Home brew orgeat

I'm going to revive this for a damned handy "tool" that I ran into recently, and man does it help when making Orgeat from blanched almonds...

To quote The Gnomon from page 1:

The Gnomon wrote:
Next I take my colander-filtered milk and strain it through a screen strainer. If I were to go directly to the cheescloth without this and the preceding step, it would take forever to remove the almond gunk from the milk. It clogs up the cheesecloth easily, so nothing drains. If you have to squeeze the cheesecloth too hard, it breaks and sends almond gunk down into the filtered reservoir.

I found Nylon Straining Bags at a local beer- and wine-making shop. Basically they're nylon cheesecloth bags, washable, reusable, and strong. They're made for straining the juice from grapes and such. I found them in Fine and Coarse, and I think they both are useful - use the coarse for the first straining or two, and the fine for the final squeeze. The Coarse is actually quite fine, and the Fine is insanely fine. When folded the bag can be supported in a colander for simple straining. Finally, use the Fine and pour the almond mash inside and squeeze - you can squeeze the heck out of the almond goop with these. And then you just turn them inside-out and throw them in the washing machine. Very nice.

http://www.beer-wine.com/product.asp?sectionID=1&CategoryID=12&productID=1112

[ Edited by: Scottes 2007-10-01 18:24 ]

Heck yes, these are definitely the way to go! I strained the water-laden goop through the Coarse, doing a basic separation of the liquid leaving wet almond mash. I then loaded a fist-full of wet mash at a time into the bag and squeezed the heck out of it, getting the rest of the liquid out. Finally I laid the Fine into the colander with another bowl underneath and strained to get the last final bits of almond out. Total time to strain 2 quarts of almond milk was about 10 minutes, and pretty darned painless and very clean. And they're re-usable. Nice.

[ Edited by: Scottes 2007-10-02 07:16 ]

On 2007-10-01 19:07, Scottes wrote:

And then you just turn them inside-out and throw them in the washing machine. Very nice.

Do I throw them in with my other delicates? Or can I wash them with my Aloha shirts? Scottes, I think you may have turned the Tide on this one. Orgeat with a hint of Downey.

Thanks for the link. It sounds like a winner. Extracting the almond milk from the mash is the most tedious stage of making orgeat. The second is making the mash. If you can solve the straining problem, then it will give incentive to make a lot more real orgeat (as opposed to Emergency).

Its effectiveness will reveal itself when the orgeat layers. Usually, there are three layers: the froth at the top; the syrup in the middle; and the residual almond particles falling to the bottom. If you can eliminate the particles at the bottom, then you've hit the jackpot. The froth at the top is to be expected (desirable actually) and is fairly easily removed. If your orgeat doesn't layer at all when you've finished cooking and let it sit, you've done something wrong. The particles at the bottom, however, are a reflection of the efficiency in the straining process.

I'm looking forward to ordering a couple of bags (coarse and fine) and trying it out.

I effectively had ZERO particles.

Of course, there were some, but a way-less-than-insignificant amount.

Another tip or two from what I learned last night...

The amount of water you use when soaking the crushed almond is somewhat important if you have 1 bottle and want maximum almond flavor. If you want 750ml of orgeat, I'd use about 600ml of water if you use the nylon bags and squeeze like heck, or 650ml if you wimpily strain and lose some water left in the almond mash. When you add sugar you'll come back up to the level needed to fill a bottle. (I'm estimating the numbers here a little bit.)

I didn't measure when I soaked and used too much water. I'd rather have a stronger almond taste rather than some left over, so I then put the almond milk on the stove and tried to reduce it by simmering. It didn't reduce, and it did change color since it cooks easily and it ended up the color of a demerara simple syrup. Of course, the taste is off a bit. While I like this taste - it's now an interesting simple syrup - I don't consider it a real orgeat and I plan to do another batch.

Darcy O'Neill at the Art Of Drink recommends 500mg of almonds & 800ml of water. My recommendation - since I like the strong almond taste - is 750mg of almonds and 700ml of water. Darcy's is probably more authentic but I just like the extra almond boost. You could add some high-quality almond extract to boost the almond taste but the taste of orgeat is not quite the same as almond extract. The orgeat is a heck of a lot more interesting.

Oh, and since I mentioned Darcy's recipe let me say that I would never, ever use "table sugar" as he recommends. It's so highly refined that it's just sweet and blech. Do yourself a favor and use sugar from evaporated cane juice. If you don't have a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods or some other organic market around, then check your local StupidMarket for the Domino brand stuff.

Lastly, I don't know if it's mentioned above but be sure to separate the layers of Almond Milk before adding the sugar!

On 2007-10-02 07:37, Scottes wrote:
Another tip or two from what I learned last night...

The amount of water you use when soaking the crushed almond is somewhat important if you have 1 bottle and want maximum almond flavor. If you want 750ml of orgeat, I'd use about 600ml of water if you use the nylon bags and squeeze like heck, or 650ml if you wimpily strain and lose some water left in the almond mash. When you add sugar you'll come back up to the level needed to fill a bottle. (I'm estimating the numbers here a little bit.)

Right you are. The strongest of the milk remains with the mash unless you can squeeze it out. That's the whole point/virtue of the bags you located. You have the ability to squeeze that out rather effortlessly. Woo hoo!

I didn't measure when I soaked and used too much water. I'd rather have a stronger almond taste rather than some left over, so I then put the almond milk on the stove and tried to reduce it by simmering. It didn't reduce, and it did change color since it cooks easily and it ended up the color of a demerara simple syrup. Of course, the taste is off a bit. While I like this taste - it's now an interesting simple syrup - I don't consider it a real orgeat and I plan to do another batch.

Had I ever done a step by step here of the complete cooking process, I'd have emphasized that you need to use a candy thermometer (about a foot long and ½" thick with a little clip to hold it to the side of your pot) and carefully control the cooking temperature so as not to get too close to boiling. Otherwise, you get that toasted almond effect, and not in a particularly good way.

One method of accelerating the milk extraction speed is to heat the water and almond mash. I do not recommend that option. For me it has degraded the quality while only speeding things up a little. So I recommend letting it sit overnight or longer. The method for heating the water and mash is to maintain a temperature of halfway to boiling for about 15 minutes or so. Halfway to boiling is 50°C (let's see 212 minus 32 equals 180 divided by 2 equals 90 plus 32 equals 122°F ... or you could do 125° which is easier to track on the thermometer).

When it comes to actually cooking the syrup, you want to make sure you don't overheat it, so I'll hike up the temperature from halfway to boiling to somewhere between two thirds (67°C/152°F) and three quarters(75°C/167°F), or thereabouts. The cooler the temp the longer it takes, but it is far better to take longer and have a great end result than suffer the consequences of scalding the almonds. At the first sign of color change (which is harder to detect if you are using a dark sugar), you have to take it off the heat and try to cool it off rapidly (sit the pot down in a big pan of cold water). To be on the safe side, don't crank up the heat too much in the first place.

Darcy O'Neill at the Art Of Drink recommends 500mg of almonds & 800ml of water. My recommendation - since I like the strong almond taste - is 750mg of almonds and 700ml of water. Darcy's is probably more authentic but I just like the extra almond boost. You could add some high-quality almond extract to boost the almond taste but the taste of orgeat is not quite the same as almond extract. The orgeat is a heck of a lot more interesting.

I like it strong as well. I also like a heavier dose of rose water and orange flower water than you find in commercial orgeat.

