Canadian liquor/ingredient advise

I was going to post about curacaos/orange liqueurs that are available in Canada on that other thread in response to Slacks Ferret's question about a local curacao. However, since most Canadian province rival the most strict of control states for distribution and pricing, I thought it was time start a thread where we can exchange liquor advise and maybe get some feedback from other Canadians or Americans on what's good, what's not, where to find it, etc. For starters, it seems all the Canucks on TC are either from BC, AB, ON, or PQ. Each of these provinces have websites for their respective liquor boards:
http://www.bcliquorstores.com
http://www.liquorconnect.com
http://www.lcbo.com
http://www.saq.com
These are great resources to see what's available to you or what's available nearby. Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, we can't get some of the recommended or must-have products in tiki bartending, like Lemon Hart 151 (WTF, Mosaiq!?) or Senior Curacao of Curacao. Even different kinds of syrups and bitters are tough to come by. So, let's use this to our advantage, eh?

On the subject of orange liqueurs, Slacks was wondering about Meaghers Grand Curacao. I don't know why, but this is the only orange (colored) curacao available in our market, aside from the brandy-based liqueurs. I've used it before, but since I travel to the US a lot, I've picked up a few things I prefer, like Dekuypers "Signature" and Senior Curacao. (Dekuyper gets a lot of flack, but I found a cheaper version and the slightly more expensive Signature version at BevMo and the Signature is really not that bad.) As expected, the Grand Curacao is slightly sweeter than Meaghers Triple Sec, but neither of them are great. Just not bad. We have very little in our market, but there are a few that I'm curious about. Here's a list of what's available. If you've tried any of these and have some feedback, please reply...
The usual suspects:
Grand Marnier (great but pricey)
Cointreau (ditto)
Citronge
Stock Gran Gala
Triple Sec

• Meaghers (serviceable, but stay away from the following)
• Bols
• Mcguinness
• Highwood
• Henkes
• Dobouchett
  The not so usual:
  Clement Creole Shrubb (not my fave in a mai tai, but a delicious liqueur!)
  Giffard Curacao-Triple Sec (supposed to be among the best, according to this article: http://ohgo.sh/archive/orange-liqueur-awards/)
  Dobbe (cognac-based)
  Angel D'or (looks like a Spanish Grand Marnier)
  Bols Red Orange (Bols Orange Curacao and Dry Orange are supposed to be pretty good, anyone tried this?)
  Metelka Shaker Curacao (don't know for sure, but this might actually be a blue)
  Mcguinness Orange and Brandy
  As a side note, the best blue curacaos available are probably Bols and Marie Brizzard, however, we can't seem to get Marie Brizzard Orange Curacao, which is apparently quite good. Not that anyone wants a blue mai tai, but I'm curious about how the MB blue compares to their orange. Anyone got anything to add?

[ Edited by: Brandomoai 2011-06-30 10:45 ]

chicks dig the blue mai tai...

Ohhh I like this thread! I'm in Ontario and it is by far thee strictest out of all the provinces. We don't have any rhum agricole, and forget about finding Lemon Hart even though it was recently distributed through corby's in Mississauga. The only dark Jamaican is Myer's but it is only available in select locations and has a decieving Planter's Punch label. LCBO employees think it's a premade mix, but rest assured, it's strictly rum. Even sadder is that the only 151 is Barcardi... but I' m hoping there will be a happy day for rum soon. On my way back from Ohana, I found a Lamb's Navy overproof which I quite enjoyed. Is anyone familiar w Lamb's? I also have the Lamb's Demerara navy rum too that I like. But I'm confused about the Navy part. I thought Pusser's was the only Navy rum...

On another note, a new store opened down the street that sells really neat vintage home bar supplies. I suggested she also sell bitters and syrups since she would be the first store in Toronto to feature these them and I gave her a huge list of American producers. She only has Fees Bros so far but that's good enough for me!! No more ordering off the interweb! I forget the name but I can find out if anyone is interested...

