mixology beginner questions

So I got the mixology bug, bought the Tiki Drinks book, bought like a million dollars of liquor (my god it cost $$ to stock a bar!!!!), and started mixing. I have some questions...

1. Is "sour mix" the same as sweet and sour mix?

2. Why does 151 seem to always get floated?

3. How do you measure crushed ice? I have cubes that go in the blender.... ????

4. Why does alcohol cost so much!!!!!!

thanks!!!

1. No.

2. So it's the first thing to hit your lips and coat your mouth with its delicious rumminess.

3. Get out of the habit of measuring. Use what looks right and learn by experimentation and experience. It's very much like cooking. Notice how grandma hardly ever uses measuring spoons? Get to be like that.

4. Try cheap booze. Remember, cocktails were invented to mask the flavor of lousy booze, so in an awful lot of cocktails the delicate flavors of expensive booze are almost lost in the mixing of ingredients. For something simple like a Martini, where there are only two ingredients, well the quality of the source booze is paramount. But in a Cosmopolitan, where there are four ingredients, I've found it's possible to mix a Cosmo with cheap supermarket-type booze and come up with something that's quite as good as any $25 Cosmo I've had in Manhattan made with Grey Goose. Honest.

I would recommend you buy the paperback "Bartender's Bible," and not only for the recipes. The opening chapters discuss bar setup, what to stock for what kinds of bars, basic equipment to purchase, etc. Plus informative chapters on the interesting histories and qualities of the various types of booze.

5. don't listen to satan's sin

ALWAYS measure PRECISELY though crushed ice isn't so important.

NEVER use cheap booze, purchase the best quality you can afford. Cheap booze will give you a hangover, and try to avoid flavoured rums, and bacardi rums. But bacardi 151 is ok.

Hey, tikiwahine, you try putting three kids through college while still buying expensive booze! Hmph!

On 2006-08-30 18:47, Davez_tikiz wrote:
So I got the mixology bug, bought the Tiki Drinks book, bought like a million dollars of liquor (my god it cost $$ to stock a bar!!!!), and started mixing. I have some questions...

Welcome to the wonderful world 'behind' the bar! There is nothing quite like the drink you make on your own.....

1. Is "sour mix" the same as sweet and sour mix?

Yes, and if you make your own you will be much happier with it compared to anything in a bottle.

2. Why does 151 seem to always get floated?

Because if you made a drink with nothing but 151 you would be a fire hazard. The "Slightly Scientific" answer to your question is that as the ice melts your drink dilutes. If you float a shot of 151 on top, you are adding a very high proof alcohol on the 'top' of the drink to keep the alcohol level up as you introduce water to the mix. You will notice that most drinks with a 151 float are served with straws.

3. How do you measure crushed ice? I have cubes that go in the blender.... ????

The specific answer is to get a whole bunch of ice and start blending. Count/measure the number of cubes that go in to fill you basic serving vessels. Then, when you are mixing into a cocktail glass you have an idea of how much ice to use.

4. Why does alcohol cost so much!!!!!!

Because anything worth doing is worth doing well. This is doubly true behind the bar. When you go out to a bar, you are in a business and their are business concerns governing the drinks you are served. When you are in your own home-bar, the only consideration is what you like. And, if you are like me, you will only settle for premium and top-shelf ingredients. A little example for demonstration....

Beachbum Berry has a recipe for a $100 Mai-Tai. The ingredients to make the drink will set you back about a C-note (ish). Well, if you mix according to plan you will actually get 20 drinks out of the deal making your cost per cocktail an easy $5 which is considerably better than what you are going to find at your local watering hole. And, it is a top-shelf cocktail with nothing but the finest ingredients! Well..... you get the idea.

This is just the first step into a larger world of liver abuse and a never ending hunt for the next exotic flavor to go with that great bottle you found on the forgotten bottom shelf of your local liquor store.

On 2006-08-30 20:11, Satan's Sin wrote:
Hey, tikiwahine, you try putting three kids through college while still buying expensive booze! Hmph!

I didn't say buy expensive, I said buy the best you can afford :wink:

stop by for a drink sometime and I'll drown your cheap rum sorrows with a cocktail

On 2006-08-30 20:08, Tikiwahine wrote:

...ALWAYS measure PRECISELY

Yeah, what she said. Free Pouring may be fine for simple drinks with two or three ingredients, but I really don't recommend doing that for a Zombie or Headhunter. You could hurt yourself :wink:

I would like to add the following three tips (some of them are abvious...):

1 - If you are trying something for the first time, see if you can get one of the little 3 oz bottles. That way you are not stuck with a fifth of something you dont like.

