That's just wrong! The un-Tiki thread:

amen and mahalo...YES it is good to keep it pure...NO it is BAD to be so OBSCURE that no CIVILIANS GET what you are into...adapt or DIE. The bad shall fall into the HANDS of the BAD & the CREAM will RISE to the top...

I, too, have been following these postings since they started, and have had similar experiences of evolving from my pre-educated understanding of what Tiki is. My first "tiki parties" were decorated with flamingos, parrots, thatching, tikis, leis, and exotic flowers. I soon became a member of Tiki Central, and started reading about the Tiki style and started adapting my decor to be more in tune with the Hawaiian / Polynesian / Tiki style and less Caribbean. Currently, I have a tendency to mix more Hawaiian with my Tiki, but believe I have eliminated most "Caribbean Island" influences. (I still listen to JB and steel drum music, but do not play it during my parties.) There are now 14 tikis in my backyard, large ones and small ones, adorning my tiki hut and tiki bar. (The 8 flamingos come out at Christmas to pull Santa's sleigh.)

I wonder about the evolution of Tiki in the 50's and 60's. The BOT is a wonderful study on Tiki as it was in its heyday. But Tiki wasn't born a style in 1951, or 1956, or even 1963. It evolved over time to incorporate all the things we seem to appreciated on Tiki Central. Saying that Witco is pure Tiki is questionable to me, as I believe Witco wasn't even around in the early 50's, but introduced and accepted to be Tiki later on, and is accepted as pure Tiki nowadays.

Is Tiki evolving with the new generation... you and me? Are we allowing computer generated art prints to be accepted as Tiki while pure Tiki wall art was near-naked wahines painted on black velvet?

I love and appreciate pure Tiki as we see in BOT. But are we as the new generation of "those who appreciate Tiki" allowing the evolution of Tiki to take its course as new objects, styles and methods are being created? At what year do we draw the fine line separating pure Tiki with anything new?

• Myke

By the way, go to ANY subculture bulletin board or blog and you will find a parallel discussion.

There are even terminologies for some of them.

Gother than Thou.
RINO/DINO (Republican/Democrat In Name Only)
And I am sure there are others.

And since I have seen it before, I just come with the understanding that no matter what culture I am in, I won't be able to please everyone's expectations in that culture, nor will everyone meet my expectations.

There is clearly classic tiki, and some of it is complete crap. And I actually have an appreciation for that. There is modern tiki, and the majority of it is crap while other elements are great in my opinion.

But as we all know, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and yours stinks and I don't want to hear it.

Do I have some stuff in my basement the purists would hate? Yep. I think Archie McPhee's is a wonderful place and I will buy their stuff (Accoutrements for those who don't know the retail/wholesale division) but I do so knowing it is cheap modern stuff that is only designed to celebrate the original tiki era.

Do I have stuff some purists covet? Yep. But I have a long way to go. I have no Witco, but I have a Bosko.

But regardless of whether everyone appreciates what I have or if I ridicule others' opinions on what tiki is, I enjoy collecting the stuff and I honestly have met some cool people through this. I am having fun, in part because I can be a snob about something. :)

/disjointed ramble

NOT TIKI!!

[ Edited by: tikigreg 2006-08-11 07:40 ]

On 2006-08-09 12:23, The Granite Tiki wrote:
I love this thread, it's like the Council of Nicaea. :)

Yeah, that's apt, although I was thinking more along the lines of Mao's Cultural Revolution, except nobody's being hauled away to Tiki re-education camps...:wink:

GROG see no experts chimed in on whether Crazy Al's Ape Fez mug is considered tiki, so howabout this?

[ Edited by: GROG 2006-08-09 19:14 ]

So much of what is or is not tiki depends on the context of the object.

