Economy and Tiki

With the economic meltdown creating havoc in most sectors of our society has anyone given thought to how this will affect our few remaining tiki temples of yesteryear?

One side of me thinks that with many of those old businesses already suffering this is just the last nail in the coffin.

The other side of me says that alchohol is a recession proof business (somewhat). People drink when they are happy... and they drink when they are distraught.

Also reminds me of how frivolous a $150 mug seems when some households are struggling to make basic necessities lately.

I searched for other discussions on this and didnt find any. I cant be the only one wondering?

• cant be the only one wondering?*

MM,
I have been contemplating that issue and considered starting such a topic. It's certainly timely whether one is considering the leisure industry or collecting. Alcohol is typically not recession-proof, there's only a few us that consider booze inelastic, and invariably it's a faulty notion those sectors are better investments in such conditions. Systemic risk of any investment will by definition hit all boats with the same lowering tide. Entertainment or leisure dollars are quickly cut in any budget, be it personal or business. Still, if it's a tiki temple of yesteryear said establishment will have survived previous business cycles similar tot he current one. Perhaps they already possess the business acumen to adjust and fight another day, if not flourish. The final nail for some on the edge now? That is definitely the concern I hold for some of favorite places.

I still watch what the biggest and best tiki collectibles do on ebay given my history with that company. I've seen a real drop in listings but many of the "rare" mugs still attract good bids. Selling prices are a bit lower to recent years but the famous mugs still sell fairly well. The rest? That stuff seems to be much lower. eBay is a whole topic in itself with what measures they took to, in my opinion, ruin a classic business model.

We're in a deflationary environment within a credit restricted business cycle and I would hate to be relying on selling any discretionary items right now or to have to sell a major asset. It's the toughest situation I can recall, and the numbers are starting to resemble mid-1970's circumstances. The light at the end of this tunnel is still pretty weak. That said, the tightening of the old personal financial belt is a great thing for a society that relied too long on debt. Wish I could be more optimistic, but not right now.

I still say it though, support your local tiki bar.

midnite

I've been tracking the prices of Shag collectables throughout this month to answer this very question as the economy took a dive - is the bottom going to fall out of the "Shag Market?"

While we are not yet out of February early indications are that Shag items continue to rise in price and if you take the assumption that Shag is a part of the Tiki revival then it still looks quite healthy. Many of the sale prices have been the highest I have recorded. There also seem to be a steady stream of items being posted, along with details of finacial hardship. Interesting and worrying times...

I'll publish these on the Shag Pile soon and update this thread

As far as collecting goes I think most people , even during bad economic times, still will collect items that bring them happiness and an escape from the dregs of daily life. Maybe not to such an intense degree but they will still collect.

No matter how bad my bank account looks (which after 4 months of no work doesn't look so fab) I still hunt for tiki on a weekly basis. Its a nice rush to find something online or in the wild that I can snag for cheap but is a nice addition to my collection. Plus it makes me happy as simple as that sounds.

As far as visiting the local tiki establishments my visits have not been as frequent, but I still try to get out a few times a month. If not for the great cocktails then for the once again nice escapism that sitting in a place like Forbidden Island (my local bar) brings to my week.

The only thing I can think that may be affected is sadly some artists who make their living off of selling their handmade items. However as my ability to buy original work lessens I know that others are in better financial shape then I am who still will be able to buy what they love when they see it.

I am hoping that the few tiki places that may be struggling now work through this time and are able to come through unscathed. I know that having that place to escape is even more important now then ever before.

one werd....

"escape-ism"

Money spent right!

I gotta agree with the escapism concept. The progress in my lounge has been put on hold, but I still manage to scrape together a couple bucks for rum or a CD or a mug or something else to add to my collection. I come home from work, go downstairs, mix a drink, put on some kool tunes & leave the planet.
God Bless America!

I belong to other forums that are hobby specific and they dont seem quite as reluctant to post up topics that are probably of interest to many of us even if off focus for that particular forum.

There are many smart people here I admire and enjoy spending time with. Escapism is ultimately what many of us come here for but to ignore something that really impacts all of us seems kinda silly. Its on our minds... we may as well talk about it.f

Kinda how alcoholism and credit counseling aren't really discussed here either... many of us have known each other too long to pretend...

My best wishes go out to all who are impacted in some way by this irrational state of affairs...

a faltering economy is a self fulfilling prophecy.... especially when consumer spending accounts for so much of our economic prosperity.

its all a shame.

