Tiki Central / Tiki Carving
Stone Carving: Q&A + Gallery...
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Tamapoutini
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Wed, May 7, 2008 2:42 AM
Kia ora Robin - A rollin' and a rockin'? A Tiki-Tour? Sounds like fun! Headed anywhere in particular..? -- *The main things Id be considering if considering a road-trip laboratory would be 'how long am I going for'? and 'how much can I prepare in advance to emliminate the need for.. certain tools?' Personally, Id slab up stone in advance (and even have designs drawn up and 'trimmed' in advance; but you may be wishing to design from inspiration from the trip itself..?), thereby doing away with the need for a trimsaw, or as you say use cutting discs in the handpiece (REALLY CAREFULLY! Those suckers can bite big-time if you lose concentration and twist the thing while youve got it embedded any more than a few mm into the stone!) The only two I really cant do without** are the main grinding wheel (flat or peripheral) & the handpiece. All diamond cloth and sandpaper stages can be done by hand or if you can build a multi-adaptable unit, all the better. Ditto BenZ' roughout technique: if it works for you then it is a good tool! Of course you will somehow need to set up somewhere to sit, some sort of water-feed (bucket/gravity), and some sort of drainage (do it outside?). All the usuals: earmuffs, goggles, lighting (preferably), and something to power it all up! Again safely! quote: 'I notice that you both have some larger areas of negative space/indents. Like on your Manaia Paipo, and in some of the mouths on your pieces Tama...almost vertical transitions to flatter spaces with some depth. I am curious as to how you smooth these areas...I haven't figured that out yet. Even with the worn burs they don't get smooth enough and I can't get diamond cloth in there. I believe I've mentioned that our diamond cloth is not nearly as flexible as yours...it has a sort of plastic coating on the back that makes it difficult to wrap on a mandrel, or fold.' Its true it can be very difficult to get in and clean up in some of the very finest corners and/or deepest areas. The plastic backing on that diamond cloth sounds like a hindrance, as you have identified. The stuff I use can be rolled/curled into a cone shape (using 1 x 1" square approx..) with a firm point that can be worked into almost anything a burr can create. Sometimes its a matter of holding your breath and 'pinching' the cloth a little to give it stiffness. If any given area is carved well/smooth enough (rubbing-sticks eh Paip?), it really only needs 6-8 well-aimed passes of the diamonds to do the job. Re: Hongia burrs - I plan on placing an order myself soon & will talk to Mr Man just to clarify whether or not we are actually dealing with the genuine article, and if so if he's happy for me to re-post the catalogue. Howzat? **And just because I say you cant do without them, doesnt mean you cant do without them. Did you ever heard the one about the guy who carved a full-sized maripi/sharktooth flesh-knife, with just a handpiece??!! Paipo tells it better.. :wink: Hope this helps in some way. Have a good trip! Take photos! Tama :) |
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Tamapoutini
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Wed, May 7, 2008 3:14 AM
But he's been on the straight and narrow ever since.. It's about time you got your rock hammer out again isnt it G? You're a natural.. T :) |
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Tamapoutini
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Wed, May 7, 2008 3:17 AM
And what ever happened to this piece Mr B? I dont remember seeing it finished..? TTT :wink: |
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Paipo
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Wed, May 7, 2008 5:38 AM
I've thought about the "Travelling kit" scenario too, and I think I could get away with about 6-8 burrs, a few strips of diamond cloth, my handpiece and a pocketful of pebbles. In fact I probably wouldn't even need the cloth. Jade carving - maybe not so easy. Ben's method is okay if you have nothing else, but roughing out with the handpiece using bullets or discs is hard going and not too kind on the stone (or the handpiece for that matter!). I'd go with Tama's suggestion of doing as much pre-shaping as you can so you can do most of your work with the handpiece. Unless you have some sort of nifty combo unit the thought of trying to set up a saw, wheel and a handpiece somewhere temporary seems like a lot of work and hassle... |
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Robin
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Wed, May 7, 2008 4:34 PM
Wow...thanks so much for the fast replies! I'm headed to the Washington coast...Olympia...for the summer. Got a job in a state park, I'll be living in my van, and doing some stone carving in the off hours....that's the plan anyway. On the way, I'm going to stop in Wyoming and check out some jade places. I hope to make some kind of run to BC also for the same reason. I was worried about the handpiece taking a beating too Paipo...mine is a smallish number, Faro quick release, and it's not a really tough tool. Got slabs cut. I'm probably gonna take the bigger wheels and a motor...just 'cause it's so useful for other stuff too...I think it will be worth the hassle in the long run. I don't have it worked out how to get water to the grinding wheel yet, but I do for the handpiece. I can use quick grips to clamp the motor to the picnic table, and