The fight of the century: Mai-Tai vs. Suffering Bastard

Aloha people-

Here is an question for all of you out there in tikiville. What is the difference between the Mai-Tai and the Suffering Bastard? In the coveted 'Book of Tiki' there is a recipe, as you probably all know, for a Mai-Tai and it is:

1 oz aged jamaican rum
1 oz st james martinique rum
1/2 oz curacao
juice of one lime
1/4 oz orgeat syrup
1/4 oz sugar syrup

Now this is how I make it (measurements are approximate):

1oz meyers rum
1oz bacardi (light)
1/2 oz orange curacao
1/2 orgeat
dash of lime juice
garnish with cherry/pineapple on cocktail umbrella

I don't know how this measures up for all of you, but to my taste, it says Mai-Kai all over it. Now....here's the clincher. I just got a 1968 hardcover copy of 'Trader Vic's Pacific Island Cookbook' and the recipe for a Suffering Bastard is:

juice of whole lime
1 dash rock candy syrup
1 dash orgeat syrup
1 dash orange curacao
1 ounce light rum
2 ounce dark rum

Am I wrong or is this just a Mai Tai with slightly different amounts of the same stuff. And why is it a bastard. Furthermore why is it suffering?? Did it run out of the drink mixers. It's also shaken and not stirred. Anybody know any of the history behind this??

Mahalo :drink:

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2003-02-21 12:25 ]

Aloha
I checked out Beachbum Berry's Grog Log on page 79 and he gives a history of the SB and a completely different recipe.

Wasnt the name difference because Don the Beachcomber made the original "Mai Tai" and Trade Vic copied him but had to change the name. I am not positive but I am sure someone out there knows. I do 2 oz of everything and a splash of Curaco as a floater

The Suffering Bastard I make has absolutely nothing to do with a Mai-Tai (they won't even SPEAK TO EACH OTHER!). I was led to believe it was created at Shepheard's Hotel in Cairo in the 30's. Story goes that the Bartender was going on about his "Poor Suffering Bar Steward" and some drunken Brits misheard him and got all excited about the new drink he hadn't even invented yet. When he did he used...

1.5 oz Gin
.5 oz Bourbon
3 oz Ginger Ale (best to use Blenhiems)
The Juice of 1/2 Lime
Sprig of Mint for Garnish

The True Suffering Bastard stands apart from most Tiki Drinks in that it is not a Rum Drink. It should be a bit astringent and slightly bubbly.

Keep in mind that both Don and Vic used Rum in just about everything because it was cheaper than other liquors in those days. To this very day, when I order a Suffering Bastard at my favorite local Tiki Drink Supplyin' Chinese Restaurant I get a Rum Based Concoction. The only True Suffering Bastard I've ever met was in my own home (and sometimes appears in the mirror in my bathroom on the morning after).

Also... Trader Vic Bergeron invented the Mai-Tai in 1944. Anyone who say's he didn't is a dirty stinker. Don the Beachcomber was responsible for the Zombie and the Missionary's Downfall, among others, and so deserves the highest honors of all Tiki Drink creators along with Victor Bergeron, who created the greatest drink known to mankind.

Yes, Trader Vic's invented the Mai Tai, not Don the Beachcomber - it was even settled in court as such.

Here's an interesting tidbit: The Original Suffering Bastard mugs (sold in 4-packs by Trader Vic's) were actually called Mai Tai Joe.

I think we can all agree that Trader Vic invented the Mai Tai, but donhoyc made an interesting observation that the recipe for the Suffering Bastard in Vic's 1968 cookbook is actually a recipe for a Mai Tai and is nothing at all like the true Suffering Bastard that's in the Grog Log! I checked all my old Trader Vic's recipe books and there is no mention of the SB (or the Mai Tai). Perhaps before it was settled in court (which I think occured in the mid 70s) Trader Vic didn't serve the Mai Tai under that name because Don the Beachcomber claimed rights to the drink. Maybe that's why what we call Suffering Bastard mugs these days were originally sold as a Mai Tai gift set. Did Vic's serve Suffering Bastards or Mai Tais in these mugs? Old drink menus might shed light on this subject. Anyone have some they could check?

If you order a suffering bastard at a Trader Vic's today, you will get a drink made with the same mai tai mix that the mai tai is made with. The navy grog is made with the mai tai mix, too. The Vic's SB is nothing like the Suffering B at Tiki-Ti, which is made with rum but is closer to the recipe in the Grog Log.

Interesting information, thejab. I never thought about it like that. I guess Vic was trying to cover his ass before he went to court to prove the Mai-Tai was his. Can I get the 'grog log' at Barnes & Noble or somewhere like that?