Yes, I agree in general, that brightly painted tiki poles do not quite fit in with most tiki decor. Yet I own two of the poles which existed at the former Honolulu restaurant, which are painted in bright colors. Chances are that the tiki poles once stood in a more native, unpainted form, and the bright colors were only added later. But I never experienced that native look - the first time I visted the Honolulu, those poles were brightly painted, and that is how most people remember them by.

So to me, those poles hold and represent some very good memories, of a treasured tiki place in the DC area. They have a true historic sense, and they oversaw the consumption of tens of thousands of mai-tais over the years. Yet, if someone came into my home, and saw those poles, and had no idea of their history - well, they might conclude that they were the ugliest things on the face of the earth.

There is a difference between the Honolulu poles and some mass-produced brightly colored tiki. But I did want to point out, that firm rules do not always play out, and there are exceptions to every rule..... and just because you can find the exception to a rule, does not mean that the rule is no longer valid.

Vern

Welcome to the "un-tiki" Jersey shore...

http://www.tikibar.com

Nope nada-one tiki in or around the bar!

Since Part **A ** of this thread is about posting garish untiki atrocities, GROG post this:

And, since Part B is about helping to define what is "tiki appropriate" GROG would like to ask a few questions of bigbro. To make sure no one takes this the wrong way, GROG would like say this is sincere and not meant as sarcasm, humor, or any other nature than just sincere questions looking for straightforward answers, so please don't jump on GROG and kick the crap out of GROG because this is not meant in any other spirit than a straightforward question.

Sven,
The general public (not the "tiki-informed") could take the Book of Tiki (BOT), which most TC would consider the tiki bible, and they might look at it for reference as a start for building their own tik bar/ poly-pop paradise. And, you have it extensively illustrated with all sorts of images of tiki bars and restaurants, and etc., which possibly could lead them to believe these are examples of what is appropiately considered "tiki". You have stated that if it says tiki on it, it should have tiki in it. And there have been a number of times where people here have expressed what should be in a tiki bar to qualify it AS a tiki bar, particularly tikis, and not exclusively such items as bambooo, tapa, blowfish, netting, lahala, etc.

So, is this bar from pg24 of BOTconsidered a "tiki bar" JUST because it HAS tikis in it?

Because, if you take the tikis OUT......

.......there seems to be nothing else that really makes this a tiki bar as defined by what most people here on TC conisider a tiki bar.

On the other hand you do have a number of pictures, that at first glance most anybody would think, "Hey, a tiki bar!"
including these two photos from pages 37 and 67, (these are only 2 examples)

which either don't HAVE any tikis or just don't SHOW any of their tikis in these particular photos. The photo of Skipper Kents as well as a number of others have all the accoutrements of a tiki bar other than tikis (granted Skipper Kents name doesn't have tiki ON it so it doesn't have to have tikis IN it), but are they then still considered tiki bars/restaurants?
And, won't most of the public consider them as such since they ARE in the Book of Tiki?

The rest of TC is welcome to chime in as well, but please play nice, I didn't post this to be mean-spirited or humorous.
I'm just hoping this will contribute to helping define the nature of tiki as it pertains to tiki central and the art form as a whole.

[ Edited by: GROG 2006-08-09 20:53 ]

On 2006-08-09 19:08, GROG wrote:
GROG see no experts chimed in on whether Crazy Al's Ape Fez mug is considered tiki, so howabout this?

[ Edited by: GROG 2006-08-09 19:14 ]

Yes. Tiki.

I always thought Bob was derived from the Mortlock mask.

Ape wearing Fez. Not tiki. Just ape wearing fez. (In my very humble opinion.)

Quote:

On 2006-08-09 19:08, GROG wrote:
GROG see no experts chimed in on whether Crazy Al's Ape Fez mug is considered tiki, so howabout this?

---

Yes. Tiki.

Why? Say you knew nothing of the history of this mug and you just stumbled across it at the local party supply store sitting on a shelf next to some brightly colored cardboard cutouts. What about it would make you think TIKI?

