Triple Old Fashioned?

So...I'm new to mixing tropical drinks, and bar terminology in general. I was reading an article about the different types of glasses used, and the author mentions a triple old fashioned glass, which he says hardly anyone uses "except tiki bars".

I have yet to see any drink recipes that call for such a glass. Do you all know of any, or is this just a mild stab at tiki bars for their reputation of serving stronger drinks?

Good question! I have yet to see an official "triple" glass in the wild, but would not be surprised that, by volume, we in the tiki world have drinkware which cold qualify as such. I can take a reasonable guess that the author's attribution to tiki is likely because a number of drinks in our genre and repertoire are quite voluminous from the standpoint of ounces served in a single drink. We have fruit juices and other flavorings in addition to the booze, and then ice, and sometimes fruit garnishes and fruit chunks to thank for that.

So, I'll try to answer with the following:
"Average sizes" I found in my books for Old Fashioned glasses are:

6-10 ounces for standard Old Fashioned glass.
12-16 ounces for double Old Fashioned glass.

Then, purely by extrapolating volumes from the two-glass pattern above, I'm guessing that 18-22 ounces is logical for a "triple Old Fashioned" glass. This may also approach or correspond to the capacities of various tiki mugs and snifters and other miscellaneous glassware we use to serve a single person.

Remember your last trip to the Mai-Kai? I think that the Mutiny, Hukilau, and Black Magic are served in good-sized snifters, but I don't know how many ounces. Looks can be VERY deceiving volume-wise with drinkware, so I'll take one further guess that a "triple Old Fashioned" glass may not adhere to the extrapolation above.

This is fun food for thought. Let's see what others here think about it and suggest. Cheers!

More info came to light when I did some quick web searches and found that Triple Old Fashioned glasses are available, definitely hard to find, and pricey.

From Williams-Sonoma, the "Dorset" crystal glassware:

• Single: 7-oz. cap., 3 1/2" high. ($71.95 for four)
• Double: 11.5-oz. cap., 3 3/4" high. ($79.95 for four)
• Triple: 15.2-oz. cap., 4 1/4" high. ($119.95 for four)

From Restoration Hardware, the "Boulevard" cut crystal glassware, showing as no longer available:

• 3¾" diam., 4½"H; 20 oz. (No price, sold in sets of two)

My estimated size of 18-22 oz was on target for one product with the triple at 20 oz, but not for the other which states their triple is 15.2 oz which lands it at the top of the "double" size range.

There's quite a bit of leeway with glassware volume, and I'm guessing that this is often the result of the design coming ahead of the finished glass volume. I have observed this with champagne saucers / coupes and with Nick & Nora glasses as well. Both are maddeningly inconsistent and constantly driving me to drink. :)

My conclusion is that you can substitute other glassware for the triple Old Fashioned. You need to know your drink volume, and then choose a different type of glassware to approximate a triple Old Fashioned. The wider and shorter your drink vessel is the closer you will come to approximating a real triple Old Fashioned. I would expect that a handful of "water" glasses may be considered as qualified substitutes if they have a somewhat short and squat appearance. Although, if too short and squat, such a large volume of liquid would be hard to hold, so I would expect triple old fashioneds to have a taller profile. Therefore the thought that a water glass or similar water tumbler could be considered an acceptable substitute.

:drink:

I personally think the author of said article was wrong. Not sure which article but it seems like authors these days do not do enough research before writing about tiki, something they know nothing about.

Simple answer - I would be willing to bet large sums of money that the author meant "Double Old Fashoned" glasses. We in the tiki community use these as the industry standard for serving Mai Tais. I am positive that everyone who makes drinks at home has at least one on hand. I personally have about 50 from various tiki establishments.

A triple old fashoned would be like a pint glass, only beer drinkers use those. My 2 cents. Cheers.

Wow, thanks for the super thorough response, Ace!

I did some digging to try and find the original article again, as I was posting off of memory. I did find it again, and here's exactly what the author said: "A triple old fashioned glass exists and is used mostly in tiki bars, as far as I can tell.
"

Almost forgot... here's a link:
http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2011/03/cocktail-101-glassware-basics-different-types-of-cocktail-glasses.html

I completely agree with you lunavideogames. I have well over 60 books on cocktails, from different eras, and i have NEVER seen a 'triple' old fashioned glass mentioned anywhere.

Yup, a TOF definitely seems rare and elusive! This gives us all a whole new angle from which to pursue thrifting in the loads of spare time we all have.

I still think that some tiki mugs could approximate the volume of a "triple old fashioned" glass. Earlier I gave some volume estimates as a potential basis for this reasoning. And a few web sites currently sell (or did sell) what they label as "triple old fashioned" glasses.

