Confused with rums, and poor selection

Hi all,

I'm trying to buff up my rum collection and make a few decent tiki drinks. I'm having a hell of a time understanding rums (dark, light, etc), and I also have a relatively poor selection in my area.

I have the following rums:
Captain
Pusser's
Gosling Black Seal
Malibu
Captain White
Appleton V/X
Flor de Cana

Misc:
Cointreau
Orange curaçao
Blue curaçao
Grenadine
Coconut cream
Orgeat

I really want to make a dang mai tai. Would any combo of the above rums be good? I read Gosling and the Appleton V/X may be nice. But I don't understand the selection. The Appleton looks dark, but it's light? What makes it light and dark? What are some good tiki rums that are accessible to is who live in the backwoods of the south? :)

Thank you all

Rockydog, you've got some good rums there in your list, so you're on your way. What part of the South do you live in? That could help many of us provide you with a more insightful reply beyond the basic "mail order what you can't get locally" option.

Since you may be limited to mail-ordering rums (make sure your local liquor stores can't special order things for you first) then you can search Tiki Central for what others have done with mail-order.

Other than that, my initial suggestion to you would be to use Grogalizer.com in conjunction with Jeff Berry's cocktail recipe books. You won't have to draw on rum knowledge by just following the recipes, and you'll have fun learning about light/gold/dark rums along the way. I think this would make your foray in to rums much easier and more enjoyable.

Cheers and enjoy the journey!

Rockydog,

I agree with Ace. Try the Grogalizer and/or Jeff Berry's books (and Apps) and keep scanning these forums for TONS of great info.

In regards to making a mai-tai, You've got all essentials to start with. Having the Orgeat and the O Curacao along with the rums you have will get you started. I would either use 2 oz of the VX or mix either the Pussers or Goslings with the VX to start with. That will give you three variations to compare!
Just make sure you squeeze your limes fresh. Don't skimp on that part. I also really feel like the mint garnish adds a whole extra layer of complexity if you can smell it with each sip.

Okole Maluna!

Q

You can make a very large number of classic Tiki recipes with just 5 types of rum: basic light rum, Jamaican dark rum (Coruba or Myers most often, but your Goslings can sub here fine), and three types of gold rum — Cuban/Puerto Rican/Spanish style, Jamaican (your V/X goes here), and Demerara. You didn't indicate if your Flor de Caña was light or gold, but in either case you are already well on the way to being able to take a stab at a large number of classic recipes.

I will echo the prior sentiments about the value of Beachbum Berry's books (and iPhone apps!), Grogalizer, etc. Just dig in and have fun!

On 2014-08-20 06:27, rockydog101 wrote:
Hi all,

I really want to make a dang mai tai.

You are about two ingredients shy of a pretty tasty Mai Tai!

1/4 ounce of Orgeat
1/4 ounce of Simple syrup
1/2 ounce of Cointreau
~ 3/4 ounce of fresh Lime (about, ish, adjust to your taste based on how sweet your Orgeat is)
1.5 ounce of Appleton V/X
1.5 ounce of Flor de Cana (I am assuming you have the Gold 4 year)

Fill your shaker about half way with crushed ice.

Pour everything in. Shake until your hands go numb from the cold.

Strain into a double-old-fashioned glass filled with crushed ice.

Garnish with spent lime shell, sprig of fresh mint, and a short straw.

Enjoy!

Now that you have the basic recipe for your listed rums I think it's OK to warn you.... you are going to have to make several drinks. And by several I mean lots and lots and lots and lots of drinks. You might have to spread them out over a couple of days but that's OK. You see, you are going to have to add a bit more lime, or a bit less lime, or a bit more orgeat, or a bit less, you get the idea.... each time you make a Mai Tai to find the 'best' Mai Tai. The recipe I listed above is only your staring point.

Here is my recommendation for making a Mai Tai with your available ingredients.

First, get a double rocks glass (~14 oz). Fill it with crushed ice. Now dump the ice from the glass into a cocktail shaker.

Get a fresh lime and roll it on the table or counter a few times until it gets a little soft. Cut the lime in half accross the middle (not the long way). Squeeze the lime juice into the shaker.

Add 1.5 oz of the Appletom and 0.5 oz of the Pusser's. If the taste of the Pusser's is too intense for you, then just use 2 oz of the Appleton.

Add 0.5 oz (1 tablespoon) of the Orange (not blue) Curacao. Unless you have a cheap Curacao that tastes like cough syrup, in which case use the Cointreau.

Add to that 0.5 oz of the orgeat. Give it a quick shake and pur it, ice and all, back into the double rocks glass. The float about 0.5 oz of the Goslings on top. Take 1 of the spent half lime shells and put it in the drink. Then take some fresh mint, put it in the palm of one hand and then clap both hands together, This slighly bruises the mint to release the oils and aroma. Garnish your drink with the mint.