This goes back to my earlier post with the Don the Beachcomber, Trader Vic and Steve Crane examples. Why are we so unwilling to call these things un-tiki? Its as if we are saying that these pioneers were infallible. That anything produced in the "good old days" was definitely tiki no mater what.

Aww damn. Couldn't it have been 7FT or 9 FT?
NO it had to be 8FT! Man that's ugly (apologies to anyone who owns one of those) but you should have used that money to get drunk or something. Or, maybe you WERE drunk when you bought it and now have sobered up and know you've been naughty. On the other hand maybe no one could get THAT drunk. In conclusion I pray that anyone considering purchasing this item will pass out before handing over their cash.

Signed, the REAL 8FT

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:42 ]

[ Edited by: Tangaroa 2008-07-11 05:42 ]

I can't believe I read the whole thing!

I really liked the idea of this thread A LOT and I'd really like to see it done again in a parallel thread with the original intent kept in tact: Horrible things labeled as "Tiki". Comments would pertain to the actual posted images. (In my dream thread the comments would be also be insightful and disagreements would be logically argued...Ha-ha-ha!!! Who am I kiddin'!)

SO: Why not a fresh start with the images posted here (the ones posted not for the purpose of makin' a dig at someone) reposted in that thread? Maybe the Lord God of All Things Tiki could start it all over somehow? (Hadda throw in the dig or I'd be accused of suckin' up to what's-his-name.)

Interesting stuff here. :)

Perhaps the conversation is starting to dove-tail somewhat into the forum:
"Are we going underground again?"
http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=20150&forum=1&52

One thing for sure, showing all the photos of artists´ work that post here is going to scare them all away!
If every artist does the same original style tiki statues over and over...well, no reason to make new ideas. I always look at it this way, if the original makers of Tiki art were still doing it how would Tikis have evolved over all the generations and new cultural influences.
Tiki is fun. If you start applying strict rules to it and over dissect it the fun is gone. And Tiki goes underground again.
:drink:

On 2006-08-09 19:19, tikimug wrote:
Welcome to the "un-tiki" Jersey shore...

http://www.tikibar.com

Nope nada-one tiki in or around the bar!

I used to live pretty close to this bar. People were always telling me about the great tiki bar, how much I'd love it, etc. For a lot of folks on the shore, Martell's is synonomous with tiki. This used to drive me nuts! I wouldn't say the Jersey Shore is completely un-tiki, but Martell's definitely makes for an uphill battle!

[ Edited by: Tiki Chris 2006-08-10 04:06 ]

On 2006-08-09 20:48, GROG wrote:

...On the other hand you do have a number of pictures, that at first glance most anybody would think, "Hey, a tiki bar!"...

Grog makes a good point. And that brings up yet another question: If a bar is called a 'Tiki Bar' it should have Tiki(s) in it. Simple enough. What do we call bars without Tikis in them? I know the obvious answer, I am asking about the words we use to define what makes Tiki, well, Tiki. Are we going to wind up with 15 different types of places, that one is a Tiki Bar, that one is a Bamboo Bar, that one is a Neo-Tiki Bar, that one is..... And so on, and so on. Because, if you take that reasoning out about ten more steps you wind up with Tiki Central, Bamboo Central, Neo-Tiki Central, and I am not saying that this argument only applies to Bars, I am just using them as an easy example.

Your thoughts.....

The good (tiki):

The bad (un-tiki):

The ugly (tiki - sorry Bob lovers):

One more time...

The good (tiki):

The bad (Un-tiki. After all, what screams out "TIKI BAR TIME!" more than a Key West sunset?):

The ugly (yes tiki, but apologies bigbro, just not my thing):

The purpose of this was to illustrate that while I don't believe tiki is in the eye of the beholder, beauty certainly is. While we can "agree to disagree" whether something has beauty, for the sake of the focus of tiki central, it's good to at least attempt to agree on what tiki is and is not. I think this thread is a painful, but long-needed exercise. The next time I see a Key West-inspired "tiki" bar pic posted on tiki central, I'll politely point the poster to this thread. That should be all that is necessary to get the message across.

