Burlesque, Surf Culture, Hot Rods, Mexican Wrestling, etc. (pick one) in Tiki Culture

This is not Bilge...

On 2010-08-15 19:58, woofmutt wrote:

Much like monkeys, nautical decor, flamingos, and parrots the big boobed bleach blond bimbo has been a fixture of Tiki bars since Trader Vic first stuck one in a cage and hoisted her over the Seattle Outrigger bar. But are they really Tiki?….

On 2010-08-15 21:36, JOHN-O wrote:

Woofmutt brings up a very good point which also has been on my mind as of late. This is a serious topic worthy of the general forum.

I think the more compelling question is: What the heck does classic Tiki-style have to do with burlesque (or non-Exotica cheesecake) ?

Is this Tiki Revival revisionism or can someone make an articulate case for this?

On 2010-08-16 15:40, Sabu The Coconut Boy wrote:

I'm going to break the Bilge rules and give a John-O a serious answer. Why am I breaking the rules? Because this is Bilge dammit and I can do what I want!

In short, Classic Tiki Style has very little to with Burlesque. It is for the most part, a Tiki Revival assimilation. Same with Hot Rod Culture, Shriners, Surf Culture, Mid-Century Modernism & Rockabilly. In my opinion, I think these flavors of nostalgia taste great together which is why you find EVIDENCE that they overlapped in the past occasionally too, but they were by no means bound together to the extent they are in today's Tiki Revival movement.

For example, if you look at a 1960s guide to night-life in San Francisco, you will find a veritible City of Sin where you could indeed go see burlesque dancers at the tiki-themed Hawaiian Room. However, you could also go see burlesque dancers and strippers at about half a dozen other clubs with other themes, such as the Chinese-themed Forbidden City. Same with the lunch-time lingerie model shows at Tiki Bob's and The Hawaiian in Long Beach. They weren't confined to tiki bars.

I think a trap we can also fall into is confusing Sven's term "Classic Tiki Style" with "Classic Tiki Lifestyle" or "Classic Tiki Culture", which as far as I know from all my research, never existed. There were no clubs of people in the 60s who shared a taste for Tiki architecture. There were no pilgrimages from various cities to meet at the Mai Kai because they were all rum-cocktail afficionados. A Kiwanis Club might have their meeting at the Tahitian Inn one month, but then have it at an atomic-themed bowling alley the next month. A Hot-Rod club might meet at Kelbos for ribs one week and at Pinks for hot dogs the next. If they were living a "Tiki Lifestyle", they wouldn't have known it and there were definitely no rules about it. "Tiki" was just one more fad among many where you could invest a little esapism-time.

So when you ask if Burlesque-in-Tiki is Tiki-Revisionism, you have to ask yourself, are you talking "Tiki Style" or "Tiki Culture"? If you are talking about "Tiki Culture", well it never really existed back then, so the whole Tiki Revival movement of today is essentially revisionism - or maybe more an "inventing" of a lifestle based on a really cool "piece" of 60s culture, ie "Tiki". The same person who went to a Tiki Bar one week might well be the same type of person who went to a Burlesque club the next week and a Shriner meeting the week after that. So a case might indeed be made that Burlesque fits right in to the "Tiki Lifestyle" and there's nothing revisionist about it.

However if you're talking "Classic Tiki Style", ie the historic, cohesive architectural/musical/decorative "style" and asking if Burlesque dancers were a key component of this style, then I would say No. This is indeed revisionism. I would say that the Hawaiian Floor Show with Hula Dancers is definitely part of Tiki Style, but not Burlesque dancers. They were not that common in Tiki Restaurants & bars.

But personally, it doesn't bother me that Burlesque has become part of the current Tiki Revival. To me it's one of the cool pieces of retro-nostalgia that mix well right now. It's more or less from the same era (unlike Jimmy Buffett), and we've taken a lot of the illicit sting out of it, (in my parents' day, good Christians didn't go to tiki bars OR burlesque shows). As long as we're choosing the coolest parts of 60s culture and they ADD to the enjoyment of Tiki as opposed to watering it down, then I'm ready to embrace it.

Similar movements have happened in the past. In the 1950s there was a flowering of "Antique Car Culture". Folks nostalgic for the innocent times of the turn-of-the-century latched on to the Horseless Carriage as a touchstone of this bygone era in much the same way we latched on to Tiki as our touchstone for the 60s. Large clubs of antique car enthusiasts were founded and they would drive their vintage Model-Ts, Packards, etc. en-masse on cross-country trips, visiting historic towns, having picnics where they'd dress in vintage clothes and eat classic American food, going to 1900s-style dances, driving in Founder's Day parades. Disneyland even had a day set aside each year for the antique car clubs where they could drive down Main Street, all in full costume of course. There were magazines devoted to the movement with memberships larger than Tiki Magazine. In them you could read re-caps to events very similar to Tiki Oasis, but taking place in historic town squares where you would listen to barbershop quartets and brass bands playing Souza instead of Surf and Exotica. And this movement wasn't restricted to just the men who restored these cars - it was embraced by women and children too. Costuming, cooking, music and dancing were just as important as mechanics to the lifestyle.

