Would you prefer Tiki as 'mainstream' or 'underground'?

You always like to think your personal interests or taste is a little more special than the mainstream. This was especially true for me in music (heck I saw the Goo Goo Dolls in 1990, in a place that had about 10 people total which included the roadies). But if something does become popular or mainstream, you either choose to stop, or roll with it. I don't think I could ever give up the Tiki scence, but I did stop listenening to the Goo Goo Dolls.

Well said skip!

I went to Trader Vic's LA (Live) on Friday night and while there were a respectable amount of people there, barely, next door the yardhouse had a waiting list for tables 4 pages long! If I were the investor, I would be very disappointed that at least one page of those waiting didnot come over.

It may be that Tiki has a much more limiting appeal, even if mainstream, so the phrase "mainstream" must include such limitation.

I want to see tiki spanked.

There is often a waiting line at Hala Kahiki (bar) in Chicago.

But in general, considering the northern IL/southern WI area has 11 million people, one might say Tiki is far, far, far from mainstram on the central coast (Great Lakes). Personally, 'would like to see much more of it.

BTW, Tong's Tiki Hut restaurant in Villa Park (metro western burbs Chicago) is positively Tiki-gorgeous, all in all.

Some of you are in a time-warp or just confused.

Cocktails came back with the retro lounge movement in the mid 90's.

Venues in L.A. & S.F. like The Derby, Hi Ball Lounge, The Lava Lounge, Bimbo's 365 Club,& even the LA Encounter were the places to hang. Tiki was just a side thing, kind of the nerd cousin of Lounge.

Combustible Edison, Big Bad Voo Doo Daddy, Royal Crown Revue, Lavay Smith & Friends of Dean Martin all were part of the music scene.

Don't confuse Tiki with Lounge. Two different things. Tiki is fat middle age guys in Hawaiian shirts, Loungers wouldn't be caught dead in that scene.

Lounge did encompass Swing, Space Age Pop, Jazz, Surf, Standards, Exotica, and some Surf. It also was about googie, big fin cars, post modern art, & a bit of rockabilly.

Some Lounge people collected tikis casually, not the kind of mall middle class obsessive compulsive behavior here. This is more like high school with hard
liquor. Many of you travel in packs, busting out the camera phone everywhere, buying into the culture. It's all good, but don't confuse the Lounge/Swing/Space Age pop movement of the 90's with your tiki tours.

Tiki vs. Lounge

Arguments for Tiki

1. Tiki is more iconic. (What's more iconic than a Tiki?)
2. You can be really fat but still look good in an Aloha shirt.
3. Tiki has a spiritual homeland (Polynesia/Hawaii is like Israel).
4. Tiki has a bible.
5. Tiki has a more active web site.
6. Tiki can be franchised.

Arguments for Lounge

1. Loungers get laid more.
2. Loungers dress better.
3. Loungers are better dancers.
4. Loungers live in more stylish pads.
5. Gin is better than rum (IMHO).
6. Frank Sinatra vs. Don Ho ?? ( No contest. And sorry, Denny Martin didn't sing).

That's all I can think of right now.

My next comparison will be Tiki vs. Punk Rock.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2009-07-21 22:28 ]

There used to be a piece on cities, people, & things that were lounge or not lounge.

For instance:

Lounge Not Lounge

Phoenix St Louis
Tom Snyder Oprah
Blue Cheese veggie burgers
Simpsons Family Guy

Perhaps we need Tiki or Not Tiki?

Well I guess this thread is kind of a moot point now that we have seen Snoop using Tiki and Mugs as advertising for his upcoming tour.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=33041&forum=1&7

As dad used to say "you can want in in hand and ....."

I can't take offence to,
"Don't confuse Tiki with Lounge. Two different things. Tiki is fat middle age guys in Hawaiian shirts, Loungers wouldn't be caught dead in that scene."
Seeing as I am a "fat middle age guy" at least I knew/listened to the Rat Pack and the like long before all the posers/wannabe's saw that "Swingers" movie.