I did some more digging, cuz I just finished a couple nice drinks, and am testing my brain, and I found these fun and happy URLs:

Williams-Sonoma

Restoration Hardware

Replacements Ltd. (Replacements.com)

I noted again the high stated capacities of these - up to 20 ounces in the Restoration Hardware advert. And Williams-Sonoma provides options to look at single, double, and triple, as if they are some sort of "authority" on these. The Replacements Ltd. glass shown is listed with 19 ounces capacity.

There are variances in both capacities and terminology when it comes to glassware. Coupe glasses are a good example, mine vary quite a bit. While the author of the article may have been a bit casual / non-specific, I think a number of our tiki mugs approach or exceed 20 ounces capacity. But I think that a lot of our tiki mugs may be more properly considered a form of "highball" cylinder than any sort of Old Fashioned glass. This is why I say the author was a bit casual, non-specific, careless, etc. with that sentence. Using his approach, though, an empty Foster's can might qualify as a TOF.

It's certainly an interesting discussion. I searched and learned a few things. And someday when I see a TOF in the wild, I'll sell my grandmother to acquire it, then I'll take pictures of it and post them here. (Relax, it's ok, she's dead...)

I am officially announcing a new happy fun personal innovation -- my invention and naming of a QUADRUPLE Old Fashioned glass. It shall colloquially be called a "QOF" and may be pronounced "quoof" or "queef" depending on level of sobriety. Neener, neener! However, it is possible that Foster's may have already beaten me to it if you were to remove the top of their "oil can." A Foster's can holds 24.5 ounces, I think. This might fit nicely into the Quad Old Fashioned capacity classification which I'm hard at work inventing next...

Time for another :drink:! :)

(Edited to fix URLs with better/corrected BBcode)

[ Edited by: AceExplorer 2017-08-15 20:25 ]

Well, I certainly appreciate your diligence and research. Although I'm new to this experience, I too shall keep my eyes peeled for a TOF, if for nothing else than to post a pic here and show off my thrifting savvy.

Cheers, indeed!

Oh. And this might double as your QOF:
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/m/products/dorset-crystal-ice-bucket/?cm_src=YMAN

[ Edited by: tikitube 2017-08-15 20:56 ]

On 2017-08-15 20:55, tikitube wrote:
Oh. And this might double as your QOF:
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/m/products/dorset-crystal-ice-bucket/?cm_src=YMAN

Very nice, LOL!!!!!

The three companies to the links you provided Ace have done nothing but take a product in their existing range, increased the volume of it, and then made up their own name for it. It's not a new category of glass type so the 'best' name for it they could come up with is a variation of the original.

It's like taking a Collins or Highball glass and making a larger version of it. What do you call it? Have you invented an entire new category? Of course not. So what do you do? Come up with some stupid name is what. An 'Extra' Collins, or a 'Higher' Highball.

It's funny how a website dedicated to a specific topic/theme, which has been around for 80ish years, is just hearing about 'triple' old fashioned glasses, especially considering they are used mostly in Tiki bars.

[ Edited by: swizzle 2017-08-16 02:53 ]

On 2017-08-16 02:45, swizzle wrote:
The three companies to the links you provided Ace have done nothing but take a product in their existing range, increased the volume of it, and then made up their own name for it. It's not a new category of glass type so the 'best' name for it they could come up with is a variation of the original.

swizzle, that makes sense, I'm following you. Based on the stated higher liquid volumes, it makes sense to differentiate as long as the volumes follow a logical pattern. This really causes me to wonder -- when is it a highball glass instead of a TOF? If the glass design were to be unwieldy in our hands, then a taller and more cylindrical design is more desirable. And that's a highball.

You made me wonder if I'm actually defending the thing versus just musing out loud. I started looking at this purely out of curiosity, and my goal was the latter, don't know how I'm coming across. But if the concept of a TOF is in fact in use out there, which it just barely seems to be in some remote corners of the interwebs and definitely NOT in the tiki community, my position is that the makers, sellers, users, etc. ought to dang well stick to logically although somewhat rough "standard" sizes for each. Or just call it a Highball if that's what it really is. It would be a shame to see the "coupe-ification" of Old Fashioned glassware, although there is already quite a bit of variation out there. So I kind of hope this remains a background issue. But if not, I think we've got some interesting discussion in this thread.

Yep, standards are always a good thing when it comes to sizes!

Regarding the TOF versus highball, doesn't the old fashioned design offer some benefit for "rocks" drinks that a Collins or highball would not, thereby necessitating the existence of a TOF glass IF it called for that much volume AND rocks? Or would the volume of said drink by its very nature render the rocks ineffectual?

