The Navy Grog, a component study in Mixology

Well, I have been poking around through my recipes trying to think of something that would work as a cocktail component study. I kept coming back to a couple of specific recipes, but wasn't quite feeling it.

Then, three different people in three weeks asked me about some version or variation of the Navy Grog and I took it as a sign. So, I give to you....... (cue shakers, dim the lights, sound the ice crushers)

The Navy Grog.

A brief search of recipes on-line turns up several common variations of the Navy Grog, all of which are pretty tasty in their own way. Most recipes agree on Lime and Grapefruit, but some add pineapple, some add orange, a few even get into exotics like guava and passion fruit.

Many of you have your own versions of this recipe (thank you to those that shared, they are all very tasty), and most of them are close if not exactly what the esteemed Beachbum Berry offered as 'the' recipe:

NAVY GROG
3/4 ounce fresh lime juice
3/4 ounce grapefruit juice
3/4 ounce club soda
1 ounce honey mix***
1 ounce white Puerto Rican rum
1 ounce dark Jamaican rum
1 ounce Lemon Hart Demerara rum

Shake well with crushed ice. Pour into double old-fashioned glass.

***HONEY MIX: Heat equal parts honey and water until honey dissolves completely (do not boil). Bottle it. It will stay liquid (keep it in the fridge; it'll last a couple weeks).

This recipe is modified with the Honey Mix so that you can work with a shaker instead of a blender. All other components of the drink are per the 'original' recipe.

So.... with the Bum's claim that this is 'the' recipe, and we have no reason to doubt the validity of that claim, lets use this as the basis for our mixology discussion:

To quote Wayne and Garth... "Game On!"

For your entertainment:
http://www.recipezaar.com/99515
http://www.webtender.com/db/drink/2605
http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink5581.html

Lime is the first ingredient for discussion. It has been discussed many times in many threads including this one, this one, and many more that you can find with a quick search.

So, rather than squeeze fruit we have squeezed before, I will ask that you take a moment to search around and read some of the other discussions on limes. Then I would ask that you tell us what kind of limes you have access too and how they compare this year to last? I have noticed here in South Florida that the limes are a bit smaller and a bit drier than last year, maybe there is something to this global-warming stuff.....

Go, discuss, drink.

If we break this down a little...
...Limes have been done, as you mentioned.
...Different club sodas should have very little effect.
...The demerara is specified.
...Grapefruit is grapefruit (is it?)

So what we have to compare is the White & Dark rums.

If we limit to PR White - or close - again this should have very little effect in this drink. There's so many other strong flavors going on that I suspect most whites would disappear.

So as a component study, we have a few dark Jamaicans to compare. If this is it, I would pick a simpler drink, maybe one without a demerara.

I'm not trying to be a spoil-sport, honestly. If you know there's a noticeable difference between 2 formulas please let me know what I'm missing.

Well, grapefruit is not really 'just' grapefuit because you have the three major colors (white, pink and red) and then there is the un-ending debate of bottled-vs-fresh.

And, in my reseach I have found the honey to play a surprisingly interesting role in the drink and my local markets have about eight kinds of honey from which to choose.

And then, yes, the rums. Demerera is not the easiest find for everyone, but worth the quest.

But, we are jumping ahead.......

Tonight, for those of you playing along, your homework is grapefruit. Go to the market and get a grapefruit, a white flesh variety if you can find one. If white is not available, try to find pink, or as your last option a Ruby Red. You only need one because an average fruit will yeild eight or more ounces of juice.

OK. How about this?

Didn't Little Eddie Vernon (aka Old Grog), Admiral of Vices (c.1740) introduce a rum and water concoction into the British Royal Navy to reduce drunkeness (crews having been accustomed to drinking its rum ration neat), which was named "Grog" by the disgruntled sailors?