[ Edited by: gatorrob 2006-08-10 07:46 ]

On 2006-08-09 19:14, ikitnrev wrote:
So much of what is or is not tiki depends on the context of the object.

Yes, I agree in general, that brightly painted tiki poles do not quite fit in with most tiki decor. Yet I own two of the poles which existed at the former Honolulu restaurant, which are painted in bright colors. Chances are that the tiki poles once stood in a more native, unpainted form, and the bright colors were only added later. But I never experienced that native look - the first time I visted the Honolulu, those poles were brightly painted, and that is how most people remember them by.

So to me, those poles hold and represent some very good memories, of a treasured tiki place in the DC area. They have a true historic sense, and they oversaw the consumption of tens of thousands of mai-tais over the years. Yet, if someone came into my home, and saw those poles, and had no idea of their history - well, they might conclude that they were the ugliest things on the face of the earth.

There is a difference between the Honolulu poles and some mass-produced brightly colored tiki. But I did want to point out, that firm rules do not always play out, and there are exceptions to every rule..... and just because you can find the exception to a rule, does not mean that the rule is no longer valid.

Vern

I might point out that the whole brightly colored carving thing is from a tried and true classic maker of tiki, Orchids of Hawaii. Like this mask at the Omni Hut, when you see this type of display in an old bar, you can bet it's Orchids. So, it's not exactly un-tiki. It may be vintage tiki, just, kinda ugly.

..sorry... I am having trouble accessing the image I want right now...

On 2006-08-09 20:48, GROG wrote:
So, is this bar from pg24 of BOTconsidered a "tiki bar" JUST because it HAS tikis in it?

Because, if you take the tikis OUT......

.......there seems to be nothing else that really makes this a tiki bar as defined by what most people here on TC conisider a tiki bar.

On the other hand you do have a number of pictures, that at first glance most anybody would think, "Hey, a tiki bar!"
including these two photos from pages 37 and 67, (these are only 2 examples)

which either don't HAVE any tikis or just don't SHOW any of their tikis in these particular photos. The photo of Skipper Kents as well as a number of others have all the accoutrements of a tiki bar other than tikis (granted Skipper Kents name doesn't have tiki ON it so it doesn't have to have tikis IN it), but are they then still considered tiki bars/restaurants?
And, won't most of the public consider them as such since they ARE in the Book of Tiki?

The rest of TC is welcome to chime in as well, but please play nice, I didn't post this to be mean-spirited or humorous.
I'm just hoping this will contribute to helping define the nature of tiki as it pertains to tiki central and the art form as a whole.

[ Edited by: GROG 2006-08-09 20:53 ]

I think you stated the answer. We are talking capital T Tiki, which is not a tiki carving, but, as you say, the accourtement which make up a tiki bar. It may not have an actual tiki, but if it has every other standard item, it's tiki. And vice versa. Plopping a tiki in a Margarita Bar does not transform it into a tiki bar.

Hey, the Imperial Luau Tikis.

I saw one of them at Baswement Kahuna's Kon Tiki Paradise Room.
And then I saw it again, along with its twin at KailuaGeoff's Honolulu Lounge.

BK's photos of his incredible lounge have been lost to TC.
Here is a shot of the original KG one though that he brought to the East Coast Tiki Revival ©2004 Flounder.

And... even though he's holding a ukulele...
Definitely NOT TIKI

[ Edited by: pablus 2006-08-10 07:12 ]

i think grog just show off photoshop skilz. i have wacom, too. ;-P

not tiki:

So lets recap:

tiki

un-tiki

I'm starting to think that un-tiki may be better :)

All hail Tiki Phil--we need to place the center of focus in Picture B in the location of Picture A and it will bring a HARMONIC CONVERGENCE to all things tiki

On 2006-08-10 09:35, TikiPhil wrote:
So lets recap:

tiki

un-tiki

I'm starting to think that un-tiki may be better :)

Then join us at the Mai Kai in October...

