Ebay question re: refunds

I've been selling all of my old vinyl records on Ebay in lots of about 10. I use special boxes made for shipping vinyl and have been sending them Media Mail without insurance. One of my buyers emailed me saying that he never received the records I shipped on 11/19. I told him if he didn't receive them within another week I'd refund him the cost minus the shipping (it was only $6.00). Is this reasonable? Too reasonable? Should I refund the shipping as well? I've been selling on Ebay since May and this has never happened before.

:drink:

I would vote to refund all the customer's costs. He did not receive any product in this scenario, so should be out no money.

Bummer. The only thing worse than warped vinyl is lost vinyl.

How did the buyer pay, Paypal or check/MO. If the buyer paid check or money order and didn't opt to get insurance then the risk of loss is their's.

Paypal is quite different. if you read the paypal user agreement is says that all purchases should have a tracking number. If a buyer does not recieve an item and he complains to Paypal you will be required to supply a tracking number or refund the purchase price.

Media mail can take a long time (up to 4 weeks or more), especially during this time of year. I have bought and sold lots of magazines on Ebay, and often used media mail. I would ask the buyer to wait at least 4 weeks, perhaps 6.

If they never arrive, you should stick to your word and do as you told him and refund the money minus shipping.

However, for future items you may want to state beforehand a policy on non-insured shipments. I have bought a lot of items from sellers who state that if insurance is not purchased the buyer takes the risk. This is usually fine with me as a buyer. I have only had one problem related to shipping - it was water damaged but it was insured.

This is a tough call.

Technically, if the buyer did not opt for insurance, the buyer takes the risk, and the seller would not be liable. The thing is, is that some sellers do give in to claims from buyers for fear of receiving a negative on their feedback, thus refunding the buyers money.

Personally, I NEVER send any item out I sell without Delivery Confirmation. It is paid for by the buyer (only 45/55 cents, price depending on if you use media, parcel or priority) and is automatically added to the cost of the shipping quote I give. This gives some peace of mind as to delivery, but does not cover for damage or loss. That is where the Insurance comes in. Of course, insurance is always an optional, added fee (starting at $1.30 and up), but does cover the actual cost of the item if it were lost or damaged by the postal service, and is paid for by the buyer.

If you don't want to haggle over this buyers claim and want to keep clear of a negative on your feedback, you may want to consider giving the person their money, either whole or in part, and from now on add Delivery Confirmation to all outgoing shipments, and keep insurance as a buyers option.

If you don't refund the buyer, you are still not technically liable (although you have no actual proof for THEM that you actually sent the package out).

That is why this can be a tough call.

Oh, and if you can remember, put a second copy of the address label INSIDE your packages too, since labels can rip off during transit. When the post office has a package in transit that has no label on it, then it is sent to another department (The Recovery Center) that actually opens up your package to determine either it's destination or origination. If you don't have any info inside, then The Recovery Unit determines if the price is above or below $10. If under $10, the item is trashed..literally. If it is over $10, then it is then put up for Postal auction, which happens around the U.S. anywhere between 4 to 8 times a year. For those wondering where & when you can check http://www.usps.com/auctions . Ok, I gave up one of my (sort of) secret place, but oh well...

Back to the program, if it were me: bite the bullet, refund the money (by money order), after at least 4 weeks have gone by like TheJab mentioned, and include Delivery Confirmation on all future sales with insurance as the added option and a disclaimer if insurance is not taken.

Just my 2 coconuts worth.

Enter The SoCal Hoity Toity Schedule

[ Edited by: SugarCaddyDaddy on 2003-12-09 15:23 ]

If it were me, I personally wouldn't send the items media mail. It's definitely NOT worth it to me! I've had too many sellers that try to "save a buck" and send items media mail when it only cost an additional $1 or so to send it regular or Priority Mail. I'd much rather pay the additional funds and have the item sent Priority and know it will get there in a few days compared to agonizing over Media Mail and wondering when the parcel will arrive.

To sum up, in the future I would ask your buyers how they want the item shipped. Media mail, Priority, etc. This will save quite a bit of aggrivation on the buyers part. Last year I paid $300 for an item, the seller tried to "save a buck" sent it Media Mail and it took a month to receive. Needless to say I was extremely unhappy and disappointed that the seller shipped it the slowest possible when I paid within an hour of the auctions close! I gladly would have paid additional funds for shipping if he had offered!