The Antique Car was the touchstone that pulled these nostalgists together, but the movement wasn't restricted or solely focused on the automobile. It revived many of the best parts of turn-of-the-century culture, and the Antique Car was used to weave them together. In the same way, I see the Tiki Bar and the Tiki Restaurant as a lynchpin and a venue that brings many kinds of 50s and 60s revivalists together. I see that as a good thing.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-26 09:08 ]

Dr. Coconut Boy,

That was one helluva dissertation!

DC

Nice post.

I think both, if that is not having my Ray's Mistake, my Tiki Gold and my Tiki Tahitian in the same Tiki Ti order.

Burlesque is "Classic Tiki Style" because it would be consistent with Tiki as a phallic symbol. (BOT p 22)
I think Tiki architecture was, in fact, worshipped, as evidenced by the Tiki Meccas which were in their "heyday" then, but are with us no longer: Kahiki, Hawaiian Hut, etc.

Also, Burleseque is consistent with the Burlesque entertainment of the 60s, with Tempest Storm, Betty Paige, etc.

However, Burlesque certainly is a revival Tiki Culture, just as wearing old skool bark cloth Hawaiian shirts, as opposed to the contemporary silk Tommy Bahama versions are the preference, and favoring Martin Denny as opposed to Jimmy Buffet's Tiki Time selections.

I think the key for the difference between classic Tiki and revival Tiki lies in the fact that the concept of "pop culture" did not exist in the 50s and early 60s -that's why Tiki style could not be recognized as such in its heyday. Pop culture, the lifting up of low art to high art, was introduced with the phenomenon of the Beatles and their generation. Since they pretty much killed Tiki culture, it took some time for the pop culture perspective to come around and discover Tiki culture anew. It is this new "pop culture" perspective that liberally allows the mingling of non-related, other pop facets. Not historically correct, and not to everyone's liking :), but far more lively than pure "historical re-enactment". Simply a different animal. The main thing that I find irksome about it is when it becomes its own thing, with no knowledge of and connection to classic Tiki.

I agree with you bigbro. It's tough to keep the two in harmony.

On one hand I relish the beautiful hybrids that never existed in the 60s: Classic Hot Rod Shows and Monster Movies at Vintage Tiki Drive-Ins! Burlesque Dancers and Surf Bands at Tiki Bars! Oh the sweet pop-culture overload!

On the other hand, as a historian I see the roots of Classic Tiki Style getting lost in the modern amalgamation. That's why I'm always preaching tiki history (though with not nearly as much zeal as you do) so that people get an understanding of what of a unique part of history this was, and so the modern phenomenon doesn't get confused with historical fact. The real Tiki Style was as creative and unlikely as anything pop culture ever produced and there's the danger of it getting watered-down and forgotten with the current mixing of cultures.

Next thing you know someone will start posting 1960's strip club advertisements with tikis.

If Burlesque were Tiki, it wouldn't bother with the nipple tassles :)

We call them pasties in the US, though I have to say I'm rather fond of the Cornish variety as well.

:)

-fm

"I think the key for the difference between classic Tiki and revival Tiki lies in the fact that the concept of "pop culture" did not exist in the 50s and early 60s -that's why Tiki style could not be recognized as such in its heyday. Pop culture, the lifting up of low art to high art, was introduced with the phenomenon of the Beatles and their generation...It took some time for the pop culture perspective to come around and discover Tiki culture anew. It is this new "pop culture" perspective that liberally allows the mingling of non-related, other pop facets. " -bigbrotiki-

I agree with the gist of your idea, but I see differences in terminologies. And as there's pert near no better fun that putting too fine a point on almost unknown cultural flotsam and jetsam...

Pop culture is short for popular culture which refers to music, movies, literature, trends, et cetera that are popular with the masses. The concept of popular culture definitely existed in the 50s and 60s and earlier.

Pop art, the idea of taking common and popular images and using them in "fine" art came about in the 50s and exploded in the 60s.

The concept of lowbrow culture is post 60s, as is retro culture.

What we call Tiki was part of the pop culture of the 50s and 60s. While it definitely wouldn't have been recognized in its heyday in the same way we do today it was a popular trend with elements most middle class Americans were familiar with to some degree and recognized as "Hawaiian" or "Polynesian" or "Island."

The lowbrow and retro movements of recent times are the blenders with which all past popular culture movements get mixed together and it seems anything goes into the blender.

