The Buffet Rant and what it means.

Please read this whole post before you get your dander up. If, when you're finished, your dander is still in need of an uprising, then so be it...

I've been following the "What's wrong with Jimmy Buffet?" thread with some interest. If I had been the one who posted the original question, my impression of the respondants (and the group as a whole) would be that we're all a bunch of stuffy, closed-minded collectors who aren't in the least interested in having a good time (oh yeah, and we all hate lite beer). Now here's the interesting part:

A. I agree with all the negative sentiments.
B. We're not any of those things
C. Most of us are a HELL of a lot of fun
D. O.K., most of us really do hate light beer, but that's not my point.
D. I have attended a Jimmy Buffet concert or two.

Here's what I'm getting around to; what to these anti-Buffet sentiments say about us and our love of tiki culture (and not about our opinion of Jimmy Buffet's music)?

For me I know exactly what it says: I'm a purist and I love creating immersive environments. The environments I create are usually fun and interesting, but I also like them to be authentic in every way possible (without affecting the fun and interesting part). Experiences are like flavors, I think: each one is interesting and distinct and they should be enjoyed as such. Yes, I freak when maple syrup gets on my sausage. It just ain't right. I like sausage and I like syrup but they belong in separate bites, dammit!

In case anyone is wondering, yes, I am indeed on heavy medication right now, and thanks for asking. They say "alcahol may intensify the effect" like that's a BAD thing...

I for one think the only way to eat breakfast sausage is with some maple syrup on it (and I like syrup on my cornbread too).

I read the "What's wrong with Jimmy Buffet" messages and thought that most everyone presented good arguments as to why they don't care for the whole Parrot Head scene. If there's one thing Tiki Centralites are good at it's analyzing a topic to the finest degree.

True Tiki is a dimly lit thatched bar with glowing orbs hanging from the ceiling, Arthur Lyman vibraphone seeping through the air, colorful drinks served in ceramic tiki mugs, and dark wooden tikis peeking out from behind Monstera Delicosa leaves in the corner..

Jimmy Buffet is a lame Florida "tiki" bar which amounts to nothing more than a crappy patio with no thatch in sight, plastic chairs, beer served in plastic cups, bad "classic" rock on the PA, and drunk mullet-haired over-the-hill partyin' types trying to pretend it's a "lifestyle"

I had no idea what I was starting...I thought it was a fairly innocent question, but I'm kinda new here.
I am enjoying everyone's responses, though. I know they're not arrogant, stuffy, etc., but fiercely protective of the Tiki culture. I'm just learning about it, but I find it rather cool (and I love the exotica music I've managed to track down).
Keep those responses coming!

Maxton, you on Zyban too? Damn this is some crazy-ass stuff.

Dry... Mouth.... Need... Mai Tai....

If you all were going for "authentic" half the crap you probably own wouldn't be in your tiki bars.
I have collected tiki stuff for years and years and have danish modern lamps next to and over my witco bar. It makes me feel good! So does Jimmy Buffet! I can sip on a cocktail or beer at my pool or tiki bar listening to his music and remembering great vacations in the Keys and New Orleans, BBQs, and drunken concerts with friends. Get the big stick out of your ass and do what makes YOU feel good! Isn't that what it's all about-don't let others tell you what to listen to! Give me a break!

I don't think anyone here told anyone else not to listen to Jimmy Buffet... they just said why THEY wouldn't listen to Jimmy Buffett.

PS. Long live Jimmy's Buffet!

Get the big stick out of your ass and do what makes YOU feel good!

Apparent from the large number of postings on this topic, making fun of Jimmy Buffet & commenting on his non-tiki-ness make several Tiki Centralites feel overwhelmingly good!

Perhaps you could present your argument pertaining to how Mr. Buffet does fit in w/ your authentic tiki & danish thingies.

[I was going to end this post w/ a witty(?) comment about big sticks in asses but thought it too distasteful.]

Tiki Chris

[ Edited by: Tiki Chris on 2002-05-21 07:32 ]

who cares what kind of drinks is served at jimmy buffets. mcdonalds say they are in the hamburger business and i know they aint got no freaking hamburgers there. so he isnt tiki, but hes got a hell of a lot going for him. his music is great, he enjoys life and he is filthy rich. alot more than i can say about myself. i enjoy life, but i am musically challenged and i aint got no money. tiki to me is about the bar, the drinks, statues, mask, mugs, pinups and music. but what you determine to be fun should also be included. people who rant and rave over the small things are people who are extremly jealous of others. aloha from Kokomo, Mississippi. pine trees and palms baby!!!!!!!

People, people! Can't we all just get along? The poster of the original message just asked why we bag on JB. The reason is, well.. we are a group of tiki freaks. JB does not fit in with our perception of such. If we were a group of Jimmy Buffett freaks things would be different. Does anyone really think most Jimmy Buffett-philes give a rats ass about exotica? As a guitarist, I think Frank Zappa is one of the best guitarist, composers, arrangers that ever fondled a fingerboard. But most people laugh at FZ. Oh, well. Now, on the count of 3, a big tiki group hug and kiss (no tongues!).

