Unpopular Tiki Opinions

Virtually every tiki drink is enhanced once the ice melts a little and is watered down. Even better, take a little sip of some leftover Mai Tai from the night before, tastes great! Sadly usually not much left the next morning. I wonder sometimes about making a pitcher of mai-tai's, letting it sit overnight and serving the next day. Kind of like marinating meat:)

On 2018-12-18 14:27, tiki-riviera wrote:
Virtually every tiki drink is enhanced once the ice melts a little and is watered down.

Wow, you may be on to something. The finely crushed ice could be the secret to what makes Hala Kahiki's drinks the best.

TT

Alternatively, you could shake longer, get proper dilution, and enjoy from the first sip... In turn, your drinks will go down faster and not get watered down.

This isn't meant to be a jab at you, just speaking from vast drinking experience. Some complex drinks do "open up" as they dilute but if your Mai Tai's aren't great from the moment you pour, you're doing something wrong.

On 2018-12-19 12:57, mikehooker wrote:
Alternatively, you could shake longer, get proper dilution, and enjoy from the first sip... In turn, your drinks will go down faster and not get watered down.

This isn't meant to be a jab at you, just speaking from vast drinking experience. Some complex drinks do "open up" as they dilute but if your Mai Tai's aren't great from the moment you pour, you're doing something wrong.

^^^ This right here

I thought this was LITERALLY the point of all the different assing-about with crushed ice, shaved ice, cubed ice,
shaking,
flash blending,
FULL blending,
open pours,
gated pours,
fantastical ice accessories (cones and shells, etc).

Otherwise we could just mix and shake stuff neat and pour it over the rocks, right? :wink:

---

“The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy also mentions alcohol. It says that the best drink in existence is the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster, the effect of which is like having your brains smashed out with a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.”

[ Edited by: Sandbartender 2018-12-21 14:06 ]

I do not care for clear plastic swizzle sticks, nor do I like the swizzles with gold or silver foil stamps.

Here's one that I hold and definitely think is unpopular, and is posted in the spirit of friendly discussion. Please hang in there with me - I'll make my statement and offer explanations and some examples of my position.

"Velvet Falernum" is not the real deal flavor-profile wise. Per conversations I have had with others who are WAY more knowledgeable than me, I came to understand we should all be using almost any falernum product other than "Velvet." Yet the "Velvet" version is continually gaining acceptance despite having a very tame flavor profile, and it's actually having the unfortunate effect of changing the recipes posted online for some classic tiki drinks.

Privately, the "Velvet" has been described by some as "the Coors Light of falernums." Does Velvet work? Sure. Is it authentically close to what was being used many decades ago? Based on taste tests, I maintain the position that it does not. For authenticity I have always been referred to Paul Clarke's #8 or #9 recipes, or similar store-bought, like B.G. Reynolds, or Fee Brothers. To be fair, the roots of falernum are in the home-made versions which are traditional in the Caribbean countries, so variations have always existed. My goal is to make my drinks with the appropriately similar falernum flavor profile which approaches those used for the real classic tiki drinks. "Velvet" just doesn't come close to the same impact and effect.

Now, having said all that, is there a need for more than one falernum? Sure - strong and weak can definitely be incorporated into our bars. I'm just trying to reduce casual blurring of the line between the newer less-bold variant and the older more-bold original flavor profile. Here are examples of what led me to write this post:

1. The Bum's recipe for the bourbon-based tiki drink "Western Sour" specifies "falernum" or "Falernum #9." I take this to mean the bolder expressions -- home-made #8, #9, and store-bought Fee's, Reynolds, etc.
2. https://www.3stofthemonth.com/ourrecipes/2014/9/24/western-sour takes the Bum's recipe and they state they "adapted" it with Velvet specified. I think this is not a correct adaptation, but for those who choose not to make falernum, they can easily find the mass-produced "Velvet" at their local big liquor store.
3. Similar is true here https://kindredcocktails.com/cocktail/western-sour but they are a bit more clear -- "falernum" or "Velvet falernum" -- indicating possibly that they recognize the differences in flavor between the products. In other words, this supports my assertion that "Velvet falernum" is not the same as "falernum" in general.

There is a difference, and these differences definitely impact our drinks, and taste-tests have confirmed this. And since falernum is so awesome of a tiki ingredient, I'm very careful with it and the recipes that use it. While I try to be flexible, and appreciate innovations, I do exercise more care with classics and the classic ingredients needed to fully enjoy them. In general, I think it's good to build awareness of the expanding range of the falernum flavor profile in our day and age. It's time-consuming and a challenge to make - even for the pros. But "Velvet" is a shortcut - it gets you there, but not with much authenticity. And I do recognize that not everyone wants to take the time to make the good stuff, so store-bought is their preferred or only option. But "Velvet" is SO much less than the others that I think we're at a point where we have to be more careful about differentiating between the "weak" and "strong" variations.

