Tonga Room SF (Not) to be demolished?

I'm hearing rumblings that the fairmont is planning to demolish the tower that holds the Tonga Room, which would destroy the Tonga Room

Has anyone else heard this?

Can any of you arcitecture types and historians give some tips on finding out what really is going on so we can do something about this?

We don't want one of the last original and REALLY nice tiki restaurants to be gone!

Locating tiki Tonga Room thread

Polynesiac - putting the "F" back in "ART"

[ Edited by: Bora Boris - Updated title to new status. - 2011-08-12 06:24 ]

DAMN IT, DAMMIT, DAMMMMMITT!!!

That would suck....Never made it there, but always wanted to see it! I hope it is some type of bad joke or rumour....

This seems unlikely. The Tonga Room is located in what was essentially the basement of the original hotel. So based on the rumor it's the original hotel itself (which is a historic location in its on right) not the adjoining tower that would have to be destroyed.

On 2008-11-07 09:44, LOL Tiki wrote:
This seems unlikely. The Tonga Room is located in what was essentially the basement of the original hotel. So based on the rumor it's the original hotel itself (which is a historic location in its on right) not the adjoining tower that would have to be destroyed.

Exactly...and this is where the architecture type people would come in handy. It is in the basement, but it doesn't look like it's in the basement of the original hotel (though the ephemera posted on TC and in the hallways leading to the tonga room would say otherwise), which is why this rumor confused me and I was hoping TC could help.

I'm not sure if the tonga room portion is part of the original hotel and the newer tower (the one that the fairmont supposedly is considering demolishing - I think was built in the '60's sometime) is built on top of where the tonga room is located - which would mean that it all would go.

I don't know about historic titles for buildings and whatnot and what is allowed as far as construction is concerned, but if you're going to demo a tower and this is in the basement, I don't know how you could not demo the basement too.

I sure hope that this is never going to happen, but from what I've heard the fairmont is seriously considering this option.

Anyone work in the city planning area of SF? (or whatever city department it would be?)

Considering that the Tonga Room just underwent a rather costly "renovation" earlier this year, I think it's highly unlikely that it would be demolished so soon after.

Unfortunately, it looks like this rumor has some truth to it. I've been asked by some who are studying the proposal to point out anything "that makes the Tonga Room really stand out in the world of Tiki- either today or when it first opened. If you can point me in the direction of any interesting or unusual information, or people, or history that would be great!"

How about we start a collection here of links to good Tonga Room threads, and post any history we know of it? I could direct them to this thread to make it easy for them.

Mahalo,

Hanford

What is the proposal?

Incidentally - if you walk the hallways of the Fairmont you will find pictorial histories of various aspects of the hotel, including its many restaurants. That might be a good starting point.

[ Edited by: LOL Tiki 2008-11-10 11:18 ]

Wasn't the lagoon in the Tonga Room originally an indoor swimming pool dating back to when the original hotel opened?

I sure hope it's not threatened, as it's gotta be one of the few (if not only) suriving original tiki restaurants situated in an old posh hotel (we've already lost the Beverly Hilton Trader Vic's, which wasn't as old or historic or quite as posh a hotel).

Wow, this would really suck. Glad I got to visit a few times over the summer. I don't know if I'll ever be in San Francisco again, but I would hate to know that place vanished for good. Hopefully it will remain.

On 2008-11-10 12:44, congawa wrote:
Wasn't the lagoon in the Tonga Room originally an indoor swimming pool dating back to when the original hotel opened?

Yes.

I am pretty sure that's a picture of the ______ baths, that were at golden state beach.... Let me post a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutro_Baths

Sutro baths (I Had forgotten the name)

Not sure, but I don't think thats Sutro. I believe thats in one of the display cases on the way to the Tonga Room itself.

Sutro had multiple pools.

And it would truly suck if they destroy that place.

TG
http://www.exotic-tiki-gardens.com

On 2008-11-10 15:11, GatorRob wrote:

GatorRob and LOLTiki and TikiGardener are correct. That swimming pool, the "Plunge" was an older use for the space occupied by the Tonga Room now. In fact, GatorRob's photo is a picture of a photo hanging on the hallway wall outside the Tonga Room. It's not a coincidence that the Tonga Room has a rectangular pool in it, with the little music raft.

