Who Is Better at Introducing Tiki to the Mainstream Tommy Bahama or Target?

Most people do not frequent Tiki bars - they get their Tiki from places like Tommy Bahama or Target.

Every time I go into a Tommy Bahama store (usually the Grove in LA), I am very pleased to see an assortment of traditional Tiki mugs, monkeys and smaller Tiki statutes. Once, they even thad their own Tiki shirt. However, TB always carries their own tiki mugs, with a new one each year.

Target sells a Tiki Hut cookie jar, plastic Tiki mugs, the Tiki head tissue box and liberally uses the word "Tiki" during its summer line.
A sample of the items:
http://www.target.com/gp/search/602-9440497-5316664?field-keywords=tiki&url=index%3Dtarget&ref=sr_bx_1_1&x=15&y=19

Most of us have noticed the Tiki @ Target thread.

Which does a better job of presenting Tiki?
Tommy Bahama does a suitable job of presenting Tiki in an island style setting, although it is soo subtle, that if one were to blink, it would be missed. Target does a much more brash job of getting Tiki into the marketplace, and some items, like the Tiki bar are very worthwhile. Target's Tiki is, of course, a mass-produced style for the masses.

Nevertheless, Target does a better job of projecting the Tiki love into the consciousness of Americana, and is contemporary version of the poly-pop culture where tiki was used for everything, including BBQs (in my opinion).

Actually, they should both bow down to Tiki Farm, becaue TF does it the right way.

Indeed, it would be excellent if Tiki Farm could increase their production to add their wares to Target - such would be the best of all worlds.

I'm not so sure a comparison between Target and Tommy Bahamas can be made. Its two completely different markets. Tommy Bahamas may have a more classy version of tiki but its marketed to people with money to burn. Target is for the masses. that's why their products are reasonably priced and accessible to almost everyone. But a warning , and this comes from my own experience, Target would never do something like take on a line of Tiki Farm products. What they will do is scout out the products they want to copy and have their own manufacturers produce them, slightly change the packaging and in essence rip you off.
I used to design products for a company here in Seattle and every time we went to the big trade shows in NY the Target people would always come by our booth and spy on our stuff,.... and sure enough , twice we found our products in Target. Our company is called Party Partners, we have very distinctive packaging on all of our party favors. Target came out with a line of party favors called "party parts"
and even used our exact color combination , font, and package design.
Dawn
seems like maybe we talked about this couple of yrs ago?????? not sure, I'm just having a de ja vu.

Ok...I can't keep silent on this any longer... :roll:
The question here is who is doing a WORSE job introducing Tiki into the mainstream! Tommy Bahama, in my opinion, is doing one fine job in keeping Tiki OUT of the mainstream. I do have two of their mugs, which are HULA GIRL mugs, not Tiki mugs, and they are beautiful, but that exception does not change my opinion of their outfit. They COULD choose to offer more Tiki product, but hey do not, because it is too un-P.C., and of questionable taste. They are an excellent example how the so-called "Island Lifestyle" look is a wimpy, watered down version of Tiki, with their "antique", generic palm tree prints, their muted, monochrome color Aloha shirts, and their conservative, "tasteful", dark wood aesthetic. Tommy Bahama is the Jimmy Buffet of Men's apparel. To put it simply: TOMMY BAHAMA IS NOT TIKI !

Target has the occasional Tiki pop product that is funny because it is an original idea, but a lot of their products like their garden Tikis are bad copies that show a lack of understanding of Tiki style. And I don't care about the pros like affordability, and availability in Tiki poor areas...before I put any of that stuff in my home I would rather not have any Tiki at all.

And I don't accept the fact that if something becomes mainstream it HAS to become watered down or bad style, Tiki farm is indeed an example of how to do it with an understanding of the art form and do it affordable and mainstream at the same time.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-02-15 09:38 ]

OK Big Bro I totally agree, and since you went there I will share what I actually call that bad style of watered down tiki that you are referring to with Tommy Bahamas. I call it Lahaina. its the total feel and look of Lahaina. not tiki, but a generic antiqued "island style" I get what you are saying!!!!

Although tiki is well represented in today's market by many talented carvers, mug designers and artists, primarily found on the threads of these forums, neither of these vendors (Target or Tommy Bahama) even come close to representing "tiki" or "tiki culture".