I know there are one or two threads here discussing this, but there is conflicting information posted there. "Velvet is awesome." "Velvet is not awesome, use Product X." I think this is going to come up more frequently in the future. It's just not talked about very much - maybe its not politically correct to hold this opinion despite taste tests confirming my opinion.

Do try the Western Sour though. It's bourbon-based and has the blessing of a number of tiki folks. Cheers!

[Edited to fix a few typos, and to more clearly state a couple of concepts.]

[ Edited by: AceExplorer 2019-01-06 07:08 ]

"I did put on my flame-proof asbestos tapa-printed bark-cloth underwear today, so feel free to flame"

Ok here ya go, More people care about the price of the drink than these high dollar "craft Cocktails"
Many of the new tiki bars I go to, as in before they open and talk about lights and drinks they all say "we are going to make Craft cocktails here"
They use good rums and those luxardo cherries, now those things are great but that bill come at the end of the night and that leaves a bitter taste in your mouth that you won't forget next time you go out.

I think they got in their mind this daydream that the food network will find them and do whole shows on them and how great their everything is.
That only happens VERY rarely and there are but a few tiki bars in the nation that make great drinks in my mind worth the 10 to 15 bucks they charge for them.

AND most of the time people are only going to these places as a special night or even a vacation type deal.

Man dial the cost back get the booze and money for that matter FLOWIN.
Fun starts when people are a bit juiced up and a busy place is fun, it's exciting.
The place starts to hum, you and your customers can FEEL it.

They can also feel a dead boring bar.

I know because the restaurant I had 14 years ago was cheap, oh I served great food but the average ticket price was 5 to 7 bucks.
That was every thing the burger fries and a drink!

MAN it would get so busy the phone ringing place packed people would watch me at the grill tickets stacked end to end three feet long, they would not leave till I snapped or got through all those tickets.

We would see other employees outside my window from places next door looking in to see if we were busy, and we were, they were dead.

I was "the king of Lynn Ally" one old timer restaurateur said with more than a bit of resentment in his voice, he went out of business quickly.

We made a lot of money off of a lot of people, but it was volume, a dollar here, and a buck there.

I kid Ace about the flame, It's great the time you put into your drinks and that's fine for the home I guess, for me all that fancy exotic drink ingredient stuff is over for the most part as we did that too at home some time ago.

One guy we knew would make these drinks from this new drink book with all this fancy S**T
They were ok, I think he just wanted an excuse to buy all those fancy ingredients his wife would bit*h about.

It was nice of him to do but, a regular Mai Tai giving him more time to BS and talk would have been better.

Thanks Skip, good points. Last time I went to Frankie’s in Las Vegas they were making falernum by hand. And about 5 miles from me is a really nice little tiki bar that claims to make their own as well. This choice depends on a lot of factors. I thought about deleting my post in case it was douche-baggy. But hey, it’s truly my opinion, and I don’t look down on people, was just noticing how the lines are getting blurred which would impact those who don’t know more. Falernum, cinnamon syrup, Don’s Mix, and a number of others are subtle but major players in some outstanding cocktails. So I think my concern is justified and these sorts of things are worth talking about. I’m very pleased that cocktails have made such a nice resurgence. Let’s hope we never see a return to the dark days of the 70’s and 80’s again.

I think it's great to make great drinks, and even study doing so.
And all restaurant bars should have good food drinks but the Myth of "they cost so much because of the large amt of booze and the quality of the booze" is many times just not true.

But I was mostly talking about commercial tiki bars.

Here is a review of a local place that I was told would have "Craft cocktails" and the reviews are in, many sound like this one, many others talk about the slow service.

So this place and others would do their customers a favor if they put more time into just getting people a drink of any kind and cleaning up the place.
And if not for the many tiki nutz here the review scores inflated by the generous tiki nutz, ratings would be terrible.

To hide in the back of the bar while people want to get some service is just nutz but it happens a lot.

What is douche-baggy is to hear one of these "Mixologists" as they call themselves sit behind their dirty bar while people wait for service and talk about the great drinks they can make or the homemade mixers they make and use at the bar.

To a professional bartender service is number one or should be.

So sorry not aimed at you Ace I think there are people that rise above others in what they do and should have a title such as Mixologists or a drink that is called craft.
Tiki Ti comes to mind as a great tiki drink or even the Mai Kai.

But it's mostly not what I have seen in Ohio.

9/21/2018
"Unfortunately this place doesn't live up to the name of Tiki Bar. The drinks are very weak, almost to the point if wondering if there's any liquor even involved. The tables are awkward. Bathroom was very dirty. Free leis were cool"

Remember the Kahiki was known for not great food the drinks were so so but it was fun and cheap, and the service was good.
That is from the 80s on, I don't really know how it was early on.