While the photo does resemble the Sutro Baths a little, I think those were much much larger. And I tend to trust the historical photos OF the Fairmont IN the Fairmont. But here's a question. Are those windows in the photo, and if so, what direction do they face? One side of that space is underground, so that picture would have to be taken from the back of the (now) Tonga Room looking toward the front. From that orientation, it's possible that there would be windows along the one wall, which would face the bay.

Here's some quoted text from the Fairmont history...

Not long after the Swig purchase, people going to take a dip in the 'Fairmont Plunge' were startled to find themselves aboard the 'S.S. Tonga,' which provided a 'ship-shape' atmosphere, along with exotic drinks accompanied by Chinese food. Not satisfied with that, the S.S. Tonga went into dry-dock, replaced by the Tonga Room, with its musical boat in the middle of the pool, tiki huts under which patrons can enjoy a refreshing Mai-Tai, and an exotic menu reflecting the South Sea & Asian ambiance. A gleaming dance floor provides space for guests to dance; little do they realize that it was originally the deck of the S.S. Forrester, one of the last of the tall ships that plied the route between San Francisco and the South Sea Islands.

-Randy

Dang...I better get my bootay over there and check out the place soon. It looked like such a awesome wonderland in its day.

"Oh waiter, another cocktail please!!!"

[ Edited by: VampiressRN 2008-11-11 05:17 ]

Hanford, how serious is this? What can we do to prevent this from happening?

Suzanne

On 2008-11-10 17:30, aquarj wrote:
GatorRob and LOLTiki and TikiGardener are correct. That swimming pool, the "Plunge" was an older use for the space occupied by the Tonga Room now. In fact, GatorRob's photo is a picture of a photo hanging on the hallway wall outside the Tonga Room.

Just for the record, aquarj is right. That's a pic I took of of the hallway display outside the Tonga Room. It's not the Sutro Baths.

If somebody here was willing to manage the project, I (and I'm sure Sven and others) would lend our expertise in crafting a landmark nomination. Either at the city or state level for the Tonga Room. This is a big deal.

I'll gladly lend my expertise, but somebody has to be the form writer, and know in what form my expertise is needed, WHAT info is going to make a difference.

My mom worked at the Fairmont Hotel in the mid-50s. As a result, every time we visited San Francisco when I was growing up, we would stay at the hotel and dine at the Tonga Room. I have a real soft spot for the Tonga Room.

I am completing an MS in Historic Preservation (actually I'm ABT (all but thesis) for a number of years now and may never complete that darn thing). I live in Chicago and I am not well-versed in California landmarks policies, however, I would be happy to help out in any way that I can. Generally, it is best to pursue landmark designation on the local level. The only laws which can forestall the demolition or alteration of historic properties by private owners are local (county, municipal) landmark laws. These are generally triggered by building permit review and adjudicated by a local landmarks commission. Generally, properties need to be listed prior to the application for a demolition or alteration permit.

The Fairmont Hotel is listed on the National Register of Historic Places, however, the NRHP is merely an honorary designation and provides no protection against alteration and demolition. Even local landmarking typically protects only the facade of the building and not the interior so you would probably need to prepare a nomination form specifically for the interior of the Tonga Room. This could be a difficult argument to make since the TR was recently remodeled and much of the "historic fabric" of the room was lost or altered. You might begin by getting a copy of the National Register nomination form for the Fairmont to see what it covers and whether it describes any of the interiors.

I don't know whether San Francisco requires owner consent for landmark designation or not, but that would be something important to look into. Again, I must emphasize I have not dealt with landmarking in California, but I would assume that San Francisco would be a lot more preservation friendly than Chicago. Good luck and let me know if I can be of any assistance.

On 2008-12-08 17:03, albino tiki wrote:
I don't know whether San Francisco requires owner consent for landmark designation or not, but that would be something important to look into.

This is the most important thing to look into! The designation is very helpful in keeping things from being knocked down, but it also seriously limits what can be done in keeping something standing. It can actually make it harder for an owner to keep the place open.

The best way to keep anything from happening to the place is to keep the barstools full! You have to go to the Tonga Room often, make yourself known, become like Norm from Cheers so that everyone knows your name. And you have to tell everyone you know the same. The more asses in seats the less likely anything will get knocked down. If the place is making money as the Tonga Room the less likely it is to be remodeled into a Martini Bar or whatever the owners think is the newest hottest thing.