What some Buffetteers don't seem to have grasped is that there is quite a chasm between their idea of Tiki & the Polynesian Pop idea. Nobody is saying that you must adhere to some sort of Tiki-Nazi purity law. People can mix and match as much as they want, but a whole lot of us just have no interest in crappy 80's faux-Tiki-Caribbean cheese. Who wants a t-shirt with an alligator wearing Blues-Brothers sunglasses
on it when you can get a nice bark-cloth from the 60's at half the price?

Nobody minds what music people listen to when they sup their fogcutters (hell, I listen to far more guitar-noise than lounge), but people do have an interest in the detail of Tiki. Sadly what many
Buff-divers think is Tiki makes others crinkle up their noses.

To use the Jimmy's Buffet analogy, it's like the difference between a Crab leg po' boy and a cheap crab spread sandwich.

Trader Woody

...crappy 80's faux-Tiki-Caribbean cheese. ...an alligator wearing Blues-Brothers sunglasses...

...Sadly what many Buff-divers think is Tiki makes others crinkle up their noses...

...the difference between a Crab leg po' boy and a cheap crab spread sandwich...

Trader Woody

Buff-divers? Brillant! I had no idea your were such a wordsmith!

[ Edited by: Tiki Chris on 2002-05-21 09:47 ]

What's wrong with tongues?!

Sorry, just hadda do that...

The meds have worn off...

:sheckymug:

My reason for trying to create an authentic tiki bar in my home is simple. I wasn't alive during the tiki heyday and I live about 1,000 miles from a good tiki bar - I'm recreating a place I've never physically been but have visited hundreds of times when listenening to Martin Denny,Les Baxter, etc.

If I want to listen to Jimmy Buffet in a faux tropical setting all I need to do is hop in the car, drive 20 miles to Baltimore and take my choice of unhospitable, drunken frat boy bars. No thanks...

If you want to be reminded of an exotic tiki paradise listen to exotica - if you want to recreate a night vomiting margaritas in a urine soaked men's room in Key West or losing consciousness in a grotesque port-a-pot in the parking lot of some concert venue - then crank up good ole' Jimmy!! :P
Just my opinion...

Johntiki :drink:

[ Edited by: johntiki on 2002-05-21 17:30 ]

"If you want to be reminded of an exotic tiki paradise listen to exotica - if you want to recreate a night vomiting margaritas in a urine soaked men's room in Key West or losing consciousness in a grotesque port-a-pot in the parking lot of some concert venue - then crank up good ole' Jimmy!! "

HAHAHAHA

That's a CLASSIC!

For most of us, the exotica of Martin Denny and the 40's-60's lounge and classic ploynesian music is as far away, romantic and mystical as the "little island in the Pacific."

On the other hand, Jimmy Buffett is as close as the nearest college campus bar, or even closer.

It's not just some knick-knacks we savor, but the exotic lands and attitudes that come with it. That's what brought ex-GI's to Polynesian bars and restaurants in NYC and Chicago, and elsewhere in the 50's, and that's what we crave and search out and try to recreate.

I suppose there is a group among us that is more about Key West and Parrots than Maui and marimbas. But this whole thing was born of the first group. The second is late to the party. And the first group looks at the second as crashers. When one of the second group requests Buffett at the tiki bar, they are revealed.

I'd say a good many don't hate Buffett, but they don't see his music as pertaining to the Polynesian Pop mythos.

On 2002-05-21 17:29, johntiki wrote:
My reason for trying to create an authentic tiki bar in my home is simple. I wasn't alive during the tiki heyday and I live about 1,000 miles from a good tiki bar - I'm recreating a place I've never physically been but have visited hundreds of times when listenening to Martin Denny,Les Baxter, etc.

If I want to listen to Jimmy Buffet in a faux tropical setting all I need to do is hop in the car, drive 20 miles to Baltimore and take my choice of unhospitable, drunken frat boy bars. No thanks...

If you want to be reminded of an exotic tiki paradise listen to exotica - if you want to recreate a night vomiting margaritas in a urine soaked men's room in Key West or losing consciousness in a grotesque port-a-pot in the parking lot of some concert venue - then crank up good ole' Jimmy!! :P
Just my opinion..."

Truer words were never spoken. John Tiki just crystalized for me what is so f-in wrong with Buffet, buff-divers, and buffeteers look at 40!

I hate him, them, those, that,and I want to FORCE them to listen to Tiki music!!!!

After seeing an interview with the guy I can't say I hate him. He seems like a pretty genuine dude and understands he's not Martin Denny or the savior of Tiki or anything.

Still wouldn't ever go to a concert unless I was jones'n real bad.
Wouldn't listen to much of his music either except the legit country stuff like "Come Monday."

But Flounder loves him and I like Flounder so...

Kanekila is a fan, too, but he's from Wisconsin so... there you go.
I'm sure his frozen brain stuck to Buffet one blustery January day and forced him to move to Florida to thaw out.
So, in that sense, I'm glad.

Jimmy lurked here for a while I'm told but we were big meanies to him.
All I wanted him to do was open a real Tiki Museum/Lounge somewhere instead of another awful Margarita-ville/Disney-ville bar.

Jimmy, if you're reading this - there's still hope.
Go get a couple drinks at the Tiki Ti or the Mai Kai and flip on a Mai Kai Gents or King Kukulele CD.
Call Bosko or Wayne Coombs and tell them you're coming over to buy some stuff.
Just follow the path from there.

