Have you seen this? Boardreader.com

I have spoken to Hanford about why TC is so very far out of date version wise. He said he made so many custom code modifications to it that upgrading would break all those and he'd have to start over. So I guess he just manages it as best he can.

Good to know, Swanky. There will come a time when the changes to underlying technology will no longer be supported, and a migration will be required. Isn't Hanford employed as a developer or otherwise works in IT? In that case I'd take a guess that he's already thinking ahead. I'd also guess that the underlying database would allow both images and posts to be exported and re-loaded. Customizations, however, would need to be re-designed and re-coded.

Having said all that, though, some of the "modern" forum systems I have seen out there are more clunky.

Someone asked earlier about what would (or could) happen if this system just died. I would look to Archive.org to see how much of the TC system is duplicated there. Someone (with lots of time, skill, and patience) could "crawl" Archive.org and download whatever material they have, re-index it, and resurrect this body of work. Of course, deep down inside, I suspect that Hanford drinks lots of authentic Mai Tais, and doing so would make him immortal. So my speculation can simply be ignored since we can reasonably assume that he will live forever.

Cheers! :drink:

On 2016-10-27 15:47, ErichTroudt wrote:

Like someone mentioned earlier, a lot of people don't care about the past, so why come here? It provides nothing for them.

Facebook has the things they wanna see, its easier to use and less drama.

Other than history, TC provides nothing tiki people can't get faster and easier from facebook.

TC needs to give people a reason to come back and entice new people to notice them.

Erich, I have a different view, and I'll politely challenge a few of these assertions in an effort to cast some light on it from a slightly different perspective. What exactly does Facebook give people? The only thing I can think of is near-real-time and short-term social message and photo exchanges and fairly brief discussions. That's substantially it. There is little depth beyond that. Yes, it's easier, and TENDS to have less drama. When there is drama, it expires quickly and tends to fade away. Discussions don't often extend into the depth we see here on this system. Facebook is sort of single-dimensional and has high immediacy. Tiki Central has multi-dimensionality, high durability, and reasonable immediacy through email. Those are some big differences.

Should Tiki Central give people a reason to come back? I don't think so -- that should happen entirely on its own. People either seek immediacy, or they seek more depth and more topics, which we - loosely - are here calling "history." So both platforms attract different audiences. Those who want it find it. To me, tiki is deep, so I gravitate to Tiki Central. The other stuff on Facebook tends to stay higher-level and more superficial, with some exceptions. For the record, I never go to Facebook to "find" or "look up" anything except for maybe event details, or to RSVP to something, and stuff like that.

I think we should be clear about these details. To do otherwise is, to me, oversimplification and under-appreciation of both mediums on many levels. They both have good audiences, and both serve different purposes in different ways.

I'm AceExplorer and I approve this message.

On 2016-10-27 19:43, Hakalugi wrote:
Would anybody like to step up and be a moderator? Tiki Central is seeking one or two.

I do not.
Have said before it is a thankless job, but then I have said thank you a few times too and I say it again to Hakalugi and others who do this thankless job.

Also felt that this statement is wrong and the problem was fixed fast.
"took forever to get the spam problem fixed,"

Dam the people who put the time in to do the work that keeps TC going don't get paid.
Heck go to the Grass Skirt or many other businesses and you will see far less effort put in AND they do get paid.

So please don't get the idea that I for one feel that moderators are in anyway a part of TC getting less traffic or do a bad (free job), I want to make that clear.

YOU the TC member are the problem, If YOU the TC member don't make an effort to add to TC, make it more interesting and something that people want to support it may die and then when you need to sell what your selling next time you won't have TC as a FREE place to hock your Mug, event, group, carving, bar, art, ect.

PLUS the interest will also die and you won't have as much interest in your tiki crap you are selling.

So if you have an event you could say after the event POST PICTURES, dam you post here to get people to come, the least you could do is pay it forward and help TC by doing that don't you?

If you go to Events or a party or a bar Post pics of that.

Or sit back do nothing and it will diminish or die.
Ask not what TC can do for you but "what can I do for TC"

Thanks Skip.