Now, shove in a straw and enjoy.

On 2014-08-20 12:15, Chip and Andy wrote:

1.5 ounce of Appleton V/X
1.5 ounce of Flor de Cana (I am assuming you have the Gold 4 year)

That seems a bit rum-heavy. An ounce each I think would provide you a better balanced cocktail

On 2014-08-20 13:19, arriano wrote:

That seems a bit rum-heavy.

Why do you make that sound like a bad thing?

:wink:

Why did I recommend 'so much' rum?

The Appleton V/X is very tasty, but not very aromatic.

The Flor de Cana, assuming it is the 4 Year Old Gold, is tasty, but again not very aromatic.

If it was the 7 year Flor de Cana, I would recommend one ounce, maybe just a wee bit shy of that.

If it was better than the V/X I would recommend the lighter pour too.

The two lighter weight rums listed in the original post are going to dry out under the Cointreau so I recommend a bit more for in the pour.

And like I mentioned.... many, many Mai Tai's will need to be made to get it just right. It's the only way to be sure.

I do like the Appleton V/X & the Flor de Cana 12 year with a Lemon Hart 151 float
in a traditional Trader Vics Mai Tai, I keep it to one ounce each for an even balance.

Edit: well you know....

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-08-20 15:22 ]

On 2014-08-20 14:59, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
I do like the Appleton V/X & the Flor de Cana 12 year with a Lemon Hart 151 float
in a traditional Trader Vics Mai Tai, I keep it to one once each for an even balance.

I'm sure you meant ounce, but I always figured you for a light weight.

As such, you are hereby limited to one Mai Tai each and every day, err, hour...

To stay on topic - One ounce of each rum is correct, a dark floater is entirely optional, albeit, my wife and ATP beg to differ.

However, I would consider procuring the Denizen Rum 8 Year Merchant's Reserve and utilize two ounces of this fine Mai Tai making rum.

Also consider using orange curacao vs. Cointreau, and then go with the balance of the above mentioned recipe.

[ Edited by: Oxybeles 2014-08-20 15:19 ]

Good first post Rockydog101!

Chiming in here a bit later than others & with a little time on my hands, here's my 2 cents:

Re your rums:
Appleton V/X is in regular rotation on my bar - good rum I wouldn't be without!
I have had Flor de Cana, Pussers & Goslings Black Seal - they are all good.
I also have Malibu too but it is of limited use (for when my sisters come to stay)
Captain I know but don't rate (drink it in coke), Captain White I don't know.

Re your 'misc' products:
They all sound fine - you may have struck lucky & picked up all good examples or may wish to seek out another version when you restock.

Regarding making Mai Tais:
Mai Tais are very much a drink where people's opinions rule.

In sticking to the traditional measures, you can tweak them ~ a lot of people cut the lime to 3/4 oz instead of 1 oz. Use whatever rums you fancy (2 Oz the same or 1 Oz of one type / 1 Oz of another or even 3 Oz as suggested) ~ if you like the mai tai made a certain way, make it again... if you don't like it... maybe don't make it that way again.

As a tip: If you want to use the Cointreau or cheaper curaçao in a mai tai, I found them a bit strong so cutting them back a bit helps.

IMO the mai tai is basically a vehicle for trying out rums, I can believe that Appletons VX & Goslings Black Seal will make a fine mai tai. I agree with all the above comments that practice makes perfect :)

Re the differences between light / gold / dark rum:
I always think of rums in 5 categories: Jamaican, Demerara, 'Other English', Spanish & French

Typically the Jamaican & Demerara rums would be the 'dark' rums in your collection. They tend to taste a little bit deeper & express a character that is typical of their style (you'll get to know what that means after you've tried a few).

Appleton VX is a good example of a Jamaican rum character but is not generally considered 'dark' (i.e. is not as treacle or molasses flavoured as others). I still use it in drinks calling for a 'dark Jamaican' rum.

If you were to pick up more Jamaican rums commonly used rums are Appleton 12, Coruba & Myers. Myers is the most strongly 'treacle / molasses' flavoured - that can be off putting in some drinks but if you pick the drinks you put it in, it can be great. I often use Appleton VX & Myers 50:50 in drinks where Myers is too strong flavoured.

Coruba is slightly less 'treacle / molasses', Appleton 12 is more refined (by that I mean the 'treacle / molasses' flavour is tempered & you get a more tastes from the rum being aged).

Demerara rums are usually dark (like Jamaican rums can be) but the 'treacle / molasses' flavour is less pronounced. The are often described as woody or smokey. Pussers is a blended rum that contains some Demerara rum. Most people (including me) would advise trying any of the El Dorado or Lemon Hart rums.

