Glitter Tiki Art

Sue Zola glitter art. suezola.com

Well of course glitter is art but is it really "Tiki art" based on TC's mission statement and charters ??...

**"We’re here to discuss classic Tiki, what made it great, how to celebrate it and preserve it today, and how to create and influence new Tiki that isn’t generic, watered down, or misguided."

"It’s not modern plastic, brightly-colored tiki party decorations."

"It's not about simply anything that has a tiki on it or in it."**

Isn't expressing an OPINION of whether said art is true to the spirit of good Tiki-style what an Internet DISCUSSION board is supposed to be about ??

Otherwise this just become "Arts & Crafts, Show & Tell" Central.

Right ? :)

its hilarious... the midcentury modern tiki movement is a bastardization of the religious icons of an ancient culture... making them into mugs, putting them on shirts and such... but if you paint one using a certain kind of paint? THATS GOING TOOOO FAR!!!! Seriously? Wow.

other artist here work in media that you dont see in the history books... lucite tikis, digital ink, styles that didnt exist in the mid century, but they are beloved and people pay HUNDREDS for their prints, THOUSANDS for their originals and everyone here on TC fawns over them like they are rock stars... woe be to them if they ever do anything that has some metallic paint in it... thats just over the line.

its just preposterous.

[ Edited by: Choptop 2013-07-07 21:48 ]

I'm sorry for the derailment, John-O! :wink:

I suggest it's NOT just the fact that glitter was used on a Tiki, but that it was used on Asian import tiki knockoff, and then glitter was applied in a home-crafter Bedazzler way.
It sent a bad tiki over the edge.

On 2013-07-07 20:45, Choptop wrote:
Glitter is not Art & I question any ones taste who thinks it is.....

wow... and here I was thinking that when anyone painted something, whether or not the paint contains glitter or metal flake, that it constituted "art"... whether or not one likes it is another question. Thanks so much for clearing that up for me. I'll be sure to check with you in the future as to whether or not something is "art" or not.

the pomposity exhibited in your statement is staggering. no wonder people have chose to leave this forum. Aloha spirit indeed.

[ Edited by: Choptop 2013-07-07 20:49 ]

It sounds like you also can't deal with criticism as to your "personalizing" your message in the form of an attack
instead of offering a valid counter point, also you did not address the main point of of my post.

Sorry but I don't recognize glitter as an art form or viable media for Art, maybe as Super Fun Craft Time, sure.
but until you can point out to me a great Artist using it, say like van Gogh, Gauguin, Bacon, Dali etc.
you don't have an argument with legs.

And this still is only "my" opinion and could not care less if you agree or not.
so I have no need to attack you for yours.

Sorry to have threatened your world view, yet I am amazed at how easy it is to do so?

the problem I have with it is several self appointed lords telling the rest of us what is and isnt "art". and to say that its only "art" if some past master had worked in the media or used a particular kind of paint is pretty ludicrous. Thanks, now I no longer have to worry about your self appointed status as arbiter of what is and what isnt "art".

On 2013-07-08 00:56, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

Sorry but I don't recognize glitter as an art form or viable media for Art, maybe as Super Fun Craft Time, sure.
but until you can point out to me a great Artist using it, say like van Gogh, Gauguin, Bacon, Dali etc.
you don't have an argument with legs.

Just to be the Devil's Advocate.....
i will mention ONE great artist...Contemporary...that DOES use glitter in her pieces
Camille Rose Garcia

She uses Black glitter in her backgrounds and the effect is PERFECT for the piece...

Face it Folks.... Once the Kustom Kulture movement seeped into Tiki
there has been a LOT more so-called Tiki offenses...
Tikis with Flames,Tikis in HotRods,pinstriping,etc...
This gearhead art movement appears to have absorbed Tikis into their dialogue
sometimes with disastrous results...certainly not enough great examples to validate the amount they use....
But when an art movement is based on a limited amount of icons
(ie: cars/girls/rat-Fink style monsters/Tattoo iconography)
Artists will find other subject that overlaps and fits into their genre...
in order to liven up or add to that art movement's dialogue...
Tiki happened to be one of these subjects because of the time frame....
World War 2 vets returning home from the Pacific campaign
brought their hand-carved Tiki tourist fare home to decorate their home bars
to emulate the Trader (fill in name here) restaurants and bars on the Mainland
in Southern Cal,the kids of these fellows were into surfing and cars
and of course...the downstairs ManSpace/bars their fathers built...