:drink:

By the time the 1972 revision of "Trader Vic's Bartenders Guide" came out, both the Mai Tai and Suffering Bastard recipes were included. The Mai Tai is the same one we all know and love, but SB recipe is now only slightly different from the one that donhonyc mentioned, in that the curacao/rock candy/orgeat has been replaced by the standard "Trader Vic's Mai Tai Mix". (It is still totally different from the one in the Grog Log...)

The recipe for "Menehune Juice" is also nearly identical to the Mai Tai, the only exception being that it asks for 2 oz. Puerto Rican Rum instead of 1 oz. Martinique and 1 oz. Jamaican.

When Vic found a combo that he liked, I guess he stuck with it for as many drinks as possible!

Hey Donhonyc,

Try Amazon for a the Grog Log and Intoxica (Grog Log II). You can buy them both for a special price, although you may have to wait for Intoxica.

Once you start mixin' from the Grog Logs there's no turning back...

Cheers! :drink:

Wow, I just found the cookbook at the library yesterday and was wondering the same thing.

Thanks for all of the clarifications!

Hmmmmm...did anyone see the book "Hawai'i Tropical Rum Drinks and Cuisine By Don the Beachcomber" its written by a couple named Arnold Bitner & Phoebe Beach... the copyright is 2001 and they're telling some story on page 31 and 32 that Don tne Beachcomber invented it. so whats up with that?

Okay, this doesn't have anything to do with the Suffering Bastard, but since we are on the topic of Mai Tai's, why does every tiki bar in SF use pineapple juice and grenadine in their mai tais?
I don't get it and they taste nothing like a mai tai.

LuckyD,

I think a lot of it has to do with the lost art or mixology. Many of the main stream bars don't take the time to create the great drinks like the Mai Tai that calls for very specific ingredients like orgeat syrup, curacao and especially fresh squeezed lime juice.

Somehow it became more effecient and economical to use pineapple juice and grenadine as a cheap subsitute. Don't get me wrong, these ingredients certainly have their place in other drinks, but I personally don't think they belong anywhere near the Mai Tai.

Also, somehow I think the Mai Tai became confused with Planter's Punch. But how this started, we may never know. One thing is for sure, unless you're at Trader Vic's or one of the other great Polynesian establishments others can vouge for, you're taking your chances every time you order a Mai Tai!

That's just my take. Other theories or facts will follow I'm sure!

Regarding Lucky's question on Mai Tai's, I'll count on the folks on these boards to keep the real Mai Tai's alive and well. So I probably won't order a Mai Tai on the S.F. Crawl. I'm counting on Martin to fix a real one (Foggy Grotto), if meeting there is still an option. And I'll rely on some of you other TC'ers to come thru when I get down south, (Newport Beach specifically). As for me I'm not much of a mixologist but I will drink it if you fix it, (drinkologist). I did try to fix a Shrunken Skull and came as close to the recipe as possible, according to Grog Log 1. There's that grenadine again. Is that just sugar syrup or what? 3 different bars 'round these parts make the Mai Tai with grenadine and/or prefab Mai Tai mix with pineapple juice. I'm counting on you guys to come thru.

Stentiki..you crack me up
"Once you start mixin' from the Grog Logs there's no turning back... "
Beleive me...I want to get as far tiki underground as possible and not come back. Thanks for the tip on the books. I actually ordered Grog Log AND Intoxica aka "The Beachbum Berry Bundle" from Tiki Freaks Trading Post for the low-low price of $19.00 plus s&h. Can't wait to turn on to the other stuff. A word on Mai-Tais now: My ole lady and myself have been enjoying Mai-tais mixed under the Tiki lights here for a coupla weeks now and I'm ready to graduate to mixing Zombies, etc. Gotta tell you folks though that finding the Almond Orgeat has become somewhat of a special shopping chore...even here in the depths of Gotham where supposedly 'everything's available, anywhere, anytime'. To that I say 'HA!'. Even something as 'exotic' as Torani brand Almond Orgeat that you'd think would be available around the corner here in the Big Ole Apple requires a special trip across town to a 'special' coffee shop. On my last trip, I bought two bottles. I also have a 'special' store for Orange Curacoa. Seems that some liquor stores think that you can just use triple-sec. Example: when I went to one of the larger wine & spirit dealers here and saw they had no O. Curacao I asked one of the dudes and he told me to just use triple-sec. "Goodbye"....had to go to the other big liquor joint down the block where they actually had the stuff.

