I think That discussion needs a new soapbox to say Good words.

Therre have been probably less traditional pieces done around here rather than the "is it tiki?" pieces. This thread is for the art lovers and artists who were embarrassed and discouraged by the "Other"thread, even though
it has been edited with the more caustic venom
removed(gone forever but in those first readers
minds) and made more easily digested. Like I said,
"The seed has been planted."
Someone wanted to know why I was so upset,
after all there was no harm meant so everything is
OK, Right? If you have to ask then you don't know.
What miffed me was seeing and hearing the
reactions of some of my dear friends, mostly
carvers and artists, who were ready to quit
TC and maybe quit carving all together. I think
Dave counted them at 3, whilst his 46(?)were
behind him in full agreement so what is the
problem? There is no problem? Cool.
I spend a fair amount of time on TC deep in
the Creatingwalls. I don't consider myself a
tikiphile in the strict sence of the word.
I love tiki--Carvings. I love many things tiki
but I'm not a tikiphile. I Carve tikis. I also
carve birds, dolphins, indians, big cats,
Totem Poles Shrunken heads and Many other
items that can be made of wood. I came here
and fell in love and have forsaken All my other
carving interests for tiki.
I haven't been here too long, almost 2 years
and Almost ALL the art created here is Non
traditional and no one has outlawed it. Sure
we could all go out and buy expensive books
and scan and print out plans to copy the
originals and traditionals and copy that to
a log and have a whole bunch of good old
carvings of traditional tiki but no one has
the time to do that all the time and wiuld
rather create their own rendition of that
original and still call it tiki and sell
it as such.
We carve traditional stuff now and then but
it is not the majority of the carvings. It
is all ART. We all love art and if we have
young carvers ,who may someday turn into
the greatest tiki artist around,learning
their skills on our forum at least we can
encourage them amd show them positive
things in their attempts. These things have
all been accepted for as long as I have
been here and I hope they will Always be
acepted.
I am NOT afraid that tiki will be lost to
"Non tiki crap"I am NOT Uninted and inspired
by that other post. I was appalled and
saddened at the same time
I think we will see the other side of the
coin soon.
Thanks for letting me ramble

[ Edited by: Benzart 2005-11-15 21:24 ]

Ben,

I'm with you; onward and upward!!!

-Gman

My first post and probably many of yours too was responded too by Ben. Ben has sent me techniques, pictures and critiques of my carvings not just thru post here but through emails and pm's. The type of honest good willed gestures he puts forth are the type of thing that we all need to do more of.

Mahalo to Ben and the other artist of tikicentral that inspire others and not put themselves on a pedistal.

Mahalo Ben!!! At least I can respond to your thread!! I told myself that I wouldn't get sucked in to that other thread - I just don't have time to get all riled up over nothing nor do I want to fight fire with fire. Although I had all kinds of thoughts stirring up in my mind. Thank you and all of the other artists for playing a positive role and being an inspiration to us all!!!
Later,
Spermy

[ Edited by: The Sperm Whale 2005-11-15 22:15 ]

Ben,
I am happy to here your take on all this. When I first read the other thread yesterday I didn't know how to react. Then I read GMAN's posting and his disappointment and how he was discouraged. I felt as if I needed to defend him and his fine work and I do own two of his Tiki's. I allowed my anger to come to the surface with my remarks. Then I sat here and thought about the few carvings I did and if they were really worth all of the effort I have given them. I have worked in different mediums before and have produced works that have sold. One of my first concerns as I started carving was not to copy anyones style and develop my own. I am new to carving here and I was thinking maybe the artist here that I respect and admire are just being polite and telling me what I want to hear. I have just recovered from a little self carving accident and I was ready to get back to my new found hobby. I know I need to thicken my skin as to criticism. In fact I am my worst critic to anything I make. I do as much research as I can online and here on TC. But there are many tools I need to buy yet to advance my new found hobby. As to buying all the books I need to study tiki and it's origins. Well do I buy a book for $75 or more tools? I'm going for the tools first.
Ben you have given me tremendous encouragement since I first posted my carvings. I've thanked you on threads and on PM's and I am grateful for your help and encouragement. I also want to thank Gman, Capo, Palama, AA, McTiki, Kirby, Hewey, Palm Harbor, Rodeo, SurfinTiki, Conga, Sam, Finkdaddy, Chongaolio and Raffertiki and many more. All of these carvers I respect and hope I will become the artists that they are.
I hope I able to express my feelings at this late hour and I need to sign off and sleep.
Good night all
Wes

Well, I don't know what inspired me to reply to the other post other than when I first read the unedited version it hit me somewhere deep in the gut. And if inspiring debate was the goal, then that goal was surely met.