Great idea for a thread Brandomoai. Here's a question for ya, even though it's not technically booze, what do you use for orgeat? Best I could find is Orzata syrup at my local Italian grocery.

BTW: if you do come down later this month, when TW hits town, we can do a test comparison of Coco Lopez and Coco Colada.

Oops, I just turned this into a Canadian Tropical drink ingredients thread.

Great thread, B.M. I hope it becomes a useful resource. I'm constantly frustrated by not being able to source "staple" cocktail ingredients like orange bitters, falernum, and so on.

Well, being flat broke at the moment means I won't be buying anything anyways, but I do know we can get Lemon Hart here in Vancouver. Just the regular, tho'.
We used to have the 151, but no longer. Could probably order some through a local store, but the minimum for any special order is an entire case! (Which I almost thought about doing a while back for some Yukon Jack, also gone missing from our shelves)

For orgeat, I have some Tina Orzata.

That's the same orzata we get in Edmonton and Calgary. It's fine, although purists will say it's missing the orange flower water component. I found Torani Orgeat at a coffee shop in Canmore, but I've never seen it in Edmonton. It's a lot thinner and more translucent. The one I prefer but ration due to the fact that I can only get it in Vancouver is Giffard (so good!). At the Italian Centre in Edmonton, I think we can still get Monin Almond, which is apparently the same as what they used to label as Orgeat. I've also seen some Middle Eastern variants, but I suspect they're along the same lines as the orzata from Italy. Hey Slacks, that's what this thread is all about! We can't all hit every little ethnic grocer to see if they have Coco Lopez or falernum or passion fruit puree or whatever else we may be looking for. We've gotta' help each other out! BTW, I've had Coco Lopez in the US, and it's good stuff. But without comparing them side-by-side, I can't say how Coco Colada stands up. I've used Goya as well, and it's all basically the same. I kinda' expect the Coco Lopez to be better, though. More flavorful or something. PM if the plan works out with the details!
SDT, never seen any bitters but Angostura here, although there is a Western Canadian distributor for Fee Bros. Here's the response I got from them via e-mail:

Please contact Far-Met Importers at 604-876-2241 for assistance.

Someone in Vancouver should get in touch with these guys. They're obviously not doing their job, because I've never seen Fee Bros. products anywhere in AB or BC! Since I bought the last 2 bottles of Velvet Falernum from that East/West Indian grocer on Stony Plain, they haven't restocked. Still, I think there are other Caribbean places I haven't had time to check out, probably in the North East. It'd be nice to find a steady supply of falernum. My first and only attempt at homemade failed miserably...
Hey corrinnao, I have Lambs Navy 151. When you look at what's available here for overproof rums (Bacardi, Wray & Nephew, and Lambs Navy) I think it's probably the best substitute at hand for Lemon Hart 151. It's not as good, but it's certainly better than some of the cheap, swill overproof I've tried in the US (anyone tried Potters West Indies Overproof? Big mistake). It's at least very dark and a little spicy and smokey. And if the old legend is still true, there may be some Demerara mixed in there, along with 17 other Caribbean rums! I have a single, precious bottle of the old stock of LH151 that I will use very sparingly until a) we get some distribution of the new stock or b) it becomes available in one or more of my regular US destinations. I say go ahead and enjoy the Lambs - it makes a decent zombie!

They carry some Fee Brothers products at Wild Earth grocery on 99th Street, but not the ones I want (maraschino cherry syrup is the only one I can remember offhand - i'll make a note next time I go there).

I remembered the store - it's called BYOB on Queen St just west of Shaw (in Toronto).
They carry all of the Fees Bros products.

[ Edited by: corrinnao 2011-07-02 15:49 ]

On 2011-07-02 14:30, Sweet Daddy Tiki wrote:
They carry some Fee Brothers products at Wild Earth grocery on 99th Street, but not the ones I want (maraschino cherry syrup is the only one I can remember offhand - i'll make a note next time I go there).