Other English style rums broadly covers all the rums that are distilled in ex British colonies (eg like Barbados rums). They are typically lighter than Jamaican or Demerara rums & gold coloured. Some 'Other English' style rums can be dark, for example Goslings Black Seal. If I didn't have demerara rums, I would have no problems using Goslings Black Seal when a recipe calls for a Demerara rum but you'll be missing something (it's not as deep).

Spanish style rums are lighter rums still (think like Flor De Cana), they can be gold or white. They won't taste 'treacle / molasses' or 'woody / smokey' but more likely 'fruity', 'crisp' or 'lightly golden'. They are usually used to cut the flavour of the Jamaican & Demerara rums (eg you use 50:50 resulting in a mix of both sets of flavours)

French style rum (aka rhum agricole) is a little more complicated, they are distinctive tasting & sort of 'grassy' or 'tangy'.

The boundaries between rum categories blur!

For recipes:
The author Jeff Beachbum Berry has published lots of books - they are pretty much the Bibles of tiki drinks. If you have an iPhone or iPad, his 'Total Tiki' app has the majority of the recipes but the books have stories that are worth reading in them too.

For where to go next with starting making tiki drinks:
Tiki drinks tend to use lots of syrups (like Orgeat) & when you read recipes you usually find you are missing an ingredient when you are starting out. I would advise picking them up one at time when you find a recipe that calls for them. TC is full of opinions on what is good.

My advice to newbie would be to get a dark Jamaican rum, a Demerara rum, a Spanish style rum & a Beachbum Berry resource (book / app).

You sort of have that between Appleton VX, Goslings Black Seal & Flor De Cana so if I were you I'd order a Beachbum Berry book or app to read over & experiment with a few mai tais while you do :)

Cheers!

On 2014-08-20 15:09, Oxybeles wrote:

On 2014-08-20 14:59, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
I do like the Appleton V/X & the Flor de Cana 12 year with a Lemon Hart 151 float
in a traditional Trader Vics Mai Tai, I keep it to one once each for an even balance.

I'm sure you meant ounce, but I always figured you for a light weight.

As such, you are hereby limited to one Mai Tai each and every day, err, hour...

To stay on topic - One ounce of each rum is correct, a dark floater is entirely optional, albeit, my wife and ATP beg to differ.

However, I would consider procuring the Denizen Rum 8 Year Merchant's Reserve and utilize two ounces of this fine Mai Tai making rum.

Also consider using orange curacao vs. Cointreau, and then go with the balance of the above mentioned recipe.

[ Edited by: Oxybeles 2014-08-20 15:19 ]

Fixed it Oxy, I don't want to be the reason anyone screws up a fine cocktail
but for the record, I am always the last man standing!
I have an "unfortunately" high tolerance to alcohol.

there's gotta be a gazillion mai-tai etc threads somebody could point him to on TC.

AdorAdam - Thanks for the explanations on the types of rum. I have several of the Beach Bum's books, use the Grogalizer and buy rums frequently but still struggled on the types! Most importantly, Rockydog101 keep mixing drinks (a Mai Tai is my fav) that's the best part! Have fun!

WOW, AdOrAdam, home run! Thanks for taking the time to write all that out. I will compare your observations with mine the next time I do a tasting.

Sincerelt, thank you all for the info. I will follow with the resources as suggested. Thank you!

drinkupny will ship anywhere.

Your most important rum will be your dark. That's your main flavor and aroma in cocktails. I use Myers's and there are a few others that are good if you can get them. I would be surprised if you can't get it where you are.

Here is my tiki bar basics post

You really are closer than you think. Get some Lemon Hart 151, a solid dark and the mixers and you are ready to make the best cocktails in the Bum's books.

IMO a Mai Tai is not your goal or your standard. I never touch those. Drinks you should strive to make: Jet Pilot, Zombie Punch, Cobra's Fang, 151 Swizzle, Rum Barrel, Nui Nui.

On 2014-08-21 06:59, Swanky wrote:
IMO a Mai Tai is not your goal or your standard. I never touch those.

There is gonna be a rumble in Tiki Town Tonight!

First I'll let two others point out the folly of your words.....

Starting with Dr Bamboo from 2010: "...The Mai Tai is one of a very small category of drinks I call "bulletproof." That is, you can give a drink of this type to virtually anyone and they'll like it."

http://drbamboo.blogspot.com/2010/09/anatomy-of-drink-mai-tai.html

And then there is the ever popular Joe Bob Briggs. This is a long read and I can't find a working link so I'll just quote it from the archives: If you don't read this know, mark it and come back, it is worth it!

Joe Bob Briggs
Joe Bob's Wild America
The Great Mai Tai Hunt (Frat Parties Turned the Classic American Libation Into an Umbrella Drink. I Went to Find the Real Deal)
by Joe Bob Briggs
October/November 2000

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm a betrayed and angry man. We all know that standards in this country have plummeted to depths known only by the dead bloated body of Leonardo DiCaprio. But this is too much. As my buddy Roddy Piper would say, it's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum--and I'm all out of bubble gum.