Tiki...

Wow what a thread.....some great info and some truly confushing shit......

two thoughts how did the Polonesians feel coming to America and seeing us making a mockery of thier religion and culture.....how would Christians feel going there and seeing a Christ Bar with drinks sold in a Jesus Mug (I have often wondered this)

the other is a bit more troubling I often chat with folks who lurk or sit on the outskirts of the board (much like I did for so long) and they always mention the Purist/Tiki Nazis here......I try to explaine to em that most of the time no one is as anal as they sound when discussing topics like this.....

Traditional Tikiphiles
Mid-Century Modern Tikiphiles
PolyPop Tikiphiles
Nuevo Tikiphiles
Classic Tikiphiles
anyone notice the similarity?

Dr. Shocker
Viccar of Vice

[ Edited by: Dr. Shocker 2006-08-10 12:07 ]

Good morning class, your big brother is STILL watching you, and will continue his brotherly advice (not supervision, I must differentiate):

To answer GROG's post:

CLASSIC mid-century Tiki style was NOT as rigid as it may appear on this thread. It existed between two aesthetic poles:

The densely filled, floor-to-ceiling bamboo/rattan/native weapons/masks/Tikis/Beachcomber-lamps decked out places (classic Poly Pop Tiki) on one end, and on the other end the high design mid-century modern places, where the primitive carvings worked IN CONTRAST to the modern interior or exterior ("classy", modernist Tiki). Tiki style exists in many variations between these two poles.

The Florida bar with all the swank folks and the black rock wall and floor belongs to the modernist end of the spectrum, and is CLEARLY TIKI because of the presence of great Tiki carvings. Much more, it is a perfect example of the absurdist JUXTAPOSITION of primitive art and a "modern" white clientele, and thus a perfect example of THIS FACET of Tiki style. A palm front hut with original Tikis and natives in Polynesia is not as fascinating to me because it bears no surprise. (That is the reason why I purposely kept any reference to Hawaiian or other Polynesian island Tikis out of the Book of Tiki (x-ept a few Coco Joe/Hip items)).

I love mid-century modernism, and I love 20th Century POP PRIMITIVISM, which I hinted at in my chapter "Primitive Art in Civilized Places", and which I will define further in my upcoming book "Tiki Modern and The Wild World of Witco" (sorry, more new terms!). The Tiki style I like best is in a convergence of the two. It has little to do with today's Tiki revival (other than it was its inspiration), which I also appreciate in its own right. On this thread these are now getting all thrown together which makes things confusing to some.

Photoshopping the Tikis out of that bar interior OR showing a Tiki Bob mug/statue and totally ignoring its historical context (revealed in the Book of Tiki) is like taking a fish out of water and throwing it through the air, saying "Hey, it's not in water and it flys, It's NOT a fish!"

The sense of humor and whimsy found in the design of the Tiki Bob logo Tiki (not based on the Mortlock, but on an African FANG mask, as first pointed out by Tiki Fish on this very board!) is quintessential 50s modernism. It's mainland heritage and form of application is quintessential TIKI. If you are intent on ignoring all that, fine, it's not Tiki, but then you are not a Tiki-phile.

Now, taking that vintage Chicago Bamboo lounge postcard out of the book and bringing it into this discussion gets you a D minus as it did get the person who ignored the "Evolution of Polynesian Pop" chart (also relevant here), because what BOT chapter does it hail from:
"PREEEE-Tiki and the birth of Polynesian Pop"

And the bar of the Kona Cove with the mural is clearly a case of so many classic Poly Pop elements being in place, it IS Tiki. I always stated that TECHNICALLY two classic LA Poly Pop joints, Bahooka's and Daimon's, are not Tiki because of the lack of actual Tikis, but that the amount of Beachcomber and Trader-style decor concepts in them puts them on par with the rest of the best.