What AceExplorer said about Hanford and the need to re-code or export to another platform is true, basically, it isn't going to happen. The long laundry list grows longer.

Changes or updates to the board, are in Hanford's domain as moderators (or the administrator) do not have access to coding.

Unfortunately we have to work with what we have. Things that used to be automated, such as GM renewals, are being done manually due to programming needs. Spam is manually deleted post by post.

What does a moderator do? This is straight from the Help/FAQ:

Moderators control individual forums. They can edit, delete, or prune any posts in their forums. If you have a question about a particular forum, you should direct it to your forum moderator.

Admins and forum moderators reserve the right to close or delete any post that does not provide a clear and purposeful topic.

The pay is $0

How many active moderators does TC have? 0

As the current Administrator here, I'm doing it all and unfortunately, as far as Erich's concerns, there's not much I can do.

At this point, Tiki Central is what it is. Complaints such as those listed above by Erich do nothing but lower morale.

[ Edited by: Hakalugi 2016-10-28 07:03 ]

I've offered to be a Moderator before and am still up for it. I've been coming here several times a day from the get-go.

I think the TC version of phbb is so old that upgrading at this time might be nearly impossible. It would certainly mean some downtime and lots of knowledgeable code work. I would bet the server is Linux and you'd better be admin knowledgeable. I ran a phpbb for a while and it got hit with so much spam it could not be operated any longer. thousands of fake users filling it with porn. I just gave up and deleted it.

What I think is meant by what FB offers that TC doesn't, is more current events info. It is more oriented to now. I am here, or going to be there next week or whatever. Tiki today is more about a special event at Hidden Harbor next week and who is there right now that TC could really manage well as a bulletin board. And let's face it, Facebook is a landing page for amny of us. It's where we keep up with news, and current events and our friends activities. Might as well make it our home page.

Thanks Skip for "inciting" this discussion....some very good points. I would have to agree mostly with what Skip, Ace and Hak are saying. I am not on FB and never have been, although I realize it has it's "up to date merits", I have had countless employees and seen many businesses using it for "oh look what I'm doing, I am special"....and in the case of restaurants then they do not update for weeks or months. I really like TC how it is now, even with it's imperfections, Hell, I know I am a Dinosaur...but like Skip...I want to see the damn photos also! :)

It is a good discussion, but all I did was report what the facts via Boardreader.com
Or got rum I think it was your question that got this going and that's good.
See you added to TC.
"What is your opinion on the reason?....."

"but like Skip...I want to see the damn photos also!"
It's an eye candy world and that's what most people want, I have posted info on stuff people see the photo and will ask a question that was answered in the text with the photo they were asking about.
This tells me they don't read the text.
And dam why post an event and NOT post photos after the event?
On one event I think it is because there was not a good turn out so the photos would show
and the photos would show three people riding a goat.

Most of what's posted here is "HEY look at me, or what I did, or am going to do"
That's fine and does help but TC needs more than that.

Was once in a online group that you had to be part of that group to see what was said and it was a bunch of Cali sucks, this guys an a$$ she's a biT4h.
I even chimed in, but after seeing and meeting some of the people we ripped on, then getting to know the people ripping on the tiki elite and finding they were a$$es some of them I gave that up.
To see the people suck up to the very tiki elite they talked SH*t about on the group was such BS!

I don't do Facebook but bet it's a lot of that kind of back stabbing stuff too.

One last thing Hakalugi is the ONLY one doing the BS work on TC!?
Man stop ripping on that guy! Sheesh!

TIKICENTRAL do work!

I'm "lowering morale with my complaints"....hmmm. I didn't think I actually complained, just pointed out a few flaws that I (and a few others no longer around) feel needed to be fixed. I'll know better for the future.

"Hakalugi is the ONLY one doing the BS work on TC!?
Man stop ripping on that guy! Sheesh! "

I guess when I said "Now, I'm not throwing the owners/moderators under the bus. Maybe they do care, maybe they don't, maybe TC is exactly what they want it to be...but to make TC great again, it would take changes, updates, promotion and those would have to come from the top.", I thought it covered I wasn't talking bad about anyone.