Would someone please tell me what I like so I can go out and get it now. I don't care what you say about buffet, but diss'n people with sticks in their asses, Well that's just going too far!

To paraphrase one of my favorite quotes: Tiki is too important to be taken seriously.

JB is cool. He ain't tiki, but he's got the tiki spirit. I wonder if some of the critics would hate tiki if they went into a tiki bar and there were a lot of drunken frat boys. Are people drunk on Mai Tais less obnoxious than people drunk on Margaritas? Loosen up.

Wow, some threads never die. I've always found this one interesting in a social-experiment, human-observation kinda way.

Yeah, yeah we all love Martin Denny and we all like to drink rum and hang out together blah, blah. But maybe -- just maybe, for this whole tiki/exotica movie we live in to be a little more interesting, we want - no, we need some kind of shared conflict, a villian, an antagonist to face off with our collective protagonist. Rocky-Apollo Creed, Red Sox-Yankees, Superman-Lex Luther, Metallica-Megadeth, whatever. Maybe Jimmy Buffet and the Parrotheads fill that gap for us?

Or maybe I'm taking that screenwriting class way too seriously.....

On 2005-12-16 14:42, vegasvic wrote:
Wow, some threads never die. I've always found this one interesting in a social-experiment, human-observation kinda way.

Very well put! I also think it creates an opportunity to show wisdom and restraint by not joining in the fray. But since I've never been accused of having either, I'll share a few thoughts.

I think I must have been in a cave through the '80s and '90s, because when I recently made an effort to delve into Buffett's 35+ year body of work, I did so without any idea that he was associated with the sorts of objectionable social "scenes" that keep getting mentioned here in relation to him (the classic one being a sort of archetypal crew of "drunken frat boys" who ruin tiki bars by demanding to hear "Cheeseburger in Paradise" then puking on the floor (have I got that right?)).

So, I brought his music into my own "scene," so to speak, winnowing out what I regarded as the less substantial, "party" material, and finding that I liked much of what was left over. Countless songs evoking travel, adventure, and optimism. Respectful lyrical interweavings with the legacies of adventurers, storytellers, and entertainers of years gone by, from Mark Twain to Carmen Miranda. "Love songs" written to places -- cities, seas, cultural spheres. And generally these are the sorts of places that attract me (and I dare say, most of you): New Orleans; Brazil; the Caribbean islands; Tahiti; etc. Let others sing and write of alpine mountains; I get cold in such places. I've got a feeling some here on Tikicentral can relate to me on this, am I right?

I'm just glad I went ahead and investigated the material and made up my own mind, rather than being dissuaded by the spiteful comments of others. It so happens my overall assessment is positive, but I would feel this way even if it were negative. I would like to recommend the same approach to anyone who is wondering what all the fuss is about. There are many ways to do this on the cheap. I used an old-fashioned one: the library system. So, if you still dislike Jimmy Buffett, you'll be able to say something intelligent like, "I prefer jazz" or "I'm not into the 'singer-songwriter' thing" or even just "I don't like his voice," instead of just reciting hateful caricatures of other people whose tastes differ from yours.

On another positive vein - Jake Shimabukuro got on stage with him a few times and that's nothing but cool.

Nice post, Thomas.
All that is true.

Unfortunately this is also true:

http://www.margaritaville.com/cafes.php

Yecch. This doesn't conjure up any of the cool things his better songs that you mentioned do.
And this is where the disconnect comes for most here.

I'm of two minds on that, Pablus. When it comes to personal taste, I'm inclined to agree: I probably wouldn't fly to Jamaica or Cancun, for example, and go to Margaritaville. My impulse would certainly be to try to have a more unique experience generated by a combination of my own efforts and happenstance. Life tends to more interesting that way in my opinion, and I gather that you feel the same way.

I can't say I look at the photos of those establishments and say, "Yecch," though. I see the results of risk-taking capital investment. I see payrolls with thousands of people earning paychecks, health insurance, and the like (I've never created a job opportunity for a Jamaican, and probably never will -- I am inclined to salute those who do). I see enterprises which pay taxes to the jurisdictions in which they are located, which help fund schools, police departments, and the like. I see a brand which seeks to promise a high level of service (decent, safe food; clean restrooms; etc.) and will suffer if it fails to deliver these things.

I think these things are morally good, simply put, and in a way that does not depend on whether or not I personally share the aesthetic sense of the establishments (which, on the whole, I do not).

Pablus, this might seem obsequious, but here goes nonetheless. I'm relatively new here, and haven't had the pleasure of meeting you or any of the folks here in person yet. However I have read in recent weeks of your pain at losing a friend and brother in music, your global travels, and your professional recording endeavors. As insecure as this might seem on my part, I'll not hide that I felt honored by your response to my post. I know that sounds a bit over the top, but it's pretty much how I feel right now, so there it is.

Kind of related to the above, there is a very entertaining series of 5 brief dispatches from a guy travelling the length of Baja California, in slate.com.

His preference for the pristine over the commercialized will strike a familiar chord. His encounter with Cabo is particularly entertaining in this regard.