Mainstream or Underground, soul surfers will tell you that you sold out when you made your first buck doing something you love!!!!

Actually as a sub-culture, Lounge (Cocktail Nation ??) has come and gone. Most of the L.A. places that Frankie Gillette mentioned are dust. Tiki-Ti, on the other hand, is still rocking like it's 1961. One cool thing about Tiki is that people really are much more friendly. I've never failed to strike up cool conversations with perfect strangers at Tiki-Ti, Bahooka, Forbidden Island, and Frankie's. Maybe rum (vs. gin or whiskey) makes people nicer. :)

On 2009-07-26 22:18, Beach Bum Scott wrote:
Well I guess this thread is kind of a moot point now that we have seen Snoop using Tiki and Mugs as advertising for his upcoming tour.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=33041&forum=1&7

As dad used to say "you can want in in hand and ....."

I can't take offence to,
"Don't confuse Tiki with Lounge. Two different things. Tiki is fat middle age guys in Hawaiian shirts, Loungers wouldn't be caught dead in that scene."
Seeing as I am a "fat middle age guy" at least I knew/listened to the Rat Pack and the like long before all the posers/wannabe's saw that "Swingers" movie.

Haha, it's good to see that there are still some hardcore loungers around. I still see punks on Hollywood Boulevard too.
Like I said:
I think Snoop barely even knows what a Tiki mug is. When you see Tiki popping up in unusual places, it is most often the graphic designer who snuck it in there. The artists are the people who brought Tiki "back into the mainstream", because they were inspired by it creatively -and that's a good thing.
And Lounge AND Tiki are both a form of ancestor worship: Realizing that our parents'/grandparents' scene wasn't so uncool after all. And our folks came in all sizes, in both scenes.

On 2009-07-26 22:36, bigbrotiki wrote:

On 2009-07-26 22:18, Beach Bum Scott wrote:
Well I guess this thread is kind of a moot point now that we have seen Snoop using Tiki and Mugs as advertising for his upcoming tour.
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=33041&forum=1&7

As dad used to say "you can want in in hand and ....."

I can't take offence to,
"Don't confuse Tiki with Lounge. Two different things. Tiki is fat middle age guys in Hawaiian shirts, Loungers wouldn't be caught dead in that scene."
Seeing as I am a "fat middle age guy" at least I knew/listened to the Rat Pack and the like long before all the posers/wannabe's saw that "Swingers" movie.

Haha, it's good to see that there are still some hardcore loungers around. I still see punks on Hollywood Boulevard too.
Like I said:
I think Snoop barely even knows what a Tiki mug is. When you see Tiki popping up in unusual places, it is most often the graphic designer who snuck it in there. The artists are the people who brought Tiki "back into the mainstream", because they were inspired by it creatively -and that's a good thing.
And Lounge AND Tiki are both a form of ancestor worship: Realizing that our parents'/grandparents' scene wasn't so uncool after all. And our folks came in all sizes, in both scenes.

Just to kind of clear it up. Snoop was on tour with a group called Slightly Stoopid who performs reggae surf influenced music (Actually they were discovered by Bradley from Sublime)and they are from San Diego so im pretty sure that the poster was aimed more at the Slightly Stoopid demographic. They have an album called The Longest Barrel Ride, so surfing is part of their lifestyle, which would lead me to think the tiki is their influence. But it would be cool to see Snoop come out on stage with a Squid tiki mug instead of his blinged out pimp juice goblet.