So since not a lot people currently posting here seem to agree with me that Tiki central needs to be responsible for bringing people back and some believe its solely up to the members here on TC... what needs to be done? What exactly is the plan and course of actions the members need to take? I'd love to hear details.

So now we know we aren't getting updates, fixes, promotion, and facebook isn't going away.... so as members, whats the plan to make TC awesome again?

[ Edited by: ErichTroudt 2016-10-28 11:09 ]

Sorry Erich, I think what gave me a sour stomach was this:

On 2016-10-27 15:47, ErichTroudt wrote:

TC staff have done nothing in years to make this place better. No updates, slow dealing with bullies, took forever to get the spam problem fixed, nothing new at all...

In any case, a big thank you to those who replied here or via PM in regards to being a moderator! I will do my best to work with Hanford and hopefully get some open moderator positions filled.

On 2016-10-28 10:40, tikiskip wrote:
Was once in a online group that you had to be part of that group to see what was said and it was a bunch of Cali sucks, this guys an a$$ she's a biT4h.
I even chimed in, but after seeing and meeting some of the people we ripped on, then getting to know the people ripping on the tiki elite and finding they were a$$es some of them I gave that up.
To see the people suck up to the very tiki elite they talked SH*t about on the group was such BS!

Yeah, I was a member of that group for like a day, then they realized I was friends with the people they were ripping on and booted me. Good riddance.

On 2016-10-28 11:08, ErichTroudt wrote:

So since not a lot people currently posting here seem to agree with me that Tiki central needs to be responsible for bringing people back and some believe its solely up to the members here on TC... what needs to be done? What exactly is the plan and course of actions the members need to take? I'd love to hear details.

Erich, I still think we don't need to worry about it and should leave it all in the hands of Hanford. Nobody "needs to be brought back." They either get it, or they don't get it. And if they are happy with Facebook, why worry about them? I do wonder who these folks are, by the way. I have read a number of times here about "the people who are gone," but who are they and what are we missing from them? Can we get more specific about the vacuum which they have left after their departure? How does their departure make TC stink? I really wonder if the issues you are concerned about are just the physical TC software itself, or is it the people who have left? You have talked about both of these, and they are really beyond our control on this free system.

There will always be those who are not satisfied. These last 20 or so messages in this thread, I think, have made it clear to me that those making the fuss really need to start supporting their assertions. Compared to Facebook, Erich, I'm wondering if you see much good here, or is it all dependent on getting new software and having other people come back to TC? Do all the current posters (like me) really stink this place up? I'd like to know, because Tiki Central has been a lot more civilized and pleasant this year, thanks to moderator efforts. Personally, I get better use and more information out of Tiki Central than I do from ANY Facebook thread. So I think we're being subjected to a somewhat skewed and unrealistic point of view. People who don't like Tiki Central are free to remain on Facebook alone if this place somehow just isn't right. But they should promise to stay away the next time they want to do some research on tiki cocktails, or whatever. :)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I hope nothing I just wrote came across harsh. It's not easy to write this sort of stuff and ensure that the hoped-for outcome came across.

“Yeah, I was a member of that group for like a day”
It was not purple orchid or whatever that purple group was.

“so as members, what’s the plan to make TC awesome again?’
Add content to TC and make it a place that people want to look at.
I have seen your bar thread and that is helpful type of posting.

“I have read a number of times here about "the people who are gone," but who are they and what are we missing from them? Can we get more specific about the vacuum which they have left”
To post those names could piss them off and I don’t want to do that for the first time in my life.

You know whenever a “bully” or nut or the flaming “that kills sites” goes on the numbers jump high here on TC, this whole kid gloves, safe zone TC may not be the answer.

Hey on Facebook you all know each other and that’s a big love fest (till you turn your back) but this is many different people adding what they got.

Look at what people chime in on most Save Rufus, The Mai Kai wall eBay sale, The IMP wars, ect.
So if the flaming hurts so bad why be drawn to it, why add to it?
TC does need to reign some folks in, that’s true from time to time.

In life there are bullies, nuts, and people that are good too.

Did you ever think maybe some of the people dissing TC don’t want TC to do well?
Divide and conquer.

