Don't like it? Do it yourself.

I have often wondered, if I had the money to open my own bar/restaurant, would I attempt to build a comprehensive Tiki monument, a proud homage to a heyday long since past? While merely a fantasy, it’s certainly fun to think about. I go through list of staples in my head, dreaming of all the details that would impress even the most astute design conservative. Towering hand-carved Rarotonga Tikis. Lava waterfalls crashing into sparkling pools streaming off under walkways and seating areas. Perhaps an aviary chirping with exotic birds, greeting newly-arrived guests. A simulated rainfall every twenty minutes, complimented by thundering drums of the pacific, like the Tonga room but more realistic. A starry sky twinkling above a rich green panorama. Colorful landscaping lights shining on garden tikis and palm trees casting long shadows on a booming A-frame sagging in thatch.
I think about wood grains, yes or no on nautical paintings in the restrooms, exotic curios in glass cases and how many drinks exactly should be served in signature mugs. I think about the expense of hiring a greens staff to maintain the plants inside and outside, which like the Mai Kai, would be an enterprise in itself. I consider the higher end touches that would translate to a more expensive and therefore more exclusive experience. Linens in the bathroom and valet parking make for a classier touch, but they also limit the clientele. The least fun comes when I remember there’s food to be served, and the fact that most diners would be attracted to the place on the merits its cuisine. Thai is more contemporary than Chinese, but neither are native foods. As we all know, the native Polynesians had a myriad of cuisine depending on the island, but modern tastes aren’t really that impressed by breadfruit and roast “Puarkee,” nor are they into eating raw fish without soy sauce and wasabi.
Then reality hits when I remember my vegetarian ideals would be compromised by owning a place that would serve steak, pig, poultry and fish, and it’s all over from there. But…I sometimes wonder, in a place like Los Angeles, how a new place, a really thorough, well-intentioned place would go over. Food critics seem to love and hate L.A. for its devotion to design, which they believe is considered sometimes more than the actual menu (see above). However, being the second largest city in the country and the gateway to the Pacific, we do have great restaurants and a willing mass of adventurous diners. With B.H. Trader Vic’s now closed, the true Tiki experience in missing from the southland. Yes, Including San Diego. I really like Bali-Hai, it’s in my top-five, maybe my top three, but it’s just not dark or lush enough for me, nor has it recovered from its 80’s devolution entirely.
As the debate continues about the new painted tikis in the Mai-Kai gardens, and in relation to my aforementioned daydreaming, it seems as if “TikiPhiles” (I hate the word) are straddling the line between discovery, research/ preservation and plain blind devotion to something that survived without their help for many years. As Sven pointed out in his book long ago, Tiki was ever re-invented. From fine dining to tacky strip clubs, the South Seas experience evolved from a little bar in Hollywood to an astounding pop culture phenomenon that thrived for decades.
Obviously, there’s nothing wrong with preservation, but sometimes I feel like this small community is afraid of change. Change sucks sometimes, but it’s a constant, and fighting it will only tire the fighter. If our grandparents never built a tacky, tiki bowling alley complete with painted clown tikis and garish green carpet, how would we have found that last remaining parking lot tiki as a kid and wondered “what the hell is that and where did it come from?”
Yes, I slammed Trader Vic’s when they closed their Beverly Hills doors. In one sense I was pissed because I felt like the company had given up, in another way I was happy because it had decayed into an unpleasant, rip-off experience. Tiki is a dying breed, all but to be bought up or re-packaged. Rather than fight or complain about it, we can take our fantasies, (I know I’m no the only one) put our money where our mouth is (anybody a millionaire entrepreneur?) and build places even better than imagined. Americans are ready to be transported again, and they’re certainly ready to indulge in a unique experience that isn’t located in a strip mall. Just from talking to my Bay Area family, Forbidden Island is all the rage in Alameda, and this coming from people who have no allegiance to our little hobby.
One last thing, I’ll build a Tiki Bar someday if I have the means, but before that, I’m going to do something never before seen in drinking and dining. That’s how fun things like Tiki start to begin with.

You've got the idea brother, its in your blood. I think the same way, "If Only". Keep the dreams alive...

H2O AKA Brian

As much as I love the idea of a resurrection of tiki palaces, I suspect the only ones that would be financially viable as a new business would be those operated in the same vein as Rainforest Cafe. In a way, Rainforest Cafe is the modern day equivalent of the tiki palace. Read this description:

The restaurant is decorated to show some features of a rain forest, including plant growth, mist, waterfalls, robotic animals and bug life. Large marine aquariums are common in most restaurants. Automated water sprinklers, set to specific patterns and coinciding lights are also featured. A simulated thunderstorm occurs every 30 minutes. It is not only simulated rain; in addition, lights flash to look like lightning while thunder is played through high-powered subwoofers, and all the robotic animals panic. The restaurant is partitioned into several rooms by means of rain curtains which fall into basins running along the tops of partition walls and booths. The flow rate of these rain curtains intensifies during the simulated thunderstorms.