Admiral Edward "Old Grog" Vernon
without his customary grogram cloak

Here's the original recipe from Pusser's site:

Thus he issued his infamous Order to Captains No. 349 on August 21, 1740. His order stated that the daily allowance of rum "be every day mixed with the proportion of a quart of water to a half pint of rum, to be mixed in a scuttled butt kept for that purpose, and to be done upon the deck, and in the presence of the Lieutenant of the Watch who is to take particular care to see that the men are not defrauded in having their full allowance of rum... and let those that are good husband men receive extra lime juice and sugar that it be made more palatable to them."

Oar, was Old Grog's grog just "Grog" and the cocktail known as "Navy Grog" a variety of Grog that was invented centuries later.

Oar, regardless of its origins, is it only "Navy" Grog if it is made with British Navy Pusser's Rum, the rum used (exclusively at the time) by the British Royal Navy when Vernon introduced the concoction?

Limes, you say?

What kind of limes did the Limeys use when Grog was invented?

Most likely they were Key limes. Tahiti/Persian limes probably didn't exist then. Though their history is unknown at this point, it is thought that they are a cross between Key limes and Mexican Citron, and probably came into being in the middle of the 19th Century, about 100 years after the invention of Vernon's Grog.

Therefore, I believe that all concoctions with origins predating Persian limes should call for Key limes, only relying on Persians as a substitute.

Arhh! Me hardies! I be more interested in a nautical potion known as Bumbo. Now where be me nutmeg and pomegranates?

On 2007-06-26 12:57, Chip and Andy wrote:
Well, grapefruit is not really 'just' grapefuit because you have the three major colors (white, pink and red) and then there is the un-ending debate of bottled-vs-fresh

OK, knee-jerk reaction on my part since I would never grab pink or red when the recipe called for "grapefruit" and not "pink grapefruit."

But that's part of the fun of this - thinking outside the box, and discovering how different ingredients change flavors.

Bumbo is a topic of a different discussion. And if it isn't, maybe it should be. It should generate a lot of discussion considering the fact that our beloved rums all started off as something the workers and slaves made themselves from the scrap and cast-off of a different industry.

But, we are here for the Navy Grog. The origins of the name and how it came to be are better described by Beachbum Berry and Ed Hamilton.

Back to the ingredients..... Did everyone complete their homework?

Grapefruit

Let me start this ingredient by saying I am not a doctor, but I do play on on TV occasionally....

Many of you are on medications that limit or prohibit grapefruit in your diet. For those of you on cholesterol medication the reason you can't do grapefruit is because it inhibits the absorption of the medication into your system. Well, grapefruit is traditionally a breakfast food or drink and most medications of this nature are taken in the morning. Vis-a-vie eating or drinking grapefruit for breakfast would make taking your medications useless therefore this much maligned fruit is verboten.

Now, since most cocktails are taken in the evening hours far, far away from breakfast (no laughing even though it is happy hour somewhere in the world) having one or two cocktails with grapefruit juice in them is probably not going to kill you. Probably. Two Navy Grog's and you are only taking in an ounce and a half of grapefruit juice which is one quarter of a 'typical' serving of six ounces.

Long story short, if you 'occasionally' enjoy yourself a Navy Grog or two you probably won't have any issues with whatever medications you are taking. If you are unsure of just how much or why you can't have grapefruit, consult a doctor or two and see what they say. And you don't necessarily have to tell the doctor that you are surrounding that grapefruit with a protective layer of rum.

So, the ingredient!

Grapefruit

This lovely but much maligned fruit is going to play the role of the 'exotic' component. We already have the lime because we all know that the rum-lime connection is probably one of the best pairings in the world second only to Abbott and Costello. Well, this drink has three full ounces of rum in it and so far we have only added three-quarter ounces of lime. In steps the grapefruit to do two things for our drink: First to help support the lime-rum connection with its citrus component. Second, to provide a unique taste (and aroma) to the drink. When made well, the grapefruit part of this drink is not easily identified and stays somewhat mysteriously on the back of the tongue and keeps you guessing at its presence.