To paraphrase Big Bro:

This stuff is shit and it ain't tiki!

PTD

I have to agree with bbt on this one - that neither are doing Tiki culture a favor. and I must admit, I was surprised that you didnt include the Party Store in your list.

I just cant bring myself to say that buying mainstream, cost effective, mass-produced "tiki" items is a good thing. I certainly understand the arguement that an affordable price margin is attractive. But that mentality is what is killing our downtowns and 'mom and pop' shops all across america. The very thing we love about tiki is being compromised by developing and supporting 'rip-off' mass produced, department store products. Every time a consumer chooses to buy cheap junk because they feel they can't afford (or find) original tiki decor, is an example of the 'instant gratification' that is ruining the very strength of our artistic community. Every dollar spent at a department store is a dollar that is not offered to support an artist or collector or historian who contributes to the perserverance and continuation of authentic tiki.

Personally I would rather limit my tiki collection to items that are vintage or are original artist interpretations of 'tiki'. Department store incarnations of 'tiki' fall flat, in my opinion.

If every retailer got tiki "right", where would we be? Ah... right in the middle of mainstream. Do we want to be in the mainstream of style? The answer is no.

It is GOOD that retailers shoot too high or shoot too low. We're an exclusive club with rare knowledge that the common man can not comprehend. Ne-ne, ne-nah-nah, so there.

On 2008-02-15 09:34, bigbrotiki wrote:
They COULD choose to offer more Tiki product, but hey do not, because it is too un-P.C., and of questionable taste.

So this why we see places like Las Vegas Trader Vic's then? I'm sure they had top designers.
How many of them would think the the Aku Aku or Mai Kai as being of questionable taste. But by the time those designers grow up they have seen 5% good Tiki and 95% bad tiki. The squeekie wheel gets the grease and the garish tiki clouds the water.

If it's wrong to enjoy the sheer class and beauty of a plus-sized foam tiki-drink costume, then I don't want to be right.

The spirit of tiki should be accessible to the common man (or woman). Elitism should be reserved for Tennis Clubs and Golf Courses...

I guess that horribly tacky is an opinion and even though killer vintage is always a better bet... its not always an option.

I think that Target does a good job of bringing products that have just enough South Seas/Tiki to them that they help provide a base for tiki at home than you can then put layers on top of.

The tiki cookie jar at target is kinda goofy.. but the basic brown tribal style table lamp is a good foundation for swapping out a lampshade for tapa cloth... or affordable rattan patio furniture that you can recover..

The purely decorative items like mugs and artwork should come from the eclectic/authentic side... but the basic stuff like furniture, lamps, throw rugs etc... can really work well

Target does allright... we just need to know what to filter out.

for that matter.. I can find good products to layer into a tiki bar from Ikea.. They sell bamboo fencing.... lauhala mat placemats.... lots of natural fiber organizers etc... IT WORKS....

I try to see potential everywhere I shop.

On 2008-02-15 09:34, bigbrotiki wrote:
...before I put any of that stuff in my home I would rather not have any Tiki at all.

And I don't accept the fact that if something becomes mainstream it HAS to become watered down or bad style, Tiki farm is indeed an example of how to do it with an understanding of the art form and do it affordable and mainstream at the same time.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-02-15 09:38 ]

All very good points and I totally agree about Tiki farm doing a great job with the expectation of a couple items that recently came out. I do like my target tiki water bottle. Nothing vintage for me going to the gym.

Can we get back to talking about vintage tiki or at least modern interpretations of vintage tiki that are true to its roots? This thread is just leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Or maybe I just poured too much Pernod...

It's a very easy to make people feel uncomfortable by labeling their beliefs as snobbish or elitist, even if they are not. Tiki style, just like any art form, has certain qualities and criteria that define it. If these QUALITIES are absent, it is not Tiki style any more. Very simple. It may be Hawaiiana, Island lifestyle, or whatever, but it is something else. Why is that elitist to point out? And why would one have to feel bad about doing so?

This also has nothing to do with tropical materials you can find at Ikea, which is FINE ......but that was not what the initial question was about. Ikea, Target and MANY other importers have tropical materials that do OK in a Tiki environment, but that is far from "projecting the Tiki love into the consciousness of Americana". And I did mention that Target has the occasional useful item, but again, that does not do away with the fact that the majority of their actual Tikis are soulless.