Usually when something like that pops off the screen I like to sit back and watch the fireworks. Heck, I've never even carved a tiki yet, so why should I even get in the middle of that?

I've never met any of you yet, I just felt bad for a lot of carvers here and just felt I needed to say something. I know I probably haven't paid my "time-on-this-board" dues yet but what the heck.

I think its so cool that people from all over the world can gather here and share art, stories, and ideas. And whenever you have such a diverse gathering, you are going to have differences. I've seen it on other boards, I'm sure its happened here long before I found this place. Actually the sharp wit and dry humor read here cracked me up from the beginning and was part of the attraction.

The positive vibe is very strong here and that will never change, and I'll welcome others views from now on that challenge my perception of what I'm reading and learning
about here.

Later
Jim

Wes, we all dig your carvings. Someone mentioned sugar coating and I think that's BS. Nothing inspires me more than to see new carvers like yourself obviously trying so hard to produce art that stands up to their own high standards. That never changes as long you are creating, and most of us have not been doing this all that long either. I always like to support the new guys as well as the old hands and thrill to see every new piece and the progression that ensues. We all start somewhere and the support that I received here was invaluable, especially when I first got going. It made the difference between a short diversion and a real commitment to producing art. So when we urge on a new artist, it is not just lip service. Do me a favor and don't look at your pieces any differently now. Your work is really outstanding and you've got HUGE potential as the rest of us like to think that we do too.

Ben, thanks for starting this new post. I don't think BK meant to discourage people, and I do not think any the less of him now to be quite honest. I'm not all that polarized by his post. I think the damage caused was not intentional. My ideas on carving and what I like to carve have not changed (Has anyone's, really?). Tiki is and always has been a mixed bag for me. I want to bone up on the traditional stuff because it intrigues me. But I also want to do some more original non-traditional stuff in the future.

But I do think quite a few did get discouraged by the BK's post (whether they chimed in or not), and this post is a good idea. I would hate to see TC change and people drop off. TC was a bitchin' place 2 days ago. Let's keep it that way and let all of our art speak for us, showing what we are specifically interested in producing as the unique and individual artists that we are. Traditional, non-traditional, whatever. It's all pretty fascinating in my opinion.

Aaron

Interesting post ben. Yeh, I also got more annoyed at some of my mates getting discouraged, than by what many were suggesting with pushing the traditional thing.

I reckon we go for supporting artists as much as possible. Yes, this can include criticism. BUT, this should be constructive, and support the artist to move onto bigger and better things. My favourite example is Finkdaddy. Yes, his first pieces were kinda basic, but they were done with a damn box cutter! He got positive and encouraging feedback, and now look at the stuff he produces - its awesome. I dont think there is that much "candy coating" here, but I agree it isnt always helpful. As I said, make it positive and constructive, and foster the tiki spirit in the ohana.