I don't go by specific weight and volume. You've seen the plastic containers I use from a previous post. I fill the water until it covers all of the almond mash. If the almond doesn't sit in the water it isn't going to milk. Whatever mash weight to water volume that turns out to be, I don't know or care. If you don't put in enough water to reach all of the almond mash nuggetrines (nugget smitherines) then you won't be milking all of your mash. If you put way too much water in, then you're just watering down your milk. I don't think you should go by strict measures. Go by where the water level reaches all of the almond material. A little too much water is better than not quite enough.

As for almond extract. I consider it a doctoring tool to help keep a botched batch from becoming a total loss. But it is made from bitter almonds rather than the sweet almonds used in the orgeat. It is a different almond flavor, albeit one that is more familiar to most than that of sweet almonds. The goal in making orgeat is to capture the essence of the sweet almonds.

NOTE: Some old recipes call for a mixture of both sweet and bitter almonds to go into the orgeat. Do not follow those recipes. Bitter almonds contain a decent jolt of cyanide. Before using bitter almonds for anything they must first be stripped of their toxins. This is done, of course, in the process of making pure almond extract. If you don't detoxify your bitter almonds before using them to make orgeat, enjoy your hydrogen cyanide while supplies or you last.

Oh, and since I mentioned Darcy's recipe let me say that I would never, ever use "table sugar" as he recommends. It's so highly refined that it's just sweet and blech. Do yourself a favor and use sugar from evaporated cane juice. If you don't have a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods or some other organic market around, then check your local StupidMarket for the Domino brand stuff.

I agree on the quality sugar, however, I do make different kinds of orgeat and I rather enjoy the batches where I use turbinado sugar (I use Sugar in the Raw from Maui—readily available in markets all over). Using various kinds of sugar will impact the color of the orgeat (and flavor, of course). Using the evaporated cane sugar (which I do mostly) seems to bring out the almond color rather than impart any of its own to a noticeable degree.

Lastly, I don't know if it's mentioned above but be sure to separate the layers of Almond Milk before adding the sugar!

Yep. You'll get some layering after the sugar is cooked in, no matter what. If you don't try to reduce the layers while the milk is just milk, then you will end up with some heavy duty layers after your finished syrup sits for a while.

As for the rum—I used various kinds in very small batches (especially, Emergency), but for my standard batches I use W&N White Overproof. I have yet to find anything that can match or surpass it when it comes to orgeat. Just from experience, I get the impression that W&N WO was created for such purposes. I don't know of that many drinks where it really fits in. But I use it for all of my rum infusions (sorry, I haven't yet checked out that link you posted in Bumbo), and all of my fruit soaking, in my containers of fresh guava, passion fruit, and mango pulps, and just about everything else that's not a drink.

OK, real good info here. Except the lack of measurements. :)

Re: Squeezing. My better half says I have a grip of steel and I can close jars and bottles tighter than the factory. My final almond "mash" after squeezing was basically fist-shaped clumps of dry almond dust which
disintegrated on contact with air. The nylon bag held up wonderfully, whereas cheesecloth would have fallen apart and made a mess.

Re: Measuring. You've obviously made this several times before, and you have a good idea of how much almond and water to use. For now, I'm going to measure, and record my findings.

And yes, I'm going to make another batch, cleanly and correctly. I'll measure the water this time, and use X ounces of almonds, and remark about how strong it is.

About the heating process... Key point there! That explains why my last batch came out too dark, too. It seems that the right temperature is "just hot enough to melt the sugar." I can say fairly certainly that you will cook the stuff long before you reduce it noticeably. 2 hours of simmering reduced the mixture by about 10%. Which goes back to the water, I guess, and using the "right" amount.

Re: Water. I originally poured in enough water to cover the almonds, by by the next morning the almonds soaked up quite a bit, resulting in a consistency of cold oatmeal. This was because after washing the almonds I dried them by placing them on cookie sheets and throwing them into a 150F oven for 20 minutes, stirred them up, and returned them to the oven for 10 minutes. This resulted in warm (maybe 105F) almonds that were very dry. The very dry almonds did chop very nicely in my mini food-processor. But some of what The Gnomon says means that I will keep a very close eye on this step, stirring frequently, to make sure that I don't cook the almonds. I think a food dehydrator would be perfect, but that adds another day to the process.

Nice point about the W&N WO - that sounds ideal due to its strength (thus less is needed to preserve) and lack of taste (so as not to change the flavor).

Sugar: Table sugar will keep the orgeat nice and white. The evaporated can juice sugar is close, but much much better. Using turbinado is very tasty for sure, but IMHO that's starting to get away from "proper" orgeat. Demerara or muscavado or brown sugars would all be very tasty but getting even further from "proper."

All nice info, and nice lessons learned. My next batch should be absolutely perfect.
And the nice thing is that even if it isn't perfect it's damned tasty anyway. The stuff I messed up last night is delicious despite the cooking and other mistakes.

On 2007-10-02 13:27, Scottes wrote:
Re: Squeezing. My better half says I have a grip of steel and I can close jars and bottles tighter than the factory. My final almond "mash" after squeezing was basically fist-shaped clumps of dry almond dust which
disintegrated on contact with air. The nylon bag held up wonderfully, whereas cheesecloth would have fallen apart and made a mess.

That's why I'm anxious to try those things. You have to be so careful with cheesecloth 'cause it breaks so easily. You can get heavy duty cheesecloth(I'll dig up the link to a source), but the nylon thing sounds more promising.

Re: Measuring. You've obviously made this several times before, and you have a good idea of how much almond and water to use. For now, I'm going to measure, and record my findings.

Your measurements will be of interest and you'll end up knowing what measurements will fill up a 750ml bottle for example (I use larger clamp stopper bottles and decant into smaller ones). My measurements are pretty exact, but they are not in terms of weight or volume. Level out the mash in a container. Add water until the water level matches the level of the mash.

About the heating process... Key point there! That explains why my last batch came out too dark, too. It seems that the right temperature is "just hot enough to melt the sugar." I can say fairly certainly that you will cook the stuff long before you reduce it noticeably. 2 hours of simmering reduced the mixture by about 10%. Which goes back to the water, I guess, and using the "right" amount.

OK. Maybe the long wait can be considered one of the tedious factors of making orgeat, but at least, it's just waiting and stirring longer. The other tedious aspects are messy chores.

Re: Water. I originally poured in enough water to cover the almonds, by by the next morning the almonds soaked up quite a bit, resulting in a consistency of cold oatmeal. This was because after washing the almonds I dried them by placing them on cookie sheets and throwing them into a 150F oven for 20 minutes, stirred them up, and returned them to the oven for 10 minutes. This resulted in warm (maybe 105F) almonds that were very dry. The very dry almonds did chop very nicely in my mini food-processor. But some of what The Gnomon says means that I will keep a very close eye on this step, stirring frequently, to make sure that I don't cook the almonds. I think a food dehydrator would be perfect, but that adds another day to the process.

I do not dry out the almonds other than to get rid of most of the excess rinse water from rinsing off the almonds from the store (quick evaporation with a small hand-held fan). When I let my almonds and water sit overnight, it's in an airtight container. None of the water evaporates. The almonds remain moist from the time they get their bath to rinse off the store dust until they're fully milked. When I return to it the next day, the level of the liquid is pretty much the same as it was when I left it. Only slightly less, which is why it's better to put a little too much water than too little.

Nice point about the W&N WO - that sounds ideal due to its strength (thus less is needed to preserve) and lack of taste (so as not to change the flavor).