The best way to keep anything from happening to the place is to keep the barstools full! You have to go to the Tonga Room often, make yourself known, become like Norm from Cheers so that everyone knows your name. And you have to tell everyone you know the same. The more asses in seats the less likely anything will get knocked down. If the place is making money as the Tonga Room the less likely it is to be remodeled into a Martini Bar or whatever the owners think is the newest hottest thing.

I went to the Tonga twice over a four day period this past August and both nights the place was pretty hoppin'. Even more so on the second night I was there which was a Friday during happy hour. The bar area was packed, customers were at the restaurant tables, the band was playing on the floating band stand, and the dance floor was pretty occupied with both young and old. In short this place was not deserted by any means and looked like it was doing some damn good business for a 70 year old spot. The bottom line is that those in power, these corporate A-holes with the money, don't know what's good for popular culture. They think they do, but the absolutely don't. They may look at one example of success that worked ie. a really 'trendy and hip' martini bar, or what have you and think it's going to work for them. Their other problem is ego and power. These people love to demolish things just for the purpose of demolishing them. In posts like this I keep pointing out the example of what's happening in New York. Character is being substituted for hollow symbols of wealth and cultural genericization. Now that the economy is tanking the white washing of Manhattan is slowly grinding down. There are already reports of condo structures being abandoned due to financial snags. If there is any silver lining in this economy it may be that alot of places like the Tonga have a chance at being saved because right now is the absolute WRONG time to be making financial decisions. In other words 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

I think the one reason many Bay area TC members don't go there more Often is the drinks are not on Par with Trader Vics or Forbidden Island.
Who wants to pay 10 to 15 bucks for a drink that taste bad or no booze in it.
Even if Decor is not perfect, if the drinks are great,TC people will flock to the place.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Even if Decor is not perfect, if the drinks are great,TC people will flock to the place.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

... i don't buy it....if this were true, there would be droves of tiki folk flocking to the chef shangri-la...as it is we practically have to beg folks to come out to support them and their drinks are ten times better and more potent than hala kahiki and most if not all tiki establishments left in the area....and their decor is classic witco/70's era tiki...so where the hell is everyone??

..i do want to add that a certain small percentage of t.c.er's and f.o.m. actually do come out and support the chef and the events hosted by bamboolodge and this is not directed at them.....but it's always the same folk showing up. There are still a few members whose loyalty to anything tiki other than how they can benefit from it i still question, due to the fact they never make an appearance to support the very places they are gonna cry about when they evetually close their doors due to lack of support....

well I was referring to California TC members.
Not Mid west TC members.

Though I hear ya.
there are many TC members out here that I have never seen/met.
or maybe see once a year.
they must have amazing tiki bars at home, and never want to leave them.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

now i hear you too!! seems to be so many tiki folk in our respective corners of the world and yet so many that never seem to get out...practically ever!!....except maybe once in awhile at events like exotica.....

home bars are great and we spend time at each other's places though not so much like we did back in the late 90's, but we also like to get out often as we can....there aren't many events or get togethers here in the midwest so it suprises me that we don't see more folk coming out to support them...

at least i can understand the west coast in that they have something cool going on just about everyweekend!!...plus such close proximity to tiki places and businesses that we just don't have here....basically the west has more of everything when it comes to things tiki and things related to tiki....

and i hate you all for it!!! LOL

Although I have only lived in the bay area for a few years the reason I could see why business may not be booming is because SF has such an influx of places to dine and drink. I don't think that has to do so much with the lack of support from TCers--more with how many options people have as to where to spend their dollars. I am not sure what sort of marketing the Fairmont has done to remind the public that they still have such a great place in their hotel , but it might be a good thing to overhaul to bring in the crowds.

I meet people all the time who have lived in this area years longer than I have and it amazes me that they have no idea that The Tonga Room , and even Forbidden Island for that matter, exist.

On one hand its great to keep these gems low key to avoid huge crowds of people, but on the other hand sometimes you have to market to the masses to bring in the dollars. For a venue like Forbidden Island the fact that its tucked away and always busy (at least when I drink there) is a good indication that they have a great following and word of mouth to fill their bar.