2 - When you mix a recipe for the first time, follow the recipe as exactly as you can. After you have had one, then start adjusting the recipe to your tastes (more lime, less lemon, etc....)

3 - Well, I dont really have a third suggestion other than to say "Drink what you like, and like what you drink." Its your cocktail at your bar, enjoy it.

Great info- Thanks! I'll hunt around for the bartender's bible. I just ordered Grog Log off of Ebay... now the floating thing makes sense! Any more tips????

Don't put your fingers in the ice crusher. Nellie, that hurts!

Floats are there to evaporate a bit and give a scent to a drink. 151 floats are there to allow you to not drink them. You can if you want, of course. Think of it as a garnish.

Ice is not required to be measured at all. As long as the drink fills the glass when you are done, you are fine. You'll know how much after just a few drinks have been mixed. Worrying about how much ice in a shaker is like worrying how much wood is in the fire to cook on. It makes the no real difference outside common sense.

Booze is to be bought slowly over time. My bar is so packed I can't get anything in it anymore, but when I started so many years ago, it would fit in a breadbox. You collect it like mugs.

I personally don't care for floaters. I prefer a drink that is even and smooth all the way to the last drop. I'm not too keen on the ZAP! you get at the end of a drink from a 151 floater.

Oh, and use fresh squeezed juices ALWAYS! This applies to lemon, lime, orange and grapefruit. For pineapple, buy the little cans. And if you can get them, use key limes instead of persian limes. Key limes are what the rest of the world just calls limes. They're smaller and more time consuming to get as much juice, but well worth the effort because the taste is superior. But since they are more tart, you might want to cut back a little on how much you use. For instance, 3/4oz if the recipe calls for 1oz.

And as far as cheap booze goes, some of it is quite good (Coruba, Cruzan). Just depends. Read up all you can here on Tiki Central and you'll find lots of good tips on good brands, expensive or otherwise.

On 2006-08-31 09:52, GatorRob wrote:
And if you can get them, use key limes instead of persian limes. Key limes are what the rest of the world just calls limes. They're smaller and more time consuming to get as much juice, but well worth the effort because the taste is superior.

Yikes, we sure don't call them regular limes up here! Key limes are tiny and time consuming and have a totally different flavour. Plus due to their thin, often tarnished skin they make for lousy garnish. But I do suggest trying them if you can get them! To me they're only available in bags of 20 or so, therefore I only use them when I have a special recipe in mind. Regular limes are big and juicy and 4 fer $1.

Do you really think the flavour is superior? I think a comparison is in order.
to the research lab!

canned pineapple? oh the horror!

On 2006-08-31 09:52, GatorRob wrote:
I personally don't care for floaters. I prefer a drink that is even and smooth all the way to the last drop. I'm not too keen on the ZAP! you get at the end of a drink from a 151 floater.

You're right. If you gulp your drink down too fast that floater will be a shock. Either slow down or use your swizzle stick. Personally I would never turn down the float, just know how to use it.

On 2006-08-31 10:57, Hakalugi wrote:
just know how to use it.

I love it... know how to use your floaters. :)

On 2006-08-31 10:08, Tikiwahine wrote:
Yikes, we sure don't call them regular limes up here! Key limes are tiny and time consuming and have a totally different flavour. Plus due to their thin, often tarnished skin they make for lousy garnish. But I do suggest trying them if you can get them! To me they're only available in bags of 20 or so, therefore I only use them when I have a special recipe in mind. Regular limes are big and juicy and 4 fer $1.

Do you really think the flavour is superior? I think a comparison is in order.
to the research lab!

Wahine, check out this link: http://www.foodreference.com/html/artkeylimes.html and this post. Personally, I find they have more zip and a more clean flavor. That's an odd description, but the best I can come up with at the moment. I personally find that flavor (not flavour :wink:) to be superior. Do some taste testing and let us know what you think!

Sorry to derail this thread with a discussion of limes...

[4) Try cheap booze. Remember, cocktails were invented to mask the flavor of lousy booze, so in an awful lot of cocktails the delicate flavors of expensive booze are almost lost in the mixing of ingredients. For something simple like a Martini, where there are only two ingredients, well the quality of the source booze is paramount. But in a Cosmopolitan, where there are four ingredients, I've found it's possible to mix a Cosmo with cheap supermarket-type booze and come up with something that's quite as good as any $25 Cosmo I've had in Manhattan made with Grey Goose. Honest.