Mr and Mrs White arriving at a backyard luau in Middlestatus, Oklahoma in 1959 wouldn't have been surprised to see torches, mugs and lights in the shape of island gods, people wearing clothes with garish tropical prints, and hearing Martin Denny playing on the record player. But they probably would have been more than a little confused if many of their friends were wearing Fezzes* and there were a couple of burlesque dancers performing off to the edge of the yard.

If most of us showed up at a Tiki party and people were running around in fezzes chasing burlesque dancers in pasties while Reverend Horton Heat blasted from the stereo we wouldn't be too surprised.

Tiki is part of the retro and lowbrow cultures but the tendency of those cultures to grab and mix all sorts of pop culture shouldn't define Tiki.

I don't mind the mixing of pop culture elements in retro culture, but I definitely will bluntly state: Burlesque isn't Tiki. Fezzes aren't Tiki. Hot rods aren't Tiki. Rockabilly isn't Tiki.

*All the White's friends belonged to the Moose Lodge.

On 2010-08-17 07:48, woofmutt wrote:
[
Mr and Mrs White arriving at a backyard luau in Middlestatus, Oklahoma in 1959 wouldn't have been surprised to see torches, mugs and lights in the shape of island gods, people wearing clothes with garish tropical prints, and hearing Martin Denny playing on the record player. But they probably would have been more than a little confused if many of their friends were wearing Fezzes* and there were a couple of burlesque dancers performing off to the edge of the yard.

If most of us showed up at a Tiki party and people were running around in fezzes chasing burlesque dancers in pasties while Reverend Horton Heat blasted from the stereo we wouldn't be too surprised.

Tiki is part of the retro and lowbrow cultures but the tendency of those cultures to grab and mix all sorts of pop culture shouldn't define Tiki.

I don't mind the mixing of pop culture elements in retro culture, but I definitely will bluntly state: Burlesque isn't Tiki. Fezzes aren't Tiki. Hot rods aren't Tiki. Rockabilly isn't Tiki.

*All the White's friends belonged to the Moose Lodge.

I agree with this 100%. I also like some of the elements from retro-culture you pointed out, but you are right. They are not "Tiki", at least not as I am seeing it.

It is interesting to understand the historical precedence for any direct cross-over relationships (rather than just taking it for granted).

I can see it this way:

1. Rockabilly - By the time "Blue Hawaii" came around, Elvis had evolved past Rockabilly. I do see a related Poly-pop connection to today's Tiki Revival in songs like "Rock-A-Hula" and "Slicin' Sand". Bands like the Hula Girls clearly take this as one of their inspirations and run with it.

2. Hot Rods - 1950's Greasers drove hot rods, not people who frequented Tiki bars. Car shows are fun but I'm not aware of any specific Tiki connection.

3. Fezes - This one puzzles me. It would be interesting if someone could cite the first occurrence of the fez in the Tiki Revival. A vintage photo of a Shriner meeting in a Tiki bar would be priceless.

4. Burlesque/Pin-up - Martian-Tiki has provided a lot of invaluable vintage documentation here. (Thank you for pointing that out) And let's not forget about the infamous Tiki Theater in East Hollywood (or is that more of a Porn connection?)

So if we're going to include the above and the Tiki Revival (not Classic style) is indeed a mid-century free-for-all, how about including the following fun things:

1. John F. Kennedy - THE classic Tiki-style President !! He might be a good subject for Tiki art. How about a JFK Tiki mug ??

2. The Cold War - Tiki bomb shelters anyone ??

3. Fads of the time - Tiki hula hoop, yo-yo, and skateboard (clay wheels only) competitions.

4. Honky-Tonk Country Music - I'm a BIG proponent of this one. http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=36656&forum=11&vpost=534279

Does anyone else want to add anything?

:D :D :D

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-17 11:07 ]

On 2010-08-17 10:47, JOHN-O wrote:
3. Fezes - This one puzzles me. It would be interesting if someone could cite the first occurrence of the fez in the Tiki Revival. A vintage photo of a Shriner meeting in a Tiki bar would be priceless.

How's this?

On 2009-01-18 14:48, Sabu The Coconut Boy wrote:
Presenting Doctor Z's latest three-face mug find. A vanity mug that actually connects Shriner culture with Tiki culture.

Searching online, it appears that Mr. Baird was the Potentate for the Fresno, California shriner lodge.

Nice Doctor. Z brings the missing link to the surface again!!