If this can double as a set the record straight topic, then here it is, because it seems that no matter how much that is attempted "over there", much like an old Fender Twin Guitar amp with a 6L6 about to burn out, the distortion just sounds worse and worse: I didn't start that post to discourage anyone. And I realize in hindsight that I could have worded my post to suit that end a bit better the first time around. But I have always had a way with words, all my life. Often best demonstrated by my uncanny ability to get women angry at me. I also didn't start that thread as any sort of critique on other people's art. That had zero to do with my aim (but, there again, I have a way with words, and an occasional bout of FIM's disease). I merely put it there it as an attempt to get people to dig deeper, and know and see how rich a history this genre has and where it came from, and therefore try to preserve that very genre. James had A point about knowing what tiki once was, in the heyday in 1962, but often having a tough time seeing much definition today. More appreciation and richer understanding of our heritage(which I remain hungry for and seek out myself every day) is all I was trying to breed. How that translates to how anyone creates their tiki, I don't know, but I thought for all of us it couldn't be a bad thing to do. Many people truly are unaware of much of the history. And as for traditional/non traditional, that really had little to do with what I was alluding to (and I have done both...visible on my thread). All I was alluding to was keeping the Tiki in Tiki. I would never feel anyone was unwelcome around here if they didn't carve traditional stuff. We all have our own styles. I do accurate repros of oceanic war clubs, but that's about all I really copy verbatim. I translate tiki my own way, too. We all do. When you see my stuff you know my stuff, and that goes for everyone's style here, whether developing or advanced. The "big face on a log with big teeth" thing wasn't alluding to that, (although I have seen people bunching tree wizards, frogs, and indian heads into the tiki category on E-bay and that does really bug me). That was merely a reference to a "mold" that I think people too often trap the word "Tiki" inside of everywhere, and learning more about the wonder that is the Tiki style would help people break that mold.. The reason I edited the post was, as Ben somewhat less deftly put it, and I understand, was to purge some of what I percieved as my own Foot-In-Mouth disease (after reading it again) and try to make the true aim of the post a bit clearer. I had a cup of coffee, a few minutes, and zero malevolence or ill intention when I wrote it. I thought I was doing good, but my "way with words" screwed it up. The reason I locked the topic was simple...by that time it had 60-plus responses, pro and con, and and, as Gary and MC put it, I, too, thought it had sort of run it's course. I did wait until it had gotten a few more "con" and "pro" responses prior to doing it, because I wanted to lock it on a fair note. But I really did think that by that time we all needed to have drink together and that the intent of the post has gotten distorted way, way out there. I realize now I shouldn't have done it or I should have asked another mod to do it, but that's neither here nor there. I think my track record here on Tiki Central, through three years and 16 days and 3401 members since I joined in 2002 speaks for itself. There was a day and a time when I more often (had) the time to sit down and photograph my own techniques, offer step-by steps on this or that, and see everything that was being done on Creating. Tiki was and is among my life blood and my beating heart here on Earth. I don't have as much time anymore, because of the throes of making a living and other earthly worries, but I try to when I can. A lot of us from the original old Carving Post don't have a lot of time anymore because we're not getting any younger(sans at heart:) ) and have to make a living. (A couple even got famous...and with fame comes time restraints). But it's good that Ben has picked up the torch (After, if you will, we picked up the one he left in the 70's and 80's with his contribution to history), because Ben is the best link we have around here to our tiki past, a master of technique, and most importantly a good, benevolent, patient, and encouraging soul.

I don't think it should become a "Whose side are you on" topic, like Abortion, or Mime Torture.

It's never been possible to encapsulate "ART" by the writen word...

There is a odd but interesting book by Tony Horowitz called "Confederates in the Attic" about traveling with Civil War reinactors.

Within this gaggle there is a heirachy of who is "Hard Core" (What makes them hard-core is the ability to become emaciatedly thin, smear themselve with rancid animal fat and stand thier own smell, and own clothes from the 1860s

At the end of summer they get into thier mini-vans and go back to the suburbs, and sell insurance (or what ever)

The point is they are not really in the confederate army.

We are not in Pre-Cook Polinesia.

I do think Studying the classic pieces, and learning from them is superlative tho, however...just making sawdust is really the bond those people have with us.

I'll go home now

Here's my two cents on why I think many here got riled. It's like when a star athlete, or well-liked actor says or does something that is (or comes across as being) insensitive. It holds more sting, and is taken more personally than if a "regular" person said it. Now BK, (whether he/you realize it or not) is a celebrity on TC, for a vaiety of well-deserved reasons. Like all celebrities, there comes responsibilities whether you take them seriously or not. I get what you are saying, and would actually enjoy some more constructive criticism on my work, but please consider re-reading/editing your posts BEFORE you hit the submit button. Because like all celebrities, (whether you like it or not), when you say something that people will take negatively, the effect is multiplied, and many become disappointed and discouraged. If history is any indication, people will forget this incident and move on. Hopefully we will all learn from this, and some good will come of it.

Having said that, if anyone has constructive critisism on how I can improve my work, please post on my threads. Thank you.

Right on Ben! My sentiments exactly! And BK, I just needed to get my opinion out there. I Hope to see you all in 'Shout' soon!

THis young kid whats to say that it was Ben that saved the day. I think that the only thing that could have saved this was for you starting this new post and filling it with your Benzart ways.

With what BK has wrote above, I don't see anything wrong with those ideas.

this young gun has got some killer tiki art to do, later.