I agree with Satan's Sin, unfortunately, to make a lot of good rum drinks, you need Lemon Hart Demerara and some decent jamaican rum. The only tropical drinks I can get away with using sheap booze are Chi-Chi's (well vodka, preferably Ralph's "Prestige" brand, bourbon drinks like the Port Light (Evan Williams or Ancient Age) and gin drinks, although the signapore sling uses a lot of expensive liquers if depending on your recipe. Perfecting a great Navy grog using Pusser's Rum, Lemon Hart and Appleton probably costs me three dollars a drink!

Astronaut

"Our lime juice is particularly important and there is a long history of its use here at the Mai-Kai. We prefer juice from what is called a Mexican West Indies lime or Key Lime. There are two kinds of limes, which are quite different in appearance and taste. There is a Persian or Tahitian lime, which is large and shaped, likes a lemon. Then there is the Mexican or West Indies or Key Lime that is smaller and completely round like a golf ball, and although green through its growing and maturing stage it begins to turn yellow as it ripens. There is a tremendous difference in the taste of these two items and we have always noticed and preferred the juice of the West Indies lime. We had them compared and analyzed a few years ago in a lab and were told that the West Indies lime has a much higher oil content and acidity. This is our preference and the choice of the lime makes a very noticeable difference in the taste of the drinks."
-Kern Mattei
General Manager of the Mai Kai

ok, sure, but how does everyone here feel about it? Would all of you use key limes in place of regular limes for every drink they make?

TW, i use key limes because i can get them easily...it's a matter of supply for me...in the end as long as it tastes like a mai tai it's all good.

On 2006-09-01 10:44, Tikiwahine wrote:
ok, sure, but how does everyone here feel about it? Would all of you use key limes in place of regular limes for every drink they make?

Not me. I get real juicy limes at Trader Joe's by the bagfull. I can't see paying more and doing more work to use key limes. But, I'm glad the Mai-Kai chooses what they believe are the best.

I take the easy way out and use Nellie's Key Lime juice in a bottle. Although this summer I have used only regular fresh limes and juiced on the fly. Most of the last few years I used Nellie's almost exclusively. Gasp.

The lime/juice/ingedient/brand X debate is one that consumes many threads here on TC.....

Maybe this can sum it up, specifically regarding the home-bar:

1 - If you are stocking a home-bar and are making cocktails for few (one) people, there is absolutly no doubt that you should be aquiring the best ingredients available and that you can afford. It is, afterall, your cocktail at your bar for yourself and friends so why wouldn't you use the best. I want to emphasize that you are looking for the best you can afford. There is no point in spending 'too much' on a bottle of something and then feeling that it is 'too special' to pour on an average night. Get the lesser brand and enjoy it every night. You will be much happier in the long run.

2 - If you are having a party and plan on making large quantities of drinks (or are just really thirsty) you will need to move down the quality scale a bit and probably for financial reasons. You are probably not going to want to pour $30+ rums into cokes for the drunken masses. During said party, you can always grab a few 'select' people and invite them to enjoy a special cocktail during which you can make a small presentation of making a drink using 'the good stuff.'

3 - Keep in mind that TC is an amazing resource for ingredients, techniques, ideas and recipes. But! The ohana that make up this little gang cover most of the time zones. What I have in abundance her in Florida may be very scarce where you are and vice-versa. And just because someone said that something is to-die-for doesn't mean you are going to like it. Drink what you like and like what you drink, its that simple.

I will get off of my rum box now. Everyone can go back to your regular drinking now. Move along, there is nothing left to see........

I try to use mid priced brands for all but the most exclusive guests i.e. The ones that know a fine drink when they see it being made. I hate it when some one says "They like single malt Scotch" and then slam down a small glass worth $10 in one gulp. Same thing with a Mai Tai I spent $100 on ingredients for and then ask "Where's the pineapple jiuce?"

Wow! Lots of great stuff! I've been using lime juice and orange juice from the bottle. I'll try the fresh stuff... (and maybe buy some better rum:)

New burning question: How come a drink from a shaker has you fill the shaker with ice, shake it, and then pour into a glass with ice? Why not just pour out the ice and drink from the shaker? Seems like you double the ice.