Replace the robotic animals and bug life with tikis and thatched huts and you've got a tiki palace. Of course, the biggest difference is Rainforest Cafe is targeted to families with small children. Their success is proof that themed dining is far from extinct, but it has evolved from a place where Mr and Mrs Jones go to unwind in a tropical rum-soaked fantasy world to a place where young familes go to have fun.

And look where Rainforest Cafes are located: Disney theme parks, Mall of America, Vegas, etc. All tourist-driven places with larger than life, over the top themeing already. So Rainforest fits right in. I seriously doubt Rainforest could exist in the middle of a city like the tiki palaces of old did.

I fantasize about opening a tiki palace too. But I know that unless I'm Bill Gates, it ain't gonna happen. Mai-Kai excepted, large themed restaurants that cost tens of millions of dollars to open aren't owned by individuals. They're owned and operated by large corporations. Rainforest is run by a publicly traded corporation with 28,000 employees and annual revenue of over a billion dollars. That just takes the fun out of it for me...

You mentioned Forbidden Island. Of course, they're a completely different animal. I'm glad they're owned and operated by people like Martin Cate who "get it" from our perspective, but I suspect their success is due not to their tiki theme, but because they are a well run neighborhood bar. A tiki themed Cheers "where everybody knows your name". (Forgive the analogy Martin. I wouldn't think of ordering a beer at FI. Do you even serve beer?) And they serve top quality drinks and have received a lot of positive press because of that.

With all that said though, I do hope you open your dream tiki palace someday. I'll be first in line when the doors open. :)

You mentioned the Tonga Room. If that place was just owned and managed by the right people (you know, the ones who "get it"), it would be the best tiki establishment on the west coast, hands down. Can you imagine sipping a top quality Zombie, eating a perfectly cooked filet mignon (oh sorry, you're a vegetarian... make up your own perfect food :)) and listening to Waitiki playing out on that boat? Okay, now I'm dreaming...

I actually own, (with a few partners), 12 high-volume restaurants in the Midwest. They are not tiki, they are Mexican-themed restaurants.

We have full bars, (Cantinas), and we sell a lot of margaritas. (Not a favorite drink among tiki rum drinkers, I understand and it's OK. Me, I love both.)

I dream of opening a Tiki bar. And, when the time is right, I will.

Because I'm in this business to make money and to serve my employees and NOT to simply satisfy my fantasies, I will open a tiki bar in a way that will be very profitable.

How? Well, I believe the Midwest is under-served in Asian food. In our markets we have many Asian-family run, small Chinese restaurants. But we do not have any large, fully-themed, professionally run, fun, full service restaurants with great bars. So my plan is to partner with, or buy out, a small Asian restaurant, learn the food systems, then move it to a large facility in a hot location and satisfy a whole lot of fun people crazy about tropical drinks and Asian food.

The bar, then, will be tropical. I'll call it something like... The Typhooon Bar. I see lots of bamboo, palms, thatched roofs and TIKIs! You see, we're used to doing a healthy percentage of our business in alcohol. I can't envision a bar with a strictly Asian theme, how much saki are we going to sell? It has to be tropical to center it around great drinks and, you know, an island in the Pacific works within the theme, doesn't it?

Cruising around TC, I see examples of older tiki locations that have turned into Chinese small restaurants, so what I'm describing is not so outlandish.

The bottom line is: There is room for tiki bars to make a comeback with new investment, at least I think there is.

If your vision ever becomes a reality, Bongo, all I can say is please hire someone like Martin as a consultant. Serving high quality tropical drinks in a high volume establishment is a very difficult thing to do. Margaritas have 3 ingredients. Zombies around 10. The art of making good tropicals in any bar, high volume or not, is nearly extinct.

On 2007-09-15 19:05, GatorRob wrote:
If your vision ever becomes a reality, Bongo, all I can say is please hire someone like Martin as a consultant.

Rob's a smart guy.

On 2007-09-15 19:05, GatorRob wrote:
If your vision ever becomes a reality, Bongo, all I can say is please hire someone like Martin as a consultant. Serving high quality tropical drinks in a high volume establishment is a very difficult thing to do. Margaritas have 3 ingredients. Zombies around 10. The art of making good tropicals in any bar, high volume or not, is nearly extinct.

Good point GatorRob. Cheap mixes sure don't cut it. Fresh ingredients make a world of difference.