It's like a Mon. - Fri. diary, starting with Mon.:
http://www.slate.com/id/2131979/entry/2131981/
I think many here would enjoy it.

-- T.

This was prompted by this, from Sabu the Coconut Boy, in another thread:
**
Tikis and Statues of Jesus should not face each other.
When setting up your Nativity Scene this Christmas, The Tiki should
flank one end of the A-frame with the camel flanking the other. Baby
Jesus should lay lengthwise in the outrigger canoe. Each angel should have
a pufferfish lamp suspended above its head.
**

Tangentially, for those who find the devotion of Parrotheads a bit cultish, and are thus inclined to suspect that Jimmy Buffett might be the antichrist, it bears noting that his birthday is none other than Dec. 25, and this upcoming one will be his 60th.

By all means let us hang no graven images of Jimmy Buffett this Christmas season (and avoid playing his Christmas album, which is a good idea in any case), lest we hasten the arrival of the age of darkness. One of the early signs of which will be announcement that Margaritaville is launching a hostile takeover of Trader Vic's, and Wall Street approves...

Are people drunk on Mai Tais less obnoxious than people drunk on Margaritas? Loosen up.

Absolutely YES!

KK

I came across these lyrics, to a David Allen Coe song titled 'The Jimmy Buffer Song'

Now Jimmy's moved to Malibu with all those other stars
He's not down at in Duval Street hangin' out in bars
All them God damned tourist, got to be a bore.
Jimmy Buffet doesn't live here any more

So don't tell me I sound like Jimmy Buffet
Just because I got that island beat
Jimmy might have grown up on the ocean
Me, I kinda grown up on the street
Music's just a way of life, me I'm liv'in free
Don't lay all that Key West Jimmy Buffet shit on me

Vern

pablus wrote:

On another positive vein - Jake Shimabukuro got on stage
with him a few times and that's nothing but cool.

And Martin Denny, as well. I know JB isn't Exotica (I tend
to call it "beach music") but I like it anyway (and Hawaiian
slack key and lap steel guitar, surf, Caribbean steel drum
band/calypso/reggae/carnival/bumatuk/etc. too), 60's-70's
"pop", soft rock, some hard rock (but little metal/acid
rock), even 50's doo-wop and rockabilly, jazz, blues, adult
contemporary, some new pop, old school rap (but not gangsta/
profane rap or hip-hop), electronica, trance and a few other
genres [just about anything but classical, opera or country
(at least modern country... pre-"Rhinestone Cowboy" CAN be
okay)] and I am a BIG fan of MOST novelty music.
Hell, if I was faced with a roomful of the uninitiated, I
would probably START with Jimmy and work my way BACK to the
Exotica we all love.

Jimmy B.
some version of "The Girl From Ipanema", probably HA&tTB
Beach Boys/Jan & Dean/etc.
MAYBE some SM&B'66/BMB
some EzL (probably HM doing "Peter Gunn")
Dick Dale
Reggae/Calypso (Marley/Belafonte)
Exotica (STARTING with "Quiet Village", of course
(then I might even throw in some Polynesian music to boot)

In other words, I'd slowly work them from what they KNOW to
what they could/should LOVE if they give it a chance. Okay,
you can all toss me into the volcano now. :wink: LIGHTEN UP!
This is SUPPOSED to be FUN! Jimmy tries to be fun "sand
sounds" for the masses. He's not hurtin' anybody except
maybe himself (steppin' on that pop top) and some shrimp.
"It's five o'clock SOMEWHERE!" A toast to anybody who is
helping me forget my job by wafting some soothing sounds
that make the wahines sway their hips with the island
breezes. (Hell, I think the monkey in the fez has had one
too many. He's ogling the parrot with the fin & eyepatch.)
Gawd, this is enough to drive a kane or wahine to drink.
(Thanks for small favors... and I AIN'T talkin' little
parasols here.)

I have tried to give Jimmy Buffett's stuff a chance. But fer eg; whenever I hear that female chorus join in;
Cheeseburger in paradise (Pair uh DIIIICE!)
aaauuugh! So damn... well... cheezy!
sounds like a cheap pop tune. just too simple.
sounds like some theme for a small burger joint chain.
and that Southern fried accent. I'd like to throw that on the grill and forget it for a few weeks.
I mean, what does he do; watch Dukes of Hazzard on TV while he's writing these songs?
"Awn thuh thereyushowuld-uv-udveyunchoor"
"Dayown thayut Spayuneeyish haaahwayuh!"
aaarrrrrgggghhhhxxxxzzz!

and his lyrics are overly simplistic and cute, (sometimes bordering on the infantile) rhyming anything just for the sake of rhyming often. "zucchini fettuchini".
and his blatant rip of of:
"The Weather Is Here, Wish You Were Beautiful"
i mean c'mon. This ain't a song title, it's an old joke.

His "Changes in attitude" is a rip off of the old "Sonora's Death Row." listen to Leo Kottke's rendition.

How bout this:
"I like mine with lettuce and tomato
Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes
Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer
Well good God almighty which way do I steer, for my..."
I could NEVER, no matter how drunk i got, imagine myself singing that pap.
that's not poetic or evocative or inspiring.
That is a construction worker's conversation; reciting his shopping list and urges of the moment.