Burning question #2... How do you learn how to float stuff? I've been floating 151 which you can't see if it floats, but I made an Atlantic Breeze today, which has you float grenadine... and.... STRAIGHT to the bottom! Help!!!!

On 2006-09-01 18:25, Davez_tikiz wrote:
I've been using lime juice and orange juice from the bottle. I'll try the fresh stuff... (and maybe buy some better rum:)

A new convert is born! YAY! But as has been said here, do what YOU like and like what YOU do. Or something like that.

How come a drink from a shaker has you fill the shaker with ice, shake it, and then pour into a glass with ice?

I don't usually strain the drink unless the recipe specifically calls for it. What I do usually is this: fill the shaker with the ingredients that are to be shaken (first juices, then syrups, then alcohol), THEN add ice, shake, dump all to a glass or mug, and add more ice if necessary. I don't think I hardly ever strain into a glass that has fresh ice in it. Seems wasteful of the ice in the shaker.

How do you learn how to float stuff? I've been floating 151 which you can't see if it floats, but I made an Atlantic Breeze today, which has you float grenadine... and.... STRAIGHT to the bottom! Help!!!!

THIS ARTICLE should answer your question. Take a look at the density chart. Notice that grenadine is way at the bottom of the chart, meaning it is dense and will sink to the bottom as you observed.

On 2006-09-01 18:25, Davez_tikiz wrote:
New burning question: How come a drink from a shaker has you fill the shaker with ice, shake it, and then pour into a glass with ice? Why not just pour out the ice and drink from the shaker? Seems like you double the ice.

This may seem like you are using twice the amount of ice, but there is another "Slightly Scientific" answer: The ice in the shaker is now 'warm' and if you pour the whole contents of the shaker into the glass, the ice wont last long. By pouring your drink over 'fresh' ice the drink will stay colder longer (and cold drinks melt less ice keeping the balance in your drink).

You can see this in action if you care to do a little bar experiment.... Take a shaker full of ice and add 6 oz of room temperature water. Shake it and strain the liquid back into a measuring cup. You should have wound up with about 8 oz (ish) of water after the shake. That melt is what balances as well as mixes your cocktail. Now take a look at the ice left in the shaker, looks kind of beat up an melted. A fresh glass of ice is much prettier.

Hey Blue Thunder...that Single Malt slammer thing irks me too. (or Only Cuban Cigars or French Champagne)

Most people who call for a "type" of bevy using a buzzword like Single Malt, yet not distinguishing between the huge variations within them is usually a no-nothing.

Blended malts are fine...they were intended to be more consistant than single malts (which they are) more affordable, and made to specific tastes of various people...Initially the English and Women who didn't like the harsher tastes of stronger Scotches which were first marketed.

Sorry...just stuck in my craw.

Funny thing I love single malts from the Speyside/Highlands areas but don't care for Isla as they are too peaty for me. My wife who is from Scotland doesn't like blended but will sip singles all day. I agree there are some very nice blends i.e. Pinch, Johnny Walker but even at that I rarely use them alone except maybe with soda. And most people don't realize that proper single malt tasting includes a slight amount of water to open up the taste. Too early but this is making me thirsty. But I find that really exceptional liquors no matter what they are are nicer to enjoy as a sipping experience whether it Rum, Scotch, Bourbon or even Tequila.

On 2006-09-02 08:03, Gigantalope wrote:
Hey Blue Thunder...that Single Malt slammer thing irks me too. (or Only Cuban Cigars or French Champagne)

Most people who call for a "type" of bevy using a buzzword like Single Malt, yet not distinguishing between the huge variations within them is usually a no-nothing.

Blended malts are fine...they were intended to be more consistant than single malts (which they are) more affordable, and made to specific tastes of various people...Initially the English and Women who didn't like the harsher tastes of stronger Scotches which were first marketed.

Sorry...just stuck in my craw.

On 2006-08-31 10:10, Tiki Pop wrote:
canned pineapple? oh the horror!

They meant the little cans of pineapple juice, not little cans of pineapple. And please don't tell me to squeeze fresh pineapple juice! No one here has the money nor time.

And remember, people: key lime juice is not a substitute for lime juice. The two have completely different flavors and can rarely play the other's role. Look in our recent big Mai Tai thread. Someone made a Mai Tai with key lime juice and it was horrible!

On 2006-09-02 15:17, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
And please don't tell me to squeeze fresh pineapple juice!

Absolutely not. You could pull a muscle doing that. Don't squeeze the cans either.