Our on-the-rocks margaritas are world-class and our mojitos are muddled better than any I've ever had at any price. Freshest ingredients, highest quality.

Learning how to make a classic cocktail with the best, freshest ingredients is one thing, selling quantities of them with the needed profit margin is another. So, what to do?

Well, like it or not, we will sell frozen versions of tropical drinks. That is where will get volume. Frozen drinks are still very popular. Our highest quality, freshly made tropical drinks will be for the discriminating guest, willing to pay for it. This duality is how we serve high quality drinks in a high volume bar.

On 2007-09-15 09:27, GatorRob wrote:
As much as I love the idea of a resurrection of tiki palaces, I suspect the only ones that would be financially viable as a new business would be those operated in the same vein as Rainforest Cafe. In a way, Rainforest Cafe is the modern day equivalent of the tiki palace. Read this description:

The restaurant is decorated to show some features of a rain forest, including plant growth, mist, waterfalls, robotic animals and bug life. Large marine aquariums are common in most restaurants. Automated water sprinklers, set to specific patterns and coinciding lights are also featured. A simulated thunderstorm occurs every 30 minutes. It is not only simulated rain; in addition, lights flash to look like lightning while thunder is played through high-powered subwoofers, and all the robotic animals panic. The restaurant is partitioned into several rooms by means of rain curtains which fall into basins running along the tops of partition walls and booths. The flow rate of these rain curtains intensifies during the simulated thunderstorms.

Replace the robotic animals and bug life with tikis and thatched huts and you've got a tiki palace. Of course, the biggest difference is Rainforest Cafe is targeted to families with small children. Their success is proof that themed dining is far from extinct, but it has evolved from a place where Mr and Mrs Jones go to unwind in a tropical rum-soaked fantasy world to a place where young familes go to have fun.

And look where Rainforest Cafes are located: Disney theme parks, Mall of America, Vegas, etc. All tourist-driven places with larger than life, over the top themeing already. So Rainforest fits right in. I seriously doubt Rainforest could exist in the middle of a city like the tiki palaces of old did.

I fantasize about opening a tiki palace too. But I know that unless I'm Bill Gates, it ain't gonna happen. Mai-Kai excepted, large themed restaurants that cost tens of millions of dollars to open aren't owned by individuals. They're owned and operated by large corporations. Rainforest is run by a publicly traded corporation with 28,000 employees and annual revenue of over a billion dollars. That just takes the fun out of it for me...

You mentioned Forbidden Island. Of course, they're a completely different animal. I'm glad they're owned and operated by people like Martin Cate who "get it" from our perspective, but I suspect their success is due not to their tiki theme, but because they are a well run neighborhood bar. A tiki themed Cheers "where everybody knows your name". (Forgive the analogy Martin. I wouldn't think of ordering a beer at FI. Do you even serve beer?) And they serve top quality drinks and have received a lot of positive press because of that.

With all that said though, I do hope you open your dream tiki palace someday. I'll be first in line when the doors open. :)

Rob,
I believe F.I. is a good example of why a small, well-run Tiki bar could have the makings for a sucessful larger restaurant. After all, both Hinky Dinks and Don the Beachcomber both began as small taverns. F.I., as I mentioned before, is garnering lots of praise in the East Bay, and from what I'm told by friends and family outside of Tiki, it is quite popular. For many reasons I'm sure, but firstly, and I'm not speaking for Martin here, i feel consumers aren't used to that level of quality. There was a study done by the Bartenders Association of America in Las Vegas (or something like that, I don't have the article) and the biggest problem they found was inconsistency. There's only about five drinks you can order in a bar that aren't open to interpretation (Martini, Manhattan, Gin Tonic, Old Fashioned, etc) and we as tropical mixologists know more than anybody, Tropical drinks suffer at the hands of bad interpretation more than anything. A Mai Tai in vegas will be different in every hotel/casino bar, guaranteed. And on top of that, they will be made poorly. A good example of this is when I went to Hawaii and had a drink at the "birthplace of the blue hawaiian," the Hilton Hawaiian Village. It was a blue slurpee in a plastic cup made with grain nuetral spirits. Even the Hilton management has given up on taking the time to make the very thing they invented

I have never been to a Rainforest Cafe, but I have walked past one, noted the clientele and facade, and immediately knew it was not going to have good food or drinks. Not to sound like a snob, and I know none of us are high on the Rainforest Cafe, but it has nothing to offer but a place to keep the kids distracted enough while the parents suck down a few over sweetened hurricane glasses full of blue garbage. I do not want Tiki to be re-invented to reflect that image.