Weren't Tiki Bars born out of Recession, Depression whatever you call it.
As said before it's about escapism, its the perfect antidote.

Escapism is ultimately what many of us come here for but to ignore something that really impacts all of us seems kinda silly

Good point, have to agree. TC, and tiki in general, has always been escapism for me, it's by nature a place to get away from "it". Obviously, it's been a place where the hot-button issues and concomitant internet rock-throwing has fortunately been kept to a real minimum by HL. The current economic conditions are a different animal and do directly relate to our enjoyment of it all. The seemingly now regular closing of Vic's franchises or the current Tonga Room saga is all the proof one needs.

The principle of a self-fulfilling downturn is prominent. Consumer confidence is cratered, people are in "bunker mode". Optimism is tough to find and the willingness to spend on luxuries of any nature at this point is subordinate to the realities of job insecurity and one's 401...rather 201k. One would think it is the best time for escapism, especially if it involves some good cocktails, but I am not sure. My hope is the best places can hang in there and weather this storm.

I cannot help but draw some real comparisons to the current economic situation and to those that existed at the end of the tiki era in the early/mid 1970's. It seems the same circumstances and maladies that helped end that period are looming now. I'd say we could just rely on the Chinese to bail us out, but they did not take too well to the Trader Vic's franchises in their own country.

If nothing else it's making me appreciate what we have even moreso.

Could be worse, could be raining!
midnite

As some of you know, I own 12 restaurants, (not tiki), and our sales were up last year and continue to be up. Escapism? Absolutely! But much of our competition is down-- way down. So what's the difference?

1.)My restaurants have a higher "escapism quotient" and, 2.)we are and have always been considered a VALUE. This is very important right now. While national chains and fancy restaurants and bars are scrambling to convince potential guests that they can be a value, our guests are already convinced that we are.

Factors that add to the "escapism quotient"? Themed decor, food and drinks they can't get at home. A strong emphasis on the alcoholic drinks is important.

We are concluding a deal to purchase five more restaurants. Tiki restaurants should be thriving if they are well run. If they aren't, then in times like these, guests will choose others.

On 2009-02-27 17:03, Monkeyman wrote:
Also reminds me of how frivolous a $150 mug seems when some households are struggling to make basic necessities lately.

I too have been thinking about things like this. I bought a new car recently, and felt lucky to be able to do that since so many people don't even have a home to live in any more. I won't make it to Oasis this year though since I bought the car, but plan on going in 2010. I figure we gotta live for today...never know, I could loose my job and all my worldly possessions tomorrow. I am irritated that I am getting an IOU for my State Income Tax Return...I hope I can sign that over to pay my property taxes!!!

I'll keep buying Tiki items & having parties while I can...I agree in that escapism is important during these times. Also checking into chains and renting a truck to capture an ATM in order to support my needs in the future. :)

We all need some form of esacape but sometimes you can't go to Hawaii and have to go to the Motel 6 in the next town. I might have to give myself a blind taste test and see if a mai tai tastes better from a Steven Crane mug or a Party City one. Where did I put the Mr & Mrs T mix?

I double posted because of internet hiccups. My bad.
~Zero

[ Edited by: ZeroTiki 2009-02-28 09:08 ]

Sometimes it can be as simple as a combination of escapism and comfort... In times of economic or personal stress, people like to have things around them that make them feel better... I work in an independent bay area bookstore, and business is pretty good. Lots of people are buying copies of books that they used to have that they want to go back to, as well as the newest thriller/romance/whatever.

In the end, I figure that, like most of us do, if it makes you happy, it's worth pursuing. Especially when we are spending time feeling down.

Mahalo for listening.
~Zero

[ Edited by: martiki - Spam - 2009-02-28 09:32 ]

On 2009-02-28 04:02, Bongo Bungalow wrote:
As some of you know, I own 12 restaurants, (not tiki), and our sales were up last year and continue to be up. Escapism? Absolutely! But much of our competition is down-- way down. So what's the difference?

1.)My restaurants have a higher "escapism quotient" and, 2.)we are and have always been considered a VALUE. This is very important right now. While national chains and fancy restaurants and bars are scrambling to convince potential guests that they can be a value, our guests are already convinced that we are.

Factors that add to the "escapism quotient"? Themed decor, food and drinks they can't get at home. A strong emphasis on the alcoholic drinks is important.

We are concluding a deal to purchase five more restaurants. Tiki restaurants should be thriving if they are well run. If they aren't, then in times like these, guests will choose others.