For the Tonga Room they seem to not be so lucky. Maybe after its saved (and it will be I hope!) their marketing strategy needs to be revamped.

Just an outsiders thought :)

It will be a great loss if it goes.

I keep hearing peeps bring up the "Historical Designation" thing and after sitting through years of broadcasting local government rezone petitions and hearing "Ad Nauseum" testimonies and opinions on the subject, I have to say, It's usually a VERY bad idea for the owner and would not add but inhibit value. I would NEVER do it if I was faced with the option.

Tonga Room Hmmmmmm!!!!

Me & the Wahine visted the Tonga Room
for the first time last month. IMO it
was just OK. It was happy hour the place
had a deadsville feel to it, the staff
was really pushing drinks. Decor/vibe
over rated. Like those 40's pics when the
bar was almost up to the pool!

Several days prior went to Forbidden Island.
TERRIFIC. Superior drinks, vibe, atmosphere
to anything @ Tonga Room. HIGHLY recommended!!!!

The best way to keep anything from happening to the place is to keep the barstools full! You have to go to the Tonga Room often, make yourself known, become like Norm from Cheers so that everyone knows your name. And you have to tell everyone you know the same. The more asses in seats the less likely anything will get knocked down.
To that point, here's the tale of my first adventure to the Tonga Room. My fiancee, albino tiki, and I went to the Tonga Room early this fall. As albino said, she's been many times over the years, and her mother really does have some great stories about working at the Fairmont back in the day.

Well, we went to the Tonga Room on a Sunday night. The place opened at 5 or so, with the band due to appear at 8pm. We arrived right around 6 and noticed that there was almost no one in the restaurant. We ask if it were possible to get a seat for dinner. The host proceeds to tell us that he has no tables until 8, coincidentally right when they start charging $5 a head cover for the band. Fine with us, we just head to the bar and proceed to eat there.

Now, another group of folks came in a few minutes later and we overhear the very same conversation. They wanted a table, the host says they're booked until 8. That group left and never returned.

Here's the thing. We sat at the bar sampling many of the drinks on their menu and feasting on some appetizers. We stayed for a couple of hours, right up until about 8. In that time, we saw maybe three tables get seated in the restaurant -- leaving DOZENS of open tables. It seemed pretty obvious to us that the host was funneling all inquiries into 8pm and later reservations just in order to get an extra $5 per person out of the guests. Why would you turn away guaranteed cash in hand at 6 in the hopes of getting a few extra bucks for a later reservation (we have no idea how many other folks came in looking for dinner only to be turned away)? And why open the restaurant at 5 or 6 if you only want people eating after 8? It certainly wasn't for lack of available tables.

As to the drinks - well, the less said, the better, I suppose. Everything was serviceable, and the bartender was pleasant enough, if not particularly chatty or interesting. But the drinks lacked that flair that we all here come to expect from our tropical drink preparations. I was paying strict attention as our man made drinks for us and everyone else. Other than blended drinks, I don't recall anything being shaken. It was pretty much dump ice in the glass, dump liquor on the ice, dump juice/mixer on top of that, slap on a garnish, then serve. No style, no care. Maybe they bring out the second or third string players for Sunday nights, but that's all I have to go on.

After our visit, we were pretty much in agreement that we could get better drinks, better service, and better "tikiness" at any number of other places in preference to the Tonga Room.

The Tongo Room indeed, has a special place in Tikidom, especially considering its age and stature in San Francisco hotel history, but quite frankly the place is really rather depressing to visit. I've been going here off and on for 20 years, initially out of curiosity after hearing about it from my parents and grandparents. The only time I really go here now is if a family or friend from out of town asks me about it and wants to get a drink at an unusual place in the city. The last time I went was probably about a year ago, but it seems more dreary with each visit. The last time we were there, it was about 7:30 on a Saturday and you could shoot a canon through the place. The drinks were awful and expensive and the appetizers seemed like prefrozen Sysco stuff.

I think there is something worth preserving here, but not in its current state. From the photos I've seen of the good ol' days, I'm sure it was quite a novelty. Whether it needs to revert to the way it was in better days or be "reinvented" by someone like Bamboo Ben, the place needs a vision to restore its luster. I don't think this place was ever intended to the high water mark in terms of cocktail lounges, but it deserves better than the tourist trap status it's evolved into. BTW, I've seen this place with the lights way up, and believe me, there's a reason this place is as dimly lit as it is now - eeeeech!