I speak, of course, of the Mai Tai.

The Mai Tai is our greatest American cocktail. It doesn't have an ounce of single-malt Braveheart wheat-juice in it. It has nothing to do with the latest cranapple-flavored Rooskie pseudo-vodka sloshed out of bottles by guys named Evan. The Mai Tai doesn't come from some candy-ass gun club lounge where racehorse owners talk about debentures in Singapore while sipping "juleps." A Mai Tai, properly made, is strong enough to put permanent fissures in a fat man's brain, yet delicate enough to make his girlfriend try to conjugate verbs with her thighs. The ingredients might come from the Caribbean. The South Pacific might have made it famous. But the Mai Tai comes from California and is so by-God American that any bartender who can't make it should be shot for treason.

I say this now. I had no idea it would come to this when I ascended the 107 floors to the top of One World Trade Center recently in search of a Mai Tai. Windows on the World bills itself as "The Greatest Bar on Earth," and I don't think it's because of the local cover band--called, appropriately, Deep Cover--that was wailing on some seventies disco bullstuff when I got there. I shouldered my way to one of the busiest bars this side of the SAE house at the University of Arkansas, elbowing a few Euro-weenies in the ribs and mussing their shiny leather shoulder-strap jackets. Face to face with one of [five] harried bartenders, I said, "Can you make me a Mai Tai?" I should have known by the long pause that his answer would consign me to Umbrella Drink Hell.

"Sure," he said meekly. "Just a minute."

I watched him as he placed a highball glass on the counter.

(A Mai Tai is not served in a highball glass. A Mai Tai is served in a double old-fashioned glass.)

I watched him as he dumped some ice cubes into the glass.

(A Mai Tai is made with crushed ice.)

I watched him as he poured into this already pseudo-Mai Tai a big gob of Myers Rum. He didn't bother to measure it.

(A Mai Tai is made with Jamaican rum, and sometimes the rums of Martinique, and the proportions are so precise that you can overpower the rum with one false move of an aerodynamically balanced jigger.)

I watched him dump the contents of two unmarked pre-mixed bottles into the glass. One was a milky white jug and one was a Coke-bottle-green jug.

(There are no Mai Tai recipes, to my knowledge, that call for Yoohoo chocolate soda.)

At this point he looked around in panic, searched some shelves, and disappeared. He was gone a long time. I watched the ice cubes in the highball-with-rum-and-unknown-mixes melting away.

He returned. He searched some more. He left again. As he passed me, I said, "What are you looking for?"

He confessed that he had no orgeat syrup, necessary for the subtle almond flavor that, in my opinion, makes or breaks a Mai Tai. He searched the adjoining restaurants for orgeat, found none, returned, and was about to give up when one of his fellow bartenders whispered something to him. He picked up yet another unmarked bottle, dumped a little of it into the drink, poured it into a shaker, strained it back into the glass. As he was inserting the little umbrella, I said "What was that?"

He said, "Amaretto. To cut the bite."

(Amaretto is not an ingredient in a Mai Tai.)

I swallowed it. I swallowed all of it. It was like a combination of cough syrup, pancake batter, and the automatic transmission fluid from a 1973 Oldsmobile Toronado. I staggered back to the bar to find out if the white bottle and the green bottle had contained either anti-freeze or tick repellent. The white one turned out to be Windows on the World's version of Curacao, and the green one was lime juice, or what they claim to be lime juice, since the only way to put lime in a Mai Tai is to--surprise!--squeeze a goldurn fresh lime. The total price of this industrial cleaning solvent: nine bucks. I tried to offer some to Harvey "Choo Choo" Morris, the drummer and lead singer in Deep Cover, but he was a wise man and declined to imbibe while drumming. He also declined after he finished drumming.

"What has happened to us as a nation?" I mused three days later, after regaining full use of the left side of my body. I resolved not to rest until I got an act of Congress, or at least a bulletin from the Food and Drug Administration, requiring the return to real Mai Tais within my lifetime.