Bongo....Just curious. You are a regular poster on here, and seem like you are REALLY into Tiki. How come you haven't tried your hand at a Tiki restauratnt ?

One thing for sure that really made sense to me is your point about offering something that the customer can't get at home. Never really thought of that...such a simple concept, but so true.

Being that you own 12 restaurants, I would think that you would for sure open a successful Tiki restaurant, as it seems that you really know how to run a restaurant business.It's nice to hear from a successful restaurant owner in here, as we all have theories about why the tiki restaurants that have gone out of business have failed, but you probably know better than any of us about this kind of stuff.

I'd love to hear more of your take on this. And...do you think you would ever consider opening a Tiki restaurant ?

Bongo,

You could go Mexi-Tiki!

....now back to our lack of economy...

p.s. Don't Over Extend!

Stay within your means...etc...etc..etc...

TURN OFF THE 24/7 NEWS CHANNELS!

I know as for my girlfriend and myself, we have just tried to be smarter with our money. We still look for the escapism, but we now tend to do things more local, or only do day trips instead of the overnight stuff that use to be the norm. Yesterday for my birthday, we used our year passes at Disneyland instead of going off to Palm Springs for a few days like we normally do. I got my tiki fix in the Enchanted Tiki Room, had a couple of glasses of wine at the Trattoria in California adventure, purchased the new Rongo bowl (using my free money card I received instead of free entrance into Disneyland because I have a year pass) and basically enjoyed the days weather.

As for collecting, as always, I try to only by stuff if I like it, not buy it just because I don't yet have it.

Something I need to start doing is opening all of the drink recipe books I have and to start mixing my own drinks. That will be a big money saver.

I figure if I'm smart with my money the next coming months, I'll be able to go to Oasis. (I am still an Oasis virgin).

On 2009-02-28 10:03, TIKI DAVID wrote:
TURN OFF THE 24/7 NEWS CHANNELS!

Good point.....I've been watching way too much of that lately, and I know it's been affecting me. Need to stop.

I figure if I'm smart with my money the next coming months, I'll be able to go to Oasis. (I am still an Oasis virgin).

Smart Move!! I am doing the same thing about saving money for Oasis. As for being a Oasis Virgin I was last year and it exceeded my wildest hope's. There will be lots of fun stuff to purchase Oh and the people are kind of nice to. :wink:

And as for the 24hr news. Turn it off and put in a Tikiyaki CD!!

One thing people continue to support during hard economic times is VICES,

It seems to me we just have to pay attention a little more and maybe spending on things we really want. However, sitting inside and not spending a dime doesn't seem to help anyone. My money keeps my local fave tiki bar going, a yummy restaurant, airlines, hotels, etc. afloat in these poor times. As long as I have a job, I still intend to spend because frankly that's how our economy is based. This is why our government is trying to infuse vast amounts of money into our day to day economy so that spending will continue and free up money. So it seems to a lay person. Hopefully the businesses I frequent won't have to lay any people off.

On 2009-02-28 10:03, TIKI DAVID wrote:
TURN OFF THE 24/7 NEWS CHANNELS!

These are weird times, I agree with TD

The thing that really cracks me up is how at Home Depot even the surliest employee is now all about customer service, one guy who never even made eye contact is now all smiles and "Welcome to HD"

Tiki has always been about escapism, and Rum and hula and...

I've been wondering about the economy affecting tiki, too. I primarily buy tiki from thrifts, or antique stores if it's not overpriced, or Swanberg's because it's a locally owned business that is a one-of-a-kind. I watch my tiki dollar, but if I go out to a tiki restaurant (last week it was both TV's and Tiki Tom's in the SF area, this week it was Eastern Empire-not tiki, but tiki drinks) I buy what I want within reason. Yes to happy hour, no to dessert, but if a pupu sounds good and I'm starving, I'll go for it before dinner (no to lobster and steak, yes to kalua pork or mahi mahi.) I'm not totally staying home, but still spending where I want it to count (Mickey D's doesn't get anything, but Eastern Empire got 50 clams yesterday.)

I'm also trying to make more cool drinks at home, since I have the Lava Lounge to hang out in. I think an important thing is to hang out with your TC Ohana and try to do the home bar thing like they did back in the day. Escapism is the key. You don't have to bust out your best rum to impress, just stick together, fire up the BBQ and have fun TC style. Pot luck it, if necessary. I still have parties for my scooter club here, but they wouldn't know Appleton from Ron Caballero. I cut costs where I can so I can keep having fun with my peeps. What is better than some good friends, good music, something to snack on and some good drinks?