Glitter and Pin-striping were birthed from the whole Drag /kustom kulture scene
and it was only a matter of time before it seeped into the poly-pop movement...

While a glitter/candy-coated Tiki would be acceptable at any Car Show oriented event
it's not the kind of dialogue the Poly-pop movement needs
because it was inspired by another movement and muddies the water..

Saying all that however
One has to look at kitsch in context...
50's 60's 70's tikistyle embraced kitsch
especially in Home bars
kitsch is America
kitsch is Tiki
Almost like comparing the maikai to somebody's basement Tiki Bar

and doesn't time give that patina of validation to kitsch?
old kitsch is cool-tho it probably didn't appear so at the time...

i think the main problem is that somebody was asleep at the wheel and
crashed two Art genres together when nobody was looking...
and now the poly-pop purists scratch their heads and wonder what happened to their scene?

While a lot of us artists who delve into Tiki try to keep the poly-Pop/Tiki movement pure
there's always room for experimentation,if done with knowledge and skill...
It's an artist's job to challenge and transform
it's just a very narrow tightrope
and most of us fall off...

Disney is to blame as well
and the whole Southern California Disney and the Surf HotRod scene
had a large part in blurring the lines...

Things evolve and devolve
it's a fact.
a sad fact
but a fact nonetheless....

http://www.KENRUZIC.COM is Open to the Public!
(an ever evolving site-so visit often!)
I'm on FaceBook Too!Look me UP,folks!

[ Edited by: little lost tiki 2013-07-08 08:28 ]

On 2013-07-08 07:06, little lost tiki wrote:

LOTS OF STUFF THAT WOULD BE ANNOYING IF I LEFT IT ALL IN MY POST

Well said, LLT. Thanks for taking the time to type it.

Re: Glitter != art
Well, that certainly is still up to debate

And I thought the whole MCM Poly-pop thing was ALL about "sophisticated moderns" appropriating "primitive" iconography to exoticacize their leisureville recreational pods. Given that, no one has any leg to stand on to complain about anyone wanting to hybridize the form in any damn direction they feel appropriate.

There's a spectrum going all the way from "this was carved with stone tools by some guy in New Guinea in 1763" to the plastic party city tiki in Caribbean colors by your neighbor's pool bar. To cling to only the traditional forms is to invite stagnation.

Now, if you're carving coconut palms with shark-tooth saws, I might cede that what you're doing could be considered more genuinely "tiki".

Anyhow, Choptop, tiki, and art have as many definitions as people. Don't let the faux purists discourage you.

Thank you to linking to For the Love of God. Love that piece, or rather, the fuckery surrounding it, the artist, and what is art?

On 2013-07-08 06:01, Choptop wrote:
the problem I have with it is several self appointed lords telling the rest of us what is and isnt "art". and to say that its only "art" if some past master had worked in the media or used a particular kind of paint is pretty ludicrous. Thanks, now I no longer have to worry about your self appointed status as arbiter of what is and what isnt "art".

Choptop, I am one man with one opinion, why are you so threatened by that?
and to the point you have made it very personal, I am not talking for the world, nor Tiki Central
I am not the "Art Police" and I am just talking for myself.

Do you always go ballistic when someone does not share your point of view?
seriously, go glitter up your entire house, no one here is saying you can't
but are you complaining that we don't have the right to not like it? or voice that point of view?

If someone did a custom "Glitter" paint job on a 1957 Panhead (and many folks do) I would criticize it, so I am purist!
get over it already.

And to quote an old Biker buddy of mine:
"If you shit your pants everytime someone says something you don't like, you will go broke buying new underwear"

And Kinny, great contrasting point you made!

On 2013-07-08 12:50, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

And to quote an old Biker buddy of mine:
"If you shit your pants everytime someone says something you don't like, you will go broke buying new underwear"

HAH!

On 2013-07-08 12:50, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

I am not the "Art Police".

Ha. That's funny. Because you have never been critical on other members work before.

On 2013-07-08 15:19, swizzle wrote:

On 2013-07-08 12:50, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:

I am not the "Art Police".

Ha. That's funny. Because you have never been critical on other members work before.

Like that is a bad thing?
Seriously Swizzle, how is criticism a bad thing?
or do you really think the world would be a better place if all everyone did was pat you on the back
for everything you do? & try for once to not let your dislike of me, color the question.

And to be objective about it, most of my criticism here on TC is of a positive nature
you only seem to have a problem when I take issue with something & ignore it when I praise others.