This fear of elitism is only helping to muddle up definitions and lines that need to be drawn in order so that an art form can stay true to itself.

PS: I just thought of a good metaphor for the above statement:
Recently a relatively new member on this board happily posted his favorite drink recipes, all made with Bacardi. That did not go over so well with the Polynesian mixology fans. So, should we evaluate Bacardi's efforts to bring rum to the masses, just because it's rum and available at every supermarket? And feel elitist because we look for better brands for our cocktails, and shun Bacardi?

The appreciation of quality rums is the very ESSENCE that defines Polynesian mixology, a big part of the reason why we are into it in the first place...so why would drawing the line between them and Bacardi be a bad thing?

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-02-15 17:40 ]

I promise I was not calling anyone here elitist.... especially you Big Bro.. No one needs to feel bad for their opinion. Im just contributing mine.

I will simply answer the question.... of the thread..

Target.

[ Edited by: Monkeyman 2008-02-15 18:04 ]

Especially Victoria's Secret... wakka wakka.

HI MONKEYMAN!

Hope all is well with you, braddah.

On 2008-02-15 17:22, bigbrotiki wrote:
It's a very easy to make people feel uncomfortable by labeling their beliefs as snobbish or elitist, even if they are not. Tiki style, just like any art form, has certain qualities and criteria that define it. If these QUALITIES are absent, it is not Tiki style any more.

I think it still qualifies as Tiki, just very watered down Tiki or Tiki-lite, sort of the way a Mercedes and a Yugo are very different from each other, but are still cars.

Even horrifically done Tiki may still have a place in showing the Tiki love to the masses - hopefullly then, once they see the light they can appreciate proper Tiki Style. For that, Target may be the best.

In my opinion, Tommy Bahamas reminds me of Jimmy Buffet for some reason....I don't know what it is, but there is some weird connection stuck in my head I cannot explain...Maybe its the whole "rich" single white man in his 40s early 50s trying to live out his youth vicariously through his "Hip" tiki/cuban/cigar/margaritaville shirts? I don't think either are "detrimental" to tiki culture or polypop, as to me, it's more like "Tiki Couture" on the T.B. end of things. Target is just one level up from party city tiki...
I too think Tiki Farm embraces the whole poly pop style with open arms. Just enough of tiki correctness, just enough tiki tacky. And Oceanic Arts is king to me, but now we are talking apples and oranges, or carvings vs mugs...

hOME dEPOT!!!!

I'm with Bamboo Ben, Home Depot. On my way there today to buy some bamboo shades for my house.

Uh-oh, I have a bottle of Bacardi white next to my Demerara and Rhum Barbancourt! The horror!

As for middle aged white men reliving their youth in printed shirts, who knows? My DH has worn Aloha shirts all his life because he's Californian. He's fairly rich now because he worked hard for it. Let's look down on him! Damn you, money!

I don't get the continual lambasting of Jimmy Buffett on TC. I agree, he isn't tiki. Yes, he's popular. And he worked hard for it, it wasn't just given to him.

Better to focus on what we like about tiki...and being grateful for Sven's books and Berry's books, and all the artists we can support.

Places like Target may be a first entry to tiki for some people, who then go on to read Sven's and Berry's books, and learn and appreciate tiki. For me, it was seeing a piece on the Bum in Imbibe magazine while standing in the checkout line at a health food store.

Sometimes TC reminds me of the yoga world of which I am a part. Some yoga people rail at the fact that some people are getting yoga at gyms and only practicing physical yoga. But who knows how many people encounter yoga first at a gym, and then go on to deepen their understanding of it. There's got to be an entry point somewhere.

I think Tiki, just like any other subculture, lives wherever it is manifested. Places like the Mai Kai are its hallowed shrines. Events like the Hukilau are celebrations of its greatness, where spirits are nourished and knowledge and appreciation are shared. There is a pyramid, with the vast unwashed masses at the bottom, who decide to buy up a bunch of tiki crap at target for a luau weekend somewhere where no one knows crap about tiki. They probably drink margaritas and listen to Jimmy Buffet and have a good time.