It has been discussed elsewhere about the 'shortage' of white grapefruit this season and the recipe prefers the white variety for its color and lighter overall taste. Pink grapefruit is a bit easier to find and Red grapefruit should be your last option both because of the color and strong taste. But, as we mentioned with the limes, do what you can with what you have.

Fresh is best, always, but not always available. Bottled is pretty good, if you are careful. The one thing I will tell you to absolutely avoid are those tiny little cans of grapefruit juice. They look appealing because of their small size and long shelf life, but for drinks of this nature they are horrible. The biter notes of the juice come out first and really make the final pour a misery to drink.

When looking at bottled options read the ingredients. You want something that is 100% Grapefruit juice. "Duh..." you say. Well, the label may say 100% juice but the ingredient list can include many things like grape or apple juice as filler. And, avoid anything that came from concentrate because it will have been through enough processing to loose much of the exotic taste we are after. Bonus points for anything that claims to be "lightly pasteurized." That is only a marketing gimmick, but it at least shows an interest in the product on the part of the manufacturer.

And now, a few tips for the care and feeding of your larger fruit on the bar:

You need three-quarters of an ounce, but a typical grapefruit will yield eight to ten ounces of juice. Well, the juice stays freshest in the fruit so just cut a wedge out of the fruit (resist the urge to cut it all at once!) and squeeze what you need. If you need more, cut another wedge. When you have acquired the proper amount of juice take a piece of plastic wrap and press into the wedge to completely cover the cut part of the fruit. This will help keep air away from the meat of the fruit and keep it fresher longer.

If you are keeping your fruit in the fridge, pull it out about an hour or so before you need it. You will have to work harder to get the juice from a cold fruit. This goes for all of your citrus fruits.

And finally.... (about time man!)

Discuss. Tell us about your grapefruit. What do you have access to, what does it taste like. Take a bit of grapefruit and a bit of lime and mix them together and see how the flavors are starting to build.

I generally use Grovestand juices in the carton. They are the next best thing to squeezing an actual grapefruit or orange, and they are always fresh, and have an appropriate amount of pulp. When you are entertaining, it is a great time saver, and does not sacrifice flavor.

May I suggest also a discussion of another ingredient, the honey? I have found that different honeys have different flavors, and when I mix with honey, I pour the honey into the shaker which already has the rums in it, and shake before adding anything else. This dissolves the honey in the rums, obviating the need for preparing another mix. My favorite honey for mixing drinks is orange blossom.

On 2007-06-27 08:32, The Mayor Of Exotica wrote:
I generally use Grovestand juices in the carton. They are the next best thing to squeezing an actual grapefruit or orange, and they are always fresh, and have an appropriate amount of pulp. When you are entertaining, it is a great time saver, and does not sacrifice flavor.

Have you compared it directly to fresh squeezed? Is it really that close (I hope so)? And what is the largest and/or smallest size you can find it in?

I know that grapefruit is not as ellusive a flavor as limes, but being citrus there is just something fresh about, well, fresh....

May I suggest also a discussion of another ingredient, the honey?

Not yet, your getting ahead of the game. Soon, but not just yet.

Grovestand comes in quart containers, and while I haven't juiced a grapefruit in a while, it's as close as I can imagine. Pure squeezed juice, no preservatives or sweeteners. But ya gotta used it fast! It'll turn on ya!~

On 2007-06-28 09:51, The Mayor Of Exotica wrote:
... But ya gotta used it fast! It'll turn on ya!~

That is a good sign when it comes to cocktails. Fresh doesn't stay that way for very long or else the wouldn't call it fresh.

Anybody want to take a crack at trying to describe the flavor difference between white and red grapefruit?

This is one of the better links I have found describing the history and differences of Grapefruit..

http://www.vegparadise.com/highestperch63.html

I still get a smile when I read the scientific name... Citrus X paradisi

As to which color grapefruit in regards to our recipe: White Flesh grapefruit would have been the most common fruit availale about the time this recipe was invented so that should be our target. The color of the fruit is actually less important than the quality of the fruit, specifically: Look for fruit that is large and well shaped, smooth and heavy for its size. If the fruit has a 'nipple' at the stem or flower end it was picked too early and will be bitter (more bitter than other grapefruit).