A web site (http://tinyurl.com/zcupd) that tries to understand the attraction of Buffet and his cult generously explains: "Jimmy Buffet's music can be best described as adult nursery rhymes celebrating drunkenness, laziness and promiscuity" "It can aptly be categorized as yuppie muzak. The ubiquitous xylophone and maracas create a nauseating faux island music experience" "This clown and his band are nothing more than a wedding/bar band that got lucky and found a nitch of idiots with more money that taste. The fans often refer to themselves as Parrot Heads who adorn themselves in silly straw hats, fake Hawaiian shirts, tight Khaki shorts, sandals and those sun glasses with the strings attached."

I listened to pirate at forty just now.
sounds formulaic. that b/g voices; done a thousand times before. It's a generic template for a pop song.

and his appropriation of carribean, marimba and mexican musical elements and motifs to flavor his songs that damned near sound all the same, makes ya realize; OK, he originally composed ditties for Disney and had the flash: "Hey! I could create a cult following darn near what the grateful dead had". (or rather: "Dern neyar whaut thuh guh-rate fuwol deyad heyud".
And he did.
wow.
I give him an "E" for effort. and marketing.
But no more of my time.
OK, he makes thousands of people happy. Especially when he's in concert and ya have these swarms of yuppies in their tommy bahama fake tropical wear all singing and swaying in unison. More power to him and his cult. More CD's for all them, too. Cuz i just don't buy it.

Oh. and his margaritaville tequila features some of the most pretentious copy ever written on a label on a bottle of any kind since adam and eve.
Just a taste, so yer cranium doesn't implode:
"Where is margaritaville? It's in the tropics between the port of indescision and southwest of disorder."
jesus!
His tourist traps; "Margaritaville" are an assault to the senses.
read one review here:
http://tinyurl.com/za6gg

("hey. Why doesn't anyone wanna leave Margaritaville? Cuz ya haveta go through Hangovertown to do it.")

His forgettable, snore inducing sllloooowww throwaway songs shanghai your brain and force it to board the boredom boat and float to somnambulistic oblivion. The only recourse is to run screaming to any other brand of tequila but his, to wash away the K-mart level musical experience.

Other than that, I like him.

[ Edited by: lanikai 2006-04-17 18:54 ]

LOL.
I love posts like this (with links even).

Just grab the kini-kini and start swinging.

Mahalo, lanikai.

I have tried to give Jimmy Buffett's stuff a chance. But fer eg; whenever I hear that female chorus join in;
Cheeseburger in paradise (Pair uh DIIIICE!)
aaauuugh! So damn... well... cheezy!
sounds like a cheap pop tune. just too simple.
sounds like some theme for a small burger joint chain.
and that Southern fried accent. I'd like to throw that on the grill and forget it for a few weeks.
I mean, what does he do; watch Dukes of Hazzard on TV while he's writing these songs?
"Awn thuh thereyushowuld-uv-udveyunchoor"
"Dayown thayut Spayuneeyish haaahwayuh!"
aaarrrrrgggghhhhxxxxzzz!

and his lyrics are overly simplistic and cute, (sometimes bordering on the infantile) rhyming anything just for the sake of rhyming often. "zucchini fettuchini".
and his blatant rip of of:
"The Weather Is Here, Wish You Were Beautiful"
i mean c'mon. This ain't a song title, it's an old joke.

His "Changes in attitude" is a rip off of the old "Sonora's Death Row." listen to Leo Kottke's rendition.

How bout this:
"I like mine with lettuce and tomato
Heinz 57 and french fried potatoes
Big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer
Well good God almighty which way do I steer, for my..."
I could NEVER, no matter how drunk i got, imagine myself singing that pap.
that's not poetic or evocative or inspiring.
That is a construction worker's conversation; reciting his shopping list and urges of the moment.

A web site (http://tinyurl.com/zcupd) that tries to understand the attraction of Buffet and his cult generously explains: "Jimmy Buffet's music can be best described as adult nursery rhymes celebrating drunkenness, laziness and promiscuity" "It can aptly be categorized as yuppie muzak. The ubiquitous xylophone and maracas create a nauseating faux island music experience" "This clown and his band are nothing more than a wedding/bar band that got lucky and found a nitch of idiots with more money that taste. The fans often refer to themselves as Parrot Heads who adorn themselves in silly straw hats, fake Hawaiian shirts, tight Khaki shorts, sandals and those sun glasses with the strings attached."

I listened to pirate at forty just now.
sounds formulaic. that b/g voices; done a thousand times before. It's a generic template for a pop song.

and his appropriation of carribean, marimba and mexican musical elements and motifs to flavor his songs that damned near sound all the same, makes ya realize; OK, he originally composed ditties for Disney and had the flash: "Hey! I could create a cult following darn near what the grateful dead had". (or rather: "Dern neyar whaut thuh guh-rate fuwol deyad heyud".
And he did.
wow.
I give him an "E" for effort. and marketing.
But no more of my time.
OK, he makes thousands of people happy. Especially when he's in concert and ya have these swarms of yuppies in their tommy bahama fake tropical wear all singing and swaying in unison. More power to him and his cult. More CD's for all them, too. Cuz i just don't buy it.