Is that where the the one where IGA used to be? I'll have to check that out, although you're just down the street. If you have a chance to pop in, see if you can order other products, ie. their orange bitters or falernum syrup.

On 2011-07-02 15:48, corrinnao wrote:
I remembered the store - it's called BYOB on Queen St just west of Shaw (in Toronto).
They carry all of the Fees Bros products.
[ Edited by: corrinnao 2011-07-02 15:49 ]

That's good to know. My cousin lives not too far from there. I'll have to check this place out next time I visit him, if we still can't get Fee Bros. stuff here. Keep us updated if they bring in anything else along the lines of bitters or syrups.

Been noticing the Trader Vics silver and dark rums have shown up at the Sobey's liquor stores here. Not a big deal, really, but it's kinda cool to see it here. I've also spotted the macadamia nut liquor at several stores as well.

This seems like a good thread to de-lurk on ....

Across the road on the same block as Vancouver's Waldorf Hotel, [with its somewhat famous Tiki bar], is 'Gourmet Warehouse' who carry a range of Fee's product, Bittermens Tiki bitters, Angostura Orange, several different Orgeats and other hard to find syrups and bitters.

Also of possible interest to those of us living far from sources for exotica, there's discussion over on eGullet [in the spirits and cocktails forum] which brings together pro mixologists and enthusiasts discussing making things like Pimento Dram, using whipped cream dispensers to make infusions [5 minute Falernum, anyone?] etc.

Perhaps if there are enough of us in one province we could get together to split a case on some of the ingredients which the LCB will only do as special order? Wray and Nephew's marvelously funky white overproof springs to mind.

[ Edited by: Alefoot 2011-10-06 15:18 ]

On 2011-10-06 15:16, Alefoot wrote:

Across the road on the same block as Vancouver's Waldorf Hotel, [with its somewhat famous Tiki bar], is 'Gourmet Warehouse' who carry a range of Fee's product, Bittermens Tiki bitters, Angostura Orange, several different Orgeats and other hard to find syrups and bitters.

Damn! I kept eying that place when I stayed at the Waldorf in February - I meant to pop in but never got around to it somehow. Oh well, next time.

Arrgggh! I was just down there, too! Although, I missed my chance to see the Waldorf (it's hard when traveling with the kid)...

As per Slacks' observation, I've noticed we have several TV products on the market - TV rums is silver, gold, dark, and spiced; macadamia nut liqueur; Kona coffee liqueur; and premixed Mai Tai and Blue Hawaiian. I'd stay away from the latter, but the rums make for decent budget rums and the liqueurs are great! I did find some Fee Bros products at Wild Earth Grocery. Tiny bottles of various cordials, but nothing terribly useful. There was maraschino, lime, and 2 others I can't remember. I picked up the maraschino but haven't used it much. Anyway, not much else to report in these here parts. Will definitely hit up this Gourmet Warehouse on my next Vancouver trip!

Just visited BYOB in Toronto for the first time last evening. (I really do need to keep up to date with these threads. Sheesh.) They have quite a nice selection of vintage barware. I spotted three absinthe fountains, which I found fascinating (although priced entirely out of my reach). Most of their stuff is on the pricey side. They have some low-end tiki mugs (the type that come four to a package) priced at $12. The good news was that they did indeed have Fee Bros products as well as Bittermans and The Bitter Truth bitters. I picked up Jerry Thomas’ Own Decanter Bitters and Bittermans 'Elemakule Tiki Cocktail Bitters. I also spoke to Kristen (the owner, I think) and as it turns out, she is a tikiphile as well. She has a collection of vintage tiki mugs on a shelf behind the counter. We spoke for awhile, I showed her a picture of my home tiki bar, and she mentioned that she was also a TTS member and had been present for their first tiki night there. (I was green with envy. I'll have to speak to Oliver, the bartender, to make sure I'm included next time.) Overall, a very enjoyable experience. I'll definitely go back again.