Again, just thinking out loud. Is there a drink on the rocks of that volume? Doesn't sound like it here, at least from a tiki bar perspective. Or is this more of a marketing ploy for disgruntled workers who drop by the bar after work and say, "Tough day at the office...better make it a triple, Sam."

I can see it now...The Triple Old Fashioned...for those (luckily) rare occasions when a double won't quite cure your ills.

Well to me you definitely seem to come across as defending it. Who in hell orders a double of ANYTHING besides a nip of spirits???

"Bartender, could you please make me a double Mai Tai?"."Bartender, could i please have a double Cosmopolitan?". Bartender, give me a double beer?"." You mean a larger glass???"."Yeah".

The old fashioned glass is named so because of the drink. I have no idea where, or why, a double old fashioned glass came from or exists, but regardless, it does and it is the perfect size for a Mai Tai. Technically it's not a Mai Tai glass at all, it's a double old fashioned which happens to fit a Mai Tai perfectly. But no-one asks for a Mai Tai and a half!!!

On 2017-08-16 05:42, tikitube wrote:
doesn't the old fashioned design offer some benefit for "rocks" drinks that a Collins or highball would not, thereby necessitating the existence of a TOF glass IF it called for that much volume AND rocks? Or would the volume of said drink by its very nature render the rocks ineffectual?

A good question for more discussion! You're right about "rocks" drinks. There is an issue with ice which can be addressed by choice of glassware. Shorter and stubbier glassware can make it more difficult for ice to shift and inflict a sudden cascade of ice onto face and into lap of the drinker. Inserting short skinny cocktail straws is intended to help, but to me, does help but is not entirely effective. The skinny straws are not intended for sucking up the drink, but to help stabilize ice in the glass while it is tilted back toward the drinker. Note that the drinker is expected to manage his ice. Some garnishes can help too, like a huge pineapple wedge. Or using an ice ball versus using smaller cubes. Bartenders know that drinkers do not (mostly) sip some things through straws because it's just not done, like whiskies neat or other cocktails on the rocks, so that's not what the straws are there for. But as we head in the direction of more complex cocktails, and especially those served in taller glassware (like tiki drinks,) straws are quite acceptable, or fully expected by the experienced drinker, and in some cases essential to helping manage the risk of icy disaster. Not many are aware of the role a straw is intended to play in managing your drink. For a pro bartender, a good experience often leads to a good or better tip, so straws are often seen as an essential accessory for some drinks.

On 2017-08-16 06:31, swizzle wrote:
Well to me you definitely seem to come across as defending it. Who in hell orders a double of ANYTHING besides a nip of spirits???

I will debate you a bit on this. The bartender makes the choice of glassware based on drink volume. This must take into account the ice cubes and how many (or how few) are used when the drink is made. From the beginning in this thread I have been careful to include references to drink volume in my comments. A Mai Tai is NOT required to be served in a single or double glass, but in an appropriate glass. It is about drink volume. I have to make this decision time and time again when serving various cocktails in coupe glasses or in Nick & Nora glasses. I must know in advance what volume to expect after my shaking, and then well in advance I choose an appropriately-sized glass before I even build the drink in front of you. If I overestimate and use too large of a glass, the penalty to the recipient or customer could be that a bartender adds too much ice, or too much mixer, as a filler which then would dilute the drink. (I work hard not to ever allow an over-diluted drink to be made, I have better ways of fixing if I run into a problem or make a mistake.) I work hard and have learned to avoid this, and I've become pretty dang good at it. We all eventually come to learn that there is a skill and knowledge element involved in making drinks. At some point it is beyond simply reading a recipe and mixing stuff. Mixing and choosing glassware is something you come to learn with time and experience. And by writing this out I'm trying to share the path I have been on. I hope you will see this as such, just some friendly sharing of my experience and take as a result of my experience.

If you were to order a double Mai Tai from me, you have to first insist, and then you would get it in an appropriate glass along with a polite warning about dilution if you were to drink it too slowly.

If you were to order a single shot of something neat from me, you would get an appropriate glass. Even more so if you were to order a double shot.

On 2017-08-16 05:42, tikitube wrote:
doesn't the old fashioned design offer some benefit for "rocks" drinks that a Collins or highball would not, thereby necessitating the existence of a TOF glass IF it called for that much volume AND rocks? Or would the volume of said drink by its very nature render the rocks ineffectual?

What exactly are we talking about here??? Drinks you order at a bar or drinks you make for yourself at home?

How much ice do you want with your booze? Or, how much booze do you want with your ice?

On 2017-08-16 06:51, swizzle wrote:
What exactly are we talking about here??? Drinks you order at a bar or drinks you make for yourself at home?