It does have a nice funky (kerosene) flavor when you put it in drinks or drink it straight, but when it becomes part of the orgeat or gets mixed in with other stuff, its characteristic flavor seems to vanish.

Sugar: Table sugar will keep the orgeat nice and white. The evaporated can juice sugar is close, but much much better. Using turbinado is very tasty for sure, but IMHO that's starting to get away from "proper" orgeat. Demerara or muscavado or brown sugars would all be very tasty but getting even further from "proper."

Yep. The white sugar thing is what I believe is used commercially. They might as well. Nobody is stopping them and it's cheaper. I prefer mine to have natural colors. Not "bleached."

As for "proper" orgeat, I guess you mean orgeat that is probably closest to what VJB Jr. used to create his masterpieces. Orgeat, like Bumbo (or any kind of stew), has a basic recipe that is really generic. The variations to the basic recipe tend to be infinitely better (or worse, depending on if you're a good cook or a train wreck) but can all be considered "authentic" as long as they conform to the essential elements.

Once you get through your codification of the basic recipe, I bet you branch out and create a few unique recipes that you'll prefer and use pretty much all the time. It's inevitable. You heard it here first. :)

All nice info, and nice lessons learned. My next batch should be absolutely perfect.
And the nice thing is that even if it isn't perfect it's damned tasty anyway. The stuff I messed up last night is delicious despite the cooking and other mistakes.

Mistakes are often the sources of great new creations. You and I have different agenda. You are trying to nail down a recipe that everyone can turn to when they need to make something that conforms to a generic standard. My insights are to help people make something that is "authentic" and better than what they can buy ready-made. I don't, generally, make two batches exactly the same, though most are similar enough to each other, all are fantastic (unless I royally screw it up due to negligence, which has been known to happen). Both approaches are completely valid and non-adversarial in any way.

I look forward to your findings.

Freakin' spelling got me again.

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2007-10-02 14:18 ]

You know, as to measuring, you're right. Regardless of how much almonds you have, using enough water to cover them gives one the same strength of almond milk. And it's easier than measuring.

Alas, doing it this way means one could end up with 800ml of orgeat, or 700ml. Being a little OCD this is wrong. I want to perfectly fill a 750ml bottle. Call me crazy...

Actually, my agenda is to "perfect" the recipe, thus giving me a starting point to branch out. Until that perfect recipe is achieved everything that happens is an accident. Not that this is bad, because orgeat accidents taste fantastic, but I'm looking for a perfect starting point. Then I know that I'll branch out, particularly when working it for a particular drink.

Concerning the drying... If the almonds are too moist they end up clumping in my little food processor, so I wanted them dry so they chop better. But if they're too dry the food processor creates to much almond powder which doesn't filter out easily. Now that I think about it, patting with paper towels is probably fine, and fast.

Reading this whole exchange has been absolutely amazing to me. I don't think surgeons are as careful or precise with what they do - but then again it's not as important either.

All I can really say is that this stuff must taste fantastic to go through all this effort. Makes me feel like I am cheating using Fee Brothers.

Keep at it! Try facing the almonds to the north and crushing them at exactly 14 minutes past the hour with one eye closed!

On 2007-10-03 06:39, leisure master wrote:
Makes me feel like I am cheating using Fee Brothers.

You are cheating my friend. You're cheating yourself. Through this thread you'll be able to do what so many cannot, acquire a stock of world class orgeat without the traditional mess and hardships.

Try facing the almonds to the north and crushing them at exactly 14 minutes past the hour with one eye closed!

M'kay. Would that be magnetic North or can we just point it toward Polaris. Which hour? Happy Hour? Or can we just pick one? Which eye? Either? I might try half closing both to find out if the resulting effect is the same. Thanks.

Dang. Shoulda checked my BBcode before submitting.

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2007-10-03 08:16 ]

On 2007-10-02 15:50, Scottes wrote:
Alas, doing it this way means one could end up with 800ml of orgeat, or 700ml. Being a little OCD this is wrong. I want to perfectly fill a 750ml bottle. Call me crazy...

Whereas I don't care how much I end up with as long as it is exactly plenty. As for being OCD, I'm not positive, but isn't that an impossibility in the world of tiki where obsession and cumpulsion is practically a requirement, not a disorder?

Concerning the drying... If the almonds are too moist they end up clumping in my little food processor, so I wanted them dry so they chop better. But if they're too dry the food processor creates to much almond powder which doesn't filter out easily. Now that I think about it, patting with paper towels is probably fine, and fast.

Whenever you rinse them off from the store the milking process has begun. You don't want to stop that, you just want to get the excess tap water off of them before soaking in the purified water. This you do while the milking process is begining, so you only lose a very little of the milk. That's why you can only afford to rinse them for up to 30 minutes. After that the milking process is in full flow.

You don't want to abort the milking process once it's started. I think you'll get a lot less quality to the milk. Once the milk starts flowing you don't want to do anything that will slow that down one bit. Drying them out more than slows the process it brings it to a complete stop.

The moist nuggetrines clump up in my little Magic Bullet as well. You have to do lots of small amounts rather than try to do them all at once. Use just enough almonds so that they're done by the time they start to clump. That's the most efficient/fastest way I've found with the equipment I have.

I haven't tried this because of the $1500 price tag (expensive experiment), but I thought probably the best way to get the most milk out of the almonds would be to get a nut grinder like the one in these pics to make fresh almond butter.

Then put the almond butter in a blender with the water and let it blend on slow for an optimum period of time (yet to be determined). Because the almond particles would all be so small as to form butter, the overnight wait for the milk would not be necessary. It would take very little time for the emulsion to reach its peak, I would think. You might want to see if you can make almond butter using your food processor.

Of course, the nylon bags you found might not have a fine enough mesh to hold the ultra fine almond particles, so heavy-duty cheesecloth might be required.

BTW, here's the link to that cheesecloth supplier I was talking about (The Rag Lady).

Potential flaw in this method. We know that the finer we chop the almonds the more almond surfaces there are to be exposed to the water. The more almond surfaces that are exposed to the water, the more efficient the mash is in producing milk. What we don't know is whether or not there is a limit to which the almonds can be chopped and still be capable of making milk. I'm guessing that there isn't, but I'm not prepared to make it a $1500 guess. :)

It is quite possible that when the almonds have been ground down to the point that they become nut butter that the oils needed to interact with the water to create the emulsion (milk) might be exposed to other chemicals from the almond that would prohibit the emulsion from taking place. Once again, I highly doubt it. I think that the fresh almond butter will just allow the almond oils to come in contact with the water much faster and in greater quantity than the methods we are using.

Some people's food processors are supposedly capable of making peanut butter, so if yours is one, maybe you could conduct the experiment. If it works like a charm, we might be making real orgeat at record speed with minimal mess and effort.

When will I learn to check my spelling?
Never

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2007-10-03 09:31 ]

JOE! Dump The Fee's!

The first time I made Orgeat I compared it against the Fee's. The Fee's sucked. My Orgeat is nowhere near as good as my next batch will be now that I know about several more mistakes I've made, and still the Fee's sucked. Dude, it burned the back of my throat! Ack! I dumped it, all 735ml that I had left out of the original 750.

Obviously, now I know that I will be bringing a bottle of the home-made to your house. And I think there's a good chance that you will dump your Fee's.

As to the dedication and precision... Well, I know that The Gnomon and I agree that our intention here is to make your life better, along with anyone else who reads this drivel.