I know I'm rambling, but what's more important..a Coach bag or a backyard party with your peeps? Which will make you smile longer? Which makes others smile longer?

Just my 2 cents.

:drink:

Tacky

Sign of the times when it takes ten days to fill one page of the Tiki Finds thread.

I'm still out there looking, Trav. It's just tough finding anything around here in the winter. Although, I must admit, last winter, I bought a lot of stuff online. This year, the money just isn't there. I'd rather save what cash I have for local sellers.

We've a business news writer in the market where I live who is always stirring up people's desire for more restaurants, when this area simply can't support them. A little local Italian place goes out of business, and she's baiting with, "Email me what restaurant you'd like to see open at this location!" And there's always someone responding with some chain they've visited in Chicago or Orlando or someplace and they're never coming here and she's instructing her readers to email the CEO of that chain, etc. It's kinda nuts!

Of course, it's a bit self-serving that I don't want more competition in the markets my restaurants are in, but she is really not doing any favors for the little guys with a family run restaurant. They're the ones feeling the pinch. In this economy we need to ask everyone to support the businesses in your community. We don't want anyone going out of business.

If you are at risk of losing your job, save as much money as you can to get you through, should you become unemployed. If you are pretty safe, keep spending at your local tiki restaurants/bars, your local antique store, and other businesses in your area. It's common sense.

On 2009-02-28 10:03, TIKI DAVID wrote:
TURN OFF THE 24/7 NEWS CHANNELS!

self serving, semi self fullfilling prophocey,fear mongering,keep you coming back for more, never let the truth get in the way of a good story, 24/7 news.
again, turn them off! choose not to participate in their dome and gloom, semi-self fullfilling prophecey.
get out, enjoy. it is later than you think.
I leave tomorrow on yet another drive to the Keys and back. spending tons of cash at 'mom & pops' when ever i can, having a ball,i should be running into many of you.(insert big smiley here) laughing... look for me.
"just my opinion ,i could be wrong"

Its hard buying tiki right now for me....I just recently bought TIK, but had to put the I on layaway....You gotta do, whatcha gotta do! :P
Seriously though, I have cut back spending on non-essentials by at least half.

Surely one of the biggest enemies of the old Tiki establishments has been the pressure from new development... eg they can be knocked down to make way for new apartment blocks or bought up by an unsympathetic hamburger chain who proceeds to rip out the original interior. Perhaps one effect of the depression... er, recession may be to make everywhere like Cuba under embargo... little new development and TLC for what already exists.

CHRIS

... Little sign of slow down on the Shag resale front!!!

http://theshagpile.blogspot.com/2009/03/shag-pile-stats.html

... some peeps still got lots of the folding stuff!

Not me though ... these are tough tiki times!
Fully dispelling the myth that I actually own all the items on the ShagPile!

Although I recently managed to get a new job, with better pay, I have cut back on my record-buying on eBay, due to the fact that the exchange rate of the Swedish krona against the US dollar (or Euro, for that matter) is so unfavourable these days. I think it's declined by about 30% over the last few months. Makes me glad I took my chance when the exchange rate was better.

I'm also trying to cut back on the rum consumption, but not for financial reasons.

Going to the tiki lounge is cheaper than going to Tahiti. Now if we only had one around here...

I've been out of work for over a year. I've come close to landing a new job several times but even when it's down to a choice between two candidates I've lost out. I think it may have to do with my age (57). I have been doing free-lance writing and some sales work, although with meager results, and one of the magazines I wrote for just shut down last week.

When it comes to spending money on Tiki I am lucky -- my wife and I finished our basement Tiki lounge just before I lost my job. And, although this may be anathema to denizens of TC, I figure I have all the Tiki mugs I need at present (more than 200) and don't need to buy any more. Quite frankly, I would have nowhere to put them at this point.

My wife and I have been eating at home and visiting less expensive, ethnic restaurants when we eat out. Of course, our home Tiki lounge is a real boon when it comes to entertaining our friends. It might interest you to know that our home Tiki Lounge also has helped friends cut costs by allowing them to hold birthday parties and other gatherings there:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/drzarkov/

My wife has even suggested that we open an after-hours club!

Dr.Zarkov I would stay home too If I had a Tiki Bar basement like that!!! Good luck on the job search.

Great lounge, Dr Z! time for me to really get planning on something similar

[ Edited by: ralphy 2009-03-03 14:08 ]

Thankfully, I still have a job, but I took a slight economic hit back in May. At that time, I would sit and stare at my tiki bar and all the artwork on my wall, but couldn't seem to find some of the same old joy I'd had before. I actually avoided my tiki bar. Slowly, I adjusted to my situation and the old joy is coming back - with a lot less spending! Some posts mentioned "escapism" and I think they hit the nail right on the head.