And then you have customers who just don't know what to order. But they know they're safe with Jack & Coke, Rum & Coke, (whatever) & Coke. Happens at bars all the time. It's not necessarily wrong, but it underscores your suggestion that service is paramount - it's great fun when bartenders can help educate their customers while providing speedy and competent service.
And I observe that's happening to a much greater extent now than in the 70's and 80's. Good points, and good discussion. Time to go make that Harvey Wallbanger I've been dreaming of all day, ha...

I don't think I've ever had a Harvey Wallbanger, but I looked it up, basically vodka and orange juice with a float of Galliano. Basically a citrusy and aromatic drink. It was very popular in the early 70's, when drinks were given some very funny and innuendo-laden names. Haven't heard it mentioned in a long time.

Why would anybody make a habit out of going to bars in the first place?

Bars suck.

Good rums are about $1 per ounce. They're raping you.

Make your own. It's easy. Invite some friends over. Don't blow your hard earned cash on drinks you don't like in cruddy bars with sticky seats, no live music, boring clientele and sneering bartenders.

Because I don't have to clean the toilets and the floors and make my house presentable first? Or because I don't have to make my wife play host when she'd rather be writing? Or because I have young kids and having rowdies over to the house will wake them up? Or because I don't have time to run all over town getting fresh mint and other garnishes? Or because I don't feel like spending time making bar snacks? Or because I don't feel like cleaning the dozens of glasses that even a small gathering seems to generate? And most importantly, I can go home and go to bed whenever I like!

Now this is from someone who has a pretty good-sized bar in his house, and entertains quite often, but it sometimes it is really nice to let someone else do all of the work! I just wish there was a half-way decent bar of any kind near my house!

Ha! TikiHardBop we used to do that what a pain, but it was fun too.

But we want commercial tiki bars to do well and that is why we want them to up their game, (the bad ones) and stay open.
But you don't want the first time a person goes to a tiki bar to be a bad time.

And as Sven said it's not all about the food and booze it is about the trip back in time and the cool atmosphere.

We go to tiki bars mostly the old ones to see the incredible décor, talk to the bar folks, and to have a fun night out.

The Kahiki drinks/food were famously bad for many years, but we went often.

Went to a tiki bar here and the bartender filled pepper shakers and said nothing five feet away, nobody else was there boring as heck.

Because I don't have to clean the toilets and the floors and make my house presentable first? Or because I don't have to make my wife play host when she'd rather be writing? Or because I have young kids and having rowdies over to the house will wake them up? Or because I don't have time to run all over town getting fresh mint and other garnishes? Or because I don't feel like spending time making bar snacks? Or because I don't feel like cleaning the dozens of glasses that even a small gathering seems to generate? And most importantly, I can go home and go to bed whenever I like!

Now this is from someone who has a pretty good-sized bar in his house, and entertains quite often, but it sometimes it is really nice to let someone else do all of the work! I just wish there was a half-way decent bar of any kind near my house!

Unpopular opinion- I HATE pufferfish lamps.

They're just about the sweetest creatures in the ocean, and it makes me sad to see them killed just for a lamp.

I wish there was a decent way to make a good looking fake one.

I think the Puffer lamps were started very long ago.
Would guess that a puffer fish in a net would die, is that right?

If it would die them making it into a lamp would at least save the fish just being thrown away and not used at all.

But then they made lights out of all kinds of sea life and still do.

If you think about it just having a car or living in a house displaces animals and kills em that way too, although not as directly.

In our neighborhood the deer are crammed in not much food the only thing that kills them is a car or if they brake their leg and hobble around for a long time and die slowly.

I guess when they fall in a pool as has happened here too they die a bit quicker that way.

Puffer fish are cool though.

In Hawaii they think they come back as Sharks so they don't like the shark jaws thing.
Nobody ever thinks they come back as a cockroach so we can kill them.

Hey! We just caught a keeper right off our coast!

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2019/01/11/monster-puffer-fish-cocoa-angler-hooks-potential-world-record-breaker-off-port-canaveral/2534704002/

Partial text of story:

The bizarre-looking sea creature Adhem Saleh brought back to Sunrise Marina puzzled veteran fishermen and charter captains: "Everyone was like, 'It's a crazy parrotfish or something,'" he recalls.

Turns out Saleh had reeled in a potential world record-shattering oceanic puffer fish. The Cocoa resident caught the 9.65-pound whopper Monday offshore near Port Canaveral.

"I thought it was amazing. It was the biggest puffer fish I've ever seen in my life," said Jason Fifer, who runs Reel Trick Charters and boasts 22 years of offshore fishing experience.

I have to agree about pufferfish. The lights are cool, but the fish are by-catch, a terrible ecological waste. I don't have a problem with ethical consumption of animals, but with puffers they're turned into lamps just because they happen to be there. I also have a problem with dried seahorses and the like for souvenirs. I've kept brackish Figure 8 puffers in the past, and damn, they're surprisingly intelligent. I'm not going to begrudge anyone who has a lamp like this, but yeah, I'd like a good fake alternative.