What maybe I failed at conveying in my original rant was my interest in the public's, or consumers, desire for themed places that aren't just found in the ghettos of family "destination" areas. Walt Disney gets a lot of credit for "theming," for better or worse (see Disneyization of Society by Alan Bryman), but Don Beach might have been first. I can't say this definitively, but I feel Disney got the "theming" model from Tiki. You can see a heavy Tiki influence in the infant years of Disneyland. More so, both Tiki in its heyday and Walt Disney upheld a strict commitment to excellence, something missing from todays Rainforest Cafes and Saddle Ranches. I am no restaurantuer, but diners respond to quality. And they like to be pleasantly distracted too. That's why the Tonga room survives, as mediocre as the fare might be, its a unique experience exclusive to that location.

Astronaut

[ Edited by: Registered Astronaut 2007-09-16 20:00 ]

On 2007-09-15 11:45, Bongo Bungalow wrote:
I actually own, (with a few partners), 12 high-volume restaurants in the Midwest. They are not tiki, they are Mexican-themed restaurants.

We have full bars, (Cantinas), and we sell a lot

I dream of opening a Tiki bar. And, when the time is right, I will.

Because I'm in this business to make money and to serve my employees and NOT to simply satisfy my fantasies, I will open a tiki bar in a way that will be very profitable.

How? Well, I believe the Midwest is under-served in Asian food. In our markets we have many Asian-family run, small Chinese restaurants. But we do not have any large, fully-themed, professionally run, fun, full service restaurants with great bars. So my plan is to partner with, or buy out, a small Asian restaurant, learn the food systems, then move it to a large facility in a hot location and satisfy a whole lot of fun people crazy about tropical drinks and Asian food.

The bar, then, will be tropical. I'll call it something like... The Typhooon Bar. I see lots of bamboo, palms, thatched roofs and TIKIs! You see, we're used to doing a healthy percentage of our business in alcohol. I can't envision a bar with a strictly Asian theme, how much saki are we going to sell? It has to be tropical to center it around great drinks and, you know, an island in the Pacific works within the theme, doesn't it?

The bottom line is: There is room for tiki bars to make a comeback with new investment, at least I think there is.....

Well, like it or not, we will sell frozen versions of tropical drinks. That is where will get volume. Frozen drinks are still very popular. Our highest quality, freshly made tropical drinks will be for the discriminating guest, willing to pay for it. This duality is how we serve high quality drinks in a high volume bar.

This is by far the smartest thing I have seen written on TC about a Tiki bar start up idea! TCers take note, previous experience, good sound basic business plan, ability to raise capitol and deep pockets to hang in there for the long haul. :wink:

I would also suggest the idea of subletting the restaurant kitchen to an established Chinese family (as they will not fancy being "bought out"- I know a few Chinese restaurant owners and they are very ASIAN family oriented), or maybe one of their long term cooks or lower family members (they are also quite hierarchical) that is looking to break away on his own. This is a common practice overseas and can work well considering the esoteric nature of this style of cookery, techniques, ingredients etc. especially in the midwest.....also they won't want real westcoast Chinese food but General Chou's chicken :P

The part about frozen drinks alone sells me that you have a chance, a very smart and practical compromise that will offer the both of best world; choices, profit, volume AND quality....if you're willing to pay! :lol:

GOOD LUCK! I might even consider your ideas for my own future business plans :wink:

[ Edited by: Rattiki 2007-09-16 21:43 ]

Thanks Rattiki.

I understand the difficulty in buying out family businesses. And really, I'm not interested in their volume, their locations, nor their brand names. It is the expertise with the food that I'm after. (This is, for us, more critical than acquiring drink expertise, which we flatter ourselves to believe we already have.)

A case can be made that the food will be perceived as more authentic, if we have an all-Asian kitchen. How important that is to the guests, I'm not yet sure.

Subletting the restaurant kitchen is not an option for me. I can't give up that much control going forward. I have considered working a deal where our people work in their kitchens for several months to learn the prep, the equipment, the sauces and the variety of dishes. I would likely choose a restaurant outside of one of our markets.

Then, of course, we'll need lots and lots of custom TIKI MUGS! That part's gonna be fun project!

Who's been to a "Kahunaville" restaurant? That's what I would consider the Rainforest Cafe-style tiki restaurant. My wife and I used to go to one a couple times a year (it was far away). Bless me, I enjoyed the cheesy place. The food was good and the drinks were decent enough. The one by us closed a couple years ago. Wish I knew where the decor went....

On 2007-09-15 20:53, martiki wrote:

On 2007-09-15 19:05, GatorRob wrote:
If your vision ever becomes a reality, Bongo, all I can say is please hire someone like Martin as a consultant.

Rob's a smart guy.

Just sucking up for some free drink coupons for our next trip out, that's all.