Oh. and his margaritaville tequila features some of the most pretentious copy ever written on a label on a bottle of any kind since adam and eve.
Just a taste, so yer cranium doesn't implode:
"Where is margaritaville? It's in the tropics between the port of indescision and southwest of disorder."
jesus!
His tourist traps; "Margaritaville" are an assault to the senses.
read one review here:
http://tinyurl.com/za6gg

("hey. Why doesn't anyone wanna leave Margaritaville? Cuz ya haveta go through Hangovertown to do it.")

His forgettable, snore inducing sllloooowww throwaway songs shanghai your brain and force it to board the boredom boat and float to somnambulistic oblivion. The only recourse is to run screaming to any other brand of tequila but his, to wash away the K-mart level musical experience.

Other than that, I like him.

C'mon, Lanikai. Stop holding back -- tell us how you REALLY FEEL!

:)

I am so happy someone into tiki other than me disses this one trick pony! his music is LARRY WELK EXOTICA; ya know whats funny, though? his books aren't half-bad & I think he actuyally is in on his own joke...yet the momentum & the $$$ make it impossible to deny.

Lets just say I own a TON of Martin Denny and not one Buffett

Jake Shimabukuro is apparently again featuring prominently in JB's current tour. Impressive stuff.

Re. some of the above comments, yeah, some of his stuff is abominable. I only like the good stuff. I think the US military should use "Cheeseburger..." as part of psy-ops when trying to flush terrorists out of their hiding places. Just crank it, on a continuous tape loop...

"Far side of the World," "Beach House on the Moon," "Off to See the lizard" etc. have some nice, refreshing stuff. None of it ever got any radio play, which is probably a plus nowadays.

Anyway, to each his own. I hope no one's forming a conclusion based on some three songs, e.g. M'ville, Why don't we get drunk, and Cheeseburger. Jeez, if that's all there was to him I'd revile him too.

Well, M'ville is a cute piece of work, but a victim of its own success. Driving a rental car around Naples, FL a few months ago, I tuned into one of those ultra-saccharine easy-listening stations for older folks. They played a version of Margaritaville that was all strings, like Muzak for the lobby of an old folks' home. I thought, "yes, this is where it's headed, isn't it!"

But ya know, it was actually pretty good... Or at least, fitting to the environment. I cranked it and enjoyed the ride.

JB actually wrote that tune as album filler, and wrote it in about 10 minutes.

Now, one could say "well, sure... anyone could write THAT in 10 minutes," but one would be wrong.

A well written song that relates a good hook, a theme and a story, in three verses and under 3 minutes, and encapsulates it all in a nice, radio-friendly package is an art form. Now, weather or not one LIKES that particular art form is another thing all together.

A great story telling song will be a complete audio vignette, with appropriate soundtrack, excellent arrangement and editing and should leave the listener with a certain feeling after hearing it, like you feel after leaving the theater. And do it all in a compact and concise 3 minutes, or so.

I'm definitely not saying I love this tune. In fact, as a working musician, I'd be happy to not have to play it again. What I am saying is, comparing JB to Martin Denny or Drasnin, or Lyman is like comparing apples to star fruit (that come from real stars, in galaxies far, far away). It's a pointless endeavor, because they're sooooooo totally different, and meant for different audiences.

Personally, if I could write a pop tune right now in 10 minutes that a lot of people would hate, but a lot MORE would love, and be guaranteed that would sell millions of copies overnight, I'd do it in a frickin' heartbeat. Then, I'd buy an island somewhere in the South Pacific, drink Mai Tai's, and listen to hapa-haole Hawaiian, surf and Exotica music all day long.

But, that's just me. YMMV... :)

On 2006-04-21 10:33, Kanekila wrote: Personally, if I could write a pop tune right now in 10 minutes that a lot of people would hate, but a lot MORE would love, and be guaranteed that would sell millions of copies overnight, I'd do it in a frickin' heartbeat. Then, I'd buy an island somewhere in the South Pacific, drink Mai Tai's, and listen to hapa-haole Hawaiian, surf and Exotica music all day long.

But, that's just me.

No, that's me too.
I would also do it.
and definitely hope that more people loved it than the number who hated it.
But I don't know if that is the case in Buffet's instance tho.
and I would hope to see the aforementioned pop tune were many levels above the musak material JB dispenses. Regardless of the quantity of money it prints.

Wonder if you have an opinion on such songs as Coast of Carolina; Altered Boy; Lucky Stars; Happily Ever After (Now and Then); Remittance Man; Cowboy in the Jungle; Quietly Making Noise; Boomerang Love; That's What Living is to Me; They Don't Dance Like Carmen No More.

Songs like these are why I find Buffett a worthwhile artist on the whole. His many critics here on TC tend to cite the same few songs of his from 30 years ago. Fair enough, but it does make for kind of a circumscribed and repetitive discussion.

It's fine to form an opinion of an artist based on a tiny sample (say 1 or 2 percent) of his or her body of work -- our time is limited, and sometimes it's good to just say, "I don't think that's for me" and move on, leaving the other 98-99% of the stones unturned. But if, I say if, in all honesty you can only name, say, three or four songs by a songwriter who has recorded many hundreds over the years, it might not hurt to temper your negative rants with the acknowledgment that you are basing your criticism on a superficial understanding of the whole.