On 2009-07-26 22:34, JOHN-O wrote:
Actually as a sub-culture, Lounge (Cocktail Nation ??) has come and gone. Most of the L.A. places that Frankie Gillette mentioned are dust. Tiki-Ti, on the other hand, is still rocking like it's 1961. One cool thing about Tiki is that people really are much more friendly. I've never failed to strike up cool conversations with perfect strangers at Tiki-Ti, Bahooka, Forbidden Island, and Frankie's. Maybe rum (vs. gin or whiskey) makes people nicer. :)

True those places are gone, but Lounge has had a huge influence in pop culture, making everything from the Rat Pack hip again to introducing Louie Prima, Martin Denny, Arthur Lyman, Esquivel to another generation among other things. As far as movies like "Swingers", nobody in the scene talked like that. That's called creative license. I laugh at how serious some of you take this stuff. Enjoy it while it lasts.

On 2009-07-29 19:12, FrankieGillette wrote:

I laugh at how serious some of you take this stuff. Enjoy it while it lasts.

While it lasts? I didn't join a movement, the interest in thinks tiki were predetermined by so many things and events in my life, but this stuff never found me nor did I find it. It was a convergence and shoiuld this "stuff" fade away, my interest in tiki will endure with me just as it was with me before I moved to California. Personally, I am thrilled to find a forum where I can share my own personal interest with like minded individuals.

Enjoy it while it lasts. Hmmmm

On 2009-07-29 19:12, FrankieGillette wrote:

On 2009-07-26 22:34, JOHN-O wrote:
Actually as a sub-culture, Lounge (Cocktail Nation ??) has come and gone. Most of the L.A. places that Frankie Gillette mentioned are dust. Tiki-Ti, on the other hand, is still rocking like it's 1961. One cool thing about Tiki is that people really are much more friendly. I've never failed to strike up cool conversations with perfect strangers at Tiki-Ti, Bahooka, Forbidden Island, and Frankie's. Maybe rum (vs. gin or whiskey) makes people nicer. :)

True those places are gone, but Lounge has had a huge influence in pop culture, making everything from the Rat Pack hip again to introducing Louie Prima, Martin Denny, Arthur Lyman, Esquivel to another generation among other things. As far as movies like "Swingers", nobody in the scene talked like that. That's called creative license. I laugh at how serious some of you take this stuff. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Dude! The lounge scene never really died. We just ditched you, that's all. :lol:

Serious? :wink:

I didn't know there was a Loung Scene until 'Swingers' came out. I was listening to Louis Prima in 1987. Damn it!!

And wearing bowling shirts.....

[ Edited by: dewey-surf 2009-07-29 21:50 ]

On 2009-07-29 20:28, Hakalugi wrote:

On 2009-07-29 19:12, FrankieGillette wrote:

On 2009-07-26 22:34, JOHN-O wrote:
Actually as a sub-culture, Lounge (Cocktail Nation ??) has come and gone. Most of the L.A. places that Frankie Gillette mentioned are dust. Tiki-Ti, on the other hand, is still rocking like it's 1961. One cool thing about Tiki is that people really are much more friendly. I've never failed to strike up cool conversations with perfect strangers at Tiki-Ti, Bahooka, Forbidden Island, and Frankie's. Maybe rum (vs. gin or whiskey) makes people nicer. :)

If you're in the club pal, I don't want to join. Waddle on in your dockers & Hawaiian shirts until all the tiki joints until you squeeze the last bit of
hipness from that scene. Yes, enjoy it while it lasts, the clock is ticking.

True those places are gone, but Lounge has had a huge influence in pop culture, making everything from the Rat Pack hip again to introducing Louie Prima, Martin Denny, Arthur Lyman, Esquivel to another generation among other things. As far as movies like "Swingers", nobody in the scene talked like that. That's called creative license. I laugh at how serious some of you take this stuff. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Dude! The lounge scene never really died. We just ditched you, that's all. :lol:

Serious? :wink:

Let me try this reply again

If you're in the club pal, I don't want to join. Waddle on in your dockers & Hawaiian shirts until all the tiki joints until you squeeze the last bit of
hipness from that scene. Yes, enjoy it while it lasts.