Are there many Puffer fish or are they few in numbers?
Would think nothing could eat them, we can but don't eat them often.

If they are like the grey Squirrel here we need to start making clothes with them as they are EVERYWHERE.
Don't want to get too bent just cuz they are cute.

Chipmunks here are cute and there are way too many of them.

At times it can help the population to thin out a type of animal due to overcrowding, way too many deer in our neighborhood.
But people would flip if one was shot.

Don't know the stats on puffer fish.

And here is a short answer from the net.
Would guess that mostly Asian people eat these fish as I've never seen it served here in USA.
Kinda like shark fins and rhino horn, we don't use that stuff.

So if the Asians want to eat you look out you may disappear. I kid.

Side note the top five global polluters are also Asian.
So you can't stop anything till they get onboard with the program.

"Poisonous puffers are believed to synthesize their deadly toxin from the bacteria in the animals they eat. Some species of pufferfish are considered vulnerable due to pollution, habitat loss, and overfishing, but most populations are considered stable."

"Some species are considered vulnerable enough to become endangered because of pollution. Overfishing also threatens pufferfish populations. Blowfish flesh is considered a delicacy, despite the fact that its toxin is 1,200 times more poisonous to humans than cyanide."

Sigh Nobody attacked me for my unpopular tiki opinion a few days ago. I got upstaged by - pufferfish!

:)

On 2019-01-07 10:29, Cammo wrote:
Why would anybody make a habit out of going to bars in the first place?

Bars suck.

Good rums are about $1 per ounce. They're raping you.

Make your own. It's easy. Invite some friends over. Don't blow your hard earned cash on drinks you don't like in cruddy bars with sticky seats, no live music, boring clientele and sneering bartenders.

Some bars have cute bartenders who are fun to look at and talk to. And you can learn stuff at a good bar. Want to up your tiki cocktail game? Drink at some of the tiki bars in my city and talk to the bartenders.

I agree, prices of rums are high at bars, but you're paying for the decor, the rum selection, the fresh garnishes, (hopefully) good service, good food, and much more. And you know what - you can find ALL these things in my city. So I have at home what could be one of the biggest and best-stocked home bars in my city. And I still find reasons to go to bars. Oh yeah, not the crappy disgusting ones but the good ones. There are exceptions though -- sometimes you need a crappy dive bar to enjoy some scotch with a stinky cigar -- so occasionally you can find me at Island Girl, or St. Nicks Lounge. So I wouldn't rail against bars too loudly - they're not for everyone. But some of us have good reasons to go out once in a while and pay $5 or $6 for straight pours of some distilled goodness at a dive bar. (Or $10-$12 at a fancy-schmancy bar)

I'm still amazed that tiki has returned to my city. It's probably fairly close to the kind of stuff that existed here in the 50's and 60's in terms of variety, atmosphere, commitment to tiki authenticity, etc. but probably a bit more "polished" and "refined." Don't shoot me for saying that, but I hope you see where I'm coming from in making that statement. We're again officially a city with some pretty dang good tiki.

Man I love a "dive bar" Or an old bar that's where it's at.
Real people.

At most high dollar bars you don't talk to the whole bar, you don't talk about cartoons or songs of old.
You sit and drink your drink and they sit and drink their drink bill comes done.

What did the star bowling pin mean?
I just left Windward Passage and we never could remember what the star bowling pin meant at a bowling lane.

THAT'S what I go out for fun stupid $hit that doesn't matter and doesn't piss anybody off.

The whole bar was in on the convo.

We did find that eddy Haskell was Wally's friend and lumpy was Beavers friend.
And Maynard G. Krebs was bob Denver.

Important stuff like that.

I go to be entertained, and to entertain.

Many tiki oriented events are absurdly expensive for what amounts to a flea market with music. Tikibeat in san diego is $25, a bargain, Including food. But it’s only four hours long.

[ Edited by: santa 2019-07-29 08:12 ]

Are you saying you think Tiki Beat is too expensive?

Drunken parties with thousands are every festival, big Halloween party, concert and sporting event. The biggest tiki fest is tiny by big festival and convention standards.
I don’t like the big emphasis on selling everything. And charging another ticket price for everything.

On 2018-04-26 07:35, EnchantedTikiGoth wrote:

I don't go to Tiki conventions because drunken parties with thousands of people aren't my thing, but it's cool if it's your thing. Have fun.

I'm sure the folks who run these festivals would love to hear your plans! As a long-time member of the Hukilau organizing community, I can promise you that they are trying to keep the costs as low as possible and that nobody is making tons of money off of these events.

The ticketing is another issue that all the organizers struggle with. Put everything on one ticket and the ticket price soars and people complain about paying for stuff that doesn't interest them. These events usually also have to find a way to balance the interests of those who travel for the event and the locals who want to come and go to the event throughout its run.

Feel free to contact the organizers of any of these events and ask them to list just a few of the literally thousands of issues and unexpected costs that come with organizing events such as these. I am sure they will give you an earful!