Personally I was originally upset then decided that it was really a bonfire that BK was lighting. i personally decided to remove my pics in demonstration and to maybe get those that lurk and not post much to toss in their comments. I immediately noticed that several sparked up. Since the post I have noticed that a passion has be lit and personally i hope it burns bright for a long time. I love the two diferent ways that Ben and Bk can inspire people. Personally i was already making a shift toward a more traditional look with my current carving "Silent Killer". Like I said in several posts I think this will end up being a good thing.

Carve on

Hewey, thank you so much for the kind words! Your last painting is so good, and it came at a perfect time. I always love reading your posts and seeing your art. I need more car pics!

Ben, you've always been, and always will be my favorite teacher. As soon as the kids go to bed I'm breaking out the old tools and going to work. Mahalo!

On 2005-11-16 06:54, Gigantalope wrote:
I don't think it should become a "Whose side are you on" topic, like Abortion, or Mime Torture.

For the record, I totally support mime torture.

Sometimes it takes someone yanking on your chain to make you take a long hard look at where you are going.I am probably one of the most non traditional based on the medium I use to create .In the 5 or so years I have been sculpting I never looked in any book said "I want to make one of those",to me that is not art,it is copying and that limits the most important aspect,creative thinking.There is such a great reservoir of free knowledge on TC I would not want to see that change.I get inspired by like minded artists and for the most part that is what I have found from the members here.Keep taking chances/push the envelope and great things will happen!We are part of evolution.The future is ours and based on the number of tiki huts that are popping up in So.Cal. we all have a great tiki future ahead of us!

[ Edited by: capotiki 2005-11-17 10:28 ]

Aloha to all my friends here!!!!!!!!!!
I don't have access to a computer except at work (lost alot last year from Hurricanes) so sorry if I'm a little late for the party.
I was very sorry to see many who got dissapointed and upset at the other site. DON'T DON'T DON'T stop carving or being creative in any way and most importantly supportive to everyone. Art has no boundries and no constraints and No one person knows what tiki is . Tiki is different to each of us and thats what make it all REALLY REALLY Cool.
I love to carve even being a hack, but I love to carve tikis. In the job that I have(firefighter,, I see many pretty bad things and we have outcomes on calls that break my heart),so for me carving is therapy and I'm sure it is that way for my others.
I wish I had the money to buy all of those books to read but I have 3 children and bills to pay and even if I did I still like to create as do many others and I'm sure that the pictures of what is in the books is but a Fraction of the carvings that have been Saved,,so who knows what else has been lost or what they look like. they may-have looked like Gmans tikis,Tikis by gary,Benzarts,Palm city tikis , Boskos tikis,Raffers tikis, Tikis by Marcus,Geckos tikis.............I could go on and on with many more of you INCREDABLY talented artists but not ONE of us really knows,so to each and every one my brothers and sisters out there , PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE come back if you were bummed and DON'T ever stop carving and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS keep thinking OUT SIDE OF THE BOXXXXXXXXXX. ALOHA TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU, ALOHA your friend MOONEY

Sometimes we say things that start fires. What I mean by fires is that words can spark a heated debate, they can cause someone to be inspired, offended etc. There has been some flaming done lately some of wich I added to. After much thinking I decided to go and relieve some stress by hammering on a log....

With no plan or thought here is what started to take shape, no its not traditional.....

Some times the things we say can come back and burn us even if we meant well. So if in the recent events I offended you or anything of that nature I am sorry. And as for taking up carving bears ......what was I thinking?

Good man, Rodeo! I'm sure it would have been a tiki bear anyway.

You are right AA. Just think about what the Bear club peeps would have said---"Man that sure ain't no bear, looks more tiki to me. Send that guy over to the tiki place, maybe they'll like his bears".
Thanks RT, I'm glad you had a change of heart/
HappyHappyHappy

May I?
I too was rather disheartened by THE THREAD and still am. In my opinion, the other thread reached into a deeper issue than just how someone chooses to create tiki, whichever approach taken. Its not just about creating tiki but perhaps even down to how we interact regarding how we perceive Tiki in this subculture we call Tiki Central.

While we are fortunate to have much aloha spirit in general, there is a tension underneath that surfaces every now and then. Some of it is simple and petty. Another form of that tension can be perceived as snobbery in a negative connotation than the "this is my opinion and personal standard" point of view. I've seen it in threads that are almost as old as TC. I believe that negative something does greater harm to this community than a faux, not quite on the mark tiki.