I used to send everything UPS but people were always bitching about the high price of shipping. So I started using Media Mail and had no problems until now. I didn't realize Media Mail could take a number of weeks. In the past it's always been 5-7 days. I haven't heard back from the buyer yet regarding my suggestion. Thanks everyone for your advice.

:drink:

I sell 100-200 items a week online and about 1/3 of the items ship media mail. I have only had a handful of problems over the past four years. The first thing I would do would be to check the buyer's feedback. If they have a large number of feedbacks with no negatives, I would tend to believe them. If they have negatives that relate to your problem, I would hesitate to refund their money.

Anyway, my 2 cents woth.

TikiPug

On 2003-12-09 17:19, Juno wrote:
I didn't realize Media Mail could take a number of weeks. In the past it's always been 5-7 days.

I opt for media mail to save on the shipping and it usually arrives pretty quickly but they can get hung up and take longer too. So wait a little longer to see if it shows up.

I agree, wait a little longer. Every time I have had a customer say their item hasn't shown up and must be lost, it usually arrives the next day. Murphy's Law! Ask them to hold on another couple weeks, then talk about a refund.

I have shipped over 2000 books albums and videos by media mail, lost maybe 10, damaged about 4. It is as fast as First CLass when delivery is in the west, east coast can take 2 weeks or more. I use media mail because most items shipp for $1.42 or $1.84. I charge $3.00 shipping/handling, additional profit. It is harder to juice the buyer when you are shipping First Class or Priority.

Delivery confirmation is FREE when you use the USPS site to print a Priority Mail label. You dont have to buy electronic postage, just print the label off thier site, its free. LInk is below

https://sss-web.usps.com/ds/jsps/sp_getAddresses.jsp

*On 2003-12-10 22:47, jonboy wrote:*I use media mail because most items shipp for $1.42 or $1.84. I charge $3.00 shipping/handling, additional profit. It is harder to juice the buyer when you are shipping First Class or Priority.

What makes you want to "juice the buyer"? I think charging a bit more for materials, etc. is justified. For example. if I'm shipping a magazine I may charge $2 flat when media mail is $1.44, but I don't feel a need to charge $1.50 extra.

Its a matter of squeezing maximum profit out of transactions. Buyers are generally not stupid. By transferring cost from purchase price to "shipping" it avoids ebay commissions. 2000 books, 1.50 extra per transaction is 150 dollars in my pocket.
Don't start feeling sorry for eBay, they get revenge with paypal (they own Paypal). A 5 dollar transaction costs 10% in transaction fees. I dont even want to caclulate how much I have paid them!!!

Keep in mind, for many of us eBay puts food on the table. I am all for truth fairness and the American way and all that. But if I can squeeze profit I will!!!

On 2003-12-10 22:47, jonboy wrote:
I have shipped over 2000 books albums and videos by media mail, lost maybe 10, damaged about 4. It is as fast as First CLass when delivery is in the west, east coast can take 2 weeks or more. I use media mail because most items shipp for $1.42 or $1.84. I charge $3.00 shipping/handling, additional profit. It is harder to juice the buyer when you are shipping First Class or Priority.

Nothing personal Jon, but as someone who goes out of my way to mention in my Ebay auctions that buyers are paying actual cost of shipping, I feel that adding extra profit into a shipping fee is kind of lame. Conversely, when I buy things, I am acutely aware of sellers who purposely jack up the shipping fee to make a buck, and I will not patronize them.

Back to the topic at large:
I always give my buyers options. If they want it fast, I ship Priority, and charge appropriately. If they want to save, I'll offer media mail and charge less. Insurance, Delivery Confirmation... up to the customer with the charge calculated as needed... I also try to reuse or recycle boxes and foam peanuts to save my customers more money, and also to help the environment!

Anyway, given all of this, if the customer opts out of insurance... it's not my problem if the package never arrives, although of course I do feel bad about it and I do everything I can to ship securely. It has not happened much, however and I have conducted about 400 Ebay auctions (as a seller, similar number as buyer) over about 6 years.