I'll be there awhile so I won't have to move it daily. I don't have time to plan designs right now...I wish I had thought of that sooner! I'll skip the trim saw, and do the trimming with the handpiece...very carefully and slowly...thanks for that advice Tama. It's easy to get to aggressive with the fast spinning wheels. Thanks for the info on the cloth and papers...good tips...maybe those other guys will sell that diamond cloth too....man it's expensive....but I sure do wish I had some. Also hadn't thought about light...so I'll plan for that...the headlamp probably isn't going to be enough. :) I'm thinking about getting some small solar panels for a power booster just in case. Electricity could be a problem sometimes. I think I am getting to know the stone a bit better....the tension releasing from the stone is driving me crazy. I think I have cleanish stone, and then these fractures show up down the road. That didn't happen with the stones I used in NZ....but then the shapes were pretty simple and uniform. My grinding wheels arbor is a bit wonky...not enough to fix it yet, but I suspect that the slight chatter from not being quite true is causing some of the problem. I go from not aggressive enough with the burs, to too aggressive when I get my guts up. You should see Ben work...he is no nonsense when he carves...but then he really knows what he's doing. Earmuffs and goggles...do you guys use those! Oh my! I really don't like wearing stuff when I work..it's always been a problem, and I've been busted for it a lot. Thanks to you as well Paipo....I'm hoping I find some good pebbles to try...I've heard of finding agate too..The coast of Washington is amazing and wild...some places you can hear the rocks being rolled by the Pacific like on the beaches of the Tasman Sea. I'm going to be on the calm side though...Puget Sound area. I haven't been there before, but maybe they have some good pebbles too. I'm amazed you do all that with just burs....I bought every bur you and Tama posted...and some others too! I'm getting some favorites, and some I haven't even tried yet. Really appreciate your thoughts and advice, it's almost like we did this over a beer. Let me know if you think of anything else. What do you think Ben? Ben has every tool known to man BTW...I'd be interested to hear what you think is essential too. I'm off for more packing and planning....possibly get dinner in there somewhere. Many thanks. |
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GMAN
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Wed, May 7, 2008 4:49 PM
:D Yeah......... |
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Tamapoutini
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Wed, May 7, 2008 7:18 PM
Now Wyoming might be a great place to stock up - Ive seen some incredible nephrite from that place; an amazing variety of colours & some of the hardest/tightest jade Ive ever seen. Well worth asking around while your there. Id be looking for local rockhounds rather than lapidary supply shops but it all depends on how available it is.. Yep, stone quality is half the battle won - or lost. It certainly doesnt hurt your education to work with crappy stone. As students we did some amazing stuff with some very average materials (a very costly-to-run course, Im not dissing it..) and in retrospect I can now appreciate our efforts all the more. But yes, those wee pings/chips/fractures can be a nightmare. making those softer/simpler rounded shapes doesnt ask so much of stone with shakey structure like that, whereas a carving with sharp/crisp detail or levels is asking for trouble. My own work suffers from this all the time & Im forever discounting prices because of this; just part of the fun.. When the occasional REALLY nice piece of stone comes your way, you learn to appreciate it! Similarly, when that rare carving goes off without a hitch or a fracture and youve carved yourself proud - then thats a piece to either keep for yourself, give to a loved one, or sell at top dollar!! (Double what you would normally want, triple..!) Earmuffs/goggles: To be honest I hardly ever wear goggles, only occasionally when using the trimsaw. Grinding (jade - some other stones are more 'pingy') and using the handpiece hardly ever throws off a chip. I was having a beer - weren't you? :wink: Keep us posted on the micro-bench! Tama :) |
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Benzart
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Thu, May 8, 2008 3:55 AM
WOW, Incredible Info, Thanks guys. |
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timidtiki
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Thu, May 8, 2008 7:04 AM
Hi Robin - I envy you Summer plans, and remember living most of my life along the California, Oregon and Washington coastal areas. I had planned to retire near Port Angeles (Washington) but fate sent me East. I don't know where you ae beginning your trip, but you can find some nice chloromelanite (black jadeite) beach pebbles near Cresent City, California. I also purchased some really beautiful emerald green jade (pic attached) from an eBay seller who claimed it came from a deposit near Skagit, Washington. The seller said it was jadite but I have some reservations about the claim. Anyway, whether jadite or nephrite it is nice carving material. Good luck, good carving, and a pleasant Summer to you. |
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Robin
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Fri, May 9, 2008 6:34 AM