Hey Twitch, don't know if your still in need of Lemon Hart 151 but there are 52 bottles just south of you in Bellingham. $33.95 for a 750mil. bottle.
I'd go to the wslcb web site and get a stores phone number first thou, I think they only update the stores inventory once a month.

aloha, tikicoma

Edmonton update:
The aforementioned Wild Earth Grocery on 99th St now has Fee Bros Mint, Cherry, Lemon, and Orange Bitters on the shelf. SDT, you'd better get down here and see for yourself. This is good news for local cocktailians! We'll see whether or not they keep restocking bitters...

Huh, I was just there today to buy cigarettes, condoms and handguns but didn't think to check for bitters. I'll look next time. Thanks for the tip, Brando.

Hardy har har...

Another Edmonton/Alberta update: we now have several Bitter Truth liqueurs available through the AGLC. Sherbrooke in Edmonton has all of them: EXR Elixer, Sloeberry Gin, Apricot, Violet, and Pimento Dram. At $60 and up, they're pricey! I opted for the Violet liqueur for now because it's such a rarity, but I'll probably pick up the Pimento Dram down the road. Then again, I've been fine making my own up till now and not paying $60, so maybe not. Someone else try it first and let me know if it's worth the price tag! Unfortunately, no sign of their bitters in our marketplace as of yet.

Spurned on by another thread, I thought I'd throw a shout out to the folks at Nons in Vanouver for their efforts in bringing Giffard products to Canada. In AB we have a ton of their liqueurs available, some of which I've already picked up and some I'll be looking at down the road. My only beef is that Giffard syrups only seem to be available throught their drink store at the Granville Island Market. If you're in Vancover, you should definitely stop by to see what's in stock. Their orgeat is the best I've tried, but I suspect their Passion Fruit and a few others would also be excellent. Their website has a list of what's available: http://www.nonsdrinks.com/

As it turns out, the aforementioned Gourmet Warehouse in Vancouver does carry Giffard syrups, in addition to a great selection of bitters and Sonoma Syrup Co. products. See for yourself: http://www.gourmetwarehouse.ca/Bar-Ingredients
I can't wait to check this place out! Looks like the Giffard syrups are pretty much the same price as at the Nons Drink Store on Granville Island. Why don't we have places like this in Edmonton, or at least Calgary? Market's too small, I guess.

I ordered a few bitters from gourmet warehouse several months ago. I was happy with the service but not entirely happy with their online shopping system. At that time, the website wouldn't tell you the shipping charge (and it may still be that way, I don't know) You just placed your order and got two charges on your card, one for the product and one for the shipping. It wasn't a sneak, the site told you that's how it works up front, but I don't like that sort of surprise so I emailed for a shipping cost. An annoying extra step in my opinion but better than finding after the fact that the shipping was pumped up (it wasn't and I'm not suggesting they would but there are places out there that play that game so better safe than sorry). Overall, it's nice to have a mailorder source for bitters within Canada so that one inconvenience wouldn't stop me from ordering from them again.

Edit: I just took a look at the redesigned site and the shopping cart thing has indeed been changed. It does show shipping costs at the time of order now so I retract that complaint and have no others.

[ Edited by: poutineki 2012-03-09 17:01 ]

Well, we can finally close the book on the question of where to find bitters in Alberta. Since around Christmas time, they've been showing up all over! In Edmonton, I've seen nice selections of Fee Bros bitters at the Italian Centre (at least the South Side location) and at the liquor store in West Edmonton Mall (Aligra Wine or something like that), plus Devine Wines downtown has more or less the full Bitter Truth line up. In Calgary, a place called the Cookbook Co. downtown on 11th Ave apparently has a big selection of bitters but I'm not sure what brands. It's exciting to see this explosion in availability, since up to a few months ago the only bitters to be found were Angostura. I'm stocking up while I can (you know this ain't gonna' last forever).