The Mai Tai was invented by one of our greatest bartenders, the one-legged foul-mouthed rum-lover Vic Bergeron, on a day in 1944 when he was experimenting with tropical drinks at his original Trader Vic's restaurant in Oakland. At this point Vic was in his bartending prime, having spent 20 years working up to what would be his piece de resistance, and to start it he took down from the shelf a bottle of 17-year aged Jamaican rum. Anyone who thinks the Mai Tai is a cheap drink should consider this. Jamaican rum aged 17 years is so rare that it doesn't even exist anymore. When the big multi-national companies started buying up the sugar cane plantations in the Caribbean, they shut down all the little rum distilleries where it was still possible to find recipes from the days of Sir Walter Raleigh, which is one reason we have a whole generation of cheap Bacardi drinkers. (Don't even get me started on Puerto Rico. If they want statehood, they need to start sending us some rum that can be swallowed without a visit to the eye, ear, nose and throat specialist.) But back to this moment in American alcohol history. Trader Vic poured two ounces of J. Wray and Nephew 17-year Jamaican rum over shaved ice in a double old-fashioned glass. He then squeezed into the rum, with his fingers, one fresh lime. At this point the drink is virtually complete. In the great man's autobiography, he wrote "The flavor of this great rum wasn't meant to be overpowered with heavy addition of fruit drinks and flavorings." But to give it just the little tang he wanted, he added a tiny bit of orange curacao from the Holland DeKuyper company, and French orgeat syrup (Garier, if you're taking notes) to get the almond flavor. He shook it and served it with a fresh mint sprig. It so happened that two friends of his from Tahiti were in the bar that day. A woman took the first drink and pronounced "Mai tai roa ae!" In Tahitian this means "Out of this world--the best!" And so the Mai Tai was born, named, and, from what I know now, immediately began its long slow decline into frat-boy hell.

Fifty-six years later, I began my quest to resurrect the authentic Mai Tai. I consulted guides to Tiki bars. I looked for recipes on the website. I found the best bartender's guide to tropical drinks, Beachbum Berry's Grog Log, which recommends Lemon Hart Jamaican rum in place of the now impossible to find J. Wray & Nephew. And after proper research, I set off for some recommended bars where the Mai Tai was still revered.

My first stop was Poli-Tiki, a bar on Pennsylvania Avenue virtually in the shadow of our nation's Capitol, where, I was told, there were carved Tiki heads in the shape of ex-presidents, and where Martin Denny reigned supreme on the jukebox. (Martin Denny is the thinking man's Don Ho. His big hit from the fifties, "Quiet Village," is the acknowledged anthem of all Tiki bars, featuring bird calls and primitive drumming that seethes with the allure of island sex. You need this music for a perfect Mai Tai.) I found the place--it was smaller than I expected--and entered to the strains of . . . Santana. Some guy had just put enough change in the jukebox to play an entire Santana album. Why was Santana even being allowed at Poli-Tiki? Confused, I sat at a vinyl booth that was reminiscent of a Greyhound Transit Diner, circa 1958. I asked for the menu. All great Tiki bars have tropical drink menus. This menu had burgers, nachos and onion rings on it. I called the bartender over and asked him if he could make a Mai Tai. He agreed to do it. He added, for some reason, an orange slice on a spear--not a good sign. I took one drink and said "Mai Tai Roa Lani," which, in Tahitian, means "This drink tastes like my tie." It was too thick, too syrupy, and I kept trying to find the lime and couldn't taste it. I asked him what he put in it. He said "One cheap rum and one pretty good one." While I was waiting to see if the dreaded Mai Tai Headache would develop (it did), I noticed that there were no Tiki heads of politicians on the walls. I went downstairs to find glow-in-the-dark pool tables, a bamboo curtain, and a guy sleeping on a Teak chair, but no Tiki heads. Apparently they had been taken out and moved to some other restaurant, or flea market, and I could only hope it was some place where Santana was not playing.

Fortunately, I got a Mai Tai tip in the place. For a real Mai Tai, the guy said, I should head for The Tiki Bar on Solomon's Island, but he warned that it would be a two-hour drive to the coast of southern Maryland. He obviously didn't understand he was speaking to an obsessed Mai Tai lobbyist who had just been humiliated within a few blocks of my nation's Capitol. I was trolling through Solomon's Island by the next afternoon.

I was happy to see that, of all the fish restaurants and boardwalk bars in the little fishing and tourist town, the only place that was really packed was the outdoor Tiki Bar. I was further heartened by noticing the Mai Tai listed as their permanent number one drink specialty, with a picture actually painted into the wooden awning.

It took me five seconds to order the drink. It took them four seconds to bring the drink.

The best way to describe it might be Snapple-and-pineapple-juice-that-gets-you-so-drunk-you-want-a-sec ond-one. This was definitely some kind of spring break concoction that had been put together by drill instructors at the Patuxent River Naval Air Station next door as a form of boot-camp hazing. These things were so thick yet fruity that you sort of sipped them, then gulped them, then inhaled them, and then they hooked you up to an IV and you just mainlined it until closing time. As I tried to focus on the bare bronzed chest of the Neck-Chain-Wearing Yachting Guy sitting across from me, I asked one of the bartending cuties what was in the drink.

"Well, it's three or four different kinds of rum," she said.

I asked her what brands of rum.

"Oh, they would never tell us what's actually in it. We just pour 'em."