Please defer to the conversation on another thread for more details, but:

You learn nothing from only receiving vague, positive praise. Also, a lot of people who have put a lot of time in Tiki, and the Tiki Revival, disapprove of diluting of the waters, so to speak. If anyone would like specific examples, then I'd be happy to find them. But good art is good art. Bad art, bastardization of tiki, and things are that non-sequitor are what they are: not good for Tiki.

On 2013-03-13 08:14, bigbrotiki wrote:
Look, I have said this again and again regarding my opinions about good or bad Tiki here: Everybody can take it or leave it. The intent is not to send anybody packing, but to make people aware that there is a context and quality to Tiki art that makes it unique, and not a free for all.

Where else can that be pointed out if not on this site? And what more do people have to offer than sarcasm or complaining about the "Tiki police" when that happens: Where are the intelligent and informed arguments that would make one re-consider one's philosophy? As long as I don't hear any better ideas about why the term "Tiki" should be all-inclusive of all and anything done out there, I will remind folks of what drew me to Tiki and inspired two books on the subject that drew thousands to it in return.

[ Edited by: bigbrotiki 2013-03-13 10:16 ]

I'm posting that quote on every post where someone complains about people being negative about bad Tiki from here on out. How's that for you? Are any of you going to insult Sven? Tell him that he doesn't know what he's talking about? That he should be nicer and kinder? No? .....I'll wait for your reply.

Warhol just reprinted shit. Was it good? No. Was it brilliant? Yes. That's what made it good. Putting glitter on the work of others/symbols of the dilution of an already dying culture isn't good no matter how you slice it. Sorry. Get over it.

Yes, I realize the irony of preserving a bastardization of other cultures, but that's why there are those who want to preserve the original cultures, even on here.

Would you eat shit if someone served it to you if they believed they cooked a good meal? No. You wouldn't eat shit. Stop eating shit.

[Editor's note: Joolbait, I'm not comparing your glitter Tikis to shit. Just a metaphor. They're well crafted, just misguided. Sorry you got scared off. Okole Maluna!]

[ Edited by: Hale Tiki 2013-07-08 17:26 ]

On 2013-07-08 12:50, Atomic Tiki Punk wrote:
I am one man with one opinion

That's all I'm looking for.
People who don't hang out here enough to have a feel for the board might take one's (and that's not just ATP) quick pronouncement of "that's not tiki" as some sort of hard fact rather than one person's (informed) opinion.

Poly-pop is derivative from it's very genesis. It's on like what, it's six, seventh wave now? I, for one, find it interesting to see what new interpretations people bring to the genre. Some things work, some don't.

it smells like douche in here.

That's the poi. Someone left it out after dinner, and it's hot out.

Are any of you going to insult Sven?

if he is acting like a pain in the ass? Yes. If he is driving people away from this site by declaring what people should and shouldnt like? Yes. If he has appointed himself to tell all of the rest of us what is and isnt "tiki"? Yes. He's nothing special and doesnt get to treat people poorly any more than anyone else on this site does.

Tell him that he doesn't know what he's talking about?

Yes. If he is proclaiming what is and want isnt art for everyone, then yes I will absolutely tell him he doesnt know what he's talking about. Its not up to any one person to tell another what is and isnt art. Thats the height of pomposity.

THAT is the problem here.

If everyone had stuck to the quote you posted, then there wouldnt be any problem...but thats not whats happening. You have people proclaiming themselves the arbiter of what is "tiki" and what isnt. You have people outright INSULTING others over their artwork ('that looks like a 5th graders art' and such), getting banned for it and STILL not learning a lesson. You have people proclaiming themselves arbiters of "good taste" for everyone else. You have those that think "its only art if a past master worked in the media" and other such ludicrous things. You have several people and its the SAME people over and over, berating people and causing them to leave the site...

THAT is the problem here.

[ Edited by: Choptop 2013-07-08 20:52 ]

[ Edited by: Choptop 2013-07-08 20:53 ]

I like you Choptop.

trust me... me more than anyone gets the idea of keeping an aesthetic and keeping to a certain genre... I make my living doing it... again, thats not the problem. But thats not what is going on here. More than a few people have noticed it. People have left the site because of it and not just those that get berated.

Perhaps there is a different tone and approach that can be used.

or not... if the owners of the site are happy with pissing people off and driving them away, then that must be what they want and they can let the folks that do it roam free. It will sort itself out.

enough of this discussion... I'm off to make more "art"....

i don't know art but i know what i like.... and here is a tip... I aint "wrong" about what I like.