[ Edited by: Brandomoai 2012-03-18 09:30 ]

Oddly, Bitters have disappeared from Gourmet Warehouse's website. Not sure if this means they've stopped selling them, but it seems like odd timing since the cocktail renaissance has only really just hit Canada in the last year, especially among the public in general. It doesn't matter to me anymore, since we can get all the same bitters they had to offer in Edmonton or Calgary now: the aforementioned Cookbook Company stocks Fee's and Bittermen's, Canadian-made Twisted and Bitter Orange Bitters are all over, and at least one place (see post above) is stocking Bitter Truth. However, I'd like to see that my buddies on the coast can get what they need when they need it. I've also noticed Bitter Truth's Pimento Dram, a previously impossible find in Canada, turning up on more and more shelves. The best price I've found is at Chateau Louis in Edmonton for about $53 (incl. tax & deposit). That's $10 less than I spent on it, goddammit! I've also begun making my own bitters, so if anyone else in Alberta (all 2 of you) is interested at all in this pursuit and has any tips or questions about where to find the rarer herbs and spices involved, PM me! Oh yeah, Cookbook Co. has Fee Bros Falernum and usually 2 or 3 other syrups applicable in Tiki mixology. Falernum has always been tough to find here, but given that Fee's Bitters are showing up more and more often, I expect that's going to change. So, now we have no excuse or reason to bitch and moan other than the exorbitant cost of our over-taxed liquor. That's always a good motivation for bitching and moaning...

At least two places that were selling bitters online in Canada are suddenly not. Gourmet Warehouse removed them from the site and House Made removed the entire store section from their site. I'm wondering if it's something related to shipping because stores where you can physically walk in and buy them still seem to have them. Seems kinda strange that there would be a problem within Canada related to shipping when there are companies in the U.S. that can ship bitters to Canada so I'm not sure what's up. I emailed House Made and she said the store would be back up in a couple days but that was 3 or 4 weeks ago and still nothing. I think I'll shoot an email to Gourmet Warehouse as well.

Safeway Liquor Stores are advertising Lemon Hart at just $20 a bottle (it's normally about $25 a bottle here).

So there, Americans! We have Lemon Hart! Actually, I just ran out so that would have been a good opportunity to pick up some more. The sale's probably over by now. In my obsessive search for bitters I found a web vendor that hasn't come up in this thread: http://www.thecraftybartender.com
Looks like they're a Toronto-area-based, web-only dealer for various cocktail/beverage accessories, including by far the best selection of bitters I've seen in Canada and the usual Fee Bros syrups. If you're looking for hard-to-find bitters like Dr. Elmegirab's, Scrappy's, Bitter End, or Urban Moonshine, this will probably be the only Canadian source for them (some US websites will ship to Canada but some restrictions apply).

I just saw (according to the AB liquor control site) that we can get Lemon Hart 151 in Calgary. I will report back soon!

you have LH or LH 151 or both?

Already have LH regular...LH 151 would be a new thing.

Oh...Brandomoai already posted about this in the LH thread.

Yeah, way ahead of ya'! Have you sourced it out at all, Slacks? Looks like there's still only one place in Calgary who's ordered it (Highlander Liquor) but Liquor Connect's not always accurate. I found it in Edmonton but they've got it priced at about $45, which isn't too shocking really, just a bit more than I need to spend right now.

[ Edited by: Brandomoai 2012-05-07 04:18 ]

I'd love to see it turn up in Ontario. At $45, I'd be all over it. The LCBO charges that for the Bacardi 151.

Yep. I phoned Highlander. Out. Might be able to persuade them to order a box.

It's also $45 a bottle or so...I think I still have some old stock to use first.

I dunno... I'm thinking about picking up a bottle just so I can save my old label LH151. Although, I'm skeptical that my palate (or anyone's) is refined enough to tell the difference in a zombie or jet pilot. I know! I'll use the old stock, buy a new bottle, then pour it into the old bottle! That way, I can maintain some tiki credibility...