And that reminds me about one thing I should have explained earlier. I have never had good orgeat. All I have ever had was the Fee's. So my pursuit of "perfect" orgeat is a quest to understand what it's supposed to taste like. So far I have made 3 or 4 batches, and have screwed up every one, primarily because I cooked it by boiling it in an attempt to reduce every batch in order to get the strongest almond taste.

OCD... I don't think Tiki is supposed to be compulsive or obsessive. I have always thought of it as being extremely laid back and comfortable.

However, when it comes to tiki cocktails that's thrown out the window for some of us. A perfect Mai Tai is relaxing. An imperfect Mai Tai makes me want a perfect Mai Tai so I can relax...

Almond Mash... Yes, I definitely think you can go too fine. Ideally I think that every single almond particle would be slightly too big to fit through a fine filter. Yeah, perfect.

Drying and milking... Given that the almond oil doesn't evaporate I think that washing and drying them as quickly as possible is key. Save all the oil in the almond. For instance I think that "soaking them for no more than 30 minutes" (para-phrasing somebody in this thread) is not ideal. Rinse them quickly, dry them quickly, keep all the oil in the almond. If the rinse starts the milking process then stop it as soon as possible to allow maximum control and oil extraction. That's my theory.

Dang. Now I have to test that theory one of these days. I'm going to go make a near-pefect Mai Tai...

PS: Joe!! Dump the Fee's!!!

Spelling... Firefox 2.0 or later has a built-in spell-checker. It will highlight words you mispell - like that one. Misspell - that one's OK.

On 2007-10-03 18:43, Scottes wrote:
OCD... I don't think Tiki is supposed to be compulsive or obsessive. I have always thought of it as being extremely laid back and comfortable.

Think of obsession and compulsion like a human body plumetting through the air toward the ground. If the action is one of having jumped off the roof of a ten story building, that's a disorder. If it is having exited an aircraft at 14,000 feet with a few buddies to enjoy an exhillerating free fall, that's not a disorder (OK, maybe it is :) ).

In both cases the body accelerates toward terminal velocity. In the first case, the ground terminates the velocity. In the other, in about 12 seconds you all settle in at an Earthbound 120 mph and for a minute seem to float suspended in air, chillin' with just about the best panoramic vista you can get without an oxygen mask. Then you get to pop your canopy and enjoy the glide on down to terra firma.

Hmmmm. I might be reaching a bit to defend my position. But you have to admit, I do go out of my way to have a nice view.

Almond Mash... Yes, I definitely think you can go too fine. Ideally I think that every single almond particle would be slightly too big to fit through a fine filter. Yeah, perfect.

I guess that means you're not going to try the almond butter experiment with your food processor.

Drying and milking... Given that the almond oil doesn't evaporate I think that washing and drying them as quickly as possible is key. Save all the oil in the almond. For instance I think that "soaking them for no more than 30 minutes" (para-phrasing somebody in this thread) is not ideal. Rinse them quickly, dry them quickly, keep all the oil in the almond. If the rinse starts the milking process then stop it as soon as possible to allow maximum control and oil extraction. That's my theory.

Yeah. The 30 minutes thing is from traditional recipes. If you exceed it, you'll see that you're wasting milk. The pre-milk bath is also supposed to get the milking process to start working up its head of steam. If you stop that, my experience is that you cause the almond surfaces to kinda "heal" up and not deliver as well. But as my economy surgeon always says to me when he's finished playing around with my insides, "suture yourself."

PS: Joe!! Dump the Fee's!!!

OK OK...I want to dump the Fee's, but I just don't have the time (and probably the ability to be honest) to make my own orgeat. I can barely make toast. Plus the fact that the kitchen in my apartment is smaller than your average closet makes it tough to get it together.

Maybe once I taste this stuff I will have to keep it coming...thanks for bringing some if you can Scott.

Out of curiosity, how long does the fresh stuff last? Your answer is probably "one day" because it is consumed that quickly. But seriously, does this stuff have any kind of shelf (or fridge) life?

I am glad you both took my message the way I intended. I am truly impressed with your quest for excellence!

PS - magnetic north, 7pm, left eye.

On 2007-10-04 08:32, leisure master wrote:

OK OK...I want to dump the Fee's, but I just don't have the time (and probably the ability to be honest) to make my own orgeat. I can barely make toast. Plus the fact that the kitchen in my apartment is smaller than your average closet makes it tough to get it together.

Maybe once I taste this stuff I will have to keep it coming...thanks for bringing some if you can Scott.

I suggest you try the Emergency Orgeat route. I use that a lot myself. I'm out of the real stuff and I prefer to wait until I have the time to do it right before making any batch that involves chopping up blanched almonds.

Out of curiosity, how long does the fresh stuff last? Your answer is probably "one day" because it is consumed that quickly. But seriously, does this stuff have any kind of shelf (or fridge) life?

The Emergency stuff lasts longer onnacounta the almond milk in the carton has ingredients with chemical names (aka preservatives). That combined with the rum gives it considerable room temperature longevity.

The fresh stuff, OTOH, has no preservatives other than the rum, so it can do alright at room temperature for a while, especially, out of the sun in a cabinet. I have not tested how long it lasts, but such a test could be made with a horribly botched batch that won't otherwise be used.

Over Thanksgiving I made a botched batch which resulted in excessive layering. I bottled it but was too lazy to extract the orgeat out from between the thick sediment at the bottom and the thick froth at the top. So I left it alone and just kept making Emergency for a while. I think it was February or March when I finally did anything with them. They looked like they had curdled or something. When I popped the stoppers it was obvious that they had turned. I didn't check to see if that was a good thing (delicacy of some sort) but just poured them down the drain. To get your answer I'd have to wait until I ruined another batch (which good be quite a wait) and then use the batch to divide into lots of test samples.

Refrigeration will extend its longevity, but I prefer mine at room temperature. Fortunately, as you mentioned, I use it up long before it can spoil.

I am glad you both took my message the way I intended. I am truly impressed with your quest for excellence!

Thanks for sayin' so, but I'm just lookin' for a hot piece of ass.

PS - magnetic north, 7pm, left eye.

Oh, dude! Didn't anyone tell you. She died in a car crash in Honduras.

Lisa "Left Eye" Lopes

Good choice though. She was definitely questworthy.

!@#$%^&* spelling.

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2007-10-04 10:00 ]

Alright. You guys have sucked me into this madness now.

I have declared a state of emergency for tonight and will try to make the requisite emergency orgeat.

However, I wanted to see if you could provide some more details to make your recipe more fool-proof (and I will be the fool to prove it).

OK, now here is where I start sounding like you two:

In the "First Minute" of the recipe, the ratio of almond milk to sugar is not clear to me - you seem to be using a small blender with a container that is not wider at the top or bottom, while I only have a traditional blender that is much wider at the top than the bottom, so I think it will take a lot more sugar than I need to fill it so the liquid is close to the top.

Do you have a sense of the ratio I should use (like 1 cup sugar for every X ounces of almond milk)? Even a guess would be good because your guess would be MUCH better than my guess.

and remember, this is an emergency.

On 2007-10-05 08:45, leisure master wrote:
In the "First Minute" of the recipe, the ratio of almond milk to sugar is not clear to me - you seem to be using a small blender with a container that is not wider at the top or bottom, while I only have a traditional blender that is much wider at the top than the bottom, so I think it will take a lot more sugar than I need to fill it so the liquid is close to the top.