By the way since I posted my take on the scene, I've been flooded with personal messages expressing agreement with my takes. Keep following the author though, you need a leader. Ha ha.

GROG think that if Tikis were underground, then nobody would get to see them and they would rot, unless they were made out of stone like the Moais. Now if they were mainstream, they would probably wash down the river and get caught on the bank somewhere. And, all that water definitely can't be good for them. Now if they were big stone Moais in the main stream, that would look pretty neat with them standing there sticking up out of the water and the water rushing along around them. However the water would erode them, and they would eventually topple. But, they are pretty thick, so it would take a really long time for the water to erode the stone.

Some people are into it for the "scene", or the "style". In Tiki, it is the art and the creativity that matters, and unique art will survive any "scene", and so-called "hipness".

On 2009-08-01 12:01, GROG wrote:
GROG think that if Tikis were underground, then nobody would get to see them and they would rot, unless they were made out of stone like the Moais. Now if they were mainstream, they would probably wash down the river and get caught on the bank somewhere. And, all that water definitely can't be good for them. Now if they were big stone Moais in the main stream, that would look pretty neat with them standing there sticking up out of the water and the water rushing along around them. However the water would erode them, and they would eventually topple. But, they are pretty thick, so it would take a really long time for the water to erode the stone.

Jungle like Grog brain.

I agree with Captain Morgan. I would love to walk into any neighborhood bar and be able to get a real Tiki cocktail--not premade slop, or have the bartender looking at me with deer in the headlight eyes when I ask for a Mai Tai. I would love to have more Mai Kai-like establishments so that more people can experience how mind blowing a true polynesian palace is. I think that true tikiphiles are the best promoters--we talk tiki mugs, listen to exotica at work, wear tiki jewelry every day and surround ourselves with things Tiki at home and at work--that people who come in contact with us get excited about Tiki too. I think it's great. It may inspire new artists to create mugs, wall art and great carvings.
Mahalo and long live Tiki!!

On 2009-08-01 16:00, VeroTiki wrote:
I agree with Captain Morgan. I would love to walk into any neighborhood bar and be able to get a real Tiki cocktail--not premade slop, or have the bartender looking at me with deer in the headlight eyes when I ask for a Mai Tai.

VeroTiki, I'll take this a step farther. I'd like to go to a neighborhood bar and get a "decently" made cocktail. It doesn't have to be tiki by chance. What about a Manhattan or an Old Fashioned made using orange bitters? What about a whiskey sour using real lemons?

Yes, there are some great bartenders in America but try finding them. The thing about a great tiki palace is that the drinks are made correctly. The happen to be tiki, but the point remains, a sense of craftsmenship embues.

Poorly made drinks are the rot of America.

As for FrankieGillettes line, "If you're in the club pal, I don't want to join. Waddle on in your dockers & Hawaiian shirts until all the tiki joints until you squeeze the last bit of
hipness from that scene. Yes, enjoy it while it lasts "

This line only works when you quote Will Rogers. It's "I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member."

Try humility.

[ Edited by: telescopes 2009-08-01 20:01 ]

On 2009-08-01 19:57, telescopes wrote:

On 2009-08-01 16:00, VeroTiki wrote:
I agree with Captain Morgan. I would love to walk into any neighborhood bar and be able to get a real Tiki cocktail--not premade slop, or have the bartender looking at me with deer in the headlight eyes when I ask for a Mai Tai.

VeroTiki, I'll take this a step farther. I'd like to go to a neighborhood bar and get a "decently" made cocktail. It doesn't have to be tiki by chance. What about a Manhattan or an Old Fashioned made using orange bitters? What about a whiskey sour using real lemons?

Yes, there are some great bartenders in America but try finding them. The thing about a great tiki palace is that the drinks are made correctly. The happen to be tiki, but the point remains, a sense of craftsmenship embues.

Poorly made drinks are the rot of America.