On 2007-09-17 02:01, Bongo Bungalow wrote:

A case can be made that the food will be perceived as more authentic, if we have an all-Asian kitchen. How important that is to the guests, I'm not yet sure.

I love this thread! :D

My wife and I are HUGE foodies! We were just saying the other night how "spoiled" we are since we live just North of San Francisco, 20 minutes from Berkeley or Napa! We probably have more Michelin Star Restaurants per-capita than any place on Earth! :P
There is a Chinese Restaurant within walking distance of our house that is the best we've had ANYWHERE!! Besides the food quality being better than any others, (an award winning chef), they're "plating" is amazing! :o
Do we think you have to be Chinese to make great Chinese food?
Not at all! All we would be interested in is great food, that is presented beautifully and some great Tiki drinks and we would travel across the country to try it!
We traveled 1,000's of miles before just for a great meal!
I hope your ideas actually lead to fruition!

On 2007-09-17 14:46, Dr.TikiMojo wrote:
I love this thread! :D

You're my kind of people Doc!

Thanks for the encouragement Dr.TikiMojo! My first hurdle is convince my partners that this should be our next mean to growth.

When everyone agrees that there is less risk in opening a new concept in our existing markets vs. opening another of our current restaurants in new markets, we'll be on our way.

I'm making an attempt to get a DYI thing going here in the northwest.

My one big complaint about Polynesian-themed restaurants has always been their food. I like Chinese food, to be sure - but what about Polynesian food? What about the traditional cooking of Tahiti, Hawaii, Samoa, New Zealand, and the other islands? When I go to a restaurant for a Mai Tai and hear Hawaiian music, I don't want Cantonese or Szechuan food.

The point was made earlier that most Americans don't have a taste for taro root, breadfruit or lime-marinated fish. I'd agree with that. I'll add that there's not a lot out there (that I'm finding, anyway) in terms of traditional Polynesian recipes.

I won't go into the whole notion of "what constitutes traditional Polynesian" since it's well known that over the centuries many different culinary influences have made their way into Polynesian culture.

However, my thought is that even with a lack of American-palate-pleasing Polynesian recipes to work from, it is possible to craft a menu of Polynesian dishes that are based upon the foods and spices and cooking methods that would have been available to the islands (up until, say, the 19th century) AND have them taste really good. Different, exotic, but still appealing to the western tongue.

I'm hoping that coming up with Polynesian-inspired dishes in this way will help to revitalize the tiki restaurant biz - and allow me to launch my own. Being a pretty much broke engineer by trade without a lick of restaurant experience to speak of, I know I'm hoping for a lot... but I gotta try.

On 2007-09-17 02:01, Bongo Bungalow wrote:. It is the expertise with the food that I'm after.

Sure, there are plenty of Chinese families running Chinese restaurants but most of them are no more expert with food than the average white families that run roadside diners serving American food. So, it sounds to me like you'd be better served hiring an educated chef (i.e. one with a certificate or degree in Culinary Arts) who specializes in Asian food -- either as a consultant or to run your kitchen outright.

"I'm hoping that coming up with Polynesian-inspired dishes in this way will help to revitalize the tiki restaurant biz - and allow me to launch my own." -Ekomomai-

A few years back I was talking with a guy who had decades of experience in the restaurant supply business and he mentioned a place in the greater Seattle area that had tried a Polynesian menu.

The joint was apparently really nice, the food was good. But it didn't last long because, in his opinion, Polynesian food is something some people will do once out of curiosity and if they like it they'll do it occasionally for variety. Most places don't survive on occasional business from a small fraction of the restaurant going public.

Personally I don't care what sort of food a Tiki joint serves. Ideally it should be good food of some sort, or at least edible. But I don't go to a Tiki joint for the food. I go for the atmosphere. If the food is so-so but the place is cool I'll go back.

I think one of the reasons the Alibi in Portland has survived isn't just because it's a novelty destination for some but because it's a restaurant that appeals to the people in its neighborhood. From my observations the Tiki vibe has little to do with why people are eating there, they're eating there because they like the Alibi's food.

I'm skeptical that a Polynesian based menu could "...help to revitalize the tiki restaurant biz..." I'm pretty sure few Tiki restaurants of the Golden Age had exclusively Polynesian menus. I also don't think America is eager for a Tiki restaurant revival.

The people which a creative Polynesian menu might appeal ("foodies" for the most part) possibly wouldn't appreciate a Tiki environment. At best most people still regard Tiki as a novelty for a once a year "luau" and at worse Tiki is thought of as tacky and tasteless. Those sorts of people might never look past the Tiki decor to consider what the food is like.

You could of course make the place "upscale" Tiki in design but then you'll have lost the appeal to a lot of Tiki fans (not that we're as large a force as we like to think we are).