And then she points to . . . a giant plastic jug! They were sloshing these things, pre-mixed, out of a two-gallon Mai Tai Mushmaster. I staggered back to my car and slept it off while tourists stared at my beached-whale gaping carcass. I was nearing Mai Tai Nadir here.

Four days later, after passing a brain scan, I gathered together every Mai Tai recipe I could find and consulted every possible Mai Tai mixologist, both professional and amateur. It slowly became clear that the word "Mai Tai" had been appropriated for an astonishing variety of drinks, most of them of the fruity party-till-you-puke variety. Everywhere I went I ordered a Mai Tai, but at last I wised up and discovered that, if the first sip doesn't taste right, the next 90 won't either. The drinks ran the full gamut, so many different tastes and styles that the word "Mai Tai" seemed to be as generic as, say, "schizophrenia." At most places these were hammerhead knockout drinks. But at The Tobacco Company in Richmond, renowned as one of the greatest bars in Virginia, the Mai Tai was so fruity that it could have been served as punch at a first-grader's birthday party. For some reason many bars have taken to adding orange juice or pineapple juice to the drink. I can understand why they might do this in Hawaii, where it's just cheaper and easier, but it's those cheap-ass Hawaiian Mai Tais we're trying to avoid in the first place!

Let me make this clear: The Mai Tai is NOT A FRUIT DRINK!

Rum is made from sugar cane. It's already sweet! Is this so hard to understand? At various times I had Mai Tais containing Maraschino syrup, grenadine, triple sec, all kinds of things out of plastic jugs (lime juice in a plastic jug is not lime juice), and so many canned fruit juices that I couldn't possibly enumerate them all, although the strangest was Ocean Spray Mauna Lai Paradise Passion Juice. There's also a disturbing tendency to float some dark 151 Demerara rum on the surface of the Mai Tai, thereby masking the taste of what is supposed to be the perfectly aged Jamaican rum that is the essence of what the Mai Tai started out to be! Demerara rum is from Guyana, I think, and it doesn't have anything to do with a Mai Tai.

Okay, I'm gonna be calm now. I finally called Peter Seely. Peter Seely is the grandson of Mai Tai inventor Vic "Trader Vic" Bergeron, who died in 1984, and of all the Trader's grandchildren, he's the one who loves rum drinks the most. He is a self-admitted "rum snob." From his office in Emeryville, California, he offered to help. The first thing he did was send me some Trader Vic's Mai Tai mix. Although I'm pretty sure the Trader would not have approved of a drink made from a mix, I tried this stuff and it does not ruin good rum. It's probably the closest you can come to a classic Mai Tai at home. The next thing he did was give me the substitute recipe for a Mai Tai. Since the original rum doesn't exist, the Mai Tai has become a mythological drink in some ways. Since you can't really make it, you have to improvise. And this allowed the juiceheads to get away with Headache Drink Terrorism. The substitute recipe uses some Jamaican rum, some Martinique rum, and basically follows the tenets of the original, except modern tastes require a little more curacao and orgeat than Vic would have used. Peter is a talkative and funny man, and he was only speaking casually when he gave me the keys to the kingdom.

He said, "The next time you're near a Trader Vic's, tell the bartender you want the Mai Tai made 'the old way.'"

Why?

"Because, if you say that, he'll make it from scratch. He'll measure everything according to the recipe. And the old way is a little stronger."

I was on the next plane. I not only had a Mai Tai the old way, but I had a Mai Tai in the modern descendant of Trader Vic's original restaurant, at a marina in Emeryville, California, across the bay from San Francisco. I didn't really like the cherry and orange slice on a stem that has been added to the fresh mint sprig, but I put all quibbles aside when I tasted this Mai Tai.

Mai tai roa ae.

After two I was crawling on the floor, reciting Shakespeare's late love sonnets.

I had four. I vaguely remember Martin Denny on the sound system. Or maybe it was Don Ho.

No, I had five.

I slept that night, for the first time in weeks. Somehow it was a start. If I could feel this renewed, there was hope for the republic.

Maybe I had six.

And then my own opus on the subject....

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=20200&forum=10

[ Edited by: Chip and Andy 2014-08-21 09:07 ]

On 2014-08-21 09:04, Chip and Andy wrote:

On 2014-08-21 06:59, Swanky wrote:
IMO a Mai Tai is not your goal or your standard. I never touch those.

There is gonna be a rumble in Tiki Town Tonight!

First I'll let two others point out the folly of your words.....

Starting with Dr Bamboo from 2010: "...The Mai Tai is one of a very small category of drinks I call "bulletproof." That is, you can give a drink of this type to virtually anyone and they'll like it."

http://drbamboo.blogspot.com/2010/09/anatomy-of-drink-mai-tai.html

And then there is the ever popular Joe Bob Briggs. This is a long read and I can't find a working link so I'll just quote it from the archives: If you don't read this know, mark it and come back, it is worth it!