As for FrankieGillettes line, "If you're in the club pal, I don't want to join. Waddle on in your dockers & Hawaiian shirts until all the tiki joints until you squeeze the last bit of
hipness from that scene. Yes, enjoy it while it lasts "

This line only works when you quote Will Rogers. It's "I wouldn't belong to any club that would have me as a member."

Try humility.

[ Edited by: telescopes 2009-08-01 20:01 ]

Actually that was Groucho Marx that said that.

[ Edited by: dewey-surf 2009-08-01 20:23 ]

I stand corrected.

And Grog say, "I have a mind to join a club and beat you over the head with it?"

Also, the whole point of Tiki is escapism--have fun!! Don't mind our Hawaiian shirts, flowers in the hair or "strange, exotic" music. We're having a blast, drinking complex, fresh cocktails and being with people of like mind. Some people cannot wrap their minds around this. Oh well, I'm going to make another Lei Lani Volcano, Aloha.

i think the the way society recognizes tikis is fine the way it is. however, im gettin sick of people looking confused when i tell them i carve tikis. "well, what the hell is a tiki?" i carve faces into wood.

Sorry to bump such a touchy topic, but today I discovered the infamous Target Tiki mugs at the Goodwill in Point Loma. They were marked $3.99 for the set of 4, but they were scattered throughout the store! I had to go on a Tiki hunt to find the whole collection. I think they were happy to be reunited and taken to a good home.

Hewey - I'd like to see Tiki go mainstream, but not as vinyl table cloths and plastic mugs at a party supply place like it keeps trying to go. More like more bars, restaurants, bowling alleys and other Googieish establishments. I know this is a simplistic statement, but it is a dream so many of us have.

Will we ever see that kind of thing again? Is it happening anywhere?

I think its hard for us who are hardcore into tiki too see it go mainstream. its like that band we discovered and no one else knew about it or what you were talking about. Then all of the sudden their into it when moments before they had no clue. But thats just the way it is. HumuHumu and Swanky on the first page of this thread put it well. Their are those who are really going to be into it and know the history etc, and those who just like it and dont know much about it. I for one think that its cool to see tiki get out, but seeing it become too popular in its way destroys it for me. Its like the band thing I mentioned above. Im pretty sure most of you understand what im talking about. Im starting too see tiki everywhere now and im like "damn it" :wink:. But its all good. Its just then way it is. Tiki is escapisim and people enjoy that.

I think tiki has remained underground since the resurgence in the 90's..... Sure, we have seen bits and pieces go mainstream here and there with passing trends, but think about it.... we, who are immersed in it see tiki everywhere because that's what we are interested in and what we look out for....I am constantly amazed at how many people i encounter that to this day have no idea or only a vague idea of what tiki is..... to those of us that have been into tiki it seems like it is mainstream but i don't think it is. It's like any other sub cultural thing.... once you are in it you see it everywhere. but the reality is, it's not everywhere. When I got into punk rock, it was like we were the only ones in our school that were into it.... then we started seeing it everywhere the more we immersed ourselves in it and met more folks who were into it, the more widespread it seemed..... as with tiki, many aspects of the punk sub culture have found their way into mainstream then disappeared until the gatekeepers of culture decided there was money to be made, hence places like hot topic and such that sell all manner of commercial punk gear have appeared but where is the mainstream punk culture?? it's not there- because it was always a subculture, just like tiki is..... these subcultures appeal to a small minority. most folks drift in and out of them as an individual choice for whatever reasons...but a the small minority of tikiphiles are here and have always been here. tiki is not mainstream. no subculture can truly be mainstream. it's very nature of what it is denies it that option even though parts of it can be co-opted by commercial interests, the heart and soul of it continues on. I think that if you are someone who truly appreciates any subculture and live a certain lifestyle, you are going to do so no matter what and questions about whether or not it is mainstream would not even cross your mind.