Now, lets review whats in our glass so far:

Lime (lots of citrus, medium tart, little sweet)
Grapefruit (lots of citrus, medium to strong tart, lots of sweet, lots of aroma)

A heady mix of flavors and aroma, this is going to get nothing but better.

Do please continue to discuss your adventures in Limes and Grapefuit and which varities you can get in your local areas. "Season" is over for grapefruit, but in this modern age you should still be able to find something to use and share.

Next up: Club Soda, also known as Charged Water, and why you shouldn't even think about skipping this ingredient....

I never even considered grapefruit variety differences - I've always bought whatever looked the best, and I believe that's always been the red grapefruit. I'll have to try the white.

I generally buy my limes at the local farmers' market - I'll certainly agree that this year they are smaller and dryer than in 2006. The vendors claim they are local Hawaiian limes, but I suspect they are from the mainland, and probably the same Persian limes everybody has at the supermarket. Four or five for $2.00.

On 2007-07-11 23:40, Koolau wrote:
Four or five for $2.00.

Ouch. Nobody said living in paradise was cheap! Limes in my area are going at 8 for $1 right now in the local supermarkets. Out of season, they cost maybe twice that. Fresh key limes are (I think) $3.50 a bag.

A word about grapefruit. I have the pleasure of having my own grapefruit tree, that with careful picking, yields me grapefruit throughout the entire year. If I pick them early, I have a yellow grapefruit, if I let the sun get to it, it is more ruby red. However, and this is the key point I want to make, when you pick your grapefruit straight from the tree and then juice it immediately afterward, the juice you obtain is nothing like the juice you get from a supermarket grapefruit or from a carton of grapefruit. In fact, it is more like water with a slightly laced flavor of grapefruit. In a word, it is delicous beyond anything I've ever tasted. Not to sweet, not bitter, just simply grapefruit. Now, leave the juice to sit in the refridgerator a day or two and you get your more typical grapefruit citrus bite.

I mention this because we are always talking about "fresh". Here, however, it is important to denote that a truly fresh grapefruit will yield a flavor unlike that of a freshly "squeezed" grapefruit from the supermarket. And it is important to note that it also changes the flavor of your Navy Grog.

On that note, I think it's safe to assume that any recipe involving grapefruit juice refers the very tangy and slightly bitter stuff that one may get from the grocery store or have juiced from grocery store grapefruits.

It sounds like the "super duper fresh" stuff might be a little too subtle to stand up in a cocktail (or at least Navy Grog).

On 2007-07-18 05:21, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
On that note, I think it's safe to assume that any recipe involving grapefruit juice refers the very tangy and slightly bitter stuff that one may get from the grocery store or have juiced from grocery store grapefruits.

It sounds like the "super duper fresh" stuff might be a little too subtle to stand up in a cocktail (or at least Navy Grog).

Well, that depends.....

From a Cocktail Historian standpoint, the super-duper-fresh is probably what was used originally. We don't know about the quality of the fruit used 'back in the day.' As has been discussed previously, the quality of the limes varies greatly by the shipping distance from the orchid/orchard of origin. But, since Southern California was one of the larger Grapefruit producing areas we can hope that was a minor concern. And, if we go under the assumption that it was nothing but the best was used behind the bar we can suppose (hope, actually) this Super-Duper flavor, however sublte, is what we are aiming for.

From a Home-Bar standpoint (and that is our goal in this conversation) we can sort-of establish a base line for our flavors so that we know what and why we are adding to our glass. From there we can make sure that we are drinking nothing but the best. So, for the Super-Duper fresh, we will just have to sacrifice and make two drinks to compare the differences. Who knows, maybe the bottled stuff actually works out better on the modern palate....