As for myself, I love tiki but won't ever fit in as one of the hard core. To be me is to have many eclectic interests, including the cultures themselves which some would question how tiki they are - even though the primitive art is hanging in some of our favorite restaurants (PNG, for example).

I guess what I am saying is as a community we need to step back, look at ourselves and do some thinking. How is this negative tension being created, if at all? How can we agree to disagree? How do we deal with something that can be deemed not in our subculture's concept of tiki? How can we do it better and maybe still learn and educate at the same time?

If we are all here to escape, than lets escape the very pressures that many of us are here trying to forget for a little while.

From you friendly neighborhood amateur sociologist,

Liz

Dear Ben, I know you can carve ANYTHING ! and I know that you have produced your amazing works in many different types of woods. But this thread is definitely from an olive branch. THANKS

Now to everyone: I keep thinking that if this whole discussion (from both threads) had occurred in person, with all parties present, the discussion would have had a different tone to it. What I mean by that is that I imagine it as a conversation where we can hear the passion in a persons voice and we can respond immediately and clarify things better. There is a certain disadvantage to this whole computer thing. Because although it is great that we who are literally all over the globe can converse about our favorite topic here on this fabulous website, there is a risk of mis-interpretation and you cannot see the reaction on the face of a person to the words you have chosen.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not trying to smooth anything over or make excuses or allowances for anyone or their choice of words; mine included. I just know that we have all been drawn here to Tiki Central for the same reasons and we all have room to grow (personally and artistically). I for one will try to keep an open mind and strive to improve my work as well.
Please, lets all remain friends because I really look forward to the day when I do meet fellow TC'ers in person.
I can't think how awkward it could be to know there are grudges being held here on TC. I believe in the true ohana spirit! Thanks everyone, 8FT Tiki

On 2005-11-17 17:20, 8FT Tiki wrote:
Now to everyone: I keep thinking that if this whole discussion (from both threads) had occurred in person, with all parties present, the discussion would have had a different tone to it.

It can still happen at the carving workshop next year right? I hope it's still going on although I didn't get any more details than from what's on the original thread.

There are a few people that I have interacted with here on TC. These people I trust and respect and I admire their work greatly. Now I am new at carving and have much to learn. But I really don't care to hear from someone I don't know that I need to carve traditional and to study the masters and how great an artist he perceives himself. I enjoy carving to relax and to create. I work six days a week, my wife is ill, so my time to carve is limited. What I've learned so far is to find my own style and not to knock off someone else's work. It is difficult with all of the Tiki images that I see here on TC and on the net. I want to learn different techniques of carving. I don't want to carve just tikis either. I never was one to conform to anyones demands or ideals. I will continue to carve but as for posting it's not necessary.
I have worked with glass in all forms for around 20+ years and I never needed to show other artist my work to feel well. I am very critical of my quality of work. I always push myself to do better than I'm capable of and I will continue.
Wesley
Ben- I will the funds in December to purchase anything you would be so kind to sell to us.

Great thread, Ben! I hope all is well with you these days. By the way, I appreciate the encouragement that you and other artists have always given to me and other artists here. It really is priceless. Personally, it motivates me as an artist to not just create, but to strive to create BETTER. Cheers to ya!

http://www.samgambino.com

[ Edited by: sam gambino 2005-11-18 07:36 ]

bump. this thread needs to stay close to its partner

OK then, here is an addition to my other post:

I think this impersonal internet writing IS dangerous, because it gets taken the wrong way quite often. This seems to be the case here. A lot of people mistakenly felt addressed by this, and also, a lot seem to have misunderstood BK.

I might be totally wrong (and if I am, shut up BK, I am talking here :wink: ), but when BK wrote about TRADITION, he meant BOTH: Ancient Polynesian art, AND midcentury Polynesian pop. Some seem to have misunderstood it as a "stick only to the pre-contact carvings" call.

In my understanding, that was never his intention, he rather suggested to look back and see how the Poly-pop masters of the 50s were inspired by these originals, and then re-did them in their own way. THAT whimsical creativity is what inspired me to collect all the great visuals and compile them into my book to define American Tiki into an pop art form in it's own right.

And that is the creativity that came through in the book's pages, and induced the Tiki revival, becoming an art form again, and again totally in it's own right. Tiki took new forms, some that some of us might not favor, but it cannot and shall not be just a copy of midcentury Tiki. (The most exciting thing to me is that is much less commercially driven, but more individual: More self made home bars than real restaurants, more self motivated carvers than hired hands.)