"I don’t like the big emphasis on selling everything. And charging another ticket price for everything."

Man it's all about the stuff, the event mugs, t-shirts ect...
And even the vendors.

Church is free, go there if you want damn near free everything.

On 2019-07-29 16:31, tikiskip wrote:

Church is free, go there if you want damn near free everything.

Not that free. I clearly remember a tithe that, while entirely voluntary LOL, was supposed to be 10% of your take home pay.
Not that I've crossed the threshold of "holy ground" in almost 3 decades... Worried about bursting into flames. :wink:

"Not that free. I clearly remember a tithe that, while entirely voluntary LOL"

Can you even imagine a voluntary payment plan at tiki events!
Ha! the vendors would all pay the same amount that the popular tiki art folks pay, zero.

Heck in Ohio the tithe they would pay might not be that much money at all, in fact you would end up giving some people money to come to your event, Ha!

Even though I have said that vendor costs are too high and the hours too long for vending, these events need to make some money, come on.

Santa you need to stop giving away toys and maybe get a better job so you can afford these events, the price seams to be a big issue for you.

Last event I vended at (not a tiki related event) the dealer's fee for a 10'x10' space was nearly $400 for the weekend, and by the time you added in hotel costs you were nearly at $900 and that's without any food or drink expenses.

Yeah see to me that's NUTZ!

"nobody is making tons of money off of these events."
I bet they make more than the Vendors do.

And if you find a way to "Not make any money" at throwing an event then all the better as the tax guy won't want any.

PLUS the vendors are non paid parts OF the event, in fact they PAY for the fun of sitting at a booth the whole time of the event.
The last dinner service sucks as you eat at 10:00 and miss all the fun stuff.
That's a fine thank you.

Come on guys you KNOW that's not fair.
Not for me.

The IN crowd gets to set up for like the first day then they are done and party the whole rest of the time, NO other vendors can do that and come back.
Some are paid to come to the damn thing.

This is what I call Noloha, short for No Aloha.

And your solution to this dilemma would be....?

For one thing don't MAKE the vendors vend for the whole show.

DON'T tell them to go to the late dinner sitting.

Charge less for the vending spots.
Why not do something for the vendors, you know thank you type stuff.

This was some time ago that I speak of but if you were not one of the chosen ones you were not treated well.

Everybody was so busy thanking themselves for being the end all of tiki there was no thanks left for anybody else.

But then this thread is "Unpopular Tiki Opinions" lots of people vending at that time felt the way I did.

This may have changed but then the fee is still too high.

We all know the vending is a big part of the events it's not something you do to make money really as the money you have in the items you sell and the costs of going/staying at the show WAY outnumbers any money you make vending.

Many of the venders want to take part in the event too, and that is just not possible if you vend.

The smart people vend from their cars or rooms, but then only a few people can get away with that trick.

i think this guy would agree with you.

on a more serious note, i agree with skip about the above - as for us, it has mostly been more about getting rid of stuff a'la a yard sale, than trying to turn a profit.

That is true JD but if you get people that are just trying to get rid of stuff then think of what they are going to sell, not the best and cool stuff tiki people would want.

I saw a guy at the event I was at the guy was much like JD in that he sold stuff he would find at thrift stores and put a small mark up on his items, he had cool stuff.
And he was busy and sold a lot.

He also had LOTS of stuff, that to me was MANY hours of looking for the stuff over many years, then he hauled it there and set it up.

Plus he spent the WHOLE event at that booth.

He did make some money I would guess but damn not much.

You would do much better on eBay, or even a garage sale as you don't need to drive it there pay for a booth and even tickets to the events you won't be seeing, plus get a room.

He would have been lucky to clear 2 cents an hour that weekend.

All you need to do is ask yourself, "would I be happy doing what we want that person to do for the money that he/she is going to make"

Soon you run out of people that are new and don't know that it is not a good idea.

What I've observed in my limited vending experience pretty much lines up with tikiskip's comments.

I've only vended locally in Houston. Luckily, all the events have been no fee or low fee. I don't think I could afford to vend at any high dollar events. At the end of the day I'm making minimum wage money (if that). I'm vending in Austin pretty soon, so that will be gas, travel time, hotel, eating out, and a small booth fee. Luckily, since it's close and pretty low cost, I might break even.

If you're charging a significant vending fee, why on earth would you also make a bunch of rules the vendors have to follow? One event did entertain the idea of asking all vendors to donate a small item to be used as raffle give-aways during the show. I wasn't really happy with that idea either. Better to have it be on a volunteer basis or the show buys items from you for the raffle.

In the end, I do the shows to get my art work out there and hang with my buddies. But it's not like I need the shows. I'm always seriously behind on requests from friends and family. And I don't have aspirations of it becoming a full time gig.

"In the end, I do the shows to get my art work out there"

And that is the reason to do it.
you will see people that want what you sell, lots of them.