How much ice do you want with your booze? Or, how much booze do you want with your ice?

I think I may have expanded this to both home bars and pro bars, thinking that both are relevant to the discussion. I have experience with both, and I hope I'm helpful in forwarding the discussion.

I have really been studying glassware more closely over the past two years. I have also been hunting some elusive glassware in thrifts up and down my state of Florida as I travel, vacation, etc. so this topic really piqued my interest and really sparked my desire to chime in and exchange thoughts and ideas with you all. Holy moly, swizzle, you're in Australia, that's cool! :)

Ace!!! Are you are bartender by profession or trade?

And being in Australia does not mean shit. You have no idea what our liquor laws are like.

[ Edited by: swizzle 2017-08-16 07:26 ]

Not by trade, I have a primary career which is different. I serve at sports venues (football stadium and local sports arena) plus at a couple concert venues. Tiki got me started and into a lot of other things. The good thing is I get very in-depth "alcohol training" almost once a year, so I'm very up on liquor laws and good practices. I'm a pretty safe (low-risk) bartender even at my home which is a good thing.

I've seen other posts about liquor laws in Australia, so sorry. We have a few strange things to contend with here too. In Florida, less than a year ago, we overturned a law from back in the 1920's from prohibition. Now we can buy and take home beer in 2-litre "growlers" from local microbreweries. We still cannot buy any distilled spirit more than 151 in proof in Florida, so I have to visit liquor stores in adjacent states, or I order my Stroh's 160 from New York and have it shipped in.

Cheers, mate!

On 2017-08-16 06:31, swizzle wrote:
Well to me you definitely seem to come across as defending it. Who in hell orders a double of ANYTHING besides a nip of spirits???

"Bartender, could you please make me a double Mai Tai?"."Bartender, could i please have a double Cosmopolitan?". Bartender, give me a double beer?"." You mean a larger glass???"."Yeah".

The old fashioned glass is named so because of the drink. I have no idea where, or why, a double old fashioned glass came from or exists, but regardless, it does and it is the perfect size for a Mai Tai. Technically it's not a Mai Tai glass at all, it's a double old fashioned which happens to fit a Mai Tai perfectly. But no-one asks for a Mai Tai and a half!!!

If you mean me, I wouldn't use the term "marketing ploy" in defending something. And I didn't mean to suggest that someone would ask for a "double" Mai Tai, but rather how folks in ordinary bars might ask for a whiskey double.

On 2017-08-16 07:02, AceExplorer wrote:

On 2017-08-16 06:51, swizzle wrote:
What exactly are we talking about here??? Drinks you order at a bar or drinks you make for yourself at home?

How much ice do you want with your booze? Or, how much booze do you want with your ice?

I think I may have expanded this to both home bars and pro bars, thinking that both are relevant to the discussion. I have experience with both, and I hope I'm helpful in forwarding the discussion.

I have really been studying glassware more closely over the past two years. I have also been hunting some elusive glassware in thrifts up and down my state of Florida as I travel, vacation, etc. so this topic really piqued my interest and really sparked my desire to chime in and exchange thoughts and ideas with you all. Holy moly, swizzle, you're in Australia, that's cool! :)

Well, I really appreciate the discussion from everyone. As I said, this is all very new to me, and while shopping for secondhand glassware your insight has helped a lot. Your passion for this subject is apparent, and it is enjoyable to read about your experiences.

I started by reading through Smugglers Cove and noting the most common glasses used in various drink recipes - coupes, footed pilsners, double old fashioned, and highballs. Then, I hit the thrift store for 8 to 10 of each of them. Maybe not the most enlightened way of going about things but most of the glasses were 50 cents and I had an additional 20 percent off coupon. :)

I saw no triples, of course, and in fact I am now thinking that most of the old fashioned glasses I found will hold no more than 10oz. So maybe the doubles aren't even as common as I thought in my neck of the woods.

On 2017-08-16 15:39, tikitube wrote:
I started by reading through Smugglers Cove and noting the most common glasses used in various drink recipes - coupes, footed pilsners, double old fashioned, and highballs. Then, I hit the thrift store for 8 to 10 of each of them. Maybe not the most enlightened way of going about things but most of the glasses were 50 cents and I had an additional 20 percent off coupon. :)

I saw no triples, of course, and in fact I am now thinking that most of the old fashioned glasses I found will hold no more than 10oz. So maybe the doubles aren't even as common as I thought in my neck of the woods.

You're hooked! But you're in good company here. Have fun with it. That's how I started too. And the thrifts are great places to buy glassware at awesome prices. Spend your money on the drink ingredients and make your own syrups and things. Life is good!