Your point is well taken. Because I grow my own grapefruits, I prefer the taste of fresh off the tree grapefruit. The flavor is so gentle that you can drink a quart of it without blinking. What it does in the Navy Grog is to impart the essence of grapefruit without actually imparting the twang of grapefruit. Now, I reiterate, this does impact the character of the overall drink - it allows the other flavors to become more pronounced while making the drink a little more gentle, "feminine", in its taste. Mr. Grog doesn't seem so mean and dastardly without his "twang".

This effect is only possible if the grapefruit is off-the-vine freshly squeezed. For most of our mixologist, this is something that simply won't be possible.

According to Beachbum Berry's website, grog mix is essentially an allspice syrup, i.e. pimento liqueur? His recipe for a Trader Vic Navy Grog is as follows:

Into a cocktail shaker pour
3/4 ounce fresh lime juice,
1/2 ounce grapefruit juice,
3/4 ounce allspice syrup, and
1 ounce each dark Jamaican rum and Demerara rum.
Shake well with lots of crushed ice and pour into a double old-fashioned glass.

My question is, how is this one different than the one we've been discussing?

Navy Grog

3/4 oz. lime juice
3/4 oz grapefurit juice
3/4 oz honey (okay, there is one difference - allspice syrup instead of honey
1 oz light PR rum - Another difference
1 oz Demerara rum

Any thoughts on the use of allspice syrup instead of honey?

By the way, on another discussion board that I've bumped next to this one,

Martiki wrote:

The restauant recipe is juice from 1/2 lime, 3/4 oz grapefruit, dash simple syrup, 1/4-1/3 oz rum grog concentrate, and then the rum. This is where some of the locations differ. Emeryville uses 1 oz silver, 1 oz gold, 1 oz dark- all Trader Vic's brand. SF uses 1 oz gold, 1 oz dark and 1/2-3/4 oz Lemon Hart 151. The rum grog concentrate is MUCH different than the retail version. TV is not supposed to sell it, so I suggest you head to Atlanta- that's quite a coup.

[ Edited by: telescopes 2007-09-02 15:08 ]

First off....let me make it perfectly clear, I am not a connoisseur of all the individual ingredients as most of your are. Rum drinks are not my favorites as they typically give me a headache, but I do like and appreciate a well made rum drink. Mostly my goal is to make good drinks that my party guests will like. So far, I have done OK with my Mai Tais (just a little adjusted from the Grog Log).

I have a party coming up and want to make Navy Grog, but will need to do some substitutions, so appreciate your help. I have the following substitutions, but not sure about the Demerara?

~Lime Juice = I use Nelly & Joe's Famous Key West Lime Juice
~Grapefruit Juice = I will get a good name brand
~Honey = will use what I have (it is a new bottle)
~Light Puerto Rican Rum = will probably use Cruzan
~Dark Jamaican Rum = will probably use Meyers
~Demerara Rum = [what would be a good substitute?]
~Club Soda = I usually buy Schweppes

I see no real problems with everything you're using.

Nelly & Joe's is about as good as you're going to get outside of fresh limes. However, be aware that it is Key Lime juice, which I find very different from the "typical" limes one gets in the stores. I don't particularly care for Key Limes, so the taste difference is quite noticeable to me.

As to the demerara... Well, demerara is demerara. I don't think there's really anything to substitute. Oh, I'd sub El Dorado 5-year-old in place of Lemon Hart, but they're both demeraras. You might get away with a dark rum - though Myer's is fairly distinctive, so maybe Coruba (which I'd use instead of Myer's in any drink that doesn't explicitly call for Myer's). Someone in another thread suggested Pusser's, though I'd go 50/50 Pusser's with some other dark. But demerara is demerara....

Try Barcardi Select. You can do a search on TC and read the discussions about Lemon Hart vs Barcardi Select.