Now, as far as this whole pineapple juice/grenadine dilemma with Mai-Tais; this is just another example of what Tom Brokaw might call 'The Fleecing of America' on NBC Nightly News. Wake up cocktail drinkers of America and start doing it right! If your gonna have fun, for the love of pete...do it the way it was supposed to be done. Save the screwing up for your boss at work. And don't worry about getting fired, just invite him or her over for a couple of real Trader VIc (or Don the Beachcomber, whichever the way you look at it) Mai-Tais and watch that hourly wage double in no time. And if the rest of America wants pineapple juice let 'em have pineapple juice. I'll get my pineapple juice from a chunk of the stuff that garnishes my drink.
:drink: Mahalo!!

[ Edited by: donhonyc on 2003-02-23 23:58 ]

So what is the true recipe for a Suffering Bastard

Hey donhonyc, did you ever try making those Zombies? My wife and I went over to our friends' house for an evening of homemade Zombies and a second viewing of Mullholland Drive. Of course, the focus of the evening was on Zombies, which turned into one of those sessions of creating our own concoctions, which then turned US into Zombies. At that point, our plans to find the answers to all our questions about the movie became quite unsuccessful.

Good luck with yours.

bamzeno

Okay, Anyone? I can't seem to find it but it's too late to look all over these boards. Where in Oakland or Cisco can we go to find the special ingredients for drinks. Trader Joe's, Hi Times up here? Let me know ASAP, we are leaving for the Crawl soon, Thanks in advance.

Bamzeno-
Never got around to making the Suffering Bastard. The little shindig I had was to turn my friends on to the Mai-Tais I had been making. We did a little detour since one of my friends insisted on making 'Banana Cows'; something he said he used to have all the time at Trader Sam's when he was living in San Francisco. Those were pretty damn good too! AND we drank em outta the tiki mugs I got on one of my trips to the Mai-Kai in Ft. Lauderdale. All this whilst we had the DVD of Led Zeppelin-Song Remains the Same playing in background for audio/visual pleasure. Tiki and Zeppelin...actually works in a funny way. As the dude used to say on those old, old Alka Seltzer commercials from the early 70s....'Try it...you'll like it'

Aloha! :drink:

I feel sorry for a lot of people. I feel sorry for anyone who feels the need to watch Mullholland Drive more than once thinking they'll figure out anything. I feel even more sorry, though, for people who make a drink out of anything other than Gin, Bourbon, Ginger Ale and Lime Juice and call it a Suffering Bastard. It's not one. Berry might call it that. Trader Vic called a lot of things by names they weren't born with. Who the hell knows what Don woulda called this thing while Combing the beach? It is always a good idea (as good an idea as squeezing your own juice) to study the history of each drink and create it as correctly as possible. Otherwise you could just pour some Grain Alchohol into some Hawaiian Punch and call it a "Scorpion"!

Bounce

Trader Vic claims to have invented the Mai Tai in 1944, yet doesn't mention the Mai Tai in his 1947 book, why?

I found this quote on the American Dialect Society:

"As everyone knows, "Trader Vic" (Victor Bergeron) created the "Mai-Tai" in 1944. It says so in his 1972 book."

Apparently the earliest reference to the Mai Tai is from 1961:

From GOURMET, July 1961, pg. 44, col. 3:

Q. Can you tell me how to make mai-tai--a drink made of rum, fruit juices, and honey? HARRY E. OHLRICH WARRENSVILLE HEIGHTS, OHIO

A. Here's how they make mai-tai at one hotel bar. Other barkeeps add a cherry to the garnish or float an orchid on the drink.

Mai-Tai Royal Hawaiian

"Pour into a glass 1 jigger each of light and dark Jamaica rum. Add the juice of 1 lime and half the shell, and a dash each of orgeat syrup, rock candy syrup, and orange Curacao. Garnish the drink with a sprig of mint, a pineapple stick, and a sugar cane stick. Fill the glass with shaved ice."

Does anyone have any links, quotes from the court case between Don the Beachcomber and Trader Vic which involved the Mai Tai?

How did Trader Vic win?

Cheers!

George

Mai Tai! Trader Vic versus Don the Beachcomber!

Trader Vic's Recipe

*2 oz 17-year-old J. Wray Nephew Jamaican rum
*1/2 oz French Garnier Orgeat
*1/2 oz Holland DeKuyper Orange Curacao
*1/4 oz Rock Candy Syrup
*juice from one fresh lime

Shake with Ice, and then strain into Rocks Glass, which is filled with Crushed Ice. Garnish with the half lime, and a Mint Sprig.