To echo someone else before me....

Once you start questioning the legitimacy of Tiki art and carvings made today, well then the next step is to question everything Tiki to see how "un-Tiki" it is.
The original Polynesians that worshipped their Tikis had rum? They sipped Mai-Tais? How un-Tiki is that?
And they had little paper umbrellas in their glasses with ice? Polynesians had little paper umbrellas and ice?

And then one has to question the people doing the Tiki thing in the U.S. and ask were the original Tiki worshipers mainly white, middle class Americans that use their religion as an excuse to wear flowery "Hawaiian" shirts and party? How unTiki is that?

Nah...it´s better not to question any of it and just have Tiki fun. :)
:drink: Cheers!

To reply to Vern and Swanky:

I think Vern's point is well taken, individual history and experience should be allowed to play a part. And respond to Swanky's response:

I might point out that the whole brightly colored carving thing is from a tried and true classic maker of tiki, Orchids of Hawaii. Like this mask at the Omni Hut, when you see this type of display in an old bar, you can bet it's Orchids. So, it's not exactly un-tiki. It may be vintage tiki, just, kinda ugly.

You are right, they are part of Tiki style because they are part of it's history...just the down end of it. And that they are from "Orchids of Hawaii" is no excuse. As mentioned before, even OA, and many classic Tiki Temples, like the Kahiki in Columbus, are guilty of clown-painting Tikis in the 80s, Orchids didn't invent it. It simply was part of the devolution of the style.

80s Orchids stuff is lacking quality compared to 60s Orchids stuff. Late 70s/80s Orchids-outfitted Chinese places like Tiki Port

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=8109&forum=2&start=0

are still Tiki, but can be compared to the overly sweet and fruity red Mai Tais that the drink devolved to at the end of the heyday of the Polynesian cocktail. If there is no other rum cocktail to be had anywhere, some people might choose to enjoy those. I say this as a factual statement, with acceptance, and without sarcasm.

And I love those Tiki Cartoons. Remember, a sense of humor is VERY TIKI!

...which reading this forum you will find SADLY LACKING in many participants

tiki?

On 2006-08-10 12:06, Dr. Shocker wrote:
how would Christians feel going there and seeing a Christ Bar with drinks sold in a Jesus Mug (I have often wondered this)

Not exactly the same thing, but pretty close:
http://www.mcphee.com/categories/christianity.html
This is a perfect example of what popular culture IS. It is designed to appeal to the masses, to the general public. It is not aimed at the Christians who can't have a laugh about shooting a plastic toy nun out of a catapult. It's funny to some people, and insulting to others.
I believe this has been said elsewhere, by others, and more eloquently, but pop culture is a distortion of the original concept (whether it's native Hawaiian religion, or Christianity). Pop culture IS irreverant. It just is.
I'm not making excuses, or saying that I think it's okay to be irreverant towards the beliefs of others, but you can either choose to make a big fuss over it or let it go.

There's been a lot of fuss lately over the Party City crap being passed off as "tiki" here and I think there are a few important things to remember about Party City crap:

1. It's modern pop culture. It's aimed at the masses, not at the few of us on TC. Someone said earlier that they were insulted by some of this stuff. I can't understand why, since it's not directed at us. Party City crap is for the people who just want to have a luau/hawaiian party while they're celebrating someone's wedding anniversary or graduation. Party City crap is intended for those purposes, and then intended to be thrown away. That's modern pop culture. This stuff is not aimed at the people who are interested in tiki style and poly pop. The higher end niche market aimed at us is filled by companies like Tiki Farm and Munktiki and Oceanic Arts.
   Now because this stuff is aimed at the masses, and there's more of them than there are of us, I think this crap is here to stay. We may not like it, and we can boycott it or whatever, but there's always gonna be people buying it. It may not be at home on TC, but I've seen more than one post about "Bought this at Party City-- Any way to make it cool?" People using the granite type spray paints on cheap plastic masks is a perfect example of that.

