don't wanna get too deep into this, but I don't think any of us can help you with Mrs. em's views on your activity. It sounds like it's not advice you need, but that it is something you alone can figure out between you two.

The biggest future advice I can give you, and it's a biggy, is on the potty training thing. Do not put them in those pull-ups style new fangled pseudo-diapers. Use those for bed time, but during the day, use the old fashioned plastic training pants. The pull ups are too comfortable for them and do not give the the urge they need to get trained. That messy, uncomfortable training pant will do the trick.

"But I have been given shit unlimited about irreponsible-daddy behavior."

That is ridiculous. Seriously.

Do whatever your wife wants, remember she is always right! Only reply when spoken to with..."Yes, ma luv" or "As you wish".

[ Edited by: DawnTiki on 2004-01-04 21:30 ]

Aloha,

Probably the toughest thing about being married regardless of children is the activity beloved by one but resented by the other.

It sounds like negotiation and tit for tat is not feasible.

I apologize if this answer sounds cynical:

This situation is really a small form of perpetual disagreement that can't be resolved in the short term. I would vote that you assert your "right" to a once monthly outing and then absolutely refuse to catch the guilt/punishment balls that get thrown to you. Even if you do feel guilty, spend 6 months acting like this is the way it is always going to be. You can continue to offer her a fair equivalent activity to take advantage of, but if she doesn't, it is not your responsibility to eliminate something you seem to so greatly appreciate.

Sometimes a spouse or significant other will chill out once he or she realizes that the other is going to persist in a given behavior and the resentment will diminish without a fight. I don't know if it is based on control or whatever, but drawing a line in the sand is worth it, in my eyes.

The near term friction will return a longer term understanding of some things that YOU want from life.

There, I went too long again, you seem to bring that out in me! I know we've disagreed recently, but I mean this advice in all good faith.

Keep us posted, to, venting and bouncing around opinions can be helpful.

Geekytiki is right... you gotta draw your line in the sand. ESPECIALLY since your line is so moderate - one night a month? I tnink the Amish get out more than that!

Final thanks to all of you, Geeky you provided champion backbone there, and I thank you. My bro wanted to see me last night at this new place that is trying to "go Tiki" and is only half a block (!) from my condo. Believe me, I'd had my eye on it for a good long while waiting for it to re-open (check "Locating Tiki", I'll post there in a bit).

Had a long talk with Mrs. emspace first. Said I needed to see my friends over drinks once in a while or I'd lose my sanity and spiral into the vortex of depression (I love drama). Seems her primary concern has not been so much the going out aspect, as being excessibly hammered. I can understand that - when you have an infant you don't want a drunk person handling them. I can imagine it would arouse maternal fears, I wouldn't want to see someone doing it to Ollie myself. So we now have a compromise, and all is harmonious. Will keep number of delicious Mai-Tais within reason.

Mahalo all for posting to this thread, hope you're having a good weekend.
:), em.

I would have gone for the other compromise - get as hammered as possible, and promise not to pick up baby in said state! haha also, wear a helmet.

To have children or not is a personal choice (well, usually), Mdm. Bong and I talked it over when we got married, waited 3.74 years then Samantha was born.

For her first 5 years of her life, I was self-absorbed with my bands, surfing, riding bikes down to Newport to drink, and generally acting like I was 19 (with a fake ID that is!). Unfortunately I was in my early 30's.

Next, Sarah was born. She was the new baby and so Samantha pretty much received less attention. Time went on. I was still doing my own thing with my usual pre-occupations.

Fast forward to 2003. Samantha is now 12 and is into being with her friends and learning who she is. I finally realized I f**#'d up and should have been spending alot more time with her. But it was too late. Fortunately, Sahah is still young enough for me to make up a little time.

At some point in my life I remember thinking that if I had kids, I would always be doing things with them all the time. As a kid myself, I really don't remember my mother or step-father ever doing much of anything with me (big suprise, huh?).

So keep this in mind if you have children: you had before they arrived, and will have after they become young adults plenty of time to hang with friends, drink, play guitar, and generally do whatever you want. What you don't have and will lose forever, is the time to be with them when they are young...