But the key thing is research (restaurants that have made it), study (restaurant trends), work (in a restaurant), and testing (you might do well to see if your food ideas work from a food cart/wagon or as catering niche before setting up in an expensive brick & mortar operation).

I think a fact we overlook is that a Tiki Restaurant or Tiki Bar was for the most part a Cocktail Culture creation. And what I've noticed over the past few years is that the Tiki Bars that are surviving and thriving have the drinks as the main focus. Thus, if you want the folks to keep coming back for the rum drinks, then the food you choose has to enhance and live harmoniously with the drinks you serve. It's no coincidence that appetizer menus in popular bars of any genre tend to overlap a lot. Its those salty, sweet & savory foods that both taste good with mixed drinks and soak up the alcohol in the stomach so that you can drink more. Thus in a Polynesian bar, you still have crab puffs, egg rolls, short ribs, and chicken wings, only they're given an exotic twist and called "Chicken Wings Mai Kai". Or you wrap tidbits in bacon and give them fake exotic names like "Rumaki" and "Shanghai Chicken" even though they're origins have nothing to do with the Orient. These foods are established and tried and proven, which is why they're still successful.

So even though I like Samoan foods like Fa'a and Palusami, I'm not sure they would meld well with rum cocktails (unless you add more cheese! :) ). I'm convinced that half the reason Chinese Restaurants and Tiki Culture melded so well from the start was that the food went with the drinks.

So what about serving more traditional Polynesian fare in the restaurant-portion of your establishment, ala Trader Vics? I think that's a great option, but you're still going to have a lot of folks who want their ribs and steaks with their mai tais, so if you want to be successful, I think you have to offer those items along with your poisson cru. The tiki bar was never an authentic Polynesian experience - it was a bastard mix of things that already worked, given a new touch of exotic atmosphere and escapism. I think that's why it succeeded and can succeed today. That's why I'm skeptical that a menu of solely traditional Polynesian fare will thrive on anything but a small scale UNLESS you can come up with enough Polynesian-inspired dishes that work well with the drinks. And make sure the drinks top-notch. I'd like to see that happen.

On 2007-09-15 11:45, Bongo Bungalow wrote:
I actually own, (with a few partners), 12 high-volume restaurants in the Midwest.

I dream of opening a Tiki bar. And, when the time is right, I will.

I will open a tiki bar in a way that will be very profitable.

Cruising around TC, I see examples of older tiki locations that have turned into Chinese small restaurants, so what I'm describing is not so outlandish.

The bottom line is: There is room for tiki bars to make a comeback with new investment, at least I think there is.

Mr. Bongo Bungalow,
As a resident of "The Region" (NW Indiana to those of you not familiar with our local parlance) via Chicago and a long-time Tiki fanatic. Let me say simply this:

We need to talk.

-Duke

Today by complete chance (newspapers in the trunk of a friend's car) I came across an October 20, 2004 New York Times article Looks Like Diversity, But Tastes Like Tuna by Frank Bruni which gives some insight on the idea of authentic ethnic menus.

The gist of the article: Restaurants tend to serve the same things because people are familiar with them but each restaurant tweaks it slightly so people feel they're having a different dining experience.

From the article:

*...Fashionable, upscale New York City restaurants these days answer to higher authorities than ethnic fidelity. They kneel before the gods of conformity, and those gods will not be denied their tuna tartare.

...What is sold and heralded as ethnic variety is often just ethnic blending, with a frappéd result that changes little from one restaurant to the next. Behind a comforting illusion of diversity lies an even more comforting reality of sameness.

"All you need are some different condiments, some different lighting and a different-looking menu, and people think they're having a different meal," said Mitchell Davis, a cookbook writer who teaches in New York University's department of nutrition, food studies and public health. "They're not, because they really want to be eating the same things: steak, cod and tuna tartare."

These similar culinary tricks arise from similar conservative impulses: to coddle diners by diluting the exotic with the expected; to guarantee sales and satisfaction by using proven sellers and satisfiers.

"You have to appeal to a mass audience," said Linda M. Japngie, the chef at Ixta, an ostensibly Mexican restaurant on East 29th Street, during a telephone conversation a few months ago. I had asked her what made her menu Mexican when so many of the entrees — yellowfin tuna, baby lamb, wild striped bass, duck, salmon — were not the meats most closely associated with Mexico.

"It's not authentic," Ms. Japngie (pronounced jap-EN-gee) said of the cuisine at Ixta, adding that most restaurant owners, "don't want to take too much of a risk and put stuff on the menu that people won't recognize."