How did allspice syrup end up in a Navy Grog? It is totally absent from the Grog Log recipe (pg. 53). There is a BIG difference between honey and allspice. Allspice can have a very strong flavor which I sometimes find overpowers the other flavors in a drink (Like in the Nui Nui) . . .

According to Berry, both through email correspondance as well as on his own blog, the secret ingredient in TV's grog mix is essentially an allspice syrup.

I thought I would bump this thread as I made my first Navy Grog last night. Here's how I built it.

lime juice - fresh squeezed, it may have been organic from TJs
grapefruit juice - bottled by TJ, made from organic pink grapefruit
honey - I eyeballed the local honey and water when heating
light PR rum - I used white Flor de Cana 4 yr Extra Dry
dark Jamaican rum - I used Appleton's 12 year
Demerara rum - Used El Dorado 15 year
club soda - I can't remember the brand, but it wasn't Canada Dry

I didn't use a blender, but shook it with ice and strained it on fresh ice, and topped it with club soda. I added too much ice in the highball initially, so I didn't have enough room to top it with club soda, so I had to drink it down to level.

I noticed it was a strong rummy flavor and taste, with little of anything else. There was very little sweetener to balance it out, so I think I didn't use enough honey as a honey mix.

I've had the Navy Grog at Elettaria in the West Village, who uses the same Beachbum Berry recipe, and find theirs more balanced. I've also had Navy Grogs with a bit of spiciness in it, perhaps using a spiced rum, or substituted St. Elizabeth Allspice Dram for club soda, and I prefer it that way.

I was wondering -- has anyone ever tried making a Navy Grog with cola rather than club soda? I ask because I know that some make it with allspice or allspice dram, and since cola is basically sweet spiced soda, I was wondering how that might taste. Good? Or would it just be a Cuba Libre on steroids?

..i didn't bother to read this thread so shame on me if someone mentioned this already....but the navy grog at chef shangri-la includes scotch as an ingredient and it's quite tasty....i do not know in what quantity or if it is a rum substitute...

..but there you have it...make of it what you will....

I think that the allspice probably crept into the mix ,given it's origins in the Caribean, as a more easily carried substitute for honey,which would require more space to stow aboard ship.You find this sort of "discrepancy" in alot of "period correct" recipes....the ship might not have had honey available at the last port it stopped in for provisions and used the allspice instead...and vice versa.I do agree with the line about the Key Limes though if you are looking for the taste closer to the original.They would be more correct and closer to the time and place then the ubiquitous Persian Limes in the stores everywhere.
Working on my allspice syrup now....

Trader Vic's Navy Grog definitely includes some kind of allspice. I've attempted the Bum's recipe at home, but substituted allspice liqueur for the syrup. The resulting drink was far too sour. I haven't had time to whip up a batch of allspice syrup, so can't comment on how well the Bum's actual recipe tracks the navy grogs served at TV (which are excellent).

I've just mixed up some really nice Navy Grogs:
Grapefruit Juice
Lime Juice
Honey Mix
Pimento Dram (Allspice made by The Bitter Truth)
Coruba Rum
El Dorado 15 year

Very very nice.

On 2007-06-26 11:29, Scottes wrote:
If we break this down a little...
...Limes have been done, as you mentioned.
...Different club sodas should have very little effect.
...The demerara is specified.
...Grapefruit is grapefruit (is it?)

So what we have to compare is the White & Dark rums.

If we limit to PR White - or close - again this should have very little effect in this drink. There's so many other strong flavors going on that I suspect most whites would disappear.

So as a component study, we have a few dark Jamaicans to compare. If this is it, I would pick a simpler drink, maybe one without a demerara.

I'm not trying to be a spoil-sport, honestly. If you know there's a noticeable difference between 2 formulas please let me know what I'm missing.

Why is it that I always add a quarter shot of pimento dram. Somehow, I feel this is a necessary ingredient. Am I missing something or did I just make this up? Personally, I feel the pimento is necessary to capture the essence of a TV Navy Grog, with apologies of course to Phil Spector.