Do you have a sense of the ratio I should use (like 1 cup sugar for every X ounces of almond milk)? Even a guess would be good because your guess would be MUCH better than my guess.

Eyeballing it is good enough, but I wouldn't do that in the odd shaped blender.

In the pic below, you can see the sugar that has settled to the bottom. I poured it through the milk, so it's wet and has turned to its natural color. That is about one-third of the combined volumes of the milk and the sugar.

Keep in mind that the mixture shown also contains the rose and orange flower water and the rum. The ratio shown is a bit sweeter than I like, especially, since I have powerful rock candy syrup on hand. My orgeat doesn't need to be that sweet. The batch shown would have been better had I used a little less sugar.

I think that if you use a 3:1 volume ratio you'll be fine. The ratio used in the photo was more like 2:1. You could, for example, dump one cup of sugar in the blender followed by three cups of almond milk. Total of four cups so far, which is about right for a five cup blender.

Then add several drops of rose water and orange flower water; then about 2 jiggers (3 oz) of rum. Blend for a few seconds, then taste it. There's room in the blender to adjust the sweetness by adding either more sugar or more milk. If you add anything, blend again for a few seconds, then let it sit. Once the froth has all floated to the top, suck it off with a drinking straw.

About the froth. It is slightly chalky but tastes just like the finished orgeat you're trying to remove it from. It is just as sweet, has the same flavors, it's just chalky and cloudy. I mainly send it into the kitchen sink and down the drain, but it's actually OK for drinks, especially, drinks that are not intended to be transparent. So, sometimes I spoon most of the froth off the top and put that into a small container and then vacuum off the rest to tidy up the finished orgeat.

Before you start, have a container to put it in. It will be less than 5 cups (40 oz), so you could re-use two 20 oz plastic water bottles if worse comes to worse. If you don't have one, pick up a cheap funnel in the grocery store cooking equipment section.

Whew - thanks for the quick reply G. You work well in an emergency.

Nothing to do now but get to it. I will start with the 3:1 ratio and see where it goes from there.

Can't wait to see the look on Nicole's face when she sees me setting up to make something in the kitchen. funny stuff.

Hopefully next report with drink in hand, appropriate savage jungle music on the stereo and ballgame on the tube (hey, every person's tiki paradise is their own).

Yes sir, fresh orgeat for the mai tais, long weekend...good times, good times.

Thanks again.

On 2007-10-05 11:35, leisure master wrote:
Can't wait to see the look on Nicole's face when she sees me setting up to make something in the kitchen. funny stuff.

It's just a blender, Dude! Party on!

Joe, if it helps, Darcy O'Neill's (The Art Of Drink) recipe calls for 800ml of water and 500g of sugar. So TG's 3:1 is pretty damned close to that, so I'd say it's a go.

Well.. I am certainly excited to see where this thread has gone. Lots of great work being done on this subject. Hopefully folks will see that commercial orgeat is truly terrible stuff by comparison to homemade.

One note I'd like to make here:

I don't agree that extracts are a mere attempt at a fix. We must remember that we are trying to create a useful recipe for the home bartender, and the palate that exists within the populace for orgeat is one that has been trained by commercial brands.

So at least for myself, I am looking for a suitable substitute for the store bought junk that uses better ingredients, and approximates the flavor of the popular versions, but without the plastic tones and the corn syrup mouth feel.

If you use an organic extract, coupled with a hint of store bought almond milk, I think you will have the best possible compromise. To milk the ground almonds is a tedious task that most simply will never bother with. And of those who do try it once, most will never bother again.

I question whether the orgeat that Vic used for the Mai Tai was made without almond extract. I would remind everyone that it is possible to go too far back when it comes to cocktails from the tiki era. (see the falernum argument)

So if we are seeking an orgeat that would be true to the kitchen of a circa 1800s french country estate, then our recipe would likely differ from what we seek to recreate from Vic's 1940s bar.

And I found that orgeat was often made from barley as well. It might have been the original version.

It pays to make the pure form from the ground up (pun intended) with almonds.. this gives you the palate and perspective of extremes, but to me it pays to seek the useful balance in between.

I do not grind pommegranates for grenadine anymore either, as commericial pure pomm concentrates make real grenadine such a snap to create. Sure, the roots form does have a solid tannic kick to it that the concentrates lack, but I'll bet that tannin was not part of the equation in most drinks that utilize it.

Great work folks, I'd love to pow wow with all of you in a kitchen some time.

Ahu

Fraternal Order of Moai

[ Edited by: KuKuAhu 2007-10-08 08:33 ]

[ Edited by: KuKuAhu 2007-10-08 08:34 ]

On 2007-10-08 08:32, KuKuAhu wrote:
To milk the ground almonds is a tedious task that most simply will never bother with. And of those who do try it once, most will never bother again.

Except for knuckleheads like me. I'll be making my 4th attempt shortly, after 3 mistakes. Delicious mistakes, quite certainly, but I still don't really know what orgeat is supposed to taste like.

Along the same vein as KuKuAhu's general feeling, I have to wonder how much difference this will make in a Mai Tai. I'll have to make 3 some night: one with Fee's, with with The Gnomon's Emergency Orgeat, and one with the full-up ground almond process.

My feeling is that there will be a very slight difference.

But, there are 6 ingredients in a Mai Tai. If one chose 6 ingredients, each slightly better than an alternative, one would have a Mai Tai with a significant difference.

Orgeat is a name that comes from horchata (I forget what the Latin is for horchata—might be horchata), the discovery of which dates back to ancient Egypt where it was made out of chufa (tiger nuts—ouch!). Anyway, horchata refers to the nut milk drink, regardless of variations in the recipes. A lot of horchata is made out of rice, for example.

Orgeat seems to be a French translation of horchata and the traditional French recipe used almonds. I don't know if French recipes used anything else besides almonds, but if they did, those recipes don't seem to have surfaced.

Assuming that the Trader used high quality French orgeat (as we'd expect), it is doubtful that the orgeat contained any essence of bitter almonds. Almond extract is made from bitter almonds, which is different from the flavor of sweet almonds.

I'm thinking that the freshest almonds make for the strongest almond flavor in the orgeat. If the almonds are not very fresh, then the flavor will be weaker. That's why I think that some of my batches have stronger almond flavor than others—the freshness of the nuts.

I would be happy if they made sweet almond extract. That way, I could make high quality flavor repairs to batches made from not so fresh almonds. Using the almond extract that we find in the store, made from bitter almonds, changes the flavor away from the sweet almond.

Because it changes the flavor to that of an almond that's not supposed to be in the orgeat, I consider using it to be an act of desperation. I've used it many times myself, which is to say I've become desperate many times. You spend $50 or more ifor the ingredients and when the batch goes wrong, anything you do to keep it out of the drain is an act of desperation. None of the remedies make it "right," but rather make it tolerable.

While agree to some extent, and can certainly admire the effort, I am considering a level of diminishing returns here that out weighs the process involved. To make better orgeat for less money and without chemicals is one thing... but to swear all but the 19th century from scratch version to be a total waste is innacurate and ignores 70 years of bartending.

I am willing to bet that by 1940, the French were shipping extract orgeats.

And actually, horchata and orgeat have little to do with one another outside of being similar grain emulsions.

Orge is French for barley. Orgeat was barely water before it became almond water (presumably sometime after the crusades... around the time marzipan was invented). For instance, "barley water" in Italian is "orzata". Italian for almond is "mandorla", and Spanish for almond is "almendra".