It's nice to see you've moved beyond your "Pirate Bar / Tiki Bar" comparisons John-O and it's also nice to see that not everyone loves lumping all this stuff together. I also enjoy the fact that we're not the only ones in this situation, for example I was working in Las Vegas one week when the National Rodeo was in town, which is huge in Las Vegas and at the same time there was some kind of Old Timey Little House on the Prairie Pioneer convention going on in my hotel and so everyone would ask these people if they were there for the rodeo because they were dressed like cowboys and were making crafts that involved western themes but had nothing to do with the rodeo, by the end of the week they were really annoyed and it was hilarious. :lol:

The Shriner/Fez subject was talked about here

http://www.tikicentral.com/viewtopic.php?topic=23950&forum=1&hilite=shriner

On 2010-08-17 10:47, JOHN-O wrote:
So if we're going to include the above and the Tiki Revival (not Classic style) is indeed a mid-century free-for-all...

We who? Not sure how much of the topic question is looking for real opinions, versus poking and provoking. It's true there were various connections between midcentury tiki temples and the burlesque world, but personally I chalk these up mostly to the fact that we're talking about humans. Titillation is timeless! Anyway, I found Sabu's points well-crafted as usual, and woofmutt captured the essence of the relationship...

On 2010-08-17 07:48, woofmutt wrote:
Tiki is part of the retro and lowbrow cultures but the tendency of those cultures to grab and mix all sorts of pop culture shouldn't define Tiki.

Or figuratively speaking, if you like your salad to have all kinds of stuff in it, that doesn't mean that tomatoes have suddenly become a kind of lettuce. It's just that a lot of people like to eat them together. No need to obscure the unique identities of the things that go into a cultural salad. Blending things that didn't go together before doesn't prevent us from still celebrating unique "styles" and doesn't imply any revision to the pedigrees of these styles.

Sure there are many examples that people looking for definitions might find confusing. Tiki drinks aren't really tiki if you're thinking "tiki = true polynesian culture", but they are if you're thinking "tiki = poly-pop". I think one of the most fascinating things about mid-century poly-pop style is that in many ways it was a moving target in terms of the elements that define it, largely from the intentional efforts of the purveyors themselves actively creating the "mythos" of escapist entertainment. They took so many liberties on the exotic and tiki canvas, creating many inconsistencies that present pitfalls for modern reflection. But that's part of the fun!

-Randy

On 2010-08-17 07:48, woofmutt wrote:
[
Mr and Mrs White arriving at a backyard luau in Middlestatus, Oklahoma in 1959 wouldn't have been surprised to see torches, mugs and lights in the shape of island gods, people wearing clothes with garish tropical prints, and hearing Martin Denny playing on the record player. But they probably would have been more than a little confused if many of their friends were wearing Fezzes* and there were a couple of burlesque dancers performing off to the edge of the yard.

*All the White's friends belonged to the Moose Lodge.

Typically Mr. White does not invite Mrs. White to the parties with his friends that have a couple of burlesque dancers present. (deep thought: Both burlesque dancers and Fezzes have tassels!)

Incidentally the current incarnation of Doctor Who realized he is quite fond of wearing a fez and proclaims to the naysayers "fezzes are cool". Note the recent spike in the search term fezzes. This will eventually result in a new wave of fez culture.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=fezzes&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

[ Edited by: martian-tiki 2010-08-17 16:35 ]

Classic......

Revival.......

picture taken at Tiki Oasis 6.

Is that Dixie Evans in the first 2 photos ?? She's like 85.

She was known as the Marilyn Monroe of Burlesque. "Sensation of the Nation. Hotter than the Hydrogen Bomb"

Revival is fun but Classic is real.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-17 20:11 ]

"Incidentally the current incarnation of Doctor Who realized he is quite fond of wearing a fez and proclaims to the naysayers "fezzes are cool"...This will eventually result in a new wave of fez culture." -martian-tiki-

Except... Even though there were mere minutes before the universe ceased to exist entirely Amy Pond and River Song took some of that precious time to yank the fez of the Doctor's head and blast it into oblivion with a laser gun.

While the Doctor's tastes may have some sway over his viewers I think the opinions of hot time traveling gals will win the day.

On 2010-08-16 22:26, bigbrotiki wrote:
I think the key for the difference between classic Tiki and revival Tiki lies in the fact that the concept of "pop culture" did not exist in the 50s and early 60s -that's why Tiki style could not be recognized as such in its heyday. Pop culture, the lifting up of low art to high art, was introduced with the phenomenon of the Beatles and their generation. Since they pretty much killed Tiki culture, it took some time for the pop culture perspective to come around and discover Tiki culture anew. It is this new "pop culture" perspective that liberally allows the mingling of non-related, other pop facets. Not historically correct, and not to everyone's liking :), but far more lively than pure "historical re-enactment". Simply a different animal. The main thing that I find irksome about it is when it becomes its own thing, with no knowledge of and connection to classic Tiki.