TC still has great stuff to offer as well.

On 2016-10-28 11:42, Hakalugi wrote:
Sorry Erich, I think what gave me a sour stomach was this:

On 2016-10-27 15:47, ErichTroudt wrote:

TC staff have done nothing in years to make this place better. No updates, slow dealing with bullies, took forever to get the spam problem fixed, nothing new at all...

We'll my intention was not to sour your stomach, my intention was to give an opinion. And being a man, if I'm wrong, I'll apologize. So if the staff did something to make TC "better"..as in over an above regular maintenance....AKA better than it was previously...and did it in a timely fashion.... then I'll apologize...but someone would have to remind me what is was.

Hakalugi my goal is not to give you a hard time. Sounds like perhaps TC wouldn't survive without you, and if my "Complaints" (as you put it) caused a conversation that result in new moderators which help you, then it was all worth it.

Honestly its nice to know TC will never see any updates or fixes. It sucks, but at least we know not to expect anything. Like you said it is what it is...

Ace... your post was very nice and made a lot of good points and a few I disagree on.

TC has lots of good left. People like you and a few others are great and post wonderful stuff. I agree with you also that TC is nicer place now.

Some of the people that left or that were bullied away made some excellent contributions to TC, and it would be nice to have them return and contribute again.

I'm done with this thread. At least we know we are getting no software updates on TC, and it is what it is.....but maybe a few new Moderators to help so thats good.

[ Edited by: ErichTroudt 2016-10-28 13:30 ]

On 2016-10-28 13:10, tikiskip wrote:

I have seen your bar thread and that is helpful type of posting.

Yeah, I know you've seen my bar thread. You even said some nice things.....Then you erased them...four years later, you went back and erased the nice things you said....and it happened on the same day we disagreed on a topic in another thread. Interesting.

But Hey, Lets talk some more about helpful posting and what TC members can do help build TC up again.... I'm all ears to your thoughts and opinions....

On 2016-10-28 13:28, ErichTroudt wrote:

... if the staff did something to make TC "better"..as in over an above regular maintenance....AKA better than it was previously...and did it in a timely fashion.... then I'll apologize...but someone would have to remind me what is was.

...

How's about zero spam for the last ten months straight. Our previous record was four days. :)

Ha! That sounds like me.
Had a few beers and started thinkin hey these folks I post good things about never post on my thread so I went back and nixed some posts like that.
So that's what that was all about.

I don't know if that was right or wrong, but it's how I worked that out.
NOW I don't often post "hey that's great" for that reason.

TCers go out of their way to list all the great contributor's on TC and the great light makers and leave me out for all my efforts, it's so transparent what their doin.

Hey I just said your post was good for TC, But I'll erase that later.:) :P

I forgot to erase these.
I am a D!ck.

Quote me:
"Thanks Erich that is a good tip!"

"Erich that is very cool!
Do you ever burn and shellac your stuff?
I think that would look better and old if you did.

I love your room you did a great job on it.
Keep up the good work.
John"

"Again Thanks Sven and DixonAlibi you have given me new hope that all is not lost on TC.
This is what I come here for!"

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2016-10-28 17:16 ]

As a relatively new user (to this board), I'll present two positions. One is the alarmist version, the other is the reality version. All IMO.

The alarmist version is that it's not a matter of if the board crashes and you lose all the historical data, it's a matter of when. I wouldn't want to jinx anyone, but eventually hosts like to get you off their old servers and onto their newer platforms, a lot of times those transitions don't go smoothly. I'm a member of a different board on the interwebs that has been around since 1995 or 1996, I joined in 1997 (gretschpages.com). The moderator did a lot of work over the years trying different forum software, stabilized it each time, reimported old discussions, coded all kinds of new and exciting things, etc. Within the last two or three years (out of nowhere) the board database crashed, only minimal information was saved. Eventually it happens, these are just 1's and 0's. So with that said, if I see something I like on tikiroom/tikicentral, I save it, archive.org is nothing to rely on - it rarely can archive complex discussion board software. The wealth of information on this board is amazing, and database crash or two away from losing something that can never be fully recreated. (That being said, I don't know the backup process for this board, but I work in IT, your backup is only good if it actually restores when you want it to. I can't tell you then number of times we've backed up bad data for a month straight and then tried to restore it to no avail)