Well the guy across from me had TWO spaces at Hukilau and sold MAYBE one item.
Man he got crushed and he was right next to me and saw me with lines of people.
He was sellin the wrong stuff.

But if you are selling just tiki stuff that you did not make, why the heck try to get your name out there?

Just got back from Palm Springs.

The whole appallingly non-mod scene there reminded me of a few things that apply not just to the modernism movement, but Tiki and any sort of interest in retro art, music, fashion or architecture:

If it doesn't concern french fries, beer, bad 70's music, wearing jeans, t-shirts or women wearing something cheap and sparkly then it's a pretty tough sell on the American market.

Talking to almost anyone about retro fashion? They think you are talking about "old t-shirts."

"Tiki? Like that Eagles song? What was it? Hotel California? Or what was that Buffett song?"

"That tropical dress is cute, how did they get all those sequins to stick? Is it washable?"

"I like wearing an aloha shirt with my jeans. It's real retro, I know, but I like it anyway."

"I didn't wash my hair this week. I'm trying to make it look like it was in 1971."

"How much is that mug? That's too much. Will it hold a beer?"

"Where's Polynesia?"

"I don't like Spam. It's bad for you. So is pork. Do they serve hamburgers here?"

"Why is it so dark in here? Why are we here? Let's go somewhere else! I'm not staying here!"

"What's that elevator music you have on?! What? What the %$& is TIKI MUSIC?"

"Does that come with fries? NO? WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO?"

"Can I take a selfie with you? I think your shirt is funny. Are you from Hawaii?"

"This drink is too sweet. I can't even taste the alcohol. How much was it? You're kidding!"

...they just don't get it....

You know what vendors cost me at Hukilau? $5 That's what the hotel wants to set up a table. I think I charged $50 or $75 last time I recall. The room was free.

There is limited space in the room, so maybe you have to put some price on there to hopefully keep quality, but I also agree with most of skip's comments about limiting the time for vending and a majority of the vendors I talk to agree. Those that disagree would likely get their minds changed after doing it that way once and seeing their sales be just as good but their quality of life go way up.

I want an "Old Fogey Pass" at events. I want to pay a smaller fee to just go to the presentations, hit the vendors and leave before the bands and parties start. One of my friends says he, like me, really does presentations to have free access to do as I describe above. Paying full price to not do all those other things kind of sucks.

I'm doing another "event" next year at the Mai-Kai. No ticket. No vendors unless someone shows up selling stuff in their room or truck. Music maybe. Room party where me and whomever make drinks and we hang out. Presentations in rooms or the lobby. everybody mostly knows everybody. Small vintage hotel. A vacation with adult friends where we do some things together and meet up at the Mai-Kai at the end of the day and do some special events there. Easy.

Good luck with your event Swanky.
We might be able to make it who knows.
But then I should not be around people for the most part as I am a grumpy old man at this stage of life, my mom put it best "the world made me this way"

"limiting the time for vending and a majority of the vendors I talk to agree"

You know when I posted that I thought there would be people saying "yeah he's right" but almost nobody if anybody said much of anything.

Most of the time it's not till years later that people go "Skip was right", But they leave out the Skip part.

Your carving event was fun so the new event should go well, good luck with it.

As I am the king... natural king of unpopular opinions... and this topic feels like my kingdom... my cozy home... So it would be nice of me to open my mouth here instead of elsewhere. So... Here's some of my thoughts that come to my mind at moment:

1. Tiki Bars and Copycats
   I have a great respect to Donn Beach (even though I've never known him personally, I don't know all the secrets and wellknown stuff that I just haven't come to know about) and pretty much all ("pretty much all" and "all" is not the same actually) the others I could call copycats, including Trader Vic and Mai Kai). Point is that Donn Beach knew exactly what he was doing or willing to do, he had the illusion in his mind. Others thought "that's cool" and did the same. No, it's not bad to make a tiki bar, or pre-tiki exotic bar or to use same ideas etc, etc, etc, no, BUT!!! ...if we are looking into the menu... Donn Beach invented the liquid stuff and named them... He did not do much bullsh*t like "tropical sunshine","pacific elixir","eenie-meenie-maanie-moe"... No, he named them "Zombie","Test Pilot","Cobra's Fang","Skull and Bones","Pearl Diver" etc. Some of the names really tells the story of the drink! What did others? Own Zombie, Jet Pilot, Sidewinger's Fang, Shrunken Skull, Skin Diver... Trader Vic made its "own""Suffering Bastard", which is basically Mai Tai and has no any resemblance to real Suffering Bastard. So... You all know the story... Yes, ofcourse, same has been done to Trader Vic's Mai Tai by all the so-called cocktail bars and beach bars all over the world, I guess it's called "karma". If you're a good mixolog as they all say they are, make your own history! Don't ride on Donn's back! It's fine if the cocktail the bar has is not the best, that's fine, fine as long as it doesn't claim to be anything else that its not. Also it's fine to use somebody else's cocktails in your bar with same name and same recipe and not claiming it to be yours, that's fine. But the way it is so popular to do, kills all the respect.