C'mon, BigBro, give credit where credit is due: "The lifting up of low art to high art," as you put it, had nothing to do with The Beatles. Those responsible for that were the proponents of the Pop Art movement -- particularly Warhol and Lichtenstein. Campbell's soup cans and over-sized comic book panels are the iconic examples.

What The Beatles did was give the Baby Boomers their own music which supplanted the music of their parents. And, really, you could argue that Elvis, Chuck Berry, and other earlier rock-n-rollers did this before the Beatles.

No, the real influence was Beatle-mania. This was the first-time that the media paid any attention to young people on a large scale and treated them seriously.

It was those two things (or three, depending on how you look at it), that spelled the downfall of original Tiki.

Yes, the above is the common knowledge.

The notion that one pop trend displaces another suggests that had it not been for the displacing trend the displaced trend would have remained popular forever.

Everything old is new again.

On 2010-08-17 20:08, JOHN-O wrote:
Is that Dixie Evans in the first 2 photos ?? She's like 85.

She was known as the Marilyn Monroe of Burlesque. "Sensation of the Nation. Hotter than the Hydrogen Bomb"

Revival is fun but Classic is real.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-17 20:11 ]

That's Tempest Storm. Performers in the Burlesque revival are just as "real" as they were in the classic burlesque...

:blush: I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I've lead a sheltered small-town life and had never seen burlesque dancers before this weekend at Oasis 10. I've had some time to reflect upon it and have decided it was good clean adult fun. I must say that the children at the burlesque show made me uncomfortable (I think it made some of the dancers uncomfortable too) If those were your children, PLEASE, I am NOT saying you are bad parents, I'm just saying that I have retained some mid-century prudeness :D

So why is burlesque and pin-up part of the Tiki Culture? It is no secret that Tiki Culture is driven by middle-aged men, it is included because it is COOL! That whole mid-century connection thing is just the story we tell our wives. There are lots of mid-century elements that are not included in Tiki Culture such as; bobby socks, poodle skirts, leather jackets, cuffed Levis, greaser hair-dos, do-wop music, soda fountains, barbershop quartets, goldfish eating contests, bubblegum, Dr Pepper, phone booth stuffing contests, Annette Funicello, Leave it to Beaver, Lucille Ball, etc. And why are these mid-century elements not included? Because they are NOT COOL! Keep the burlesque and don't add an Oasis 11 Goldfish Swallowing Contest.

there, that's my 2 cent's worth :lol:

MadDogMike,

1. Annette Funicello is Cool !! And very much part of Tiki (Revival) Culture.

2. Obviously you haven't heard about the "lost" Leave It to Beaver Tiki Episodes.

a. Wally and Eddie Haskell steal a Tiki totem as an initiation into the cool Cavaliers high school club.
b. The Beaver and Larry Mondello get locked overnight in a Tiki restaurant.
c. Unknownst to Wally's and Lumpy's fathers, their Elks club meeting is in a Tiki bar. Ward leaves his jacket there only to have it returned to the family home the next day by one of the cocktail waitresses in her low-cut Hawaiian sarong.

And let's not forget about those "Cool" Leave it Beaver urban legends:

a. Beaver gets killed in Vietnam (false).
b. Eddie Haskell grows up to be porn star John Holmes or Alice Cooper (false).
c. Tony Dow (Wally) has a "relationship" with his on-screen mother Barbara Billingsley (true).

3. Also here's another question. Given that Tiki Culture is about adult escapism and (let's be honest) "good clean fun" drunken behavior, should children even be included in Tiki events ??

There, that's my 5 cent's worth.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-24 08:40 ]

1. Leave it to Beaver ain't cool. It's AWESOME!!!
2. (sent as a PM)

I can see the example of Tiki bar loving folks going to a Burly-Q for a night of fun but I wouldn't think that you would have girls dancing with tassles at a backyard Luau.

Anyone care to discuss why Surf and Tiki should be seperate?

In my reading, study, living, Tiki and Surf culture took place at the same time in the same places.
Think the Gidget movie 1959, surf and tiki together. Also my Mom and Dad in Huntington Beach having backyard Luau's in mid/late 60's spinning Martin Denny then next the Lively One's Lp's for example.

Yes, surf & tiki are pretty much the same to me too. I was born into a surfing family in Huntington Beach. I've always thought of "surf" being fun in the sun and "tiki" as what takes place after dark. I don't know or care how burlesque got thrown into the mix, but I'm glad it did - it's fun too.
Burlesque, rockabilly, tiki, surf, hotrods, lounge, etc are all a good time to me and I will continue to mix and match for good times as long as I care to. I read with interest people's history and knowledge of the past - but that is just that - the past. We're here now, enjoy the present time and culture with a healthy respect for the history of it all.

teresa

On 2010-08-24 13:50, Beach Bum Scott wrote:
Anyone care to discuss why Surf and Tiki should be separate?