Good point Tipsy Mcstagger. I understand what you say. :)

[ Edited by: forgotten tikiman 2012-05-19 17:21 ]

On 2009-09-22 18:17, JC DiStefano wrote:
Sorry to bump such a touchy topic, but today I discovered the infamous Target Tiki mugs at the Goodwill in Point Loma. They were marked $3.99 for the set of 4, but they were scattered throughout the store! I had to go on a Tiki hunt to find the whole collection. I think they were happy to be reunited and taken to a good home.

That is why I do not mind Tiki going mainstream, even if it devolves in the process.
Besides, better to indoctrinate the masses, some of whom, hopefully, will graduate to hanging at Trader Vic's, or even this Board.

And then there is "Florida tiki" which sadly undercuts what many of us hold near and dear to our hearts... So here in Florida, in many places, "tiki" means an ordinary bar with a thatched roof. But that can happen with anything that's appropriated solely for the $$$ and without regard to the true culture and history which lies underneath.

I think a certain amount of "mainstreaming" of tiki is unavoidable. "Luau parties" have been, and will continue, to be popular party decor and theming by the masses. But once in a while someone discovers "real" tiki through these shallow manifestations in today's world. So it's a mixed blessing.

But fortunately there are just enough tiki events around to develop a life-long interest for many of us. I think I will always enjoy "real" tiki, the music, and the cocktails and friends that go with it. I think that once you discover the real stuff you'll always have that eye for it.

On 2012-05-19 11:02, Tipsy McStagger wrote:

When I got into punk rock, it was like we were the only ones in our school that were into it.... then we started seeing it everywhere the more we immersed ourselves in it and met more folks who were into it, the more widespread it seemed..... as with tiki, many aspects of the punk sub culture have found their way into mainstream then disappeared until the gatekeepers of culture decided there was money to be made, hence places like hot topic and such that sell all manner of commercial punk gear have appeared but where is the mainstream punk culture?? it's not there- because it was always a subculture, just like tiki is.....

an apt analogy perhaps if you were getting into punk rock for the first time in 2025.

and, if punk had originally been created to be consumed by the masses, as a faux melange of movements designed to capture the bucks of the bourgeoise...

On 2012-05-20 21:10, thePorpoise wrote:

On 2012-05-19 11:02, Tipsy McStagger wrote:

When I got into punk rock, it was like we were the only ones in our school that were into it.... then we started seeing it everywhere the more we immersed ourselves in it and met more folks who were into it, the more widespread it seemed..... as with tiki, many aspects of the punk sub culture have found their way into mainstream then disappeared until the gatekeepers of culture decided there was money to be made, hence places like hot topic and such that sell all manner of commercial punk gear have appeared but where is the mainstream punk culture?? it's not there- because it was always a subculture, just like tiki is.....

an apt analogy perhaps if you were getting into punk rock for the first time in 2025.

and, if punk had originally been created to be consumed by the masses, as a faux melange of movements designed to capture the bucks of the bourgeoise...

Merely my 2 cents on the subject.... you clearly missed the point that others seemed to have gotten. Perhaps you would like to offer up your own, more precise theory or add something more to the discussion rather than criticism of others responses.

no worries, and sorry for seeming strident. just wanted to bow up for punk rock!

"I think tiki has remained underground since the resurgence in the 90's...I am constantly amazed at how many people i encounter that to this day have no idea or only a vague idea of what tiki is..." -Tipsy McStagger-

Yep. This thread is over 7 years and despite all our wailing and gnashing of teeth Tiki is still something I have to explain to people on a regular basis. In fact I've never had a stranger exclaim "Oh, yes, Tiki!" when the subject is mentioned.

If Tiki were anywhere near as mainstream as some think it has/had become (an opinion which seems to be largely based in the occasional mass produced Tiki items showing up at chain stores) we wouldn't see the articles popping up in magazines and newspapers from time to time that, after an opening line in which they almost always use the word "tacky" when describing a supposed general opinion of Tiki, suggest readers do something different and have a Tiki party.