I think that things have changed a bit since that article was written, at least with the higher-end restaurants. As far as the lower-end restaurants and chains go, that is, unfortunately, still dead on. Being married to a restaurant reviewer, I've been to more than my fair share of restaurants of all categories and it's really weird to have deja vu moments at brand new restaurants. On the other hand, higher end restaurants have been putting a greater emphasis on "local" and "authentic" to a point where you sometimes feel that they are going to give you the provenance of each ingredient and recipe on the menu.

As much as it sends shivers down my spine I can only recommend considering a "fusion" menu. And I know this term has been so over-used as to become almost meaningless (Hint: adding soy or teriyaki or wasabi to a dish does make it "fusion"), but perhaps consider taking "authentic" Polynesian dishes and making them more "American" or vice-versa might work.

Or heck, I'm with the previous poster who said that most people come to tiki bars for the cocktails, so serve what sells as far as food goes and stay authentic with everything else. Lord knows, as someone surrounded by "tiki" bars that get absolutely NOTHING right, I'd be happy with a place that gets ANYTHING right!

I think trends have changed since the article but the basic truth is the same: In order to be successful you have to offer people familiar food that's been tweaked just enough to seem different. Or to put it another way: "...Taking"authentic" Polynesian dishes and making them more "American"..."

Going to Tiki Bars/restaurants generally seem to require a compromise of some sorts (bad drinks, bad food, bad music) and I agree it's nice to find at least one element that's done correctly.

The least compromise I've found is at Thatch in Portland which is a really cool joint, has good drinks, and the tiny foods we ate were also good.

On 2010-06-29 23:33, Baron von Tiki wrote:

On 2007-09-17 02:01, Bongo Bungalow wrote:. It is the expertise with the food that I'm after.

Sure, there are plenty of Chinese families running Chinese restaurants but most of them are no more expert with food than the average white families that run roadside diners serving American food. So, it sounds to me like you'd be better served hiring an educated chef (i.e. one with a certificate or degree in Culinary Arts) who specializes in Asian food -- either as a consultant or to run your kitchen outright.

Anyone who's ever been inside a Chinese restaurant should read Jennifer 8. Lee's "The Fortune Cookie Chronicles," which is one of the most entertaining books on food I've ever read. She writes a history of "Chinese" restaurants in the U.S., their export to other countries, as well as the history of the fortune cookie. It also, apropos to this thread, goes into the familial nature of how Chinese restaurants operate, proliferate, and change hands.
One request I'd make of any future Tiki restauranteurs: please keep in mind us old duffers with acid reflux conditions. I've just been diagnosed with it, and am still coming to grips with the new reality of no more citrus juice, alcohol, or anything else with actual flavor. While there's a good chance it will heal in time, there will always be a number of us out here who actually have to think about what we eat & drink before we do it. I'd still love to be able to patronize Trader Vic's & the Mai-Kai, even if I'm stuck with it from now on.

My idea, for what its worth, would be to marry the traditional Tiki joint with the Pan-Asian Restaurants that are currently the rage- the ones that have a smattering of everything from Thai to Sushi to Kung Pao. Throw a few Polynesian items on the menu and you would be good to go.

The ones around here have a vibe that is almost akin to a club, although there are no bouncers or velvet ropes. They are quite large with very trendy decor. They straddle the line between dining and partying.

Seems to me an enterprising person could procure a large space and decorate it like the Tiki places we love. Perhaps make a separate lounge area. Call it Waimea's or something similar with a big neon sign. Play new and old Exotica mixed in with some other tunes for modern considerations (Pink Martini?). But make sure the menu is Pan Asian. And good of course.

The one major problem is aesthetic. Tiki joints are often dark and mysterious. Newer places seem to appeal to peoples' desire to be seen from the outside. I suppose you could work around it.

Just some thoughts. Feel free to laugh or to use the idea. I do not have the talent to pull it off. I do know that we cannot resurrect the past in total. But maybe it can be tweaked a bit for the present.

[ Edited by: JackLord 2010-07-02 13:42 ]

being from the midwest, i too have kicked around the idea of opening a tiki bar....i spent many years in the service industry, worked in bars and even built, decorated and designed some along the way....i have the experience and the talent pool to draw upon from friends still in the industry so staffing would not be an issue....i know bartenders, cooks, wait staff and more...even have band connections for live entertainment if it goes that route....i live in a suburb of chicago about 8 miles outside the city and an authentic tiki bar would be perfect in this area. i always figure that that would be the way i retire....open my own tiki bar and grow old hangin round the place bullshitting with the customers in an old skippers hat....

as for drinks, you can pre mix portions of the drink and add the fresh components as ordered....chef shangri-la does this and it seems to save time and keep the drinks true to form.....a modern tiki bar done right should have no trouble making money....it does not have to be rainforest cafe to appeal to folks....it just has to be honest.... most folks have a sense of a place "feelin real" as a opposed to a place that is just tryin to sell some jive assed half baked concept...those are the places that don't last because pretention can be sensed.....places like tiki ti, mai kai, hala kahiki and more last because they are what they are and have always been and they don't pretend to be anything else...

also- i have postcards of old chinese places from the 50's and the decor and look are totally rad...i would not be opposed to that type of establishment either....kinda asian chic/retro cocktail inspired....i also dig the simplicity of the formosa cafe in L.A......great retro asian look and cozy....definately could use a place like that here.