The reality version is that forums create pivot points for people who are interested in deeper conversation on whatever topic they're interested in and that search engines pick up. It doesn't matter if it's cars, guitars, tiki or basket weaving. Forums had a much larger place pre-facebook, and that's the reality - but the depth of discussion still has value. I find stuff about how to work on my cars archived on many forums - not on a facebook posts. Having been a member of gretschpages since my daughter was born (and is now 18), I've found that all discussion boards follow the same cycles of boom/bust and there's much of the "things were better when...." regardless of when they joined. As a new user here I can tell there was a boom on this board quite a few years ago, and things have quieted down since. I can also understand the "Back in My Day" sentiment, when I was really active on the other board, that was my favorite time. I can't bring back the excitement about it that I had 18 years ago - it's just not possible.

It my mind it isn't as much about what tiki central needs to bring new users. This site has a user base already, there's a billion links from any search engines that point directly here. I'm sure this site isn't hurting for users, however some people would prefer more active users - how many lurkers visit? Is a better idea engaging those users who aren't commenting but are lurking and figure out how to engage their input?
People who thought that gretschpages needed to be improved created their own forums and did things the way they thought they should be done. Along those lines, here's a great tack from one of the managers of one of my other volunteer gigs:

Me: Hey, I have this great idea about how our organization can do this thing

Manager: Say, that is a great idea, how are YOU going to implement it and put it into action?

Lastly, being a site admin/moderator is the most thankless job I can imagine. Something that many people take on as a part-time unpaid "fun thing to do" become overwhelmingly time consuming to the point where there's not enough time in the day. The internet is 24 hours a day and it's pretty obvious that all kinds of personality types mixing in one central location need a mediator/day-care monitor which is more than even a part-time mod can do over the long term without being burned out. People have a misconception that a forum is a democracy, it's really not even though it masquerades as it's own "thing" and we get all upset about freedom of speech, etc. But I digress.

So, this was kind of rambling, and again all In My Option, for whatever it's worth.

Kudos to everyone who have the passion to be involved in somthing like this - it has immense value (historical and present day) if you TL/DR this I don't blame you. :)

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-10-31 07:21 ]

the_devils_tool that is some great insight there, thanks for adding.
Love to here of real life "been there done" that kind of info like you posted.

And the point about hey the "thrill is gone" is true and part of the slow down.
But then did the trill not die for tiki after it first came out and then be brought back to life?

Maybe it's time for tiki to sleep a bit and rise another day.

Looks like the buy rare tiki stuff for retirement plan will turn out to be a good one for those who went that route.

Some good points were made here though over the last few days.

Interesting that the national commercial Tiki bar scene appears to be ramping up, while the Tikiphile scene may be going into a "burn out" mode. No, question Facebook seems to be the favored channel for Tiki interests & communication these days.

"Interesting that the national commercial Tiki bar scene appears to be ramping up"

I wonder is it?
Trader Vic's closes a place every year it seems, AND puts up no new stores.
Here it Ohio in the recent past we lost two and gained two, I think it's only two we gained.
So that's a push.

BUT you got me thinking there should be a tiki bar tread that tells how many tiki bars there are open in the USA and also a list for other parts of the world.
State by state, Country by country.
No reviews just a list.
I think Critiki has this, Yes?
It could be up dated from time to time to add bars or mark them closed this would be a good resource for writer types doing an article on tiki in the future as well.
It could help them even if some of them will give you no credit for making their job easer.

I want to urge you or another TC person to start this thread for the good of the tiki world, I would do it but there are folks who are small and petty and may not add info to this thread should it be a thread by me.

I would add what info I have to help this endeavor.

Here it is TCer who asks " what can I do to help TC"

Ohio we got.
1.Grass skirt
2.Porco

In fact kenbo-jitsu just post updates to locating tiki, thank you kenbo-jitsu but out of the 12 or so bar he posted 10 are closed.
Most of the bars posted were not in the USA.