Somewhere above that is they individual who gets the spark. Maybe they saw Tiki Bar TV after that weekend luau. They get that there is more to it than what decorated the luau. They read a book, or find references in TV shows or movies, and start to put the whole picture together.

Still further up the pyramid is the person who lays out money for shirts, carvings, one or two at a time, starts to find the music, maybe a couple of websites, including this one. Eventually, they may spring for an event nearby, Oasis, HHRH, Hukilau, London Luau, to name some of the more high-profile gatherings.

Near the top of the pyramid are the people in this discussion, for whom the respect and preservation is all-important.

The pyramid can't remain stable without any of it's layers, and for the top to grow, the bottom has to grow exponentially.

I would posit that both Target and Tommy Bahama are important, but nowhere near true to Tiki's essence.

Well said Mayor!

I don't like the overly liberal use of the word TIKI as some sort of marketing ploy, nor do I like any Island Style being passed off as Tiki. And I mean Island style as any island, pick an island, resort kinda way of a vacation Island Style.

Most of the Target stuff is cheap crap that is produced in some factory, and I haven't been in a Tommy Bahama's ever so I wont comment on their stuff.

All of it serves as a sort of lighthouse to those out there that feel the pull of the Ohana. If some thing they pick up at Target gets them to look past the Cheesecake Factory for just a moment, then it is good. If looking at some carving or shirt in Tommy Bahama's gets them to look for just a bit more of something they saw out of the corner of they eye, this it is good.

Stand as the example and guide others. Think, too, on what led you to where you are now.

Most importantly, Keep the torches burning.

On 2008-02-16 04:07, RevBambooBen wrote:
hOME dEPOT!!!!

Hey RBB, would you build me a redwood "tiki" bar please? and it needs to have a wine glass rack por favor...
:lol:

I'm definitely not an elitist and to prove it, I am posting this link to a local craigslist sale for all of you who like the mainstream offerings of tiki available out there:

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/for/576949305.html

At this price, someone here should snap this stuff pretty quick! :)

PTD

These are good points, which appear to be based on 2 schools of thought:

One on hand, what I was suggesting is explained by the Mayor's description of the pyramid for true Tiki style and the description of Irishf that "Places like Target may be a first entry to tiki for some people, who then go on to read Sven's and Berry's books, and learn and appreciate tiki."

However, BigBroTiki and Chip&Andy correctly state that products sold at Target (and various supermarkets and Big Lots) are not Tiki, but are Hawaiiana and are unable to create a portal into Tiki because they tend to be disposable luau ornaments only. In the case of TB, the Tiki is so understated that is subsumed into a generalized island theme.

On 2008-02-18 07:48, christiki295 wrote:
These are good points, which appear to be based on 2 schools of thought:

One on hand, what I was suggesting is explained by the Mayor's description of the pyramid for true Tiki style and the description of Irishf that "Places like Target may be a first entry to tiki for some people, who then go on to read Sven's and Berry's books, and learn and appreciate tiki."

However, BigBroTiki and Chip&Andy correctly state that products sold at Target (and various supermarkets and Big Lots) are not Tiki, but are Hawaiiana and are unable to create a portal into Tiki because they tend to be disposable luau ornaments only. In the case of TB, the Tiki is so understated that is subsumed into a generalized island theme.

Wait, so Hawaiiana can't create a portal to tiki style? I mean...uh...polynesian pop...polynesian pop art...polynesian islands...polynesian pop. I'm freaking confused now.

I think Tommy Bahama is fine. And anyone that bitches about Tommy Bahama "not representing tiki" should look at a map, find the word "bahama" and then figure out where in the polynesian triangle it is. You might be shocked to find that they're in the wrong ocean.

As for target...gotta love the place. You can pick up a box of Claritin and a bag of Swedish Fish at the same time as crescent wrench and a new copy of TEAM AMERICA: WORLD POLICE. So...I'd rather shop there. It has nothing to do with tiki.

I love Tommy Bahama...for that upscale tropical feel it has. I have enjoyed shopping on their site for years and appreciate their music CD compilations. I've never been to one of their stores, so haven't seen any tiki items. Target is not a place I frequent, but I have seen some kitchsy tropical stuff there before. I don't think either one of them are very tiki though.