I guess for me it is like raising my own cattle to make a good steak... sure, I can concentrate on what I feed these cattle, how much exercise they get, the purity of their water..

Or I can just buy a great cut of beef and prepare it with practiced skill and care.

Which would be the more toothsome steak? I bet few could tell.

Also, for your enjoyment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond#Sweet_and_bitter_almonds

Ahu

[ Edited by: KuKuAhu 2007-10-08 15:58 ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horchata

Similar roots, but orgeat is not "french horchata" anymore than black bean dip is "mexican hummus".

Both started as barley waters, and actually came from the Spanish "orxata".

Ahu

On 2007-10-08 14:51, KuKuAhu wrote:
While agree to some extent, and can certainly admire the effort, I am considering a level of diminishing returns here that out weighs the process involved. To make better orgeat for less money and without chemicals is one thing... but to swear all but the 19th century from scratch version to be a total waste is innacurate and ignores 70 years of bartending.

I agree, to a point. For me, I'm still in the process of learning what orgeat can taste like, and trying to taste it in its finest form. Once I know that taste I can then, and only then, assess what is acceptable.

To fellow and extend your comment about raising cattle to have a steak, why bother when you can go to McDonald's? Otherwise you're wasting 40 years of meat experience. :) There is something to be said for doing things right.

In the end, I still have to make a batch of "perfect" orgeat. And then compare it to 2 others. And then compare Mai Tais made with each. To do anything less would simply be accepting it without knowing it. Given how much I love almonds and Mai Tais and these experiments I feel that such simple acceptance would be wrong.

To fellow and extend your comment about raising cattle to have a steak, why bother when you can go to McDonald's? Otherwise you're wasting 40 years of meat experience. :) There is something to be said for doing things right.

Or I can just buy a great cut of beef and prepare it with practiced skill and care.

Forgive me for pulling my own quote off of one page back, but I felt I covered this analogy well enough.

I suppose I might have clarified that with "bartending history" so as not to have it assumed to mean "bartending experience" which probably has little bearing on the content of commercial brands of orgeat.

There's this one from a page ago too:

It pays to make the pure form from the ground up (pun intended) with almonds.. this gives you the palate and perspective of extremes, but to me it pays to seek the useful balance in between.

So I agree with you. I just think it wrong to prescribe the purisms as 100% truth when we are discussing 1940s American bartending.

If you are all out of milk on your french farm because you had to make it all into cheese to avoid spoilage (due to your lack of refrigeration), then by all means make orgeat as a purist.

If you just want to make better orgeat for your bar to make excellent mai tais.. well, this is a different matter altogether.

You may wish to use barley though. I not sure I have seen a 1940s Trader Vic recipe book that specifically describes this historical French brand as an almond based orgeat.

-grin-

Shall we all milk barley then?

Ahu

Fraternal Order of Moai

[ Edited by: KuKuAhu 2007-10-08 16:12 ]

On 2007-10-08 16:12, KuKuAhu wrote:
Shall we all milk barley then?

Ah, crap, now I have to go find some organic barley... :)

It's been interesting reading this thread. I actually make my own almond milk for use at home as I do not like the store bought versions and I prefer it to soy milk for many uses. I use a vitamix (which pulverizes the almonds) and gives the milk a strong almond flavor. The resulant milk could pass for cow's milk by look.

I decided to try home made orgeat yesterday when I was in the kitchen making up some Voodoo Priestess syrup.

The resultant orgeat is very opaque & white. The mai tais I made from it last night didn't look right , but I need to try again tonight as I made a mistake when making them. They were tasty but didn't have the characteristic look. I'll try again tonight, but fear that the orgeat may be too creamy/white and may continue to change the color of the maitais too much. If so, I'll have to use much less almond milk next time in the orgeat...

: (
No mistakes tonight. The drink is still to limey according to hubby (despite 1 oz instead of 11/2 oz) and I know it could be the limes

But it's still too milky looking, not amber like a good mai tai should look. But rather it looks like a milky lemonade Hmm...Maybe if I gently heat the orgeat (I didn't, I dissolved the sugar in the almond milk in my high speed blender, which does warm it, but prob didn't heat it enough). I'm bummed, the orgeat is tasty, but just too milky.

On 2007-10-08 19:54, Sgirl wrote:
I'm bummed, the orgeat is tasty, but just too milky.

How do you filter the almonds out of the milk? If you do that efficiently then your layers will be easier to deal with.

I wonder if you are allowing the batch to sit long enough to stratify into its layers. There should be a frothy layer that forms on top and a sedimentary layer on the bottom. You want the biggest layer that is in the middle, so you need to remove the frothy layer; or siphon the good layer out, leaving the top and bottom layers behind.

The frothy layer seems to contribute most to making drinks cloudy. The orgeat should still be opaque and milky, but in the quantities used in drinks it should not cloud it up to any significant degree.

That VitaMix of yours sounds interesting. Are your almonds moist when you grind them? Grinding them dry will make a lot more fine dust a lot of which will find its way into the frothy layer.

I've been thinking about picking up one of these things...


...from BB&B for $49.99 less 20%.

The coarsest disc (shown on the box) seems like it would be good for grinding almonds into the right size of nuggetrine without producing much that was excessively small. That combines with the filter bags that Scottes located seems like it might be a winning combination.

Hmm, maybe the problem is the vitamix is too efficient at emulsifying. It is an expensive highspeed blender, more info here http://www.vitamix.com

After I make & strain the almond milk I only get two layers. Foam and milk. I did remove the foamy layer, but the rest is very rich and milky. There are still some tiny solids in the milk but they don't separate even after 3-4 days (which is how long the plain almond milk lasts in my fridge w/o fermenting). I only know there are solids cuz if I freeze some they separate or if I use it in a hot beverage a tiny film of particles forms on top.

I'm going to try using 1/8 oz next time in my mai tai rather than 1/4 and see if that works better. Next time I make it I may try the Ahu recipe and use much less of the rich milk so the oregeat is cloudy but not milky.

Okay, so I just reread the thread (not for the first time) and am guessing that it is the suspended particles that is the problem

On 2007-06-25 09:10, The Gnomon wrote:
Important – Make sure the store-bought almond milk has had a chance for its almond residue to settle back down to the bottom of the carton before using.

If you do disturb it, and if you don't then remove it from the milk, it will remain suspended in your orgeat for a long time before it finally settles to the bottom. That will cause all of your drinks to become very cloudy. They'll taste fine, but they'll be cloudy and will stratify in the drink if it's allowed to sit for any length of time.

Clearly my home made almond milk does have more particles in it than store bought. I just checked my orgeat and it does have some particles settling to the bottom. I'm going to leave it undisturbed for aother day or two and see if more particles will settle out. So far the liquid above still looks like cow's milk, but I will keep my fingers crossed, that eventually they will all be at the bottom and I can salvage it and make a proper mai tai.

Oh and to answer your question, I've found the best way to filter the almond milk in one step is to use a thin lint free linen cloth (the kind you use to dry wine glasses). It works like a cheese cloth but is much sturdier and stands up to strong squuezing/milking. I rinse the towel after the milking and then throw it it the wash. Maybe I'll try one of those nylon bags Scottes found and see if it's any easier.

My almonds are wet when I start since I actually blanche them myself and then throw them in whole to the VitaMix with water. Still get lots of foam, which is easy to remove. If my orgeat separates I'll have to experiment with how long it takes to separate in the future.