[ Edited by: quickiki 2008-12-09 16:08 ]

The last two reviews wonderfully illustrate the contradictions and dichotomy about what counts in Tiki culture. To NOT enter the Tonga Room in awe each time, because in size and elaborateness it represent one of the last great Tiki temples in America, is a sacrilege in MY book. WHERE does one still find the rain and thunder effect in action? Where does a band float on a raft into the middle of the pool, and where do who have a dance floor build from an old sailing ship? The old Punk in me wants to cry out "F@#k good food, drink, service, and if they serve in Tiki mugs and play Martin Denny!" Tiki is about ART, and artifice, and escaping from the urban jungle. Art is MY nourishment, I eat it, I drink it, and it sustains me. To expect all these "consumer comforts" seems so spoiled and f#%kin' bourgeois to me. The urban archaeologist is able to bear much greater hardships to unearth and view unique Tiki temples. And it is these kind of restaurant reviews that made Tiki restaurants disappear in the first place.

Alas, as a realist I have to agree that Tiki is about the whole experience too, and that the survival of Tiki restaurants, just like any food serving establishments, DEPENDS on the regular customers that have the right to demand culinary goodness and friendly service for their buck. And that the Tonga Room somehow does not make me feel comfortable when there. One observation I have about that is that, while the Chinese owners that took over many Polynesian places and helped them to extend their life by their hard work and frugal work ethic, they often lack a certain talent for hospitality that balances out the obvious need to make a a buck -as evidenced in the host story above.

But that is all besides the point here, the commercial success and number of customers at the Tonga Room is totally inconsequential to the forces that can spend the millions to renovate the whole hotel. To them, the restaurant is just one of many replaceable entities, and I, realistically, see very little hope that my opinion about Tiki being an art form will have any influence on their decisions.

Sven one time in SF for some surf shows I was pretty close to the Tonga Room, I went there, walked around for 5 min, sat in a chair for 5 more min, looking at all the art/decor and then left.
Beacuise iknew the food and drink were not good.

But I knew I needed to go there and see it for myself.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Thank you Sven, for saying it so eloquently. I'm on your raft, for sure. I admit, I only poke my head into Tiki Central - but is this hostile territory for preservationists? A couple of responses drifted toward the rough waters of 'property rights' and most of the rest just bashed the drinks. Neither of which are of interest to me if I was writing a landmark nomination for a place. California has this great thing called CEQA http://ceres.ca.gov/ceqa/ that compels developers or owners (in this case Prince Alwaleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia) trying to demolish a designated property to come up with a better solution. If Albino Tiki or anyone else interested in a nomination wants to work on it, I'll help coordinate. Thanks again, Sven.

Okay, this is all making me just a bit nuts. I'm gonna go there tomorrow on my lunch break or after work and figure out exactly what part of the hotel is above the Tonga Room. I suspect it is directly below the original hotel, not the later addition, but I can't be sure from the Google street view since their view doesn't have the Club One gym sign on the awning outside the closest entrance to the Tonga Room, as it does now. The original post on this thread said the hotel is considering demolishing the newer (1960s) tower, not the original hotel. So if it's in the original building, can we put this to rest, rather than getting everyone riled up over nothing? Let's remember how much money they put into a "renovation" less than a year ago. Would they really just kiss that goodbye?

Sven, I understand your reverence for the art of a great tiki restaurant. But if you'll check other threads about the Tonga Room, I think you'll see that many of us (not all posted) are terribly disappointed in what was lost in the recent "renovation". Foliage no longer hides the pipes that the rain comes from. There is a very industrial looking square of metal pipes surrounding the pool against the newly-fabric-covered ceiling, and the lightning that should accompany the thunder, is not always present, but when it is, you can see the strobe lights that cause it. I guess they couldn't shell out a couple hundred more dollars to hang new plastic plants. There's also that horrible southwesternish fabric they've put on many of the walls, and the red glass that encases the waterfall behind the bar. And sure, it's great that there's a little floating bandstand, but as many have said, the sounds that emanate from that band are a serious detraction from the surroundings. One can only stand to look at a room for so long if the service, food, drinks, and music are all so bad. Oh, and yes, the egg rolls on the happy hour buffet are the frozen Sysco ones. That was recently confirmed by a very reliable source. With a full hotel kitchen available, one would think they could make the egg rolls on site.