I also think too many people get hung up on the authenticity of food....hala kahiki serves pretzels.....and if they served cheeseburgers, i don't think people would stop going....in fact it would be a draw. i have begged them to sell cheeseburgers there...getting hung up on the food is limiting....be creative. just cause it's tiki, it doesn't have to be chinese food....that was the novelty when tiki bars first arrived on the scene...it was unique to have polynesian inspired asian food and now it's expected because it is par for the course.......keep it honest and real but make sure all the elemets work together.

hey bongo - how about mexican /asian infused food for your tiki bar?? there are thatched roofs in hawaii and mexico !!

[ Edited by: Tipsy McStagger 2010-07-02 14:55 ]

Would they call the Mexican/Asian food fusion Asican or Mexian?

On 2010-07-02 14:43, Tipsy McStagger wrote:
it does not have to be rainforest cafe to appeal to folks

This thread is somewhat of an embarrassing moment. Rainforest Cafe? What that hell what I thinking?!? I absolutely despise Rainforest Cafe. But, one of my points then was that when you put a description of it down on paper, RFC and themed Tiki restaurants of yore look vaguely similar, but of course with some major desirable differences.

As far as I'm concerned, I agree that as long as the atmosphere (what you see and what you hear) is right and the drinks are right, I'm not too concerned with what the food offerings are. That's just me, but foodies will have a different view naturally.

And yes, in a modern perspective, Thatch gets it right. Certainly no pretension to haute cuisine there. They get the atmosphere, the music and, by and large, the drinks right. The food served is in a supporting role and does that job very well. And that's all I really ask.

On 2010-07-02 12:23, White Devil wrote:
Anyone who's ever been inside a Chinese restaurant should read Jennifer 8. Lee's "The Fortune Cookie Chronicles," which is one of the most entertaining books on food I've ever read. She writes a history of "Chinese" restaurants in the U.S., their export to other countries, as well as the history of the fortune cookie. It also, apropos to this thread, goes into the familial nature of how Chinese restaurants operate, proliferate, and change hands.

Yeah, a lot of "Chinese" food in America was actually invented in America -- including the fortune cookie. Rumaki and Pu Pu platter ? Invented in American tiki lounges. Chop Suey ? Marketed by American Chinese immigrants to white sailors as exotic food when, in fact, it was a way to get rid of left-overs. (If I'm not mistaken, the phrase "chop suey" means "left-overs" in Chinese.)

I had a friend tell me a story: He went into a family-owned Japanese restaurant and noticed that all the staff had Chinese names. When he asked why a Chinese family was running a Japanese restaurant, the response he received was "There aren't too many Japanese restaurants in America. There are hundreds of Chinese restaurants in America. Why would we want to compete with that ?" =)

Pretty funny Baron von Tiki and quite true. I dated someone from Japan for a couple of years and we hit Japanese restaurants quite frequently. They were invariably staffed by Chinese folks (they would always speak to my girlfriend in Chinese which she understood not a word). The exceptions were those quasi-secretive lounges favored by Japanese businessmen and upper-crust expats.

The Hula Hut (hulahut.com) in Austin refers to it's food as "Mexonesian" (Mexican and Polynesian) and it's really good. Sure it panders to the Texans' love of cheese-covered "Tex-Mex," but it works. The decor is "retro-junky-surf-shack-hula-girl," but it works. Large crowds (lots of people, too!), great vibe, and the broad scope of the "theme" lets them get away with fun things like the " Wikiwiki Shrimp PoBoy" and the "Thai BBQ Fajitas."

It seems like restaurants either focus on the food and neglect the atmosphere/experience (most mom-and-pop shops), or go all out on the decor at the expense of the quality of the food (Disneyland). Either extreme makes it hard to want to go back for a second and third visit.

I do think a Tiki restaurant would do well in certain markets, but it would take something between a Tiki-purist (some concessions would need to be made to insure mass appeal) and a generic theme-restaurant opportunist (another bad dollar-store-tiki-themed Denny's would only ruin it for everyone!)

I'd love to see something become of these ideas!

[ Edited by: Tooki_C 2010-07-06 12:54 ]