That pyramid theory is pretty realistic. If places like Tommy Bahama or Target turn someone onto tiki then I think that is great. If that person takes it to the next level...and the next level...and eventually functions at the purist level...seems like a wonderful journey initiated by a highly commercialized vendor was a good thing. :)

On 2008-02-18 08:17, tekoteko wrote:
Wait, so Hawaiiana can't create a portal to tiki style? I mean...uh...polynesian pop...polynesian pop art...polynesian islands...polynesian pop. I'm freaking confused now.

In my perspective, TB does create a portal into Tiki for the masses because it utilizes Tiki mugs and smaller carvings as part of their overall island decor. By using Tiki, even if somewhat minimal, TB perpetuates Polynesian pop.

I think Bigbro Tiki was creating a distinction between Hawaiiana and Tiki so as to explain that Target merchandise does not satisfy certain specifications necessary for Tiki and therefore falls into the more generalized category of Hawaaiana(although his post more accurately speaks for itself).

Just burned all the 'Tommy stuff' ..... Who what's to be a rich white guy in his 40's/50's trying to revive his youths !!!!

One day I'll be just like you 'koolkids' you just wait !!!!

Sorry, kids, I ain't buying all that namby pamby "it's all good" stuff (literally AND figuratively). I am not as much as a Tiki purist as I am its chronicler and definer, and as such I already had identified the oft quoted "Jimmy Buffett-ization" as contributing to the downfall, the devolution of Tiki in the BOT. Tommy Bahama's is doing the same thing ( well actually, not intentionally. They would, IF they would be calling themselves "Tiki"...but they are not, anywhere, ...or are they?). I had to react to the fact that T.H. was mentioned here as a possible introduction into the world of Tiki, and clear up that misunderstanding:

Now how can something that would contribute to turning a defined style into something more generic and middle of the road be a positive influence? To me, it does more damage than good by using common, bland "good taste" parameters and possibly making people think that that IS Tiki. The perhaps in-born need for faux Island escapism gets pacified on the lowest level, and more people will leave it at that than ever find "true" Tiki through it.

Just like with the Polynesian cocktail, which was sweetened and de-alcoholized to become more palatable to the masses, resulting in the "watering down" of Polynesian cocktail culture. If Tiki culture does not retain its "bite" of creative outragousness, it's not Tiki anymore. Tommy Bahama's is the Grenadine in the Mai Tai of Tiki culture.

Wow, I'm glad you said that BigBro. I've held back in posting recently to avoid knee jerk reactions to the recent off focus threads that have been popping up on TC a bit more often of late. No issue with fun, but there are things that TC is about and things that it's not.

Take a look at "About Tiki Central" and it'll put it in clearer focus. http://www.tikicentral.com/about.php

Right on! well said!

Take a look at "About Tiki Central" and it'll put it in clearer focus. http://www.tikicentral.com/about.php

Man, some folks around here give me a headache. Defining what "is" and "isn't" tiki..tiki purism (whatever that is),...so much seriousness over a subject matter that, by intention, ISN'T serious seems self destructive, but that's just my own thought. How the heck can an interest in Hawaiiana NOT open a porthole into "tiki"? That's how I got into it, through a side door off Hawaiiana.

I would say:
a) Target intriduces tiki better to a middle income crowd.
b) Tommy Bahama (whose stove I've been in MANY times and only been able to afford a few small trinkets from) does a better job of introducing "tiki" to a more affluent crowd.

I mean, the stores have two different markets and do a good job marketing to their audience.

By Robert De Ropp:

"It has been stated by Thomas Szasz that what people really need and demand from life is a game worth playing.
...Seek, above all, for a game worth playing. Such is the advice of the oracle to modern man. Having found the game, play it with intensity--play as if your life and sanity depended on it. They do depend on it.

...What is a game? It is essentially a trial of strength or a trial of wits played within a matrix which is defined by rules. Rules are essential. If the rules are not observed, the game ceases to be a game at all. A meaningful game of chess would be impossible if one player insisted on treating all pawns as queens."

By Tim Leary:

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities — the political, the religious, the educational authorities — who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing — forming in our minds — their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability..."