Joe Bob Briggs
Joe Bob's Wild America
The Great Mai Tai Hunt (Frat Parties Turned the Classic American Libation Into an Umbrella Drink. I Went to Find the Real Deal)
by Joe Bob Briggs
October/November 2000

...

The only reason the Mai Tai is so "popular" is because Don the Beachcomber passed away in 1989 and his empire closed with him. If there were no Don the Beachcomber, there would never have been a Trader Vic's and never a Mai Tai. Vic was a better business man and spread his cut-rate Don the Beachcomber knock off around the world and it has stayed around to this day. Vic himself would not have dared say his drinks were Donn's equals, let alone superior. The drink also became popular on Hawaii, where it was butchered and beaten and should be taken out back and shot, but not like a cocktail shot. Mai Tai is slang for fruit juice and rum with a dark floater.

Why go for the hack trying to duplicate Donn's masterpieces when you can actually have the masterpieces he was trying to copy?

I get what Swanky is saying about the Mai Tai. It is not cut from the same cloth as the Donn Beach rum rhapsodies that form so much of the Tiki drink pantheon. And it is more of a balancing act than most of the others, where switching up the rums, dialing any or the other ingredients up or down just a bit, etc., greatly influence the drink.

I hesitated to ass LH151 to my starter rum list because it is very hard for many to find and getting harder still. There are a lot of drinks that can be made until someone new to rum drinks scores a bottle of Lemon Hart.

On 2014-08-21 10:18, Swanky wrote:
Mai Tai is slang for fruit juice and rum with a dark floater.

Which is why so many people, myself included, work so hard to put the Mai Tai back on the top shelf where it belongs. Mai Tai's DO NOT have a dark floater. Ever.

Why go for the hack trying to duplicate Donn's masterpieces when you can actually have the masterpieces he was trying to copy?

No disrespect to the rest of Donn's Rhum Rhapsodies, but the Mai Tai is the superior cocktail. The Beachcomber had the QB Cooler.... Mai Tai light. Mai Tai wannabe. Well, it can't really be a wannabe since it came first, but the point is that it isn't as good as a Mai Tai.

Trader Vic might be the cut-rate version of the Beachcomber empire, and he wasn't the only one to ride on those particular coat-tails, but you do have to give credit where credit is due.... Trader Vics, unlike most of the others, is still around. And for all of the drinks invented by Donn or Vic... the Mai Tai, when made well, is a most excellent drink and has no equal. There are many drinks like it, but none beat it.

Joe Bob is hilarious! :lol:

On 2014-08-21 10:33, Chip and Andy wrote:

On 2014-08-21 10:18, Swanky wrote:
Mai Tai is slang for fruit juice and rum with a dark floater.

Which is why so many people, myself included, work so hard to put the Mai Tai back on the top shelf where it belongs. Mai Tai's DO NOT have a dark floater. Ever.

Why go for the hack trying to duplicate Donn's masterpieces when you can actually have the masterpieces he was trying to copy?

No disrespect to the rest of Donn's Rhum Rhapsodies, but the Mai Tai is the superior cocktail. The Beachcomber had the QB Cooler.... Mai Tai light. Mai Tai wannabe. Well, it can't really be a wannabe since it came first, but the point is that it isn't as good as a Mai Tai.

Trader Vic might be the cut-rate version of the Beachcomber empire, and he wasn't the only one to ride on those particular coat-tails, but you do have to give credit where credit is due.... Trader Vics, unlike most of the others, is still around. And for all of the drinks invented by Donn or Vic... the Mai Tai, when made well, is a most excellent drink and has no equal. There are many drinks like it, but none beat it.

Go to Trader Vic's and order a Mai Tai. You'll be lucky if you can drink it. Awful. Just awful. My last few trips to Trader Vic's have left me not wanting to return.

Next, go anywhere that serves a Jet Pilot or Navy Grog or even a Q.B. Cooler. It'll be awesome.

They won't have to spend many, many hours dialing it in to make it taste good or even right. Open the recipe, mix it up, it is good.

That's a win-win for Donn's recipes.

As of my last look, drinkupny still have LH151 in stock. i.e. I didn't buy ALL of it.

I'm glad people enjoyed my comparison of rum styles - the main thing to do is drink what you've got & enjoy discovering each new bottle you purchase.

In part I agree with Swanky, I make considerably less Mai Tais now than I did in my 'early days'. But they are still a good drink I make when I am short on all other citrus fruit. Trader Vic wasn't a hack but did base most of his drinks around orange / lemon / orgeat.

Nowadays I reach more often for drinks containing ingredients like cinnamon syrup, honey, falernum, pimento, bitters & pernod - Navy Grogs, Three Dots & a Dash or Jet Pilots being faves.