Well thanks Timid. The West Coast of the U.S. is really some beautiful country. I drove 101 from L.A. to Washington one year up and around the Olympic Peninsula, and hopped the ferry in Port Townsend and then to the San Juans...I spun on the deck of the ferry, and thought this is some of the most beautiful country I've ever seen....can't wait to get back there. I haven't seen the east side of the peninsula yet. Things just fell into place this year...I'm feeling pretty lucky...now if I can just find some jade! I'll check out the Crescent City and Skagit County areas. Thanks for that. Wish me luck! Any more tips or contacts greatly appreciated. I'm not sure how to hook up with people in the know. I might need a decoder ring. From my limited knowledge and from what I can see in the picture...I'd say that piece was nephrite...and really pretty. The jadeite I've seen has a really distinctive structure..way different from nephrite. Tama? Paipo? PrarieJade? I've done some limited research on where to find jade in Wyoming...apparently there was a Jade rush much like the Gold rush in the 30's/40's, and there has been tons and tons of the stuff mined there. I have isolated an area to look around in Wyoming....fingers crossed. Ben...thanks...I use the same system Ben for water...works really well. I saw the above black jade piece while I was at Ben's Chop. Still in pretty much the same stage...Ben...get on that one...it needs out of the box! Traveling light....lots of room for rocks. Tama...will get that thing spinning better...I'm gonna change out motors and arbor. I hate it when my fingers go numb! Your assessment of the stone process is much like the clay process. When everything goes just right, and you know you've done something fine...oh man...it's the best....and then there's the humbling part too. JadiGypsy |
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Tamapoutini
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Sun, May 11, 2008 4:05 AM
The Jadi-Gypsy sees all with her stone-scrying eye.. I would agree that this looks very much like nephrite - and a honey of a slice too! Now if it were a leatherclad motorbike trip we could call you 'Rock'n Robin' - but you'd definately need to rethink the workshop.. :wink: Tama :) |
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Benzart
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Mon, Jun 9, 2008 6:07 AM
Well since Robin is rockin around the rock piles we CAN call her "Rockin Robin" :lol: THIS is from a link shown me by our Rocker Tama and I figured it will help a bit for rock carving |
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timidtiki
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Mon, Jun 9, 2008 5:07 PM
The "real" thing, Ben, carved by Donn Salt from USA Big Sur jade (also shown on the link you cited): |
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timidtiki
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Fri, Jul 4, 2008 9:58 AM
DIAMOND SANDPAPER - Can anyone suggest a source for this material (diamond sandpaper) in the US? My searches have not been successful! Thanks. |
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Benzart
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Fri, Jul 4, 2008 12:50 PM
YES, That be the one [ Edited by: Benzart 2008-07-04 18:23 ] |
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prairie jade
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Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:10 PM
the wife and i have been all over the states looking for jade-found my first jade in 1971 on the beach @willow creek in big sur. |
PJ
prairie jade
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Tue, Jul 8, 2008 6:17 PM
benzart- was pleased to see you getting involved on donn salt's new carving site--does this mean you are attending the workshop in california in late october? |
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Benzart
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Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:14 PM
Thanks Prairie Jade, I would LOVE to come out in October for the Workshop but there is no way I could afford it or physically make the trip. I have been exploring the carving path plus Donns site, TONS of great information so much my brain is getting overloaded. I am seeking to get more into the small Netsuke type carving, MAYBE, as I Really love this Bone stuff and see that it will take Incredibly fine detail on such a small scale that I feel compelled to work at it. |
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Benzart
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Tue, Jul 8, 2008 7:17 PM
I almost forgot, and HOW Could I, ROBIN, We miss you, Come Home you are on the wrong side of the world. and well maybe I'm just a little bit Jealous. Hope everything is all right out there. |
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Tamapoutini
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Wed, Jul 9, 2008 2:23 AM
Interesting. Thanks PJ - sounds very much like the state of play here in NZ! Best/easiest stone collected years ago, still around but virtually impossible to find/buy at any price, fossicking rights now very restricted.. To my mind, this can only mean that the value of good quality jade, worked or unworked, can only rise.. :wink: |
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GreenCarvings
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Thu, Jul 17, 2008 1:32 AM
ahhhhh my boss has been away for about two weeks and i haven't been able to carve =( |
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Tamapoutini