2. It's important to remember that some Party City crap has its uses. More than once I've seen someone post that they bought a few of those plastic tiki glasses for 50 cents. They use them at parties because tiki is hard to come by in some places. If a plastic 50 cent cup gets tossed in the garbage, no big deal, it was 50 cents. If someone tosses your latest Shag/Tiki Farm mug in the garbage, some party guests get to go dumpster diving. The Party City crap is a cheap alternative to using nice stuff at parties where things are bound to get broken. There's going to be more than one person out there who says, "Why not just buy a couple of Tiki Farm 4 packs for $20. That's only $5 a mug, it's cheap, and then people can take them home." I think that's a fine idea. But I've been to graduation parties with over 40 people. That's a lot of mugs. And a lot of money. With high attendance, plastic becomes more attractive than ceramic. And not everyone is as dedicated to tiki style as others may be.

3. Most of the new collectors started out with some junk from Party City and upgraded as they learned more and found stuff that appealed to their sense of tiki aesthetic. When I first got into tiki, I didn't know where to buy cool mugs and stuff. I'd never really been in a thrift shop before. Party City was the first place I started looking because I didn't know better. The first tiki mugs I ever bought was the Accoutrements 4 pack for $12. The one with the blue, purple, green and whatever the 4th color was. They're alright mugs. Compared with the latest Tiki Farm and Munktiki offerings though, these things are sorry. But they do serve a purpose-- I'm not so worried about using (and possibly breaking) those mugs. My Tiki Tony Fatutu-- up on a high shelf-- gets pride of place. And doesn't get used often.

Since this seems to be such a sensitive and delicate subject, permit me to say again that I'm not trying to start a fight, or an argument. I'm also not trying to defend passing off Party City stuff as "tiki" or "poly pop".
I've seen more than one person say that they see any tiki as a good thing, as it increases awareness. I guess I tend to agree more with that viewpoint than with those that say I'd rather have it all be Munktiki quality, or I'd rather not have it at all. As I said above, I'm not trying to defend every offering of tiki in the world, as much of it isn't good tiki, at least by the TC definitions. But, as others have pointed out, and I agree, I think that even the bad stuff can have it's purpose.

[ Edited by: Tikiwahine - to fix a broken link - 2006-08-10 14:50 ]

STOP!shhhhhhh ,listen...... can you hear that low hissing sound? that is the fun being sucked right outta TIKI .

On 2006-08-10 12:59, ToonToonz wrote:
To echo someone else before me....

Once you start questioning the legitimacy of Tiki art and carvings made today, well then the next step is to question everything Tiki to see how "un-Tiki" it is.
The original Polynesians that worshipped their Tikis had rum? They sipped Mai-Tais? How un-Tiki is that?
And they had little paper umbrellas in their glasses with ice? Polynesians had little paper umbrellas and ice?

And then one has to question the people doing the Tiki thing in the U.S. and ask were the original Tiki worshipers mainly white, middle class Americans that use their religion as an excuse to wear flowery "Hawaiian" shirts and party? How unTiki is that?

Nah...it´s better not to question any of it and just have Tiki fun. :)
:drink: Cheers!

Oy Vey! This thread is in no way generally questioning all Tiki art made today! Either I am completely missunderstanding your post, or you are completely missunderstanding mine.

Which leads me to muse: Although we should not neccessarily "choose to agree to disagree" as stated here before, we have to accept the fact that some folks simply don't "get it", or better put, seem to CHOOSE to not "get it", while some do. This is again said without malice, it's just an observation.

On 2006-08-10 07:08, pablus wrote:
Hey, the Imperial Luau Tikis.

I saw one of them at Basement Kahuna's Kon Tiki Paradise Room.
And then I saw it again, along with its twin at KailuaGeoff's Honolulu Lounge.