I'm ready for "Boo's" and "Hiss's" but I'm not so sure there's much of anything that individuals can do to save an establishment that the owners want to change.

[Understand that I truly would not want The Tonga Room to be lost... I hope to go there one day, and besides, it is our mission to preserve historic tiki landmarks.]

What I'm saying is, 4, 12 or 20 guests committed to visiting a bar once a week is not going to make or break a bar financially. If the market isn't supporting an establishment, it's going under. Tiki-affectionados are not enough; most bars require a wide clientele. History-shmistory, I suspect the ownders want to make money.

Historic designation? Really? Do you want to force management to keep open something they don't believe in? That's a recipe for failure if I ever heard one.

Marketing restaurants is what I do. So can you save the bar by improving the marketing? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I won't go into an evaluation 'cause I've never been there and don't know the market. At least they have something unique, that's a good start.

We all hope that they don't close The Tonga Room. But if the numbers aren't working for them, and they don't have a plan to do better with this concept, it's gonna have to close.

On 2008-12-09 23:01, nichols wrote:
or owners (in this case Prince Alwaleed bin Talal of Saudi Arabia) trying to demolish a designated property to come up with a better solution.

oh shit, well thats a problem right there.
as old that stuff is in the middle east,
I assume that they prob think that stuff that is 50 to 200 years old is just junk, not historic.
Thats prob the same issue with the guy that owns the Beverly Hilton, and wants to tear down the old building that was the BH's Trader Vics.
:(

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Sven, with all due respect, I'm not trying to bury the Tonga Room, but point out that if we are going to save the place as a "temple of Tiki", I just don't see how you can convince enough people the relevancy of the place considering how badly the original vision has been mangled by poor management and marketing. Let's face it, the room is essentially a basement that was converted into a bar in a famous San Francisco hotel. It isn't like a free-standing building that has architectural merit on its own. It's a part of a hotel, period. Getting historical preservation status for a room is going to be a very hard sell as opposed to a building.

As for labeling people's concerns about the lack of quality in the food, drink and atmosphere in the Tonga Room as "bourgeois" is I think misguided and insulting. This is supposed to be a forum for the open discussion of Tiki, good or bad. I would venture to guess that most of the people in this forum don't consider themselves "Tiki urban archaeologists", but view their interest in the subject as a hobby. Your books may have single-handedly opened the eyes of many people to the cultural phenomenon of Tiki and gain an appreciation for the subject, but the bottom line is that probably 99% of the people that visit the Tonga Room are tourists or curious visitors, and if THEY have a bad experience, it doesn't really matter what the tiki community thinks. Bars in hotels are market driven and if they can't make money, they'll go. Corporations aren't known for their sentimentality.

A.) I am sorry, I wasn't aware of the renovations being that bad...Southwestern fabric? Visible strobe lights? Drats, another original site compromised.

B.) I am well aware of the concerns of the majority and I am also understanding of them, as I clearly stated above. But since this an open discussion, my less reasonable, minority, "Punk" self should be able to speak its mind, too. Please don't take that personal, I am merely using yours and others posts, and my conflicted feelings about the premise of Tiki, to point out attitudes towards Tiki culture and stimulate adult discussion about that. Thank you for participating.

On 2008-12-09 23:01, nichols wrote:
Thank you Sven, for saying it so eloquently.

Thanks Chris, I try :D :

On 2008-12-09 21:38, bigbrotiki wrote:
The old Punk in me wants to cry out "F@#k good food, drink, service, and if they serve in Tiki mugs and play Martin Denny!".... seems so spoiled and f#%kin' bourgeois to me.

My wife and my last visit to the Tonga was about 4 years ago, but we had a very pleasant experience and I don't remember the food being that bad (though not top notch either). It wasn't packed (I think it was a week night, so no band), but there were quite a few diners.

However, I think the Tonga/former plunge is either a freestanding separate building right behind the old hotel (built in the late 20's) or in the back of the old hotel. It's not in the 1960's tower, which is in the northeast corner of the property. If it's the tower only that's being affected by demo/renovation, then I don't think the Tonga would be affected.