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Thu, Jul 17, 2008 2:02 AM
Well youre in the right place! :) If youre not ready to start your own thread yet, I always intended for this thread to be a place for others to post their stonework. Keep us posted! |
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Tamapoutini
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Thu, Jul 17, 2008 2:02 AM
Ed:double post
[ Edited by: Tamapoutini 2008-07-17 02:02 ] |
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AlohaStation
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Thu, Jul 24, 2008 9:31 AM
bump for Surfintiki |
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surfintiki
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Thu, Jul 24, 2008 10:00 AM
now we're talkin!:D:D:D:D |
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GreenCarvings
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Sun, Sep 28, 2008 2:50 AM
Hey there guys im Reuben im 15 and i work in a small carving studio here in nz.There hasnt been much stoning going on here so i thought id post few pictures of some of my carvings from awhile back. |
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Tamapoutini
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Sun, Sep 28, 2008 10:03 PM
Hey Reuben - I still havent made it down to Hokitika to try and catch you and/or Steve. Crazy considering its only 20mins down the road but we tend to turn the other way at the junction & head towards Greymouth for most things. Youre more than welcome to drop in at my place if youre ever passing through Kumara, just drop me an email/PM.. Nice 'first' post bruddah! Love the little peeky-tiki & the fern-frond piece & the finish on your whale is perfection. (might have to pick your brain in regards to how that binding on the toki is done too..) ps: Is the pekapeka carved from tangiwai? Keep up the good work! |
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GreenCarvings
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Sun, Sep 28, 2008 11:14 PM
Hey tama,to be honest I'm not sure if it is tangiwai i wouldn't know how to tell i know tangiwai is bowenite not nephrite like kawakawa kaharangi or inanga but i don't know how to tell from looks ,i found that piece in a container of off-cuts and it looked like a beautiful colour so i carved it.The baby tiki actually started out from a moon design i had in mind but the tiki just sort of..fell into the moon and made baby tiki peeking from his crib.The whale is a more recent piece that i took my sweet time on but when i stand back and compare older works to that one i realise taking my time is essential.Steve's gone off for a week but when he gets back on Monday il show you a manaia I'm working on. |
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Benzart
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Mon, Sep 29, 2008 7:53 AM
Quote Hey there guys im Reuben im 15 and i work in a small carving studio here in nz.There hasnt been much stoning going on here so i thought id post few pictures of some of my carvings from awhile back. Ruben, Welcome to TC although you've been here awhile, Man what a Fortunate guy, 15 and working in a carving shop and carving beautiful stuffs liken these? Wow I'm really impressed, Love the baby peeki-tiki and the Whale just blows me away. I Love the finish but the subtle details and shape are just incredible. Stick with it and you will be worrying about plagiarism sooner than you know what it is all about. Really nice stuff and I think you should start your own thread and fill it full of photos of all your stuff! Also don't be afraid to show some progress shots if you have any. |
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GreenCarvings
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Mon, Sep 29, 2008 12:58 PM
Benz:Thank you so much!,il start a thread when my boss returns on Monday. |
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seeksurf
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Wed, Oct 1, 2008 6:09 AM
Great Stuff keep them coming. |
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Tamapoutini
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Mon, Oct 6, 2008 2:05 AM
Just to prove that Paipo and I arent lying; that we really are qualified to do this stuff; that there really is a 'jade skool' that offers qualifications to stoners: A bit like my tour of 'Te Papa' Museum, the following is just a random set of snaps that will probably increase your knowledge very little, but which you may find interesting all the same.. --The CARVING Room: (there are other rooms for drawing/art, Tikanga Maori, business studies, etc, but this is the only one worth documenting here. Four rows of four students, a maximum intake of sixteen per year. One studious lass hard at it already, good to see.. (pics taken before most of the long-haired layabouts have managed to drag themselves out of bed, :lol: ) Each workstation consists of a grinding/sanding/polishing unit (as well as grinding wheels shown, the main grinding unit can also take a jakobs chuck to hold grinding 'points' and rubber sanding/polishing drums).. ..and a handpiece, over a sink. Also a retractable dust-extraction unit which is tucked away behind the grinder when not in use: A selection of diamond-coated grinding spheres, 'mushrooms', turbine wheels & points: A new addition since P'po & I left; diamond belts (lower left) that fit on rubber 'expanding' drums - fast clean up/scratch removal for simple convex forms; frequently used in the mass production industry. Similarly the flat diamond pads at rear: A few inspirational Tiki piccies on the wall: And would you look at that! - the invites for the graduate exhibition that is held at the end of each year: Accepting enrollments for 2009 now (International student fees apply - please PM for details, :lol: :wink: ) |