And I do believe that BK is just as much into this revival than any of us, yet concerned about it's quality. I think he is right to point out the fact that in the Tiki revival, a certain percentage of Tiki art copies from....the Tiki revival, and thus becomes repetitive. That is where the reminder to look at the classics comes in: Use them like the moderns used them, as inspiration, to then do it your own way.

Gone are the days (to me at least, and many TCers I am sure) when the pure appearance of the word Tiki was a rare occasion, and the sighting of a Tiki-like shape was exciting, and the basic motto was "Any Tiki is a good Tiki".

There is a lot of the same Tiki out there. There is a a lot of bad Tiki out there. There is a lot of too far out Tiki and a lot of Non-Tiki being called Tiki out there, but that is the price of popularity. And with "out there", I do not mean Tiki Central! And, by far, the good outweighs the bad (and the ugly is a matter of taste).

Yet I want to voice this to avoid that this whole discussion leads to a total loss of critical thought and writing, I think it is important to keep the focus on what Tiki is, and it is not a free for all shape shifting thing, but a style. If there is a lack of integrity in it, I reserve the right to point it out, as anybody here should feel free to do too.

Here are two recent examples (not to single anyone out!):

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=17337&forum=12&2

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=17296&forum=12&3

See what I mean?

I certainly see and respect your point, Sven. My feelings are that there is room for both far-out and classic-inspired. I must say that I do enjoy far-out IF it is done in a creative manner. I agree that there is tasteless too (we'd all rather not have to put up with that). As far as classic versus far-out goes, there are these differences in just about every genre - music, visual art, literature, film, product design, architecture - even in comedy. Why should the tiki genre be the exception? The artists in the '50s and '60s expanded on it, so it is inevitable that artists now will push it even further (hopefully in a tasteful manner). There is natural progression in everything - everyone doesn't have to like it. Who am I to tell someone HOW to create unless they ask for my constructive criticism? Then, I am happy to offer it in a tactful manner. Some are thin-skinned - I don't consider myself to be, but at the same time, I respect those who are. If I don't like a design, then I look at what I like.

I appreciate that you chimed in as I wondered what you had to say. After all, I feel that this topic is tailor-made for your input.
These are just my thoughts. Please forgive me if I rambled... I've inhaled quite a bit of oil-based paint over the years :wink: .

[ Edited by: sam gambino 2005-11-20 17:48 ]

Manokoa, As far as I am concerned, this does NOT effect the upcoming carving seminar. I want to thank everyone for adding their input, even though most of you never saw the original post, it is best left alone. I believe all parties have "Kissed and made up" and we can go on from here. I apologize if I have offended anyone during the heated discussion.
"Can't we all just get along? Now where did I hear that?
HappyHappyHappy.

LOL well this is what I put in the other thread, and it works just as well here for what I need to say :) I personally love seeing all the styles and ideas that abound here, and would be saddned if anyone stopped creating because someone decided it wasn't the "right" way to do it. Hell if the art world worked that way we would never have even figured out perspective!

I'm not a carver & I'll admit to not reading all the replies to this thread.
What concerns me is are we discussing TIKI as an art form? Or are we discussing TIKI as a cultural Icon or are we discussing TIKI as a spiritual thing? Personally I find them all to be valid but different concepts.

TIKI as an art form should be accepted in whatever shape form the artist envisions it. If you don't like it that’s totally fine, however it does not make it any less artistic. Art is subjective there is no simple way to say that’s right & that’s wrong.

TIKI as a cultural Icon depends on which culture, time, socio-economic strata your discussing.

TIKI as a spiritual thing, well it's not my personal spiritual history, so were I to try and produce a "true spiritual TIKI" I would have to study it to understand it.

That does not however change the fact that as an artist I can play with the idea of the spirituality.

There is always a place for traditional art, for keeping a tradition alive and honest and true to the original meaning of that art, keeping the traditional methods and designs. However that is not the ONLY way to do it.

well thats my take on it.

edited for crappy typos only

[ Edited by: wicked 2005-11-21 08:47 ]

I just thought I'd bump this one back up to da top.

Maybe this will inspire even more people to attend the seminar next year. I'm excited by the talent that it will bring into the same area and since we all see how passionate we can get about the subject, I know that even though some bickering has occurred on the boards, in each others presence this discussion will only result in some great things happening.