2. Menu Descriptions
   There's so many historical great cocktails, most of them has a great story behind them, their origin, their past etc. But... "From one of the most unknown fruits, the essencesre extracted to make up this wise mix that even gods crave drinking." ...or listen to this: "Extracted from the spring flowers nectar and mixed with the morning dew, it gets this delicate flavor that will surprise the most sophisticated palate." One more: "The Kahuna (Guardians of the Secret) discov red in the jungles of the highlands, the power of this heady elixir wisely combined with banana juice." Ok-ok, one more: "Evil sorcerer under the hot sun of the South Seas, invoked their gods through the nectar of this delicious nectar." These are some of the descriptions of the tiki cocktails from one of the tiki menus. That's from Europe, but I know it's pretty similar in USA... Something like: "The old established hearty cocktail of the Pacific." (about fake Mai Tai, by Orchids of Hawaii, 1981). In Estonia there is age-restriction for drinking alcoholic drinks... I guess there's same kinda restriction all over the world. So why to write this kind of bullsh*t to grown-up people??? I'm a childish, yes, I am, but nobody in legal drinking age can be THAT childish! "Under the heat of the tropics the famous sorcerer with his secret potion will teach us unknown dimensions." "Beverage used by a wicked queen so that every living being succumbs to its charms."

3. Crushed Ice
   It's a "must be" of crushed ice for tiki drinks. But at home I always use only cubes. Why? At first it got very annoying to crush the ice and I don't have ice crusher. But after a while I found out that crushed ice dilutes the drink too heavily. In any bar, good one or bad one, I get the drink, it might be very good... for at first... but second half of the drink tastes like flavored water. I drink too slow? Well... Well-well, maybe. But cubes are doing their job perfectly. There's no problem to shake the liquid ice-cold. The liquid stays with cubes ice-cold till it's done and gone into my body. I see no problems to use cubes instead of crushed ice... as long as we are not talking about filling the glass to the top for a visual reasons. My small glasses are in matching size for 4...6 oz of drink and therefor it's always filled with a tastiness from top to the bottom end. There's still dilution, but just as much as it should be, does not ruin the drink.

4. Mixologists and Bartenders
   There's being some arguement of who is mixolog and why all bartenders are not mixologs and usually it's mixed about talking about prestige and such bullsh....... For me I think it's very clear. Mixolog is one profession, bartender is another, different duties. Mixolog is the one who figures out recipes, who puts together the menu of the drinks, who invents cocktails or re-discovers the old ones. If you are trying to make up your own drink, doesn't matter, are you good or bad, but you are doing mixology and you are mixolog. Bartender is the one who serves clients behind the bar and mixes drinks according to recipes. Bartender can also be mixolog, but usually is not. Mixolog is same as "prestige" as medical doctor. Some doctor may kill more people (accidentially) than he saves, but he is still a doctor, not a good doctor, but still a doctor. Same with mixolog. Anyone who is interested about it, can be mixolog. It doesn't mean he's good in it, but if he does the thing, he is mixolog. Simple as that.

5. Tiki Mugs
   Don't get me wrong, I like tiki mugs. I made my own tiki mugs too. I'm not good in it, but I wanted it and did it, and I'm very interested about all kind of tiki mugs, in artistic ways, in historical ways and so on. But for drinks I prefer glass. I want to SEE my drink, its color and everything. Drink in glass tastes better (not factually true, but feels that way). Glass makes the drink more valuable (not factually true, but feels that way). In mug it feels like bar is fooling you with a visual appearance. At home I still use sometimes my mugs for a drink, but not too often. I know I'm not the only one thinking that way.

6. Tiki Art
   Don't get me wrong, I like tiki art. Is it paintings or garvings or mugs or decors or... what ever it is, yes, it's interesting... Also I like when people are doing things from the bottom of the heart... But... For now the tiki thing has gone far from it's roots and has lost its connection with Polynesia. It's separated from one fantasy-world and lives in its own fantasy-world without any respect to the things what is sacred for somebody else. Culture of another people is just a unlimited fun for other people. It's like a zoo... or for better understanding like a human zoo from Victorian era... I guess no explanation is necessary. It's always been that way. As we know all the tiki culture bases on it. Well, actually, very unpopular opinion, even though I'm interested about tiki culture, but much more I like, as Kirsten names it, pre-tiki era... Again honor to Donn Beach, who did it more clean way... He mirrored the things what white man sees in pacific paradise. But tiki era makes just fun about this pacific paradise. And tiki revival era has gone as far from the roots that it actually has lost all the greatness of it (up to Star Wars shaped tiki mugs for example). It's something like '80s cocktails, lot of neon colors and sweetness, but no real value. So... I like great tiki temples, Kahiki and Mai Kai and I really like Trader Vic's style of the restaurant etc., but in other way I think it all started to go wrong from the very beginning of the tiki era... Just look at those decorations... Look at those tikis from tiki temples, but most of all modern type of tikibars... What are they? Bullsht are they in many cases! (I'm not talking about Trader Vic's Marquesa style tikis or Kahiki's Moais...) Tikis which does not mean anything, just some crap made out to put something up. Ok, some are made professionally, artistically and look good, but some are not even that. I've been always kept saying: if to do something, do it right! Well, good example is a Tiki Bob. For now it is historical (not natively historical, but historical of tiki pop culture) and for now I like Tiki Bob (after ~60 years from its birth) and especially I like how Wendy and Dan are making them with passion in any possible way. But if we take us to the birth of Tiki Bob, then I would only say that "what-a-fck-is-that???" That's just one example, but the same goes for the all them tikis which actually does not mean anything. Tiki should have more value than just "being cool". Tiki culture would be much more interesting for me if it would stay stuck in its origins.