[ Edited by: Choptop 2013-07-08 21:02 ]

Choptop & Swizzle, Are you unable to answer (or comprehend) my previous questions
instead of hurling insults and calling for my head? speaks volumes about you guys, doesn't it.

Just because I have an opinion you don't like, you have completely shit your pants
and if you two want to defend the "Glitter" & "Gene's iPad" threads & can't see them for the shit they are
you are (in my opinion) completely clueless.

Emphasis mine.

Tiki Central is a place to celebrate the classic Tiki Bars of the mid-century and the design aesthetic they established. This movement grew in popularity after World War II when America had a new fascination with the South Seas and Hawaii. Tiki Bars sought to bring an idealized tropical paradise into the concrete jungle of the Modern World. Very little of it was genuine -- born mostly out of the likes of Hollywood art directors and modern architects -- but it all seemed real to a then-naïve public’s eye. The Tiki style started in bars and restaurants but soon spilled over into all forms of popular culture, including music, food, dress, TV and movies, and other forms of architecture.

The Tiki that Tiki Central focuses on is a mid-century American invention that is Polynesia-inspired. We’re here to discuss classic Tiki, what made it great, how to celebrate it and preserve it today, and** how to create and influence new Tiki that isn’t generic, watered down, or misguided. **The definitive guide is The Book Of Tiki, and we highly recommend that everyone on Tiki Central get the book and read up.

What Tiki Central Isn't
Everyone here at Tiki Central is passionate about the Polynesian Pop movement. While the exact edges are blurry, we can give you a bit of insight into what Tiki Central is not about:

It’s not about Jimmy Buffett and Parrotheads
It’s not modern plastic, brightly-colored tiki party decorations
It’s not about the Caribbean/Key west design aesthetic
It’s not about Reggae
It’s not about African-art inspired masks/carvings/design
It’s not about Margaritas and tequila-based drinks
It's not about simply anything that has a tiki on it or in it

[ Edited by: Hale Tiki 2013-07-09 02:50 ]

Choptop & Swizzle, Are you unable to answer (or comprehend) my previous questions
instead of hurling insults and calling for my head? speaks volumes about you guys, doesn't it.

wow... the only one that has insulted anyone is you... with your "a fifth grader could do better" comments. Please feel free to quote anything that I've posted that is an insult. Here is a tip... yer not going to find it.

how to create and influence new Tiki that isn’t generic, watered down, or misguided

and here you have it. Putting paint on something is not generic... its not watered down... nor is it misguided...

no moreso than say... having a south american bird with a german accent sing about tikis... or drawing a space ship with a tiki in it... or drawing a monkey wearing a fez drinking a cocktail.... or making a tiki mug with chrome glaze on it... or making a tiki out of lucite... but none of the people that did those things got berated for doing it.

and if you two want to defend the "Glitter" & "Gene's iPad" threads & can't see them for the shit they are
you are (in my opinion) completely clueless.

really? There is the insults... "its shit"... and "you are (in my opinion) completely clueless"... VERY insulting.

with any luck this kind of post would get someone here banned.

On 2013-07-09 07:32, Choptop wrote:
how to create and influence new Tiki that isn’t generic, watered down, or misguided

and here you have it. Putting paint on something is not generic... its not watered down... nor is it misguided...

no moreso than say... having a south american bird with a german accent sing about tikis... or drawing a space ship with a tiki in it... or drawing a monkey wearing a fez drinking a cocktail.... or making a tiki mug with chrome glaze on it... or making a tiki out of lucite... but none of the people that did those things got berated for doing it.

Well, it would appear that we will have to agree to disagree on the matter, sir. Putting glitter on the work of other artists who have worked hard to create their own, unique styles, as well as items that are soul-less that seek to capitalize on the idea of Tiki without having any basis in the movement...that's the very basis of watered down and misguided. The generic tiki mask because it's a mask made by an importer whose sole purpose is to exploit and make money...watered down. And using the two masks that were designed by an artist whose work is all over TC, that's certainly misguided.

The Enchanted Tiki Room is part of Polynesian Pop. An original part of Polynesian Pop, which, in itself, is a co-opted version of a culture. That's what you might be missing. There's the preservation of the original cultures, and the preservation of Polynesian Pop. Polynesian Pop is both real an imagined. Mostly imagined, mind you. It drew from existing cultures to create a culture, a movement, of it's own.

Also, bad art is just bad art. Kinny provided a great example of a good use of glitter in art. Warhol used Diamond Dust. Again, whether or not Warhol is good art is up for debate (I say this being a Pittsburgh native and Warhol fan), but his use of "glitter" was inspired, not misguided.