Brent

Thanks for your clarification, Sven. My observations of the Tonga Room were merely to point out the serious decline of the place, not to dissuade people from visiting it. I think people have this notion of what the place looks like based on sanitized, postcard photos (like the ones shown in this thread) as opposed to the reality of the TR. I would like to strongly urge anyone who has never seen this bar to venture out and experience it at least once, especially now where its fate is rather uncertain. Even with its present warts, it is interesting to someone who hasn't experienced it firsthand. To those of us that have seen it in years past can only shake our heads in disbelief. Even when I first started to go to this place in the 80's, you could see it was on the road to ruin. My folks used to glowingly talk about this place in the 50's and 60's - and I'm sort of jealous to not experience it back then. This place along with the old Bimbo's, the Starlight Room and the Top of the Mark were/are San Francisco landmarks from another era, which are sadly, for the most part, just a memory.

[ Edited by: quickiki 2008-12-10 12:35 ]

On 2008-12-10 12:34, quickiki wrote:
This place along with the old Bimbo's, the Starlight Room and the Top of the Mark were/are San Francisco landmarks from another era, which are sadly, for the most part, just a memory.

Are you talking about the 1951 version of Bimbo's on Columbus? It's still there and still glorious! The girl in the fishbowl still makes appearances, and there are still attendants in the restrooms. They've even started serving food again, although it is usually just a small bar-style menu, as opposed to the complete dinner show menu they used to have. (They generally only do full dinners for private parties.) The decor in that building is amazing with the colorful paintings of Dolfina, the girl in the fishbowl, the heavy velvet and lamé curtains between rooms and on the stages, the wonderful mid-century grillwork along the walls, and that ornate streetside facade with its neon marquee! It is still one of the best places in the city to see a band in a smaller venue (holds just under 700 for a standing show) with the original old-school elegance still very much intact. Here is a link to some pictures of the club in its current condition from the Bimbo's website.

[ Edited by: jentiki 2008-12-10 14:44 ]

JenTiki,
Admittedly, the last time I was in Bimbo's was to see a Tubes show (late 70's or early 80's?, please don't laugh) and back then it was a little shabby around the edges. I think it was closed for much of the 80's, but haven't been back since it reopened. Nice to see it is back in full glory. I always thought the place had huge potential, so now I'll have to check it out in person!

Well, if they ARE shutting down the Tonga, let's have a party
before they shut it down without notice, like they did with the last three other classics that closeed.

... Aye!!!....down with the tonga room i say!!!! down with it all !!!!!!!!! aaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!

What's the genesis of this rumor? Is there any foundation to it at all?

Latest news from the Fairmont, and I'd call it promising:

From the SF Chronicle:

1_23_09

Ever dream about living in the Fairmont Hotel, with its beautiful bay views and easy access to the Tonga Room? You just may get the chance.

Owner Maritz Wolff & Co. intends to do an environmental study of a plan to convert 226 hotel rooms into condominiums in the Fairmont tower, the 1961 addition to the storied 1907 hotel.

Plans call for deconstructing the tower and replacing its rooms with as many as 160 condos, which could range in size from 1,700 to 2,000 square feet. Entire floors - at a whopping 7,500 square feet - also may be available, according to company spokeswoman Susan Sagy.

Sagy declined to name a price for the new digs, but in the past couple of years, new condos in luxury hotels have sold for more than $1 million. And that doesn't factor in the monthly condo fees.

She said the project would not add any height or bulk to the existing tower, which rises from atop Nob Hill at the corner of Sacramento and Powell streets.

The project would take several years to get through the city bureaucracy, and current economic trends may have changed by then, Sagy said. The condo notion also reflects Maritz Wolff's belief that large convention-oriented hotel business has migrated South of Market and that the Fairmont should be geared toward tourists.

"The Fairmont is better as a smaller size, grande dame of boutique hotels," Sagy said.

Discussions about condo conversions at the Fairmont started in 2005 but were tripped up by a temporary moratorium and city legislation limiting the number of hotel rooms that can be converted each year.

• Robert Selna

Conversion of the existing 1961 tower would seem to me to be more optimistic for Tonga than a demolition.