On 2010-10-02 14:37, telescopes wrote:

Why is it that I always add a quarter shot of pimento dram. Somehow, I feel this is a necessary ingredient. Am I missing something or did I just make this up? Personally, I feel the pimento is necessary to capture the essence of a TV Navy Grog, with apologies of course to Phil Spector.

Agreed. I made the Navy Grog recipe in Grog Log Remixed a couple of weeks ago, and hated it...until I added a little pimento.

On 2007-06-26 11:29, Scottes wrote:
If we break this down a little...
...Limes have been done, as you mentioned.
...Different club sodas should have very little effect.
...The demerara is specified.
...Grapefruit is grapefruit (is it?)

--snip--

I don't think "grapefruit is grapefruit." Just in the "supermarket/carton" stuff there is a good spectrum of flavors, especially if you consider the full gamut running from white to pink to "ruby" red grapefruits. If you want to go crazy and start pondering all the heirloom varietals and the "squeezed fresh off the tree" possibilities, you'd never emerge from the fog of research.

Just a thought.

On 2010-10-05 14:49, jokeiii wrote:

On 2007-06-26 11:29, Scottes wrote:
If we break this down a little...
...Limes have been done, as you mentioned.
...Different club sodas should have very little effect.
...The demerara is specified.
...Grapefruit is grapefruit (is it?)

--snip--

I don't think "grapefruit is grapefruit." Just in the "supermarket/carton" stuff there is a good spectrum of flavors, especially if you consider the full gamut running from white to pink to "ruby" red grapefruits. If you want to go crazy and start pondering all the heirloom varietals and the "squeezed fresh off the tree" possibilities, you'd never emerge from the fog of research.

Just a thought.

IMHO white grapefruit juice is what you want-it has the 'bite' (acidity & bitterness) that's called for. Pink is OK, if it's all you can find. The Ruby Red stuff is too sweet-it's the grapefruit for folks who don't like grapefruit.

I'd like to go into the honey aspects. I know that clover honey will have a taste much different from your typical 'honeybear" purchase. Has anyone experimented with different honey in their drinks?

IMHO white grapefruit juice is what you want-it has the 'bite' (acidity & bitterness) that's called for. Pink is OK, if it's all you can find. The Ruby Red stuff is too sweet-it's the grapefruit for folks who don't like grapefruit.

But even within the "white" grapefruit there are varietals (such as Duncan, Marsh, Paradise & Triumph, for example) that can be played with.

Ditto the honey. (For the record, my go-to cocktail honey is "orange blossom" honey.)

In fact, you could, if you were "foodie" enough, go nuts experimenting with the combinations.

On 2010-10-08 06:27, jokeiii wrote:

IMHO white grapefruit juice is what you want-it has the 'bite' (acidity & bitterness) that's called for. Pink is OK, if it's all you can find. The Ruby Red stuff is too sweet-it's the grapefruit for folks who don't like grapefruit.

But even within the "white" grapefruit there are varietals (such as Duncan, Marsh, Paradise & Triumph, for example) that can be played with.

Ditto the honey. (For the record, my go-to cocktail honey is "orange blossom" honey.)

In fact, you could, if you were "foodie" enough, go nuts experimenting with the combinations.

I am going to go on the record and speak up for the maligned red grapefruit. My own tree is a red grapefruit. I don't know the variety - but wow, is it ever good. I have two white grapefruit trees on either side of my property and they drop fruit into my lawn all of the time. So, I have something to compare my red to.

Perhaps because I am used to fresh grapefruit I experience a different taste from the red than others might get.

I will add this, Berry needs to add allspice dram to the Navy Grog recipe. It is essential.

As an aside question - what came first, the Navy Grog with spicy flavors such as pimento dram or .... the zombie?

I thought about adding pernod, some bitters to my Navy grog and then I realized, holy tiki, I'd have a zombie.

I'll see your DtB zombie, throw in a buckload of cinnamon syrup, and turn it into a jet pilot!