But like I said, it would appear we don't see eye to eye on the matter. C'est la vie, I guess. Okole maluna!

[ Edited by: Hale Tiki 2013-07-09 07:50 ]

fair enough on the agree to disagree... after all its art and its in the eye of the beholder.

but I think perhaps you are reading tooo much into it... where has anyone said its for the "exploitation" of it... the original post wasnt about trying to sell it... it was just about "look what I made"... if you want to talk "exploitation" then we can look at someone who makes prints of a monkey wearing a fez in a tiki bar and then offers it for sale. But no one is going to say a peep about that because its from a known "artist", in fact everyone is going fawn over the print and the artist.

Oh no, not at all. I'm merely referring to the devolution of the conversation. The original artist went back, read through the site, and decided that TC wasn't quite the place to share her work. No criticism from me of her making it. The pineapple bowls would be great at VLV or somewhere that tiki crosses paths with hotrods/retro/whatever. Excellent change bowls. And if she doesn't try to sell them, as long as she likes them, awesome. But she was definitely misguided in making them and thinking TC was the place for her work. That's all. I'm sure they'd be well received at a kitsch/hotrod event.

On 2013-07-09 07:54, Choptop wrote:
... if you want to talk "exploitation" then we can look at someone who makes prints of a monkey wearing a fez in a tiki bar and then offers it for sale. But no one is going to say a peep about that because its from a known "artist", in fact everyone is going fawn over the print and the artist.

Oh that artist ?? Yes I "fawn" over that artist as well. Not so much for the monkeys and fezzes, which are not my preferred Tiki iconography, but for his overall talented and varied output of work which transcends Tiki. Also he is a great friend and supporter of Tiki events, Tiki bars, and the overall So Cal Tiki community.

Yes, "artist who is not mentioned by name", I fawn you man !!

[ Edited by: JOHN-O 2013-07-09 11:54 ]

On 2013-07-09 09:09, JOHN-O wrote:
I fawn you man !!

Hahahaha, brilliant John-O!

EDIT: We could be talking about quite a few artists, here, man. Let's be fair. And all the ones I can think of are awesome artists and folks.

[ Edited by: Hale Tiki 2013-07-09 11:30 ]

I that guy 2!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FppSGtYTnXw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY-M3bj5Ygc

[ Edited by: tikiskip 2013-07-09 12:40 ]

Choptop, your message so far:

You like to angry post in a thread that ended 4 months previously, because no one should criticize "Glitter"

You like Glitter

You like Gene's iPad finger (Clone tool, Stamp Tool, look what I made, now let's sell it) whatever it is.

You hate "Doug Horne's" Art

You hate it when anyone has an opinion different then yours!

It is OK for you to hurl insults repeatedly at others and then shit your pants
when you perceive everything said to you as an insult in return.

you like "Circle Jerks" (not talking about the band)

ATP is not the Tiki God of everything, so ban him now!

Glitter is Tiki! but not a Fez, Monkey, Mug, Tiki Bar, or any combination of those.

Again, you like Glitter

Did I miss anything?

It looks like everybody has had a chance to express their opinions and this thread started spinning in circles about three pages ago and isn't going anywhere. Enough already.

Let's leave it on Sven's comment:

On 2013-03-13 08:14, bigbrotiki wrote:
Look, I have said this again and again regarding my opinions about good or bad Tiki here: Everybody can take it or leave it. The intent is not to send anybody packing, but to make people aware that there is a context and quality to Tiki art that makes it unique, and not a free for all.

Where else can that be pointed out if not on this site? And what more do people have to offer than sarcasm or complaining about the "Tiki police" when that happens: Where are the intelligent and informed arguments that would make one re-consider one's philosophy? As long as I don't hear any better ideas about why the term "Tiki" should be all-inclusive of all and anything done out there, I will remind folks of what drew me to Tiki and inspired two books on the subject that drew thousands to it in return.

In fact, the most intelligent response came from joolbait herself: She actually took the time to read and comprehend the lengthy "Unfortunate paint job" thread, and the "What TC is about" section, and responded in a very sensitive and respectful manner - because she saw that there was thought and reason in the arguments there.

Unfortunately she concluded that this site is about the preservation of the style only, but that is because she is new to the genre and has not seen the plethora of NEW cool Tiki art that has been produced by many many inspired artists since the beginning of the revival. She would have seen that Tiki today can be about fun AND cultural context at the same time.