Anyway, I don't agree with the games and rules metaphor for this sort of thing. If one player in a game of chess insisted on treating all pawns as queens, he would quickly lose, and his reputation would suffer. But this world of art and aesthetics we discuss here isn't analogous to competitive, rule-based games with winners and losers.

This struggling over definitions reminds me of the Académie Française acting as the official authority on the usages, vocabulary, and grammar of the French language. We have no such thing here, which may play some small part in our language being the most dynamic on the face of the earth. And yet this dynamism also means that no one "owns" words; the linguistic terrain is constantly shifting, sometimes in disturbing ways. The word "tiki" isn't immune to this process. Personal resistance to unwelcome shifts in what "tiki" denotes to the ocean of English speakers may be personally gratifying, but it's important to keep a proper perspective. And in terms of one's ability to stem the tide of linguistic change, the proper perspective must be one of profound humility.

Ultimately, people adapt. Where once there was one new thing called jazz, now there are, what, a hundred? "X jazz, "Y jazz," "Z jazz"... When the umbrella term expands to the point where meaning seems diluted, some people try to suppress or exclude the newer, more vulgar manifestation. But they always lose. So, accomodations are made. Qualifying words are added. Dixieland jazz; smooth jazz; classic jazz. No one gets the flag, new flags are created. Time tends to sift these things out, and that of true value persists. Certain types of "jazz" will be treasured a hundred years from now, while others will have drifted into obscurity. Likewise with "tiki."

On 2008-02-18 11:55, TikiLaLe wrote:
Just burned all the 'Tommy stuff' ..... Who what's to be a rich white guy in his 40's/50's trying to revive his youths !!!!

One day I'll be just like you 'koolkids' you just wait !!!!

Was that a sentence? And can you PLEASE explain this "koolkid" thing you've been talking about for the past year or so?

On 2008-02-18 14:37, Coco Loco wrote:
No issue with fun, but there are things that TC is about and things that it's not.

If tiki stuff isn't FUN, why do it? it's not like polynesian pop is actually a real IMPORTANT FUNDAMENTAL PART of history or anything that we're "preserving" here.

Some of the new mugs are less "tiki" than the crap that you can buy at target or tommy bahama...why don't the "tiki illuminati" (boy I hope no one goes to school for four years to get that title) take on all the artists who produce "non-tiki" work here.

I honestly could care less about this "debate" because it makes NO freaking difference to me. But...how silly is it to say that this stuff shouldn't be fun?

And...if you only allow "classic" tiki to be talked about, then it's all been said and done. Might as well close up shop.

On 2008-02-18 13:07, bigbrotiki wrote:
Now how can something that would contribute to turning a defined style into something more generic and middle of the road be a positive influence? To me, it does more damage than good by using common, bland "good taste" parameters and possibly making people think that that IS Tiki.

Maybe tiki has Evolved into something more middle of the road instead of devolving.

And Sven, I respect that you have written a book. But that was a long time ago. Quoting yourself as a reference is a no-no in the scholarly world...and honestly it looks like grasping at straws for justification. "My word is the final word. Because I said so." It's tired, man.

On 2008-02-18 19:08, Thomas wrote:
By Tim Leary:
"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities — the political, the religious, the educational authorities — who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing — forming in our minds — their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability..."

Oh yes, I can see it now: The Tommy Bahama clientele forming a school of belief that is questioning the stylistic authority of the hardcore mid-century Tikiphiles...it will be a bloody confrontation, and ultimately the true Tiki believers will perish like the long ears on Rapa Nui, punished by history for clinging so narrow-mindedly to their iconography. It'll be a heroic demise!

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2008-02-18 19:44 ]

On 2008-02-18 19:31, bigbrotiki wrote:
Oh yes, I can see it now: The Tommy Bahama clientele forming a school of belief that is questioning the stylistic authority of the hardcore mid-century Tikiphiles...it will be a bloody confrontation, and ultimately the true Tiki believers will perish like the long ears on Rapa Nui, punished by history for clinging so narrow-mindedly to their iconography. It'll be a heroic demise!

While I doubt that the Tommy Bahama clientele would care enough to form a school of belief and yaddayaddayadda...I have some thoughts...