Here's a different opinion because it's not just about having fun ( :D )....

I love classic Tiki-Style.

I love classic Surf Music.

That said, I believe Tiki and Surf Music ARE SEPARATE because they originated (evolved) from two completely different sub-cultures.

Tiki was adult cocktail culture. Surf Music was youth beach culture.

Just because they happened during the same time doesn't necessarily make them the same. The early Motown sound also happened during this time but I don't see anyone making a case that it's Tiki Culture (but I do LOVE to hear Motown played in the Tiki Bar).

Yes you can make the case that surfers adopted the Tiki as their talisman, but really I think surfing and Surf Music were two separate things as well. Most Surf Music musicians didn't surf and my guess is by the late 1960's most surfers were into psychedelic Rock and Roll. And wasn't it AFTER the British Invasion (by which time Surf Music had already peaked) that the Surf/Tiki amulet craze took off ??

I often think that the term "Surf Music" was more of a record company marketing gimmick anyway than it was artistic inspiration of the musicians. BigTikiDude told me that the first "Surf Music" musicans were just playing their own original instrumental Rock and Roll. The labeling of the music as a genre came after the fact.

Also if you can make a case that Surf Music (or Surf Culture) plays a significant part in Tiki, that opens up the floodgates to make a similar argument for overall Beach Culture. Against that, original Tiki-Style doesn't stand a chance and would only further be diluted.

Here's another (tongue-in-cheek) way to look at it. By embracing too much Surf Culture in Tiki Culture, we might be celebrating the very "youth culture" impact that eventually lead to Tiki's original downfall. Maybe in order to keep it old-school and "real", Tikiphiles need to start stepping out in the formal dinner attire of the time rather than Aloha-wear.

It really doesn't matter though. This is the circular argument which will never end here on TC. (And I hope it never does end.) Also BTD, keep posting on Surf Music under Events otherwise I'll never know when the shows are. :)

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-24 17:12 ]

On 2010-08-24 15:56, TNT wrote:
Burlesque, rockabilly, tiki, surf, hotrods, lounge, etc are all a good time to me and I will continue to mix and match for good times as long as I care to. I read with interest people's history and knowledge of the past - but that is just that - the past. We're here now, enjoy the present time and culture with a healthy respect for the history of it all.

teresa

That's probably the most intelligent comment i've ever read on here.

If I were born in the 40's I'da hung with Janis, Jimi & Satan's Angel. I reminded Angel of the 60's.

I sure do love the tiki culture.

http://www.greyhoundog.org

[ Edited by: Mr. NoNaMe 2010-08-24 20:34 ]

OK, I knew I read about this somewhere. This whole Surf/Burlesque/(Tiki) connection does have history PRIOR to the Tiki Revival. Writers Brian Chidester and Domenic Priore document it in their amazing book "Pop Surf Culture". (2008, Santa Monica Press)

The L.A. (post-punk) Rockabilly scene of the late 80's and early 90's spawned a great interest not only in mid-century pin-ups like Bettie Page but also the classic burlesque goddesses like Blaze Starr, Lili St. Cyr, and Tempest Storm. This lead to a whole burlesque revival which is still with us today. (This all flew low and under the radar for me. During that time in LA, I was holed up in "punk rock" ghettos like Al's Bar and Raji's.)

This whole new burlesque scene required a soundtrack and so the "Third Wave of Surf Music" was it.

"It was in these surroundings that surf music became the primary vehicle anchoring these many diverse genres, from jazz to punk rock, all essential to the rediscovery of burlesque costuming (and de-costuming). This was a style that had not been seen, or heard, in over 30 years."

One of the seminal compilations that tied this all together was "Las Vegas Grind". (Jeff, do you have this ??)

So in other words, this mid-century cross-cultural stew had its start before the Tiki Revival. It was fueled from the burning embers of LA's post-punk scene, Tiki was absorbed (or included) after the fact. Or at least that's the way it seems to me.

(John-O said)
Maybe in order to keep it old-school and "real", Tikiphiles need to start stepping out in the formal dinner attire of the time rather than Aloha-wear."

I have been saying that all along!

Great suit ATP !! Is that vintage ??

Yes, somewhere along the way, the Tiki Revival seems to have lost touch with its lounge roots and shifted more towards beach culture (or was Tiki ever part of the mid-1990's "Cocktail Nation"?)

At this point you could almost write a book on the different phases of the Tiki Revival.

And if you think about it, the Revival has lasted almost as long as the original classic Tiki-style period. That's kind of weird. Almost like when "MASH" ran longer on TV than the entire Korean War lasted.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-25 18:17 ]

Tiki Revival goes "South of the Border". YES !!!