The one place I'd say Tiki has become the most mainstream is in contemporary country music where the Florida version AceExplorer cited is a common theme in songs, music videos, and summer tours. This of course isn't our version of Tiki***** but it's definitely a mainstream version.

*****If your Kenny Chesney loving neighbors invite you to their annual summer "Tiki" party expect to see a lot of crappy straw western hats and strings of flamingo lights and Corona pennants and plan to hear Chesney, Buffett, some Alan Jackson and maybe a little Marley. Immediately drinking several shots of tequila upon arrival will immensely help your enjoyment of the party.

Another great point woofmutt. I need to hear stuff like this to keep my tiki moral up :). I have just been worried about the commercialization of tiki. But its like Tipsy McStagger pointed out, some will just be in it to make money and thats all. Im still soaking up knowledge of true mid-century tiki and earlier.

"I have just been worried about the commercialization of tiki. But its like Tipsy McStagger pointed out, some will just be in it to make money and thats all."

The roots of Tiki were definitely fertilized with money. If there had been no commercial viability in a Tiki themed joint or product very few of them would have ever been created.

The watering down of the midcentury ideal of Tiki in order to sell something to the mass market happens with any genre or art form.***** It'll keep happening with Tiki for as long as people still like to fantasize about tropical paradises. But among the core aficionados the ideal is kept alive.

*****I like western stuff but a solid 90% of western styled whatever is just as bad as Party City Tiki crap.

On 2012-05-21 15:22, woofmutt wrote:
"I have just been worried about the commercialization of tiki. But its like Tipsy McStagger pointed out, some will just be in it to make money and thats all."

The roots of Tiki were definitely fertilized with money. If there had been no commercial viability in a Tiki themed joint or product very few of them would have ever been created.

The watering down of the midcentury ideal of Tiki in order to sell something to the mass market happens with any genre or art form.***** It'll keep happening with Tiki for as long as people still like to fantasize about tropical paradises. But among the core aficionados the ideal is kept alive.

*****I like western stuff but a solid 90% of western styled whatever is just as bad as Party City Tiki crap.

"The roots of Tiki were definitely fertilized with money. If there had been no commercial viability in a Tiki themed joint or product very few of them would have ever been created. "

• good point.

"The watering down of the midcentury ideal of Tiki in order to sell something to the mass market happens with any genre or art form.***** It'll keep happening with Tiki for as long as people still like to fantasize about tropical paradises. But among the core aficionados the ideal is kept alive. "

• true as it happens with all genres and sub cultural trends. Fortunately, there have always been great artists, craftsman and other innovators that have produced well made items that reflect the true spirit of keeping it alive alongside those that wish to co-opt and simplify it for the sake of mass consumption and making a quick buck.

It's the difference (to use your western analogy) between a piece of navajo jewelry bought out west directly from the guy that made it by hand on the reservation and buying a similiar piece that was made in china. Both options exist side by side and are available to anyone but the real craftmanship and spirit of the handmade piece will always shine through, much the same way that the spirit of tiki continues on through artists and folks like ourselves that appreciate it's value and sigmifigance.

I still don't think it has gotten near a "crest" yet, commercially or in popularity.
For me, it has always started and ended with Hawaiiana, but commercially - it's always been about the drinks.

Now that places like Smuggler's Cove, Forbidden Island, Lani Kai, Painkiller and others are becoming the "go to" places for cocktail connoisseurs, that's leading a whole new generation into the amber lights, the statues and general vibe.

For instance, my daughter is 27. She's a professional-athlete-dating-fashion-industry-executive-on-the-way-up.
She always mocked me and my luaus with playfully mild disdain. Then about 4 years ago, she started trying more sophisticated drinks rather than DUH-VOKAREBULL-DUH and such swill. I remember her talking about how great this bar was that took 15 minutes to make your drink with fresh ingredients and things like absinthe, etc.