BK's photos of his incredible lounge have been lost to TC.
Here is a shot of the original KG one though that he brought to the East Coast Tiki Revival ©2004 Flounder.

In remembrance...

[ Edited by: Basement Kahuna 2006-08-10 13:55 ]

On 2006-08-10 13:36, bigbrotiki wrote:

Oy Vey! This thread is in no way generally questioning all Tiki art made today!

That´s the problem I suppose; what is "un-Tiki" to you is "Tiki" to somebody else and vice-versa. And soon everything is un-Tiki. (Kind of like with the Nazi Germans started deciding what real art was. Soon almost all but realistic art was banned.) Better to have not even brought this topic up.
Let the market decide. People that buy Tiki products or go to Tiki events will do so on their own perception of if it is Tiki enough for them. Those things that aren´t won´t be purchased or attended.

:) So I guess that means I have to scrap my new product lines of "Tiki Pancakes","Tiki Tacos", and "TTT" (Tiki Toilet Tissue). :D

On 2006-08-10 13:47, Basement Kahuna wrote:

Lucky Tiki.
Thanks for postin those again BK.

BK, have you ever thought about the fact that since the Kon Tiki Paradise Room is no more, it has joined the ranks of all the great Tiki Temples in history that are no more, and thus in a sense has become truly Tiki?

On 2006-08-10 14:09, bigbrotiki wrote:
BK, have you ever thought about the fact that since the Kon Tiki Paradise Room is no more, it has joined the ranks of all the great Tiki Temples in history that are no more, and thus in a sense has become truly Tiki?

So, is this the "formula" were shooting for Sven?

On 2006-08-10 13:52, ToonToonz wrote:

That´s the problem I suppose; what is "un-Tiki" to you is "Tiki" to somebody else and vice-versa. And soon everything is un-Tiki. (Kind of like with the Nazi Germans started deciding what real art was. Soon almost all but realistic art was banned.)

Oh mein gott! I cink you hit on somecink here! I DO like American Bavarian restaurants, and I love American movie depictions of German Nazis. Maybe I am some sort of a cross between Gilligan and Colonel Klinck!

[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - fixed BBcode - 2006-08-12 16:48 ]

On 2006-08-10 13:36, bigbrotiki wrote:

...we have to accept the fact that some folks simply don't "get it", or better put, seem to CHOOSE to not "get it", while some do.

Sad but true.

On 2006-08-10 14:13, Unga Bunga wrote:

On 2006-08-10 14:09, bigbrotiki wrote:
BK, have you ever thought about the fact that since the Kon Tiki Paradise Room is no more, it has joined the ranks of all the great Tiki Temples in history that are no more, and thus in a sense has become truly Tiki?

So, is this the "formula" were shooting for Sven?

Yes, Tiki is really a dark death cult of destruction and despair! Now that the fun is being sucked out of it, it is slowly revealing itself!

On 2006-08-10 14:13, Unga Bunga wrote:

On 2006-08-10 14:09, bigbrotiki wrote:
BK, have you ever thought about the fact that since the Kon Tiki Paradise Room is no more, it has joined the ranks of all the great Tiki Temples in history that are no more, and thus in a sense has become truly Tiki?

So, is this the "formula" were shooting for Sven?

No, but honestly, I just thought of that when I saw all those amazing pictures, and thought it might be a bittersweet condolence to BK.

To me personally, another facet of a what attracts me to classic Tiki style is the sense of temps perdu. I dig melancholic ancestral remembrance, and fighting the lost fight, well voiced in this quote about the last unrepentant Samurai:

They were like autumn lightning: An empty promise of rain, falling unheeded on fields already bare.

Thank you ToonToonz for invoking Godwin's Law.

..sbim

On 2006-08-10 14:42, Suffering Bastard in Maine wrote:
Thank you ToonToonz for invoking Godwin's Law.

..sbim

I believe that etiquette now dictates that the discussion is officially over and the thread should be locked?
Anyone?

What about Quirks's Exception?