And remember, people: key lime juice is not a substitute for lime juice. The two have completely different flavors and can rarely play the other's role. Look in our recent big Mai Tai thread. Someone made a Mai Tai with key lime juice and it was horrible!

I've made a number of drinks with key lime juice and they've all been wonderful. Order a drink at the Mai Kai with lime juice in it and it will be key lime juice. Leroy Schmaltz makes his Mai Tais with key lime juice. Need I go on? :wink:

On 2006-09-02 15:17, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
And remember, people: key lime juice is not a substitute for lime juice. The two have completely different flavors and can rarely play the other's role. Look in our recent big Mai Tai thread. Someone made a Mai Tai with key lime juice and it was horrible!

While they are definitely different, that doesn't mean that everyone dislikes them. It is also possible that Sabu was referring to a specific variety of key lime (or mexican lime) as he referred to it as a "Fowler Lime".

Also this is another quote from that same Mai Tai thread:

Martiki wrote:

1. Limes- Chances are very good that he made the first Mai Tai with a Bearss/Persian. I think Key Limes make a nice Mai Tai, but are too fussy for my taste. The juice quantity/quality ratio of the Bearss is nearly unbeatable. I should know: I use six thousand of them a month. The king of the margarita, Julio Bermejo of Tommy's/Tres Agaves swears by the Persian as well for his flawless margaritas. Yes, he is the Mexican government's tequila ambassador to the United States (real job!) But I digress. And they're extra great now that they're in season.

Personally I really like the seedless Bearss/Persian limes.

Chris

[ Edited by: Kona Chris 2006-09-03 06:49 ]

All I meant is that key limes taste very different from "normal" ones. Drinks that substitute one for the other may be good, but the taste and drink is completely different, and not all drinks are prime for the switch.

Not to mention that sweetness is also different within the two varieties, so proportions must also be different during the mixing.

On 2006-09-03 08:48, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
All I meant is that key limes taste very different from "normal" ones. Drinks that substitute one for the other may be good, but the taste and drink is completely different, and not all drinks are prime for the switch.

Not to mention that sweetness is also different within the two varieties, so proportions must also be different during the mixing.

Which reminds me of another great tip for the home mixologist....

Taste Everything!

Pour yourself a little sip of everything on your bar so you can taste it individually. You will get to know your bar very intimately and have a good idea of what will and wont go with what. You will also have a good idea of how to adjust a recipe to your tastes or to substitute ingredients.

For example... I suffer from frequent heartburn so I usually reduce the citrus ingredients a bit in most drinks if I plan on having more than one (of which I usually do....). But to reduce the lemon or lime in a drink requires the other ingredients to be adjusted as well and you wont be able to make those adjustments unless you have at least a basic understanding of the tastes of the other ingredients. And, some cocktails have far too many ingredients to simply say less of this always equals more of that.

Taste everything you have and you will be able to decide for yourself what works in your cocktails whether it is Fresh Key Limes or Frozen Lemon or Bottled Lychee Nectar.....

Good idea... got me some fresh limes today .... so what's the best way to squeeze them?

On 2006-09-03 12:11, Tikiwahine wrote:

And you can find these in Bed, Bath & Beyond, William & Sonoma, Target, etc.

Cool! I'm off to get one now.... thanks!

On 2006-09-03 14:20, Davez_tikiz wrote:
Cool! I'm off to get one now.... thanks!

Well? How 'ya doing behind the bar? Any new recipes you willing to share?

Nothing that new.... just trying to make stuff from Beachbum Berry's Intoxica.. having a blast! Gotta buy some tiki mugs now.... and some Demarara

I too am just starting out and the best advice I have found for keeping costs down is don't try to make every drink. Just pick a few to start with that use similar ingredients and branch out from there. And I have watched many Tiki masters measure their drinks even tho they have made them countless times, so don't try to wing it.

On 2006-10-11 12:58, Jazztiki wrote:
I too am just starting out and the best advice I have found for keeping costs down is don't try to make every drink. Just pick a few to start with that use similar ingredients and branch out from there. And I have watched many Tiki masters measure their drinks even tho they have made them countless times, so don't try to wing it.

You have started your journey well.....

Start simple, start small. It has taken me about two years of monthly trips to the liquor store to get the bar stocked. My suggestion to you and the pocketbook is to get a bottle of liquor and a bottle something else each trip (makes it about $50 a trip). After a while you should have enough to make just about anything in the Grog Log.