Then she went to the Mai Kai during this past Hukilau. Now, she wants to tell all her sophisticate pals in Miami about this "great old place" in Ft. Lauderdale with the most awesome cocktails.

Also, the bartender's guilds and cocktail clubs are really drawn to rum as a great vehicle that has more history than craft made gins served in goat hooves or vodka made from glaciers and served in a glass skull.

Once that door opens to the cocktails - the rest catches their eye and then we'll see who shakes out and who sticks around.
It's only beginning, in my opinion. The SpongeBob generation is now coming of age and they're thirsty, they like tapa, tikis, uke and goofiness and don't mind a little sunshine cast into their lives as opposed to the mostly dark and somber thoughts of the kids of the 90s.

As long as there's a place for me at the bar, I'm fine with that.

" Why the heck do I want to go in there"
This is how most of my Friends respond
when I ask them to join me for a drink at a Tiki Bar.
Which is fine by me, They just do not get the Idea of why I love going into a good Tiki Bar.
And I cannot even begin to explain to them why I like Tiki Stuff so much!
I think that most of us fear that our local tiki bars will be filled with a bunch of young. "Pabst blue ribbon swilling, skinny jeans wearing,funny facial hair and sock headed stylings".
Of dare I say it "Hipsters"!
If our beloved tiki bars become main stream popular?!

http://www.pumpispumping.com/2009/08/look-at-this-fucking-hipster/

On 2012-05-25 06:37, pbmonkey98902 wrote:
I think that most of us fear that our local tiki bars will be filled with a bunch of young. "Pabst blue ribbon swilling, skinny jeans wearing,funny facial hair and sock headed stylings".
Of dare I say it "Hipsters"!
If our beloved tiki bars become main stream popular?!

"Hipsters" loathe the mainstream as much as your average Tikiphile. They embrace Tiki for its ironic kitschy coolness which hopefully isn't just flavor of the month for them. MONEY is the oxygen which allows Tiki bars to survive and most hipsters have that disposable bar income. As stated many times here, if only Tikiphiles drank in Tiki bars, there would be no Tiki bars.

A place like the Tiki-Ti has it down pat, where it draws in a great diversity of drinkers. I remember a few years ago, I was sitting at the bar beside one older gentleman who had been drinking at the Ti for decades with his granddaughter who had just turned 21, another couple dressed like they were on their way to the opera or some black tie affair, the locals who drink there every day it's open, and yes given the neighborhood demographic... HIPSTERS !! Everyone was happily co-existing in a rum-fueled bliss. :)

Same goes for the Tonga Hut on a given night. Yes lots of PBR kids hanging out there but I also see a lot of these youngsters sucking down the Scorpion bowls.

And don't be so quick to pass judgment on some of the kids in the above pictures (although I do agree that one person in the link is a little out there). Honestly they look like younger versions of people in this middle-aged Tiki community. That curlycue mustache and those black horn-rimmed glasses have crossed generations.

Hipsters in the Tiki bar are a good thing. (But what I don't like are the young douchebags who tend to be stupid or arrogant drunks.)

"Don't be so quick to pass judgment..."

This is Tiki Central. Being quick to pass judgment is one of our things.

"Honestly (the "hipsters" in the pictures) look like younger versions of people in this middle-aged Tiki community."

That was my thought exactly. Except that Tiki People are usually better dressed.

"What I don't like are the young douchebags who tend to be stupid or arrogant drunks."

I find that highly annoying as well. The young need to earn their place at the bar the same way all of us middle-aged stupid arrogant drunks did.

"Hipsters" is exactly what modern tiki afficionados are.

If you were to take some tiki people from the 50's and 60's, and transplant them to our scene here in the present, they would probably not like it. Except for a few bands, the music would be completely different, as would the style of dress and even attitude. The original tiki crowd back in the day were not tattooed ex-punkers. Nothing wrong with that, of course....but just sayin'.......