7. Jimmy Buffett
   I don't hate Jimmy Buffett. I'm not a big fan of his music, but it's nice to listen sometimes. It's not tiki, but he's nice to listen sometimes. I've never listened him much (yet!), but I don't hate Jimmy Buffett. He's doing the music he likes and I don't think he has ever said that the thing he is doing is tiki.

Tickets available for hanging this dude show, don't miss your opportunity, probably next Sunday at city center square... Don't be late, butcher doesn't wait!

I was just thinking...

Is Tiki Culture so interesting because White American Culture is just so incredibly bland?

Like, is Tiki so colorful just because our own hotels are so beige to begin with? Man, I was around in the 60's and most hotels were BORING. They were not downtown Las Vegas, crap, if they had a pool and color TV they were barely interesting enough to stay at for an hour beyond checkout time.

We see pictures of all these neato colorful 60's space age places but it was not the norm. Just like now.

Hmmmmm....

On 2019-12-15 18:23, Cammo wrote:
I was just thinking...

Is Tiki Culture so interesting because White American Culture is just so incredibly bland?

You are not the first person to make that observation. In his book "Mondo Exotica,' writer Francesco Adinolfi makes the point that tiki was a way for Americans, always somewhat crushed by the Puritanical attitudes that the Pilgrims brought with them, to go "pagan." It was a safe way to throw off Judeo/Christian values and European culture for a bit.

If it doesn't concern french fries, beer, bad 70's music, wearing jeans, t-shirts or women wearing something cheap and sparkly then it's a pretty tough sell on the American market.

Let's start a business (call it "American Crap" maybe?) that sells all that stuff, retire in a few years, and open a tiki bar!

[ Edited by: MrFab 2019-12-18 09:05 ]

Tiki is not part of the mainstream, which is what makes it attractive to me. It's an alternative to the drab, corporatized, sanitized, commercialized crap that pervades all of existence. The fact that it doesn't sell nor attract a lot of followers is something to be celebrated, but quietly!

On 2019-07-30 18:18, tikiskip wrote:
For one thing don't MAKE the vendors vend for the whole show.

DON'T tell them to go to the late dinner sitting.

Charge less for the vending spots.
Why not do something for the vendors, you know thank you type stuff.

This was some time ago that I speak of but if you were not one of the chosen ones you were not treated well.

Everybody was so busy thanking themselves for being the end all of tiki there was no thanks left for anybody else.

But then this thread is "Unpopular Tiki Opinions" lots of people vending at that time felt the way I did.

This may have changed but then the fee is still too high.

We all know the vending is a big part of the events it's not something you do to make money really as the money you have in the items you sell and the costs of going/staying at the show WAY outnumbers any money you make vending.

Many of the venders want to take part in the event too, and that is just not possible if you vend.

The smart people vend from their cars or rooms, but then only a few people can get away with that trick.

As a vendor (Horror In Clay) as well as a showrunner (Inuhele; Atlanta's Tiki Weekend) I can tell you we work really hard to make our event fun and profitable for vendors. (We modeled our Trading Post on Tiki Kon, which was one of the most fun times I've had vending and attending a show).

Here are the rubrics we're using this year.

Hours:

Fri Mar. 6. Morning load in starting at 8am

Fri Mar. 6. Open 2-7:00 pm

Sat Mar. 7. Open 10-4 pm

Sun Mar. 8th Open 10-noon for last minute purchases (optional)

The room opens at 2pm Friday.

The room will be locked overnight.

The room will be open to the public on Saturday.

The room will be open to the public on Sunday.

We will have "booth-sitters" on hand to provide brief breaks for vendors/artists.

There will be a cash bar in the vendors area

There will be low thematic music in the vendors area

(The room is sold out for 2020 with 23 vendors)

(Details on vendors at event at http://www.atlantatikitour.com)

Unpopular opinion. I am already sick of the Baby Yoda cocktails