(it's alchemy, i tells ya)

On 2010-10-03 07:37, MrBaliHai wrote:

On 2010-10-02 14:37, telescopes wrote:

Why is it that I always add a quarter shot of pimento dram. Somehow, I feel this is a necessary ingredient. Am I missing something or did I just make this up? Personally, I feel the pimento is necessary to capture the essence of a TV Navy Grog, with apologies of course to Phil Spector.

Agreed. I made the Navy Grog recipe in Grog Log Remixed a couple of weeks ago, and hated it...until I added a little pimento.

I totally agree with this. I always add Pimento Dram to my Navy Grog's. It just doesn't taste right otherwise.

On 2011-02-11 04:05, Kon-Hemsby wrote:

On 2010-10-03 07:37, MrBaliHai wrote:

On 2010-10-02 14:37, telescopes wrote:

Why is it that I always add a quarter shot of pimento dram. Somehow, I feel this is a necessary ingredient. Am I missing something or did I just make this up? Personally, I feel the pimento is necessary to capture the essence of a TV Navy Grog, with apologies of course to Phil Spector.

Agreed. I made the Navy Grog recipe in Grog Log Remixed a couple of weeks ago, and hated it...until I added a little pimento.

I totally agree with this. I always add Pimento Dram to my Navy Grog's. It just doesn't taste right otherwise.

Then let's agree right here that all "official" recipes for Navy Grog must include Pimento Dram. It will go a long way in clarifying what it was you drank when you say "Navy Grog".

Then let's agree right here that all "official" recipes for Navy Grog must include Pimento Dram. It will go a long way in clarifying what it was you drank when you say "Navy Grog".

No, I'd say the original recipe from Don the Beachcomber apparently did not have pimento dram, and Trader Vic improved upon it by adding it.

On 2011-02-11 14:47, arriano wrote:

Then let's agree right here that all "official" recipes for Navy Grog must include Pimento Dram. It will go a long way in clarifying what it was you drank when you say "Navy Grog".

No, I'd say the original recipe from Don the Beachcomber apparently did not have pimento dram, and Trader Vic improved upon it by adding it.

This may be true - But, the Trader Vic Version of the Mai Tai is the one we now remember and not the DTB one.

I recently made a Navy Grog using the following:

1 oz Clement VSOP
1 oz 15 year El Dorado
1 oz Appleton 21

I subbed 1 oz of Agave Nectar for honey mix and added 1/4 oz of St Elizabeth Pimento.

My Navy Grog became a 100 dollar Navy Grog. Smooth. It soared to new heights.

so there seem to be two slight variations in the reported Trader Vic navy grogs:

one has honey, has club soda, and uses light PR, dark, and demerara rums;

the other uses rock candy syrup, has no soda, and uses light PR, amber/gold, and demerara rums.

each includes lime and grapefruit juices.

is there any consensus as to which of these are authentic? and, which do you prefer?

I think the two main Navy Grog recipes are the original from Don the Beachcomber and the Trader Vic's version. DtB version has the honey mix and soda, while the TV version has pimento dram and rock candy syrup. Other than that, they're pretty much the same.

I think you are right, i think some folks are adding a quarter ounce pimento dram to the DtB version and mistakenly calling it a TV navy grog. I've tried this method myself, and it is quite delicious.

My Navy Grog is an amalgamation of TV's & DTB's recipes. This is one of my very favorite 3 or 4 cocktails, Tiki or otherwise:

3/4oz Lime (white grapefruit is preferred)
3/4oz Grapefruit
1oz Honey Mix (I make a rich honey syrup using 2:1 honey:water)
1oz White PR Rum (Ron Matusalem, Cruzan and Brugal all work fine)
1oz Dark Jamaican Rum (Coruba is best, but Myers works too. Avoid Goslings)
1oz Demerara Rum (not 151)
1/4oz Pimento Dram

Mix for 5 seconds with crushed ice and serve. An ice cone garnish is a nice touch.