Alright, I have another local place that I have to give a shout out to: Silk Road Spice Merchants in Calgary: http://www.silkroadspices.ca/
Not only do they have an amazing selection of herbs and spices, they are a one-stop shop for homemade bitters enthusiasts and carry an awesome selection of essential but hard-to-find-in-Canada bitters, like Peychauds, Regans, Angostura Orange, Dr. Elmigirab's Bokers, etc. They even sell dropper and woozy bottles for bottling your own bitters! They're a bit pricier than the average health store with a bulk herb selection, but for the fact that they have almost everything you could possibly think of for homemade bitters under one roof, it's worth it. Yes, I have a bitters obsession, and this is my new favorite store.

[ Edited by: brandomoai 2012-06-05 20:41 ]

On 2012-06-05 18:17, Brandomoai wrote:
Alright, I have another local place that I have to give a shout out to: Silk Road Spice Merchants in Calgary: http://www.silkroadspices.ca/

Thanks! The Peychauds and the Regans are about 3x what they cost in the US but still come out cheaper after shipping so it's a good find. Not to mention they carry a few other things I use that I've been ordering from the US so I'll definitely be bookmarking that site.

Thanks! The Peychauds and the Regans are about 3x what they cost in the US but still come out cheaper after shipping so it's a good find. Not to mention they carry a few other things I use that I've been ordering from the US so I'll definitely be bookmarking that site.

Yeah, that's living in Canada for you! Luckily, I travel to the states 5 or 6 times a year, so I've picked up a lot of great liquors and ingredients that are either impossible to find or 2 or 3 times the price up here. However, some of those bitters brands, especially the European ones, aren't any easier to find in the US than here! If you look at Kegworks or Cocktail Kingdom, they're basically charging the same price for Dr. Elmigirab's and Bitter Truth (AKA Berg & Hauck), so I don't feel too ripped off for having paid $25 for Boker's Bitters. We do get nailed on the American brands, though! Next time, I want to try Scrappy's Cardomom or Lavender bitters...

I won't feel ripped off paying $15 for the Regans and Peychauds either. The shipping is less than half what cocktail kingdom charges so it works out fine on the cost and keeping it in Canada may help encourage continued and expanded availability this side of the border.

On another note, I may, have a couple of bottles of Lemon Hart 151 coming my way soon. I'm not going to get too excited at this point but family members of my boss are coming up for the summer (they do every year) and offered to bring it to me. We'll see...

[ Edited by: poutineki 2012-06-07 16:50 ]

So is Meagher's Grand Curacao now extinct in Alberta? I've been searching in liquor stores and it's not showing up on the liquor connect website. Thoughts on this Brandon?

Yeah, it seems to be. I've seen a few dusty bottles kicking around here and there, one store in Edmonton has it on clearance sale for a pretty good price (can't remember what) if you want me to pick up a bottle for you. It's too bad, since it's really the last orange curacao here (which brings us back to the beginning of this thread!). There are good substitutes, but most of them are expensive. Anyone ever try Bols Red Orange?

Hey, I just noticed something new on LiquorConnect! Pierre Ferrand Dry Curacao! Probably more expensive than Grand Marnier, but I bet it's good...

What? No more Curacao at "popular" prices? I guess I'll have to nurse the bottle of Meagher's I have.

What we need is a Tiki Central service which, unofficially and sort of clandestinely, ships stuff to other TC list members who are in need.

Ok, I'm sure that would not be legal. But I think you get the idea. Sometimes you know that you'd give your right arm for "that special ingredient," and it's just not available in your area. TC'ers to the rescue!

Thanks Brandon! I would be grateful if you could pick me up a bottle of the Meagher's at the clearance price. I'll pay ya right back! In the mean time, I may have to start making blue mai tais for the folks who don't care about authenticity (that's pretty much everyone who comes to my bar)...

I should be back in Cow-town in early December. I'll pick you up a bottle this week, just in case. I'm still nursing a bottle of Senor Curacao or I'd pick up one for myself, too.