[ Edited by: Sgirl 2007-10-09 11:13 ]

On 2007-10-09 10:47, Sgirl wrote:
Clearly my home made almond milk does have more particles in it than store bought. I just checked my orgeat and it does have some particles settling to the bottom. I'm going to leave it undisturbed for aother day or two and see if more particles will settle out. So far the liquid above still looks like cow's milk, but I will keep my fingers crossed, that eventually they will all be at the bottom and I can salvage it and make a proper mai tai.

That could be the answer. You have so many fine particles suspended in the milk that it takes a lot longer to layer out than you can wait for before the milk goes bad. I rarely wait more than a day for it to layer before getting on with adding the sugar, rose and orange flower waters, and rum. At that point, it keeps pretty well. I keep mine at room temperature and use it up before it goes bad (so I don't know it's actual shelf life at room temp). Any layering after that I just remove as needed.

My almonds are wet when I start since I actually blanche them myself and then throw them in whole to the VitaMix with water. Still get lots of foam, which is easy to remove. If my orgeat separates I'll have to experiment with how long it takes to separate in the future.

If I get one of thoise grinders, I think I will start blanching my own almonds again instead of being lazy and using pre-blanched slivered almonds. As for your thick milk. Braggart! I'm envious.

On 2007-10-08 14:51, KuKuAhu wrote:
And actually, horchata and orgeat have little to do with one another outside of being similar grain emulsions.

I think I mentioned something to that effect a couple of months ago or so.

Orge is French for barley. Orgeat was barely water before it became almond water (presumably sometime after the crusades... around the time marzipan was invented). For instance, "barley water" in Italian is "orzata". Italian for almond is "mandorla", and Spanish for almond is "almendra".

Yep. Orgeat and horchata don't have to do with the almond, but rather the milk product.

Also, for your enjoyment...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almond#Sweet_and_bitter_almonds

...

On 2007-10-08 15:13, KuKuAhu wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horchata

Similar roots, but orgeat is not "french horchata" anymore than black bean dip is "mexican hummus".

Both started as barley waters, and actually came from the Spanish "orxata".

There is a strong etymological belief that orxata came from ordiata, but apparently it's not conclusive. I don't know why it's not known for sure.

I've seen both of these Wikipedia entries many times in the past. Thanks for reminding me. That's it. "Hordeata" is the Latin I was thinking of "made with barley".

The drink has its origin (if I recall correctly—I was there :) ) in ancient Egypt where it was made with chufa (tiger nut) and brought to Spain by the Arabs. I'll have to go back and dig up my research one of these days (in some box in a 10 x 15 self-storage bin). I always thought it was amusing that "barley milk" was made out of almonds, or rice, or a host of other things including chufa, which I believe may have been the ancient original.

Spelling! Sheesh!

[ Edited by: The Gnomon 2007-10-10 06:25 ]

On 2007-10-09 11:59, The Gnomon wrote:
If I get one of thoise grinders, I think I will start blanching my own almonds again instead of being lazy and using pre-blanched slivered almonds. As for your thick milk. Braggart! I'm envious.

Really? It does make great almond milk, but seems a pain for orgeat. Hopefully I figure out how to get separation. Anyhoo, it's not me, it's the blender! I invested in it as a bday present to myself last Spring when I changed my diet dramatically. I make "ice cream" with frozen fruit & soy or almond milk, smoothies (sometimes with green veggies in them) and almond or cashew milk. I use it alot so it was worth it. I don't think I'd buy it just to make almond milk. But Jack Lalane makes a cheaper version of a high speed blender I've heard works well and goes on sale on JC Penney's periodically.

I think it's worth it to blanch your own almonds. I tried not doing it once and the almond milk was much less flavorful. It only takes me about 10 min to skin a cup of almonds. It's actually pretty relaxing/meditative, esp with good music on. Oh, the other good thing about the high speed blender is you can use less almonds and more water (3 cups water to 1 cup almonds) so over the long term it could actually save money if you make gallons and gallons of almond milk. And there is no soaking time needed. Whir it up, strain/milk it and you're done, at least with the almond milk portion. We'll see how much time it adds to wait for separation...

On 2007-10-09 23:34, Sgirl wrote:
I think it's worth it to blanch your own almonds. I tried not doing it once and the almond milk was much less flavorful. It only takes me about 10 min to skin a cup of almonds. It's actually pretty relaxing/meditative, esp with good music on. Oh, the other good thing about the high speed blender is you can use less almonds and more water (3 cups water to 1 cup almonds) so over the long term it could actually save money if you make gallons and gallons of almond milk. And there is no soaking time needed. Whir it up, strain/milk it and you're done, at least with the almond milk portion. We'll see how much time it adds to wait for separation...

So you grind your almonds up in the water, not before adding the water.

Clearly fresh almonds that you blanch yourself are going to have better flavor than anything that has had a chance to dry out at all. The protective husks hold all of that in. Next best are whole blanched almonds. Next after that are blanched slivered almonds, because they have more exposed surfaces to dry out before you can use them. Pre-ground blanched almonds are probably worthless for making orgeat.

Because store-bought almond milk contains enough preservatives for it to be kept unrefrigerated until opened, it can sit for a l-o-n-g time on the shelf. When that happens there is a sedimentary residue that builds up on the bottom of the carton. It's kind of a slimy looking muck. But its just ultra fine almond particles that were left suspended in the milk when it was packaged. I think you're experiencing a similar thing. That's your trade-off for making almost instant milk—the long wait for the ultra fine particles to settle.

Maybe you can eliminate a lot of those by pouring the otherwise finished batch through an extra large coffee filter. The filter paper might be able to capture the remaining micro nuggetrines. With the equipment I'm using now, my finest particles to make it through my cheesecloth stage just clog up the filter paper. Maybe yours is pre-filtered enough so that it won't. Anyway, that stuff is the main culprit in clouding up a drink. The manufacturers of store-bought almond milk evidently don't take it to that level. Otherwise, theirs wouldn't accumulate so much almond sludge at the bottom.

Ya know, Gnomon, when doing your method, why not pre-filter the sediment out?

Crush/chop/grind the almonds, then filter this by placing it in cheesecloth/nylon-mesh-bag and rinsing some water over it. Then cover with water and let sit overnight and proceed as normal.

This should rinse out out the ultra-fine particles that you have to let settle. This should speed things up considerably.

On 2007-10-10 10:14, Scottes wrote:
Ya know, Gnomon, when doing your method, why not pre-filter the sediment out?

Crush/chop/grind the almonds, then filter this by placing it in cheesecloth/nylon-mesh-bag and rinsing some water over it. Then cover with water and let sit overnight and proceed as normal.

This should rinse out out the ultra-fine particles that you have to let settle. This should speed things up considerably.

Hmmm. That's an interesting idea. Get rid of the extra fine and ultra fine particles before the nuggetrines get milked. It's so crazy it just might work!

Unfortunately for Sgirl, the way she makes hers the ultra fine particles are created simultaneously with the milk, so they will have to be filtered out after the fact.

As for your suggestion, though, typically the cleansing bath is done with tap water and the milk is extracted into purified water. But if it means getting rid of those pesky microparticles, another post-grinding rinse through a filter bag could be done using a gallon of bottled spring water (for about a buck) and then the remaining wet nuggetrines could be put into containers for overnight soaking in purified water.