On 2006-04-21 12:58, Thomas wrote: His many critics here on TC tend to cite the same few songs of his from 30 years ago.
It's fine to form an opinion of an artist based on a tiny sample ...
... acknowledgment that you are basing your criticism on a superficial understanding of the whole.

don't get pissed. You missed the gist.
read the rant.
it's the whole damn cheap goofy circus. Not just a few songs.

On 2006-04-21 13:50, lanikai wrote:

don't get pissed.

Thanks for your concern, but I think my post was pretty level-headed, and I can assure you that I'm far from getting "pissed" about this, any more than I can imagine myself coming to blows with someone because he likes vanilla and I like chocolate. I was mildly curious as to whether you had familiarity with the songs I mentioned; I'll take your lack of response to that as a "no." Again, all well and good; this isn't even a "low-stakes" matter -- it's really pretty much a "no-stakes" matter in the grand scheme of things, I think.

The "circus" element of it all? Yeah, I'm not a joiner in that sort of stuff either, for the most part. I like to select things on my own and "create my own scenes" as much as possible -- I have a feeling this temperament is prevalent among tikiphiles. But obviously many others differ on this, and getting really "tackily boisterous" in a large group scene is their way of blowing off steam. I can't say I get particularly annoyed by this. Good people with a different way of going about things, say I. Of course it can all look ridiculous from an outsider's perspective. Look at the fans at the Beatles' Ed Sullivan performances, or in The Woodstock Movie, or The Grateful Dead Movie, or whatever. In each case, in various ways, you end up kind of rolling your eyes at what now seem like over-the-top, tacky, even cultish behaviors. Oh, well.

And by the way, the "Parrot Head" scene actually has organized clubs that, collectively, raise millions of dollars for charities each year. I find that to be a pretty unique and interesting phenomenon, and I kind of wonder out loud (with my "pop sociology" hat on): does any other musical fan base do anything along those lines?

[ Edited by: Thomas 2006-04-21 14:45 ]

On 2006-04-21 14:44, Thomas wrote: ...getting really "tackily boisterous" in a large group scene is their way of blowing off steam. I can't say I get particularly annoyed by this. Good people with a different way of going about things, say I. Of course it can all look ridiculous from an outsider's perspective. Look at the fans at the Beatles' Ed Sullivan performances, or in The Woodstock Movie,

I could have been counted as one of those. and I may get equally enthusiastic at a friend's local punk band, da merrie monarch hula festival, or Shimabukuro nite at da local sushi place...

And by the way, the "Parrot Head" scene actually has organized clubs that, collectively, raise millions of dollars for charities each year.

...inexplicably, an image of the Hell's Angels' Toys for tots run comes to mind. NOT that there's anything wrong with that. Some of my friends are riders with that m.c..

I find that to be a pretty unique and interesting phenomenon, and I kind of wonder out loud (with my "pop sociology" hat on): does any other musical fan base do anything along those lines?

Got the same hat on too, when I comment on the JB phenom. It's just fun to debate it... Re; the other songs, just figured his stuff would be along the same lines as da old stuff, esp, with those overly cute gimmicky song titles: Altered boy. Quietly Making Noise. Happily Ever After Now and Then. Suppose I should fire up mp3.com or itunes store and give it a chance... lemme swallow a few shots of cabo wabo first... cheers!

[ Edited by: lanikai 2006-04-21 15:14 ]

On 2002-05-16 15:19, TikiMaxton wrote:
For me I know exactly what it says: I'm a purist and I love creating immersive environments. The environments I create are usually fun and interesting, but I also like them to be authentic in every way possible (without affecting the fun and interesting part).

I totally identify with this. In fact, it's one of the reasons I move at such a glacial pace in redoing our home with "immersive" tropical/tiki decor. I have such elaborate, perfectionistic visions of what I want, it's hard to actually get it done. (But I will, and it'll show up on TC in due time.)

I wonder if a touch of obsessiveness isn't a bit more common among us here on TC than in the general population. Harrah's-Laughlin has just put in a nice "Beach Cafe" with repros of vintage travel posters (e.g. Tahiti), movie posters (Endless Summer, Elvis's Hawaii movies, etc.), a tiki carving or two, etc. Overwhelmingly Pacific / Californian / surfing / Hawaiian-Polynesian ... but then I saw a minority of Caribbean stuff mixed in with it, even a parrot or two if I'm not mistaken, and couldn't help explaining to my wife why I found that to be a very regretful negative mark on the decor.

I also can't stand seeing wires -- electrical chords and the like. We recently went to a pretty nice bar, but the electrical chord from a TV on the wall just looped lazily across the wall on its way to the electrical socket. I spent about five minutes explaining how much this ruined the aesthetics of the place, until I saw my wife looking at me as if to say, "I wonder if there is a name for this sort of syndrome..."

Well, I digress, but I just wanted to express my agreement with what TikiMaxton wrote. And yes, Parrot Heads tend not to share this obsessive streak. Pirates, tikis, parrots, all mixed together -- no, it's all like that electrical chord on the wall, and I just can't get over it, it bothers me so!...

Ahem, just kidding.