To those who think Trader Vic should win in a head to head with Don The Beachcomber... you are mistaken :)

Rockydog101, don't be put off by this! :)

I love these Mai Tai discussions (Throw downs)
but I don't stay for the cleanup afterwards, somebody gets paid to do that, right?

The classic Trader Vics Mai Tai is what I want, when I want a Mai Tai
I do tweak it on occasion (Sub Grand Marnier for Orange Curacao & a dash of high end bitters)
Sometimes I want that little bit of burn, that boozy kick of flavor a float of 151 brings to the flavor orgy!

And sometimes I want the Bums recipe to a tittle, make it like that or loose some fingers!
I want it served by a bartender that looks just like Alan Napier & I don't want to share the barspace
with Hipsters or foaming at the mouth armchair athletes with Tourettes Syndrome!

Is that too much to ask?

On 2014-08-21 11:45, Swanky wrote:

Next, go anywhere that serves a Jet Pilot or Navy Grog or even a Q.B. Cooler. It'll be awesome.

Jet Pilots are not Mai Tais. Nor are they comparable to one. A Jet Pilot is a Jet Pilot and the Mai Kai makes my favorite version.

Navy Grogs are not Mai Tais. Nor are they comparable to one. A Navy Grog is a Navy Grog and KukuAhu makes my favorite version.

A QB Cooler is the closest comparison to a Mai Tai, and the Mai Tai is the superior option in my opinion.

Tiare Olsen over at Mountain of Crushed Ice has an interesting article regarding the QB Cooler vs the Mai Tai...

http://www.amountainofcrushedice.com/?p=12106

Two drinks so close, yet so far apart.

Donn was a superior mixologist to Vic. But I don't think the Mai Tai is surpassed in the cocktail world. When made right -- and it's really quite easy to make right -- it is sublime.

That being said, one of the beauties of the wide, wide world of Tiki is that there are so many different drinks to enjoy. Something for everyone! :)

On 2014-08-21 13:31, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
I love these Mai Tai discussions (Throw downs)

And sometimes I want the Bums recipe to a tittle, make it like that or loose some fingers!
I want it served by a bartender that looks just like Alan Napier & I don't want to share the barspace
with Hipsters or foaming at the mouth armchair athletes with Tourettes Syndrome!

Is that too much to ask?

Holy Schnikees Batman!

If you want Alfred as your Bartender, it is a-okay with me.

I would choose Kate Upton to shake my Mai-Tai vigorously...

Fond memories of Hot Dog on a Stick and watching the Lemonade being made!

All due respect Oxy :lol:

But a man needs to have priorities, right!
You can get a good Mai Tai or get your Jollies

Good luck getting a good Mai Tai from Kate Upton.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2014-08-22 04:44 ]

On 2014-08-21 19:46, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

Good luck getting a good Mai Tai from Kate Upton.

If Kate Upton is making the next round I better finish this one!

AdOrAdam, 1st time I've seen you post.

I really appreciate posting like yours! Great insight.

-Longboard

On 2014-08-22 03:58, Chip and Andy wrote:

On 2014-08-21 19:46, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

Good luck getting a good Mai Tai from Kate Upton.

If Kate Upton is making the next round I better finish this one!

Cocktails served by the glass. . . or by the jugs!

On 2014-08-22 10:49, Sunny&Rummy wrote:

Cocktails served by the glass. . . or by the jugs!

INSERT INAPPROPRIATE ANIMATED GIF HERE

:wink:

I never grow tired of reading Joe Bob's Mai Tai article.
Thanks Chip, for finding a great moment to share that timeless classic.

Just wanted to say I had my first Zombie. Used "Dr Cocktail" recipe (cruzan gold, cruzan light, lemon, lime, passionfruit syrup, pineapple juice, brown sugar, ag bitters - I did not have any lemon hart 151, it's at fedex waiting on me!) --- INCREDIBLE. Addicting flavor. The fresh lemon/lime are fantastic. I'm going to have to invest in a juicer and do fresh pineapple juice too instead of the canned stuff. Absolutely amazing.

I have not re-made my Mai tai yet. I just received a higher quality orgeat, and I ordered some eldorado 8. So for my mai tai I have the following rums:

Appleton V/X
Cruzan Gold
Cruzan (light? white? just normal)
Goslings
El Dorado 8
Pusser's
Flor de Cana 4

Which would you think would make the smoothest Mai tai?

Which would you think would make the smoothest Mai tai?

You can make a very tasty Mai Tai with the Appelton and Cruzan pair, or Appleton and ED8.

If you want to get all fancy split your measure three-ways and use Appleton, ED8 and Flor de Cana (smallest measure).

You will ultimately have to start mixing and matching to find the blend you like best. And when you find a good one, write it down as well as share it here.

In fact, share your whole recipe so we can play along at home and make one too.