I know the purists might be cringing but I see this a positive step. Rather than turning into a big "Tiki Beach Party", this brings into the spot light what Tiki (or rather Exotica) evolved into. Yeah I know these days, Mexico isn't on par with Hawaii as an escapist destination but in the mid-1960's I think it still vibed "foreign and exotic".

The Tijuana Brass and Baja Marimba Band were as inauthentic as original Tiki-style was but that's what makes them so mid-century cool. Did you know that Herb Alpert was just a nice Jewish boy from Fairfax High ?? :) To hear that booming brass and Latin vibes "live" just sends shivers down my spine. Also this brings the focus back to 1960's "establishment" pop culture (which Tiki was) and not youth culture. The TJB was HUGE. I'm sure Lucas Vigor approves. Yeah I know I keep flip-flopping but I just LOVE the TJB so much.

This also brings up the opportunity to play more Esquivel (he was from Mexico) and maybe to introduce Mexican Wrestling into the Tiki Revival stew. This has been the missing element if you consider everything else that's been included so far.

Also did you know there's actually Tiki pinatas ?? I'm not sure however if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I'm guessing most will be appalled.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-26 09:39 ]

This photo is actually part of a quicktime movie recorded while on the elevators to fantastic hell at Tiki Oasis 10... so you might be onto something...

(no idea who this is, but if he responded here, that would be funny!

I saw that Luchador! There were two of them. A tag team I suppose. They came up to our room party. Did anyone else see the gorilla?

exactly! would have been great to get a photo of them all together. LOL --I did see the gorilla! Good times...

Oh yes! I approve! And I agree with so many of the comments that have been posted on this subject. Even regarding the clothing...though I am involved with more of the "Hawaiian" side of things, I actually prefer the formal attire and overall "Lounge" culture. I like all things Hawaiian, but prefer it to be more fake then real. Jim Tikiyaki once posted his take on what he thought a "Luau" should be (fake cantonese food, ect) and essentially he was describing the Brady Bunch goes to Hawaii by way of the Tahitian Terrace restaraunt in disneyland!

South of the border! Oh yes! Once again, this is something I love. I can't get enough of Baja Marimba band and Herp Alpert, believeing them to be the logical succesors of Lounge music. It's almost like they kept the scene alive despite the 60's effort by hippy/pop culture to kill it! I would add my favorite, Sergio Mendes in that category as well. Esquivel (one of my favorite lounge artists) was awesome, and there are others that really also exploited the Latin sound in thier "Lounge" music. Sometimes I even find bands you would not think would fit in, such as "Los Panchos"...(check out the work they did with Edie Gorme!) (sic)!
I also would like to see the Marty Lush/Latin Livers perform at the next Tiki oasis. I think that would be a good fit!

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2010-08-26 09:46 ]

Jim Tikiyaki and I have discussed how cool it would be for the band to learn the whole Whipped Cream LP and then play it live in front of an audience. Logistics prevent that from happening but that's my guess. But I have since learned there is a brass band that does just that.

Its quite interesting to think back to my childhood, how all my peers parents bought the Whipped Cream LP (including mine)but as "hip & cool" kids we hated the music only if because it represented an old more sophisticated audience base (equally because it was not longhair and electric.) TJB was everywhere...for a long time. Herb Alpert's TJB has taken on a whole new life during the past twenty years or so. I love the music now...I still find copies in record bins...it always puts a smile on my peers' faces when played. Nostalgia for childhood familiars I reckon? And really this whole revival thing is childhood familiars. Besides everything discussed so far I would lump in (for my sanity) classic Mad magazines, traditional amusement parks, Mr. Machine and Erector sets, 45 rpm records of all genres, Odd Rods, Venice Beach art & beatniks, slotcars and go-cart tracks etc etc etc - just rambling as none of this is the South Pacific and TIKI!! sorry my bad.

On 2010-08-26 10:16, TikiG wrote:
And really this whole revival thing is childhood familiars.

Yes. So true, especially in my case!

But one thing I have found (after listening with more mature "ears" is how good the music really was! No wonder! Most was recorded by top hollywood studio musicians of the time! People like Conde Condoli, Plas Johnson, Shelly Manne...these guys were on everything back then!

http://www.myspace.com/lucasvigor

"yer jus not tuned into the series of tubes yet, let it soak in".

[ Edited by: lucas vigor 2010-08-26 10:39 ]

Amen to the LA session musicians of the era.

Its from late 1950's John-O, its my favorite suit, as is the tie etc.

On 2010-08-25 18:00, JOHN-O wrote:
Great suit ATP !! Is that vintage ??

Yes, somewhere along the way, the Tiki Revival seems to have lost touch with its lounge roots and shifted more towards beach culture (or was Tiki ever part of the mid-1990's "Cocktail Nation"?)

At this point you could almost write a book on the different phases of the Tiki Revival.