[ Edited by: Fres-tiki 2009-03-04 05:26 ]

On 2009-03-03 14:08, ralphy wrote:
Great lounge, Dr Z! time for me to really get planning on something similar

[ Edited by: ralphy 2009-03-03 14:08 ]

Hey, before people get too offtrack with names, I thought I should point out that Dr. Zarkov:
http://www.tikicentral.com/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=8668

is not the same as Dr. Z / Doctor Z:
http://www.tikicentral.com/bb_profile.php?mode=view&user=340

Nevertheless, I still agree with ralphy in that Dr. Zarkov has a great lounge.

The greatest investment is what most TCer's already have, your own home bar.
You don't have to drive there and your drinks are half priced.
I'll drink to that!

I picked the worst possible time economically to start my business, but the best time for me personally. I'm hoping that I'll get some crossover from Tiki to the Rockabilly and Pin-up Girl crowd. I think I can also cross over to a little of the surf crowd as well. I've noticed a specific void that I'm hoping to fill - and by doing that, can pull in some customers that are currently not being served. BUT in order to not go broke on the concept, I'm starting really small, doing a few pieces and seeing what the response will be. It's certainly a crapshoot, but building it a little at a time seems to be the smartest way for me to proceed. I can always gear up and produce commercially if the market picks up.
I'm thinking that the best price point to be in is under $50-$75. That seems like an amount that a lot of people can afford to spend without hardship. My merchandise is also usable, not just decorative, so hopefully that will influence people to buy as well. Just my 2 cents worth. :)

On 2009-02-28 17:25, bananabobs wrote:

On 2009-02-28 10:03, TIKI DAVID wrote:
TURN OFF THE 24/7 NEWS CHANNELS!

These are weird times, I agree with TD

The thing that really cracks me up is how at Home Depot even the surliest employee is now all about customer service, one guy who never even made eye contact is now all smiles and "Welcome to HD"

Yah, I went to Home Despot today and was nearly tackled by numerous "business associates"."How are you sir?", and "Can I help you find something?" and "You are awesome sir" and "I love you so much" "Can I buy you a beer sir?". heheh When I walked by another "business associate" and she didn't say anything I fell to the ground and wept like a baby. Not only do I go there now to hear "I love you sir" but I go to find "escapism" too.

[ Edited by: Jungle Trader 2009-03-06 20:36 ]

Coupons, coupons, COUPONS! Seems like everyone is trying to create some business with coupons.

Can't believe I just now noticed this thread...

I am busier then ever. The number of commissions I'm working on right now is the most I've ever had to juggle. "Tiki" bars are opening up at a fairly alarming rate compared to years past since I started Tiki Farm. I just reviewed the numbers over the weekend and the total # of mugs (not commissions but physical mugs) that I've got in varying layers of production (concept/concept approval/sculpting/glaze sampling)... are you ready (and I'm not meaning to toot my own horn but think this puts a pretty good stint on this post)...

41,000

KEEP IT UP HOLDEN!
Don't let the amount of work overwhelm you , this is a good thing !
I was about to add that there seems like some quality bars opening up lately,not where I live unfortunately but it seems that TIKI drinkin' may be on the up slide !

On 2009-04-22 16:33, MakeDaMug wrote:
Can't believe I just now noticed this thread...

I am busier then ever. The number of commissions I'm working on right now is the most I've ever had to juggle. "Tiki" bars are opening up at a fairly alarming rate compared to years past since I started Tiki Farm. I just reviewed the numbers over the weekend and the total # of mugs (not commissions but physical mugs) that I've got in varying layers of production (concept/concept approval/sculpting/glaze sampling)... are you ready (and I'm not meaning to toot my own horn but think this puts a pretty good stint on this post)...

41,000

Go Holden go! That is great, nothing better than hearing good news in bad times, and that about friends!

It will be interesting to see at Tiki Oasis if people will be as free spending on Black Pearls from Tahiti, and Silver Tiki rings this year, like they were last year. I'm hoping so, since we have some stunning pearls we just purchased from our friends in Tahiti that we will be bringing .

Scott

.
skinnydogdesignsCome be our friend

[ Edited by: Skinny Dog 2009-04-24 19:28 ]

[ Edited by: Skinny Dog 2009-04-24 19:31 ]