And Critiki DOES have a list of tiki bars.
Find that here....
https://critiki.com/

On 2016-10-29 13:40, lucas vigor wrote:

I blame Buzzy for the fact that I'm totally bat shit crazy, and also blame him for me quitting my band.

How many times you going to wave your dick in the tiger's cage, get swiped, and then cry to world about how mean the old tiger is to you?

Buzzy Out!

As a long time lover of TIKI CENTRAL (I check daily as part of my routine), this thread makes me sad...but I feel there is a lot of truth in it.

I know it is "antiquated" but the old style forums blow away the current FACEBOOK-TWITTER run universe ("get off my lawn!"). Its a richer experience with more content and meaning.

That said: I am constantly hearing how the TC Karma has moved to FACEBOOK. Where exactly is that? Can I play?

On 2016-10-31 07:56, Bay Park Buzzy wrote:

On 2016-10-29 13:40, lucas vigor wrote:

I blame Buzzy for the fact that I'm totally bat shit crazy, and also blame him for me quitting my band.

How many times you going to wave your dick in the tiger's cage, get swiped, and then cry to world about how mean the old tiger is to you?

Buzzy Out!

Did I name you? Nice edit of my post. Anyway, here you are, right on schedule. I left out some details, but I will gladly add them in for everyone to see. I have never had a conversation with you. The only reason I know what you look like is that I have seen you vend at the ITMP, where my band had performed for 5 years (starting at when it was at Don's). I never had any business dealing with you, and never started any crap with you.

Your hatred and obsession with me began long ago, and was never a result of anything I said directly to YOU. Your mindless and unwarranted attacks of me on facebook (probably egged on by your girlfiend Liz) did indeed break up my band.

I have a pretty stressful daytime job, so I am selective about how I spend my weekends. If the vibe is good, I will gladly take gigs even though it means time away from my family. I used to enjoy doing it, because despite douchebags such as yourself, there are a lot of nice people from tiki central that I like entertaining.

But you are a malevolent person. I refused to spend even 5 minutes playing in a room where you are around. I don't need to spend my time with horrible people.
And whereas no band is perfect, I would have gladly continued playing with those guys probably forever, if not for you.

Yes, Buzzy Meeker, YOU are the reason our band broke up. I told Chris Garland that as long as someone like you was vending, I was not going to play that event anymore. Since that was the last recurring gig we had, that ended everything and not only that, caused me to lose a couple of good friends.

I know a bitter and horrible person like you will get a chuckle out of the chaos you caused by stalking me on facebook, but I never would have publically named you. In a way, I am glad you outted yourself. I wasn't going to name you at all. You did it for me. Excellent.

You may think you have won something here, but really, you have not. I turn down more gigs than I play these days, outside the tiki scene. But there may have been a few people here and there that appreciated vintage Hawaiian music (and evidenced by the fact that when we were doing Don's the main dining room was packed with people watching us) who will miss us. But as long as I never have to see your face again, I don't consider it my loss at all.

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2016-11-02 10:03 ]

"As a long time lover of TIKI CENTRAL (I check daily as part of my routine), this thread makes me sad...but I feel there is a lot of truth in it."

You can look at it as ONLY negative, or you can look at the facts then we all can make some changes to better the situation.

For me updates to TC don't matter.
But for the saving and backing up TC info part.

Plus these threads blow up and in time go back down to a sedate discussion with ebbs and flows.

Happy Halloween!

Discussions are good and even if slightly heated...healthy. I love TC and what I can learn about a long evolving (thanks Sven's Chart) trend in Dining/Drinking, and Entertainment. I personally don't need POW~NOW updates on everything...agreed the info that is here would never want to be lost. Party on and have a safe HallowTikiFreakinWeen.

On 2016-10-28 14:32, Hakalugi wrote:

On 2016-10-28 13:28, ErichTroudt wrote:

... if the staff did something to make TC "better"..as in over an above regular maintenance....AKA better than it was previously...and did it in a timely fashion.... then I'll apologize...but someone would have to remind me what is was.

...

How's about zero spam for the last ten months straight. Our previous record was four days. :)

I've noticed the lack of spam, and totally appreciate it! Good job!