Proper Sweet Vermouth For Tiki Drinks?

I've been leafing around Potions of the Caribbean for something to drink and I've hit a snag on page 186 with Trader Vic's Tortuga. The drinks sounds quite interesting, and with Hamilton 151 and Lost Spirits Cuban Inspired on hand, now seems like the perfect time to try it, but that ounce of Italian vermouth is giving me trouble. Was Vic pouring a very old style vermouth like punt e mes or carpano antica or a sweeter, more recent style of Italian vermouth, or an oddball like Noilly Prat Rouge, based on white whine with caramel added for color? Can anyone confirm what brand of sweet vermouth was originally used in the drink?

Honestly for the average person I think Martini brand vermouth does the job well. It's a good price point and you don't have to be too familiar/elite about it vermouth in general, imo.

Well my goto Vermouth is "Dolin Sweet Rouge Vermouth"
it is what I use for a Manhattan and other classic cocktails that call for sweet Vermouth
price wise it is in the middle & worth every penny.

http://www.hitimewine.net/DOLIN-SWEET-VERMOUTH-750.html

But you will loose the premium flavor in a Tiki cocktail once it mixes with lime etc.
so a basic less expensive Vermouth should do just fine for that use, like Martini & Rossi or Cinzano Rosso

"Carpano Antica Formula" is the original & high end option for a Vermouth, but would be wasted in Tiki Cocktails.
FYI for folks not used to having Vermouth in their home bars, once open, always refrigerate
& remember it has a short shelf life, much like wine.

[ Edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2015-02-07 22:49 ]

On 2015-02-07 14:21, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
FYI for folks not used to having Vermouth in their home bars, once open, always refrigerate

Uh oh...

On 2015-02-07 14:22, kkocka wrote:

On 2015-02-07 14:21, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
FYI for folks not used to having Vermouth in their home bars, once open, always refrigerate

Uh oh...

Is this why your Manhattans taste funky :)

You would think the lower alcohol content would be a warning sign...

Anyway, it really doesn't matter what brand you use for one very specific reason. The odds of anyone here knowing specific brands used at the bar when the recipe was formulated is unlikely. Whatever tastes good to you, go with that.

On 2015-02-07 14:30, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
Is this why your Manhattans taste funky :)

Made a few Scofflaw's a few weeks ago (after it had been open for weeks or maybe months) and it tasted fine. I guess I'll do a little taste striaght up and see what is going on. Either way, its a very affordable thing to repurchase, but thanks for the head's up because I had zero clue.

wizzard419, yes that is a problem unless you can talk to an old time bartender who remembers the exact brands
the good news is many of those brands are still available.

But if you look in many vintage cocktail books, they only designate Italian or French Vermouth and not a brand name
most of the time.

Noilly Prat Vermouth from France was a popular brand in Bars from the 30s to the 70s
in the 1960s they introduced an American formulation geared to American tastes (not yellow of color & less floral tasting)
because of the popularity of the Martini then (Thanks Mr. Bond!) this American version was phased out in 2009
and today's version is what Europe has had for many decades now.

kkocka, keep that old bottle of Vermouth & compare it to a new bottle
to see the difference in taste, when not stored right.

You can still drink it, but it is like drinking wine that is old & vinegary
especially true with Sweet Vermouth.

Most cocktail recipes for collections are supposed to be written brand agnostic, if they start calling out specific spirits/mixers then you are reading an ad/serving suggestion for a product. Since not all brands are sold in all locations, it would be a dick move to call out a specific product the end user has to search for or assume they are settling when they use a different brand.

On 2015-02-08 02:08, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
Noilly Prat Vermouth from France was a popular brand in Bars from the 30s to the 70s
in the 1960s they introduced an American formulation geared to American tastes (not yellow of color & less floral tasting)
because of the popularity of the Martini then (Thanks Mr. Bond!) this American version was phased out in 2009
and today's version is what Europe has had for many decades now.

Actually the American market stuff is still available. "French Vermouth" was what it went by originally; in this country we got the formula specifically geared toward our martini fetish, while the rest of the world got the original product under the same name. After they started putting the original product into the "French Vermouth" bottles destined for US shores, the martini geared formula was rebranded as "Extra Dry". You can get all three here now, but the extra dry (American) is still the most popular, and I've only seen the original stuff at specialty wine shops.

In any case, I think I'll be breaking out my Noilly Prat Rouge for the Tortuga.

[ Edited by: PalmtreePat 2015-02-08 21:41 ]

I stick to french vermouth for dry/white, italian vermouth for sweet/red.

I'd say the more drink ingredients you have, the cheaper y'all can go on the vermouth. Quality (and indeed refrigeration) matters with say, a Manhattan, Martini, etc

ATP, thanks- I never knew to refrigerate sweet vermouth- makes sense, though.

While lots of us think that vermouth can be an afterthought, there are some really great vermouths out there. There's a big price point difference between the "cheaper" ones and the "craft" vermouths. A local restaurant here in SD makes their own, and it really blew me away. I've enjoyed a few cocktails of their sweet vermouth on the rocks, and it really blew me away- shockingly so. Really complex and tasty stuff. Using it in a rum drink would really be way different than a cheapo version.

I did some research, and found a lot of recipes. It obviously takes some time, but I found all the ingredients and am going to start making this one. Anyone else in? Has anyone else had a really great vermouth?

http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/18/mixologist-jack-bevan-lessons-from-the-potions-master-4624737/

KillDevil, I'd say that more ingredients may hide some of your ingredients, depends on what you're making and how you're making it! All that being said, I've got cheap vermouth at the home bar. Ha.

As mentioned previously, you can't beat Antica Carpano. Vya also makes a pretty interesting vermouth. A lot of wine manufacturers are now offering vermouths.