1. That sounds kinda David Koresh-y.
2. If it were to go down that way, I think you'd have a better chance of getting a kid who lost his bicycle to remember the alamo than to remember the heroic demise of the hard core mid-century tikiphile.

Yawn.

[ Edited by: tekoteko 2008-02-18 19:42 ]

[ Edited by: tekoteko 2008-02-18 19:45 ]

But it's a self-selective group here; why should we worry about someone else not caring about it? I don't need others to care about what I care about in order to reassure myself that it's worth caring about.

"Yawn"? Evidently not, if it has spurred you to fire off four replies in under 20 minutes! Thanks for sharing your passion! I just wish yours had come before mine, rather than right after it. I worked hard on that opus, and you buried it! :)

I am sorry, but I was not exactly serious about the above reply, it was directed at Thomas' quote that seemed to suggest that I was trying to exact authority over the "Free Thinkers" on this board, which in this case would be the Tommy Bahama customers...?

On 2008-02-18 19:42, Thomas wrote:
"Yawn"? Evidently not, if it has spurred you to fire off four replies in under 20 minutes! Thanks for sharing your passion! I just wish yours had come before mine, rather than right after it. I worked hard on that opus, and you buried it! :)

The yawn was more about the big dramatic "last stand" of "hard core tikiphiles" who are going to be slaughtered by Tommy Bahama shoppers...Tommy Bahama won't put the Mai Kai out of business. Tommy Bahama has nothing to do with Tiki. But they make a few mugs a year, which is apparently BAD. Just like Jimmy Buffett...set foot in a "Margaritaville" location and you'll see lots of parrots, but definitely nothing "tiki" or claiming to be so.

What gets me hot is the continual "this IS tiki" "that's NOT tiki" and it always seems to come from a few individuals who try and make this whole thing more scholastic than it deserves to be. I'm all for being a jackass and ribbing people...I will make no bones about that. But the constant "You're wrong, because in MY book, I said something different" just comes off as lame...and I've been thinking it for a few years, I know others who say the same thing...and I finally decided to get it off my chest.

Your post was more eloquent. I suggest everyone scroll up and read it. :)

"...it will be a bloody confrontation, and ultimately the true Tiki believers will perish like the long ears on Rapa Nui..."

And those of us who survived by not gettin' involved in the fight will buy up all the True Believer's neat stuff at their estate sales..."Strangled with a distressed tropical print 100% linen scarf? That was a horrible way to die! I'm so sorry fer yer loss. Say, will yuh take 20 bucks fer this big ugly bar? The wood looks like it's been in a fire."

This is turning into a Great Bitch Fest!!!!

p.s. WoofMutt rocks!

[ Edited by: RevBambooBen 2008-02-18 20:15 ]

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Your post was more eloquent.
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Thanks Tekoteko! Then again, BigBro could declare allegiance to North Korea, and I'd still think he's cool. Because my eloquence on this message board is ... well, what's the old saying: "that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee." (Needs to be adjusted for inflation!) But Sven has produced materials on this topical area that are of immense and lasting value. He labored for years on his books while I just kind of waited, then clicked on a button to order them! It's important to imagine a youngster coming upon one of his tiki books at, say, a garage sale in 2030, and going on to reignite a new tiki renaissance. Because such a scenario is very likely to occur, and whether or not Sven came across as a bit haughty at times on an internet message board decades earlier won't matter then. Sven doesn't couch his opinions with self-effacing mush, that's for sure. But then again as far as I know he doesn't dispatch armed men to enforce his opinions on anyone either. I figure, "celebrate diversity." Sven's style isn't mine, but man has he ever produced.

You're right guys, it IS, and I am, getting TIRED. Tired of holding up the flag of good Tiki. The "Tiki is supposed to be fun and is therefore a free for all" crowd is growing, and often I seem to be the only one stemming the tide. All my friends are already making fun of me still caring so much and putting so much time in here, they have moved on.

It was just...I saw this overlooked jewel in American pop culture, and I nurtured it and worked on making it shine and become more than it ever had been, something that was not just fun but ART...and something that was not just art, but fun. Uh oh, SERIOUS fun!

But lately, less and less people care to play my game that I played so hard for so long. I really have been overdoing it here lately. Those who like my view of Tiki will find it in my books in the future, that is where I shall concentrate my efforts from now on.