Sounds good. This process should be done as quickly as possible so as to have the nuggetrines safely in their milking stations before the flow of milk has had a chance to get much of a start. You gave me another thought. Since I have not yet sent away for my filter bags, I don't know how well this would work, but it seems like it should.

After putting the nuggetrines into the filter bags and giving them their microparticle rinse, put the nuggetrines still in their nylon filter bag into the milking container (kinda like a trash can liner) so that when you take them out the next day, you don't have to dump, pour, or scoop anything. You just lift the bag up out of the milk, let it drain, and then wring the filter bag until the mash is as dry as it's gonna get. This is sounding more appealing by the minute. Thanks for the idea.

Just to be clear...

So far I have purchased almonds as blanched and slivered. First I rinse them, then grind, then soak, then squeeze, wait for the settling to occur, and separate.

I'm suggesting to grind first, rinse them to get rid of dirt and tiny particles that would cause sediment, grind, soak, squeeze, skip the settling because there's nothing to settle, and now the separation process is 2 layers (foam & orgeat), not 3 (foam, orgeat, sediment).

Your idea of keeping it all in the bag might make it difficult, since I've found it very inefficient to hand-squeeze more than a fistful at a time.

On 2007-10-10 13:48, Scottes wrote:
I'm suggesting to grind first, rinse them to get rid of dirt and tiny particles that would cause sediment, grind, soak, squeeze, skip the settling because there's nothing to settle, and now the separation process is 2 layers (foam & orgeat), not 3 (foam, orgeat, sediment).

I can't imagine ever grinding before washing the dirt off. Grinding it first will expose the dirt to much more surface area, the majority of which is oilier and easier for dirt to stick. Washing it after grinding would mean washing it a lot longer. If you're going to start out by grinding, I wouldn't bother washing at all.

Your idea of keeping it all in the bag might make it difficult, since I've found it very inefficient to hand-squeeze more than a fistful at a time.

Hmm. OK, then here's another possibility. I've been planning on picking up one of these things to dry off the almonds after their initial bath, instead of hand drying with a small fan.

I don't know how efficiently the filter bags drain, but if they drain pretty well, especially in the absence of microparticles, instead of squeezing the rest of the milk out, maybe we could use the salad spinner to throw the milk out with centrifugal force. Do you think the filter bag with the mash will fit down inside one of these spinners?

Right now I am leaning toward going back to blanching my own almonds to get maximum flavor. Doing so also eliminates the need to wash off any dirt. As soon as they're blanched they're ready to roll. But I'm quite sure I'll use slivered almonds often enough.

In that case, I'd wash off the dirt in a tap water bath, drain in a colander, spin the almonds in the salad spinner to remove the excess tap water, then grind them. Put the nuggetrines in the filter bag, put the filter bag in the colander, and slowly pour a gallon (maybe two) of bottled spring water over it all to remove the microparticles. I'd put it all back into the spinner to get as much of the water containing microparticles out of the mash. Then I'd put the filter bag with the nuggetrines inside (sans microparticles) into a container (hopefully about the size of the filter bag), pour in purified water to soak the nuggetrines, cover, and let sit overnight (or longer). When it's time to filter out the mash, I'd lift the bag out of the milk and hang it over the container so that it could drain for a while. When it had drained that way long enough, I'd put the filter bag back into the salad spinner and spin out the milk that was trapped among the nuggetrines. Does this sound viable?

The theory seems sound, but until I get the salad spinner and the filter bags, I won't have firsthand knowledge on those aspects. The rest of the process is sound.

As for Sgirl's method, its greatest virtue is making almond milk in a matter of seconds (or minutes if you include the blanching of the almonds). Her challenge is merely a filtering issue, but a formidable filtering issue at that because her VitaMix probably creates more ultra fine microparticles than any other method outside of making almond butter.

I think we're getting close to solving the almond milk problem. Once that is out of the way, making orgeat is a breeze.

On 2007-10-11 06:45, The Gnomon wrote:
I can't imagine ever grinding before washing the dirt off.

Yep, you are very most likely correct. So I'd rinse the dirt, crush, rinse out the micro-particles, and milk.

Hmm. OK, then here's another possibility. I've been planning on picking up one of these things to dry off the almonds after their initial bath, instead of hand drying with a small fan.
Next time (tonight), I will simply pat them dry with paper towels and then chop them in the processor. A salad spinner, for $10, is probably even easier. But I just don't think that a full drying will help, and would not do anything more than either patting or spinning.

I don't know how efficiently the filter bags drain, but if they drain pretty well,
They're efficient, but I think the mash still needs a serious squeezing to get the best - and most - liquid out of the mash.

maybe we could use the salad spinner to throw the milk out with centrifugal force. Do you think the filter bag with the mash will fit down inside one of these spinners?
If I remember correctly, don't these spinners have a "central drum" like a washing machine? If so, the bag would be difficult. If the bowl is wide open with no obstructions then the bags would fit very easily.

But I'd still squeeze.

Right now I am leaning toward going back to blanching my own almonds to get maximum flavor.
Yep. I got some non-organic blanched slivers at the local StupidMarket and I'm not happy. I'll be stopping at Trader Joe's for some organic whole almonds tonight, and will blanch and peel.

Note to others - we're crazy, and blanching your own whole almonds is on the edge of sanity. But it is one of the steps that ensures the highest possible quality in the final product.

Doing so also eliminates the need to wash off any dirt. As soon as they're blanched they're ready to roll.
Excellent point.

In that case, I'd... Does this sound viable?
An excellent, slightly crazy, highly analytic, mildly obsessive plan.

And I can't wait to try it myself. :)

But I'm still for squeezing since I won't think a salad spinner will provide the speed necessary to generate sufficient centrifugal force.

As for Sgirl's method, its greatest virtue is making almond milk in a matter of seconds (or minutes if you include the blanching of the almonds). Her challenge is merely a filtering issue, but a formidable filtering issue at that because her VitaMix probably creates more ultra fine microparticles than any other method outside of making almond butter.
I have to agree. If I did it the Vitamix way I'd want a centrifuge capable of spinning 10 pounds, or a filter fine enough to strain the particles but large enough to not get glogged by the emulsion. That would be tough to find I think.

When we get this all down we will have to make a separate, condensed post of just the instructions.

"Ultimate Orgeat - A Collaborative Recipe"

I will most certainly blog it for sure.

I blanched 2 pounds of raw almonds last night, and watched Gordon Ramsay while I peeled them.

I did not blanch them long enough and as a result it was slightly difficult to remove the skins. Another 15 seconds would have done it, but there were some bits of skin here and there and it should have been easier.

My recommendation would be to get a big pot of water boiling, throw in the almonds and stir and agitate for exactly 1 minute, then quickly strain through a colander and shock with plenty of cold water.

Given how long it took to peel them I was getting irritated and started wondering if it was worth it. Then I popped a couple in my mouth. Wow! There is most certainly a very noticeable difference between fresh-blanched whole almonds and pre-blanched slivers. Very noticeable. I am very curious as to how the finished product will turn out, which I'll find out tonight.

I'll admit to having only Torani, Vics, and Fees sitting on my shelf for a long time.

This is totally about to change, as last night I stopped by Teardrop lounge. The bartenders there make their own Orgeat and it was an unbelievably outstanding product, light and refreshing, sweet and lightly almond flavored, it was really top notch stuff.

I'll have to bribe their recipe out of them somehow, possibly with booze.

On 2007-10-12 13:19, Trader Tiki wrote:
I'll have to bribe their recipe out of them somehow, possibly with booze.

That would be quite interesting!