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tikipaka
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Mon, Oct 6, 2008 2:10 AM
Holy mother, Dang that is so nice. Thanks for sharing.. |
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timidtiki
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Mon, Oct 6, 2008 3:07 AM
Nice pics, Tama, but does anybody ever get to use those machines . . . or are they just for show. The workstations look a bit too clean . . . and much different than those you and Paipo use. |
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Benzart
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Mon, Oct 6, 2008 6:32 AM
Timidtiki, don't you remember when you were last in school(or teaching) that they have these janitor guys who come around every nigh and tidy everything up so its ready for the next class? :P :D :lol: |
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surfintiki
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Tue, Oct 7, 2008 1:40 PM
oh...my...frickin...god. LET ME IN, LET ME IN! |
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GreenCarvings
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Tue, Oct 7, 2008 10:10 PM
And heres the manaia i finished today =) GC. |
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pdrake
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Tue, Oct 7, 2008 10:53 PM
i give up. i offer all my tools to the highest bidder. |
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Toataiaha
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Tue, Oct 7, 2008 11:30 PM
TamaPoutini , head down arse up mate , you ain't got time to be chatting on the internet , Ruben , In the heart of my soul . I would that I had been born in Celtic lands [ Edited by: Toataiaha 2008-10-09 05:39 ] |
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Benzart
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Wed, Oct 8, 2008 12:55 PM
RUBEN, Excellent piece, I'm impressed and Happy you finished it and posted photos. Really Sweet. A bit rough around the edges but barely noticeable. This kind of work earns you Great Respect, Keep it coming. PDrake, 50$ and I'll pay shipping! :P Thats just my first bid. |
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GreenCarvings
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Thu, Oct 9, 2008 12:29 AM
Benz: thank you for your kind encouragement and feedback,after looking back on it i see the head area needed more of a scrub up to smooth it out.constructive criticism is welcomed =) it all helps me get better. And Toataiaha,excuse me for this but.... may i please have a translation?.:blush: |
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Toataiaha
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Thu, Oct 9, 2008 5:44 AM
No worries mate .Ruben , In the heart of my soul . I would that I had been born in Celtic lands [ Edited by: Toataiaha 2008-10-09 05:50 ] |
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GreenCarvings
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Thu, Oct 9, 2008 3:21 PM
Toataiaha,thank you friend for the warm welcome,its put a smile on m' dial :) |
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GreenCarvings
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Thu, Oct 9, 2008 11:18 PM
Another great day at work :D And a couple of peices from a few days ago.A toki,manaia spiral,Maori sun god(carved ages ago),a mere. GC. |
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tikipaka
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Fri, Oct 10, 2008 1:52 AM
Great work and I don't know the first thing about carving anything. I think the only thing I've actually ever carved was a turkey or a pumpkin. :lol: But I do enjoy coming to these post and seeing all this great talent. Love your pieces and thanks for sharing. |
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Benzart
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Fri, Oct 10, 2008 5:16 AM
Excellent stuff GC and Man what an Awesome shop to have at your disposal and to spend the day in every day. What is your job there, are you a carver? Your small pieces are looking great and even though some are "Old" they have lots of great qualities. But, like you said earlier, you need to slow down a bit and be more mindful of your lines and edges taking the time to refine them will give you a perfection you seek. Al in time, just keep practicing, practicing, practicing. I will say this, I'd hate to be your competitor in a few years because even now you would give many artists a run for the money! :P |
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GreenCarvings
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Fri, Oct 10, 2008 12:21 PM
Thanks tikipaka and Benz. |
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kiwishaman
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Tue, Oct 14, 2008 2:25 AM
Awesome GC, I back up what Benz says - at this rate, you are going to be a fab carver. And I LOVE the workshop - lucky you to get a chance to work in such a space (and it looks so CLEAN!). If I am ever down your way - I will have to drop in alright - was supposed to come down this month, but have been unable to get away from the farmyard animal :) Next time. Well done - looking forward to more of your work. KS |