And if you think about it, the Revival has lasted almost as long as the original classic Tiki-style period. That's kind of weird. Almost like when "MASH" ran longer on TV than the entire Korean War lasted.

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2010-08-25 18:17 ]

On 2010-08-26 09:01, JOHN-O wrote:
Tiki Revival goes "South of the Border". YES !!!

I know the purists might be cringing but I see this a positive step...

At the risk of repetition ad nauseum, I just wanted to give my take on how this seems to be promoting a divide that doesn't really exist. So-called "tiki purists" aren't the censorial bunch that they're often made out to be. Maybe I'm one of them - not sure. Not to speak for others, but my impression is that purists would say something along these lines...

Knock yourself out! South of the border themes are fun! Mix and blend all you want! Do what you enjoy, and whether that's being narrow or being broad, go ahead! But while you're mixing all those things together, please don't water down the concept of "tiki" by saying all these other things are now included in that concept.

Speaking figuratively again, there's nothing wrong with tossing everything you want to play with into the same pool. But there's little to be gained by making the pool cloudy so you can't tell the tiki toys from the surf toys (or sombreros, or...). In fact, I bet it would be hard to find a "tiki purist" who's ONLY interested in tiki and who DOESN'T enjoy pastimes and pursuits in other related genres.

Tiki purists have fun too! It's not inconsistent for Tiki Oasis or any other event to be primarily composed of tiki lovers while incorporating a theme from another genre. But interpreting any such juxtaposition as a redefinition of tiki itself is the part that some would find kinda sad.

With all that said, I think there's an interesting phenomenon where the power of the TikiCentral community and some large tiki events have formed a magnet for many "scenes". Just from my own little tiny window on the world, the surf and garage scene of roughly 95-04 was highlighted by some big events like the Dionysus Demolition Derby's, Las Vegas Grinds, and Rockarounds. Then it kinda died off (leaving out the whole separate topic of what might be the "fourth wave" of surf music more recently). But in a weird way the tiki world has been a magnet reuniting many people from that scene. And even more amazingly it has had the same effect for NUMEROUS other scenes, including burlesque and other stuff on this thread. True, some of those other scenes like rockabilly have really stood on their own consistently for a long time, but they also seem to overlap with the ever growing tiki world.

So while I'm probably one of the purist types who doesn't want to redefine "tiki" as an all-inclusive thing with less and less of its original identity, it's really interesting that there's something about it that seems to resonate with all these different scenes and revivals that started independently in parallel.

-Randy

Tiki for me is about decompressing from a frenetic modern world which, much as I love it, tends to scream, "Buy this! Do this! Think this!" a bit too much in my opinion. Thus I'm sorry to say that surf music is about the last thing I want to hear in such a context. I want to have some control over my own attention span, to enjoy some relaxed conversation one minute, then drift off and enjoy some sonorous, non aggressive music the next. Surf music makes a great soundtrack to activity like driving or dancing, but when I'm relaxing and trying to mellow out? Not in a million years.

Anyway, just my personal preferences there; not suggesting they carry any more weight than anyone else's. I think we all enjoy creating linkages among cultural artifacts we like, and kind of promoting those linkages to others; it's an arena for personal creativity that makes this stuff more interesting than just collecting and reassembling things as they (presumably) were. So yeah, temporal and geographical proximities between surf music and tiki style can be identified; a historical narrative linking them can be developed. Who can argue with such good clean fun?

One thing I find interesting is that material like this, however, is apparently taboo in contemporary tiki circles:
"Rainy Day Mushroom Pillow," from the 1968 movie, "Psych-Out"
even though the "temporal and geographical proximities" are comparable (sixties California) and the music is, I'd argue, a good deal MORE akin to Exotica than is surf. Even the fashion -- Nehru jackets, proudly worn -- is, to me at least, a rather lovably retro nod to the "exotic east," rather akin to the beloved fez.

I'm not making the preposterous assertion that "The Strawberry Alarm Clock is Tiki!" (though it was great fun to type those words). Rather, I'm suggesting that the broad agreement that surf music is akin to tiki, but something like the above, which I guess is usually labelled "soft psych," is a million miles away from it, is pretty arbitrary, and carries a whiff of groupthink. If anything, I'd personally rather hear music like the above in a tiki setting than surf music.

I agree. very well said. The Neru jacket / fez example is a fine point. Folks pick and choose. In the end who cares? This is fun and only fun. Pick what you like and leave the rest for the rest. I personally like surf for it's tendency to make people dance. Going to a bar to sit and drink is way too boring for me. But that's just me.

On 2010-08-26 17:39, Thomas wrote:
...Nehru jackets, proudly worn -- is, to me at least, a rather lovably retro nod to the "exotic east,"...

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[ Edited by: Atomic Cocktail 2010-08-27 11:14 ]