Velvet Falernum is available at Beverages and More (aka BevMo), or at least it was the lest time I checked. It is also available at Beverage Warehouse in Mar Vista, and I believe I also saw it at Green Jug in Woodland Hills.

I have not seen the Pimento Dram anywhere in the LA area so far. Hi Times is a bit of a haul. Perhaps I'll do it when I run out of my Berry Hill.

BTW, Camano Mermaid's version is great! I am on my second batch. I dump it in everthing.

I have no absolutely doubt that's true, but is it Pimento Dram? That looks more like a recipe for an allspice Falernum.

Glad you like the dram recipe. It ages well too. It's from a Jamaican cookbook called Skyjuice and Flying Fish by Jessica Harris. You can get it cheap on Amazon.

In my early days in Jamaica, Pimento Liqueur was everything under the sun which was made with allspice and alcohol. Some makers threw in the kitchen sink while other recipes were more Spartan. As for what the Founding Fathers of Tiki Drinks actually used in their wonderful concoctions, it was probably an exported, stripped down version which was profitable for the maker, shelf stable (to some degree), and tasty. Heck, few mainlanders new waht it was supposed to taste like. For me, the ginger/lime drams are falernum, while the allspice makes it Pimento Dram.

Suddenly I feel like Sven battling the tiki painters . . . :)

I'm sure Camano Mermaid's Pimento Dram recipe tastes terrific, and may be more authentic to Jamaica, but it isn't the Pimento Dram used historically in tiki drinks and cocktails. If you use a Pimento Dram with nutmeg, cinnamon, and lots of lime juice in, say a Nui Nui, you may have created a decent drink, but it's not a Nui Nui, as you've got way too much sugar, lime and cinnamon in there, as well as nutmeg!

Donn Beach and other booze geniuses worked hard to create balance in their drinks - that's why you only add 1/4 ounce of this or 6 drops of that. One certainly can't precisely recreate what 21 year old rum or Pimento Dram tasted like in 1937 (and in truth probably don't want to be that anal about it), but we can try to be true to their recipes. The payoff is usually worth the effort.

Koolau, please don't feel this is a battle of wits or otherwise, just some fun, freindly, discussion. You really stated my point. We don't know what was used. I have 2 different commercial offerings of Pimento Liqueur from the 1940's. These were available to Donn and Trader and might have been used in their drinks. But, I place emphasis on "might have been used". First, they are 60 proof and came to me with seals intact, but about 1/3 evaporation. Each is from a now defunct rum company. I've tasted them and each is very different than the other. Both have a lot of different spices, in addition to allspice, cinnamon, for sure. One has a peppery, almost cayenne zip to it and it is really sweet, heavily sugared. Both, seem to lean on nutmeg. Sure, I know their flavors probably changed since the 40's, oxidation, cork-tainting, etc., but the difference in the two is remarkable. When Jeff went down to Louisiana to create the "real" Zombie Punch, they had the benefit of exact recipes and vintage spirits. Today, if someone wants to recreate an exact cocktail with Pimento Liqueur in the recipe, they can use my bottles, but they will need to make 2, since these 2 taste nothing like each other. It's the same with the Berry Hill and the St. Elizabeth. Which is real? I don't know. But, they both make a great drink, with 2 different results. My point is that addition of allspice to the drink is the key component required by the Founding Fathers. Its tongue-numbing character, its hot spicy zest, and its unexpected-ness in a cocktail are what make it what it is. So many of my friends are jolted when they have their first drink with Allspice Dram. They all say the same thing, "What is that taste I'm getting...?". I agree with you that Camano's has the sugar and the lime which will alter a non-lime drink. Most of the Pimento dram cocktails are non- Tiki and use orange juice. But, take a look at Jeff Berry's recipe for Donn's "Montego Bay" from "Intoxica", it is a lime drink and the Pimento Dram is optional! From "Grog Log" the "Andient Mariner" has lime and simple syrup, too. There are countless threads in this forum about making these drinks better by adjustment. My question is have you thrown together a batch of the Camano (Sky Juice) recipe and have you tasted that it fits the bill as a pretty good Allspice ingredient. BTW, I see that you are from Hawaii and will see the parallels with Okolehao. When I lived there, the homemade versions were all different, but ti was the tie that binds. The last offering by a California based distiler wasn't even close. Even 60's and 70's commercial versions we not what Donn and Trader had behind their bars. If this new one (rumored for a decade, now) ever gets off the ground and into our Tiki mugs, will it be the real thing?

So last night I decided to experiment with the Navy Grog. Using my recipe which calls for 1/4 ounce of pimento liquor. I made one with Berry Hill and one with St. Elizabeth. The major difference between the two was the flavor of the spices was much more subdued with the St. Elizabeth. The Berry Hill was much more pronounced and more to my liking. Anybody else tried using both in a cocktail?

Jeff

On 2008-04-21 20:07, PiPhiRho wrote:
Velvet Falernum is available at Beverages and More (aka BevMo), or at least it was the lest time I checked. It is also available at Beverage Warehouse in Mar Vista, and I believe I also saw it at Green Jug in Woodland Hills.

I have not seen the Pimento Dram anywhere in the LA area so far. Hi Times is a bit of a haul. Perhaps I'll do it when I run out of my Berry Hill.

Hi-Times is well worth the drive, I made the trip out there from Long Beach (passing two BevMo's on the way!) to stock up. I did see the St. Elizabeth's on the shelf - I was already way past my self-imposed $50 limit for the evening however (I never seem to get out of there for under $75). I also picked up a bottle of John Taylor Velvet Falernum, a bottle of Herbsaint, and some creme de cacao and a bottle of blackberry brandy from the clearance shelf. Oh yeah, and I also got some bottles of Dublin Dr Pepper, the only Dr Pepper in the world still made with pure cane sugar. God, I love that store!

On 2008-05-03 09:42, gonegoannas wrote:
So last night I decided to experiment with the Navy Grog. Using my recipe which calls for 1/4 ounce of pimento liquor. I made one with Berry Hill and one with St. Elizabeth. The major difference between the two was the flavor of the spices was much more subdued with the St. Elizabeth. The Berry Hill was much more pronounced and more to my liking. Anybody else tried using both in a cocktail?

Jeff

Hi Jeff - the Berry Hill has a very strong molasses note, some love it, some don't. Out of curiosity, which rum/s do you prefer in your navy grog? Cheers, v.oosten

I used 1 ounce Lemon Hart, 1 Ounce Appleton V/X, and 1 ounce Cruzan Light. I do not think the overall sweetness of the drink was altered between the two, if so it is very subtle as I only use 1/4 of an ounce of Pimento liquor, any more and it basically overpowers the entire cocktail.

Jeff