Likewise, cheers to you, lanikai.

lanikai wrote:
...

A web site (http://tinyurl.com/zcupd) that tries to understand
the attraction of Buffet and his cult generously explains:
"Jimmy Buffet's music can be best described as adult nursery
rhymes celebrating drunkenness, laziness and promiscuity"

Failing to see a problem here. As I approach retirement, I'm
all for partying like it's 1959, kicking back on a sun-soaked
beach with a frozen alcoholic beverage and watching the wahi-
nes walk by and if one wanted to go for a roll in the beach
grass, I wouldn't complain. But then, I DO appreciate the won-
derful world of novelty records as well. I listen to him once
in awhile to put a smile on my face (which I sorely need after
most shifts at work lately and I doubt that he has aspired to
win a Grammy OR collect critical acclaim. He DOES collect the
$'s so he must be doing SOMETHING right.
...

His forgettable, snore inducing sllloooowww throwaway songs
shanghai your brain and force it to board the boredom boat and
float to somnambulistic oblivion. The only recourse is to run
screaming to any other brand of tequila but his, to wash away
the K-mart level musical experience.

Okay, now, CONFESS! How do you REALLY feel?

Other than that, I like him.

Oh, okay, as long as you don't COMPLETELY hate him. :wink:

[ Edited by: tikigik 2006-04-21 16:42 ]

I have yet another thought on the matter (after which I think I should go cold turkey on this topic for a while...).

I think when people have a strong fondness for something, they get very particular about delineations and often strongly dislike stuff that is "close" to it but not "the real thing." Some examples:

I know a guy who's a big Allman Brothers fan. He hates it when people put them in the category of "southern rock" and associate them with bands like Lynard Skynard. The distinction is very important to him. The Allmans are much more associated with the richness of the blues tradition, he insists (and rightly so, I say). But anyway, as an Allmans fan, he's neutral regarding, say, Bach, but strongly dislikes Skynard.

It's easy to imagine a diehard water skier in, say, Florida, who is entirely neutral regarding ice fishing ("seems OK, but it sure isn't my thing!"), but hates jet-skis ("they're awful! I hate 'em!"). Again, it's the thing that's "close, but not the real thing" that becomes the object of derision.

Any number of other examples come to mind. It's easy to imagine a Sinatra fan in the early '60s who was neither positive nor negative regarding polka music, but strongly disliked Bobby Darin ("trying to emulate Sinatra! A faker!..."). Again, the "proximal" thing gets the disdain in this sort of scenario.

Some of the passionate feelings regarding JB's stuff, which is often labelled "trop-rock" and is associated with the southeast and gulf coast, on the part of TCers seems to me manifest this process as well. Some sayings come to mind: "Good fences make good neighbors" ; "Familiarity breeds contempt" ; etc.

One more thing!

Once in a while in this topic I catch a whiff of geographical/social prejudice. There is an undertone of disdain, occasionally, for the southeast, southern accents, etc. Sometimes it even goes from "undertone" to "overtone" in the form of over-the-top caricature.

I'm no P.C. cop, and think we all should have thick skins and be able to endure a bit of regional stereotyping now and then (I should know, I'm originally from New Jersey), but I figured it merited a mention anyway.

JB has a southern accent. It's not fake. He grew up in Mobile, AL. He is a very successful white southerner, and does not appear to suffer psychological guilt over this. This probably overstates the matter a bit, but sometimes it seems that for some folks, this is his gravest sin. Prejudice does take many forms.

My opinion regarding the south is pretty simple: it's warmer there than it is in New Jersey.

On 2006-04-21 17:55, Thomas wrote:
One more thing!

Hey! you were supposed ta....

On 2006-04-21 17:55, Thomas wrote:
JB has a southern accent. It's not fake. He grew up in Mobile, AL. He is a very successful white southerner, and does not appear to suffer psychological guilt over this. This probably overstates the matter a bit, but sometimes it seems that for some folks, this is his gravest sin. Prejudice does take many forms.

Weyull, pardnuh, thayut wuz me. It's just that... a southern accent? In tropicrock? dass a crock! and for us here on da lava rock, we get enuff of the southern fried rock.
'round these parts here, we get alotta Lynard, Allman, 38Special, Blackfoot, (in a class all their own, you GO, boyz!)
No prejudice involved. Just an observation.

Well, "trop-rock" is a vague term -- the Beach Boys' "Kokomo" fits in there too. Heck, so do the Pina Colada song, and the Love Boat theme, for all I know. But it is strongly associated with Florida as well as something called "Gulf and Western" (country music associated with the gulf coast, thus the boating and fishing lifestyle of that region to a large extent).

A lot of goofy mush has come out of this sub-genre, but also it's often interesting to see country music encounter, and mix with, Caribbean stuff like steel drums and the like. I repeat: a lot of goofy mush ... but also some pretty nice stuff has emerged from this encounter. Mainstream country music, broadly speaking, not having been known for being particularly "multicultural" or "integrated," encounters the Caribbean. I dunno, I find it a musical twist that merits a listen now and then, and I personally find that a lot of it "travels" well, that is, works in other tropical/coastal settings other than the one from which it emerged (a bit like how reggae is very popular in Hawaii, the Philippines, etc.). But that's just one man's opinion.