Don the Beachcomber's Recipe

"Hawaii Tropical Rum Drinks & Cuisine by Don the Beachcomber" by Arnold Bitner

*1 1/2 ounces Myers's Plantation Rum
*1 ounce Cuban Rum
*3/4 ounce Fresh Lime Juice
*1 ounce Fresh Grapefruit Juice
*1/4 Falernum Syrup
*1/2 ounce Cointreau
*2 dashes Angostura bitters
*1 dash Pernod
*1 cup cracked ice

Pour all the liquids into a cocktail shaker. Fill it with ice and shake for about 30 seconds. Pour it all into a 16-ounce double old-fashioned glass. Garnish with lime slice, pineapple, and mint sprig.

The TV Mai-Tai seems like a more stream-lined drink than the convaluted DB Mai-Tai.

Where are the verifiable facts for getting to the bottom of the Mai Tai Mystery? Are there source for the time period? Cocktail books? etc?

Cheers!

George

I've made the Beachcomber Mai Tai before, and the Pernod absolutely ruined it. There was nothing pleasurable about that drink for me at all. Since I enjoy the Vic's version better, I will stick with that.

As far as the Suffering Bastard goes... I highly enjoy the Grog Log version. Any other recipe I've seen (even in my Trader Vic's books) just doesn't seem quite right as they are too similar to previously established drinks.

-T.J.

Hi Tonnikan Jinn,

How exactly were you applying the dashes of Pernod?

Alternate methods you could try would be 1) rinsing the glass out with pernod, then pouring it out. This will leave a coating on the glass, which will be more subtle. The other method is to put the pernod into a dropper bottle. I would recommend the same for Angostura Bitters.

Cheers!

George

On 2003-02-23 14:56, Luckydesigns wrote:
Okay, this doesn't have anything to do with the Suffering Bastard, but since we are on the topic of Mai Tai's, why does every tiki bar in SF use pineapple juice and grenadine in their mai tais?
I don't get it and they taste nothing like a mai tai.

i think most of the blame as to putting grenadine into a mai tai comes from the mr boston guides. the oldest printing i have is from 1976 but in it the recipe is:

1/2 teaspoon powdered sugar
2 oz rum
1 oz triple sec
tablespoon orgeat
tablespoon grenadine
1 tablespoon lime juice

i think people got used to them being made this way. maybe thats how their neighbor bob made it this way at his cocktail parties or their bartender at the local corner bar had to look it up in the cocktail book and that became the standard.

looking at this recipe you can see how one would want to add more juice the mix to make the drink less syrupy. i think that this is the reason pineapple was added. just my thoughts.

does anyone have an old copy of mr boston's to see what the mai tai recipe is?

Hey George,

I only used a couple drops of Pernod as carefully poured from a mini bottle (better than buying a whole 750mL bottle and NEVER using it) to make the drink. It really was the smallest amount that could have been used and still be able to say it's in the drink. I guess it is just safe to say that Pernod probably isn't my favorite. Angostura Bitters on the other hand... I dig it... go figure.

I will however give it another chance as this discussion has sparked my interest again. I just have to wait a week for another night off.

-T.J.

On 2006-04-13 11:33, the drunken hat wrote:
i think most of the blame as to putting grenadine into a mai tai comes from the mr boston guides. the oldest printing i have is from 1976 but in it the recipe is:

1/2 teaspoon powdered sugar
2 oz rum
1 oz triple sec
tablespoon orgeat
tablespoon grenadine
1 tablespoon lime juice

i think people got used to them being made this way. maybe thats how their neighbor bob made it this way at his cocktail parties or their bartender at the local corner bar had to look it up in the cocktail book and that became the standard.

looking at this recipe you can see how one would want to add more juice the mix to make the drink less syrupy. i think that this is the reason pineapple was added. just my thoughts.

does anyone have an old copy of mr boston's to see what the mai tai recipe is?

My 1965 Mr. Boston Guide has the same recipe.

It seems like once trader vic experienced the popularity of the Mai Tai he used the Orgeat syrup/lime juice/light rum conbination in many other drinks (scorpion, menehune, and as you have illustrated, suffering bastard). The suffering Bastard recipe at the Tiki-Ti is a RUM drink that as far as I can taste and see does not call for bourbon. So even the Tiki-Ti's recipe is not congruent with Jeff Berry's unearthed Shepard's Head recipe. It seems apparent to me that given a bartender's available ingredients, he will call a drink anything he wants to.

Case in point: Navy Grog. No two places will mix the drink using the same ingredients. Trader Vic's tastes the best in my opinion, but given that the "grog" recipe from British Navy days meant lime juice and rum, a Navy Grog could be basically anything.